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Christianity Etc › Re: Paganism And Catholicism: Sun Worship Symbols by truthislight: 8:39pm On Oct 26, 2012

Logicboy03: there are also lies, bigotry and nonsense in the bible.

guy, am interested in this,

care to explain?

Am waiting.

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 8:06pm On Oct 26, 2012

@Anyigala

This is a very simple analysis.

Now, looking at that scripture again, we can get the points out without being too emotional.

1. What was the context/subject of the discussion?

Lets see:

matthew 16:13. When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
^^^
now this is the bone of the discuss " who Jesus is" and it was base on the subject "Jesus" and who he is that every other statement falls in place and refers to.

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” He asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

^^^
this is the answer that Jesus subsequent statement Refers to.

Meaning, now that the truth has been reveal as to my identity (know that it is on this revelation) christ revealed identity, "that i will build my church"

So, christ was refering to himself and his reveal identity when he made that statement and not to peter.

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in Heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome It.

^^^
note the statement "THIS"

on this rock(the subject under consideration = christ identity) this rock, i will build my church.

The expect of the key was to peter and other elders, cause whatever they bind on earth is also bind in heaven.

Rightly, peter used that key to open the door to the gentiles christians.

If the aspect of the rock was to peter where in the scriptures did peter play the role of the rock?

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 7:32pm On Oct 26, 2012

chukwudi44: @debosky

The fact still remains that no where in the scripture is it implied that peter's authourity was not transferable.if there is any inkling to that in the scriptures kindly spill it here.

Even throughout the scripture and human history such authourities are always transfered after the death of the king or prophet why should this case be differant.Even you hypocritical protestants also observe such in your differant churces.

The people you are calling 'alleged church fathers' gave you the bible.The bible did not exist before the fourth century CE.Even the identities of the authours of all the gospels and when they were written were gotten from this 'alleged church fathers' so I would take their words over and above any protestant 'great man of God'

You protestants haveno roots,you were not thhere when it all happened that's why you keep shouting bible this ,bible that like the bible has always existed since the begining.which bible did the apostles use? Was there any approved canon extant then? Why then do some biblical authours quote outside the bible.This only goes further to show that even scripture writers did not practise sola bible that you protestants scream about.You have even gone furter to remove 7 books from the bible.

@truthislight

I have told you I do not argue with the followers of that deluded false propohet charles russel

you know when you lie i will show your for what it is, lies,
as such i dont expect you to like my person.

Am not doing what am doing here to be liked by any body but for the sake of the truth because people lives are at stake.

The Truth is that the OT is the writings of the prophet, judges, livites, and kings.

While the NT are exclusively are the writings of the apostles and history of Jesus and of the apostles.

This apostolic writings have been there since the first century ce.

They are not an RCC book.

RCC is using this deceit to keep people in there bondage, and to create a larger than life relevance by claiming to own this apostolic writings which Ofcouse is a lie since this letters written by the apostles have always been there since the time of the apostles.

Christianity Etc › Re: Triquetra by truthislight: 7:07pm On Oct 26, 2012

frosbel: Theologians use the Triquetra all over the Internet, in books and videos to explain the Trinity , not just the symbols but the tripartite nature of objects, beings and even nature itself.

Some of us on Nairaland use solid, gas and liquid, land , sea and sky or even spirit , soul and body to explain the trinity !

It is a bit worrying when we use the same symbols and explanations that Pagans use to validate a concept !

church of satan also use triangles as there symbols.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 4:02pm On Oct 26, 2012*

@ Ijawkid, Frosbel, fresky,

let us look at this two scriptures at Isaiah and see what we can learn the more from it.
"Let (though) favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10).
&

"There shall be no more thence an infant of days,(no child dying prematurely) nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." (Isaiah 65:20).

(Isaiah 26:10).
"Let (though) favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10).

I can learn from this scripture that the majesty of Yahweh will start after the 1000years of christ rule.

When christ hands over to Yahweh and all the resurrected unfaithful having been destroyed.

Then Yahweh will open his hand and bless all makind to the full.

This is what the wicked will not see.

What else can we learn?

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 2:43pm On Oct 26, 2012

chukwudi44: Were did you read that the petrine authourity to feed the flock will not be forever.I have provided my own biblical proof to back up my claim it is now left for you to prove to me that the authourity cannot be transferred.

There were eleven disciples sitted there why was this order directed to just peter? Have you ever tought about that.

This was attested by the church fathers in several writings from the first century down to the fourth century some of whom had met the apostles or come in contact with those who met the apostles.

Peter's death and his rise to the bishopric of rome was not contained in the 'canonised scriptures' but were all detailed in the works of these church fathers.

is it the same peter that apostle paul rebuked publicly for being afraid of Jews when he mixed up with uncircumcise gentiles because of circumcision?

This your RCC really knows how to lead people to miss the mark.

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 2:30pm On Oct 26, 2012

chukwudi44: Hope you know peter's name was not originally peter but simon.Jesus was the one who changed his name to peter in preparation for his future role just like God did Abram and Jacob to Abraham and Isreal respectively

the notable thing that i know was assign to peter was for him to preach to conelius a gentile, opening the way for gentile christians.

This he was directed to do in a vision, to eat things that he as a Jew will consider unclean.

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 11:12am On Oct 26, 2012

chukwudi44: @debosky

Jesus did not speak in greek but rather in aramaic.The only word for rock in aramaic is kephas.All your blabbing about the non existence of aramaic ancient texts is nonsense.

The language spoken in isreal @ Jesus's time and in which he spoke was aramaic.Even the gospel of mattew was originally written in hebrew before been translated to greek.

John 21:15-19 is explicit enough except you want to be mischievious.When jesus promised david that his kingdom was going to be forever did it mean david was going to physically sit on that throne forever? Of course not his authourity were transferred to is successors.Likewise peter his authourity has been continually transferred to his successors.

so, the flock or christianity is now a dynesty abi?

It is a kingship that is being transfered?

This your RCC lies used to KEEP people under their shackles.

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 10:59am On Oct 26, 2012

Boomark: Are you saying that Catholics do Peternity?

maybe, seems like, Since they follow traditions, they are in a better posting to say who they follow, either Jesus christ or peter.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 2:09am On Oct 26, 2012

[quote author=Mr_Anony]We are told clearly that the devil will be tormented forever. Next we are told that death and hades will be thrown into the fire.

Let us even say that death is not personified i.e. it is the concept of death that is eliminated, wouldn't this also mean that those whose names are not found in the book of life will equally be incapable of dying?[/quote]at this point the Adamic death will be no more as all those that died the Adamic death that is not a death by God had come out. John 5:28,29.

So, an empty grave/hell will be cast into the lake of fire, remove for ever.
meaning that Adamic death as we have it today will be no more.

But those that did not follow the instruction from the scroll then after the 1000yrs will be destroyed by God.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12).

According to there works withing the 1000yrs.
Call it (by whatever means) of destruction if you like second death.

but it is not an on going event but a one off permanent removal of all the entity involve in this destruction by God permanently, like death will be remove and be no more. Rev 20:4.

What ever means of enihilation/removal
/second death/fire.

The main thing here is that this destruction is cause by God and not from Adam sin, this are human that are capable of living for a thousand years.

See what Isaiah says about this :

"Let (though) favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10).
&

"There shall be no more thence an infant of days,(no child dying prematurely) nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." (Isaiah 65:20).

Note here ^^^ that a hundred years old person is refered to as a child.

So, curse by God = being destroyed by God. (second death)

how do we know?

because : "for the child shall die an hundred years old" = second death.

Second death = lake of fire is consistent with all those that have been kill or will be kill by God or rejected by God.

1. The pharisees = Gehena (fire)

2. end of this system of things = (2peter 3:10) fire.
(melting)

3. The resurrected ones = second death(fire)

fire = symbol of everlasting destruction by God.

Not that the incident keeps on going on continuously

after christ have finished his 1000yrs rulership, he will hand over a cleans human race to his father.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 1:56am On Oct 26, 2012*

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 1:26am On Oct 26, 2012

truthislight: Rev 19:11-19 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great." (Revelation 19:11-18).

^^^
this is the means of destroying the wicked in reality by christ, there is no mention of fire.

But 2peter 3:10 uses fire.

The fire there means that they will be destroyed forever, second death. = their destruction is everlasting.

If it is a literal fire then we know that literal fire cannot burn satan him being a spirit creature.

But as that revelation 19:11-18, not literal fire that will be used.

But with the knowledge of what fire does we can understand that they will no longer exist forever.

in addition to the book of Rev. 19:11-18 above, this Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 25:32-33 also prophetically stated :

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." (Jeremiah 25:32-33).

^^^

this is the means of bringing destruction to the wicked at the end of this system will.

"As manure at the surface of the earth the wicked will be"

and Rev. 19:18 said that after the death of the wicked, they bird of the heaven will be called for the lord's evening meal.

But since this set of people are killed by God their death is eternal death, no resurrection.

Christianity Etc › Re: Mystery Solved by truthislight: 10:52pm On Oct 25, 2012

inurmind: My friend I would need a book bigger than the bible to write it all in. I am not ready to get my hands weak.

please do get the book soon and train your am muscles for the task ahead.

Christianity Etc › Re: It Is A Matter Of Personal Opinion by truthislight: 9:38pm On Oct 25, 2012*

Ubenedictus: u neva cease to amaze me with ur gymnastics. The simple fact is not every congregation had pauls letter and there was none that had all his letter, paul didnt even ask that all his letters be copied and given to other people, many of his letters of people specific, if u claim u cant see that then u are simply dishonest.
U may continue ur gymnastics.

item 10 in this post shows how paul directed that congregation or early churches should exchange letters.

peter:
1. "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:16-17).
(note: his epistle)

Paul:
2. "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write." (2 Thessalonians 3:17).

(note: every epistle)

3. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15).
(note: our epistle)

4. "And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments." (2 Timothy 4:12-13).

5. "Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction." (2 Corinthians 13:10).

6. "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" (1 Corinthians 5:9).
(note: his epistle)

7. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11).
(note: I have written unto you)

8. "Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not." (Galatians 1:20).
( I write unto you,)

9. "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" (Ephesians 3:3-4).

(note: as I wrote afore in few words,)

Congregations to exchange letters :

1. "And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." (Colossians 4:16).

My Conclussion:
I am really afraid for you (Ubenedictus) that somehow christ may have died in vein in your own case because of your looking at the wrong direction due to your RCC.

This are letters that the apostles wrote but you and your RCC wish to deceived people that you on them.

You have cause many people to lose faith and turn to atheist
Lets wait on God as the one to judge you and your RCC on this.
No thanks.

Ubenedictus: You are joking show me where the bible say all the congregation had all pauls letter, can you do that The fact remain nobody who wrote was interested in puting everything that was revealed in ink, read 2 tim2:2 and u will see how they transmitted the word of God.

^^^ liar!
your word, no "one put in ink"
2Timothy 2:2 your idea of the apostles:

"And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also." (2 Timothy 2:2).

Christianity Etc › Re: Can A Born Again Christian Be Possesed By Demons? by truthislight: 7:38pm On Oct 25, 2012

Joagbaje: If you want to know if a christian can have demon living in him YES ! . But the use of the word possession connotes ownership. A christian can't be possessed by demon

with your Tithing fraud and exploit you are a good candidate for this statement by:

Callotti: When the Born-Agains are DEMONIC themselves. . .
It is a valid question.
"Can Satan Cast Out Satan"? . . that is the question!

is that ^^^ statement not biblical?

Or that satan has prevented us from remembering that it is Jesus Own words?

Christianity Etc › Re: Can A Born Again Christian Be Possesed By Demons? by truthislight: 7:37pm On Oct 25, 2012

Joagbaje: If you want to know if a christian can have demon living in him YES ! . But the use of the word possession connotes ownership. A christian can't be possessed by demon

with your Tithing fraud and exploit you are a good candidate for this statement by:

Callotti: When the Born-Agains are DEMONIC themselves. . .
It is a valid question.
"Can Satan Cast Out Satan"? . . that is the question!

is that statement not biblical?

Or that satan has prevented us from remembering that it is Jesus Own words?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 7:07pm On Oct 25, 2012

Ubenedictus: im suppose to ask u that question "you are cephas, and upon this cephas i will build my eclesia" i hope ur reasoning ability are alright lol.

keep deceiving yourself.

Christianity Etc › Re: It Is A Matter Of Personal Opinion by truthislight: 4:32pm On Oct 25, 2012

Ubenedictus: u are simply jumping, my question remains did every congregation have every of pauls letters? Give me an honest answer

is that a valid question?

Is the bible dedicated to the kind of writing the congregation had or it is for the teachings of the apostles?

I told you that paul asked that his letter to another congregation be copied and given to another and as such, the early christians hand copied the apostles writing like it was done for the OT.

What has that to do with your question?

Christianity Etc › Re: Mystery Solved by truthislight: 4:24pm On Oct 25, 2012

musKeeto: so those whose bodies were burnt beyond recognition, what would happen to them? Are they also sleeping? If they're sleeping, in what form?

the body that was burnt will rut in the dust.
God will give those resurrecting a new body without blemishes if they are to leave here on earth forever.

But for those going to heaven, they will have a spirit body.

Peace

Christianity Etc › Re: Mystery Solved by truthislight: 4:18pm On Oct 25, 2012

inurmind: Parable my ass! So you mean even though jesus started with ''there was once a man'', there never was?
So you mean your saviour was lying?
How about the transfiguration? No answer to that one yet?

How about the part in the bible which reads that you can kill the body, but not the soul?

I wonder when you people will accept the bible for what it is: a very badly written story book filled with so many inconsistencies and contradictions.

can you point out some of this incosistencies?

Christianity Etc › Re: It Is A Matter Of Personal Opinion by truthislight: 3:32pm On Oct 25, 2012

Ubenedictus: You are joking show me where the bible say all the congregation had all pauls letter, can you do that The fact remain nobody who wrote was interested in puting everything that was revealed in ink, read 2 tim2:2 and u will see how they transmitted the word of God.

i read the bible very well and only a person wu is ignorant of scriptures will tell me that paul was writting a bible wen he wrote. Besides i hate your tune, if u wish to discuss with me next time do not mention d rcc in a insultive way or i will be very interested in doing same with the ur kingdom halls and d watchtower. If u want to be respected learn to respect.

Well, if you have not red where apostle paul ask that a letter he sent to one congregation be copied and sent to another, then i cant really help you, and not on this thread.
Peace

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 3:22pm On Oct 25, 2012

frosbela: :@

wow!

I thought it was a joke!

So, we now have a feminine Frosbel?

Well, Thats cool.
Lol.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 3:18pm On Oct 25, 2012

frosbel: Ijawkid , Truthsight and friends, three questions we should ask our HELL Fire brimstone preachers are :

1. If Human beings are now in hell suffering, how come SATAN is roaming the earth free of charge ? I mean since he rebelled against GOD , he has never for one day endured the pain of fire even though he has a superior body to ours in that it is not flesh and blood. Also his SIN is greater than any sin MAN can commit but he is allowed to roam around with no punishment yet .

2. If Human beings and SATAN will be cast into the lake of fire at a future date , what bodies will the sinners be tormented in and what body will SATAN be tormented in ? Surely SATAN will endure the flames better because he is spirit , but we poor humans will burn with flesh and bones , according to Muslims as soon as the flesh is burnt up God will give the sinners a new one.

3. All these visions that people see , especially in Catholic South America which is 99% catholic , how come people witness demons tormenting people in HELL when the bible clearly says that the devil and his demons are roaming the earth to and fro.

We need answers please !

my friends.
it is a big mistake for one to think/imagine that the bible is haphazardly written that it will support any and anyhow doctrine.

Though people may abuse the scriptures by taking the information out of context, it does not take the truth away that a wrong doctrine contradicts the scriptures and when that happens, the right thing to do is to throw away that belief that does not agree with the bible GENESIS to Revelation.

Truth is, the bible explain itself.

There is a scripture somewhere in there that shade light at a rather seemingly rather hard to understand scripture, all it takes is to "keep on asking and KEEP on knocking" the answer is always there in bible.

-It took a period of about 1500yrs to complete the writhings of the bible, GENESIS to Revelation and most of its writers did not see/know each other face to face and it took an amazing 40 persons to write this book called the bible we have today.

For a book whose writing took about 1500yrs with 40 writers to be this consistent is very amazing to me indeed.

Well, one person was around to ensure that the message was consistent through out it writing period of 1500yrs, i dont know if you know who that person was?

@Frosbel
let us wait for them to answer this your fine questions up there.

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 1:56pm On Oct 25, 2012

debosky: This is false - Petros/Peter is usually translated as Ke'pha (from which we derive Cephas) in Aramaic (a small stone) while Petra can be translated as Shu'a in Aramaic.

There is more than one word used for rock in Aramaic.

Secondly, while Jesus did speak Aramaic, the oldest available texts of Matthew are in Greek, not Aramaic.

the NT is also called the christian greek scripture because it was FIRST written in greek language.

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 1:52pm On Oct 25, 2012

Reyginus: How does this relate to the quote you are responding to?I can also in the same light ask of what use is jesus christ today if not for christainity?

christianity is christ like or followers of christ and not peter.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Satan Immortal? by truthislight: 1:50pm On Oct 25, 2012

ijawkid: Many forget that immortality is a gift The almighty Gives.......

And that gift is what satan and his cohorts can never attain....

is there a difference between immortality and everlasting life?

I thing that immortality has to do with attaining certain inbuilt power that makes ones indistructible.

While everlasting life has to do with being permanently connectected to the source of life.

Since God is the giver of the power that makes one immortal, cant God be able to witdraw the power that made that one immortal?

That God says that one cannot be destroyed or immortal, does that then include that the one is indistructible by God also?

I dont even think that satan is immortal, since christ is the first of its kind.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 12:33pm On Oct 25, 2012

Rev 19:11-19 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great." (Revelation 19:11-18).

^^^
this is the means of destroying the wicked in reality by christ, there is no mention of fire.

But 2peter 3:10 uses fire.

The fire there means that they will be destroyed forever, second death. = their destruction is everlasting.

If it is a literal fire then we know that literal fire cannot burn satan him being a spirit creature.

But as that revelation 19:11-18, not literal fire that will be used.

But with the knowledge of what fire does we can understand that they will no longer exist forever.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 11:12am On Oct 25, 2012*

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Interesting, I think you need to brush up your english literature skills (or better yet, look up the meaning of personification in a dictionary)
The moment you start giving an abstract concept personal attributes like it being an enemy who is defeated and thrown into a fire, you have personified it. (For reference compare this to how Love is personified in 1 Corinthians 13).

It is very simple, in Revelations 21:4 God is talking to those who have been redeemed and telling them that they will not die anymore neither will anyone weep or cry anymore or be in pain because they have passed on to eternal life.

Interestingly, we are not told anywhere that "Sorrow", "Tears" and "Pain" have been cast into any fire somewhere. You just managed to single out "death" to force into your theology.

Again, you are also personifying death by calling it an enemy to be destroyed.

You know what, I agree with you when we talk about destruction. All I keep pointing at is the nature of this destruction we are talking about. Is it a disappearance or is it eternal torment or as Ihedinobi put it eternal chaos.

We are told clearly that the devil will be tormented forever. Next we are told that death and hades will be thrown into the fire.

Let us even say that death is not personified i.e. it is the concept of death that is eliminated, wouldn't this also mean that those whose names are not found in the book of life will equally be incapable of dying?

Why are you so hellbent on forcing the same fate for an abstract concept upon distinct beings? Your reading lacks consistency because if the devil which is a distinct being suffers eternally, it also follows that the sinner who is equally a distinct being should have the same fate.

I know hell is a very terrible thing and I wish it didn't exist but then what I won't do is to force the scripture to say something else just because I am uncomfortable with hell.

By the way, try not to read me wrong. I have never said that the occupants of hell would "burn" in the literal sense of the word. What I have insisted is that the suffering (in whatever form it will take) is for sure and it is forever. That is the nature of the second death.[/quote]tears and death and pain all join to be no more.

That is why death is thrown into the lake of fire.

of all what you said i found the one below as being very worthy of attention.
[quote author=Mr_Anony]We are told clearly that the devil will be tormented forever. Next we are told that death and hades will be thrown into the fire.

Let us even say that death is not personified i.e. it is the concept of death that is eliminated, wouldn't this also mean that those whose names are not found in the book of life will equally be incapable of dying?[/quote]at this point the Adamic death will be no more as all those that died the Adamic death that is not a death by God had come out. John 5:28,29.

So, an empty grave/hell will be cast into the lake of fire, remove for ever.
meaning that Adamic death as we have it today will be no more.

But those that did not follow the instruction from the scroll then after the 1000yrs will be destroyed by God.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12).

According to there works withing the 1000yrs.
Call it (by whatever means) of destruction if you like second death.

but it is not an on going event but a one off permanent removal of all the entity involve in this destruction by God permanently, like death will be remove and be no more. Rev 20:4.

What ever means of enihilation/removal
/second death/fire.

The main thing here is that this destruction is cause by God and not from Adam sin, this are human that are capable of living for a thousand years.

God is a consuming fire. He will simply consume them out of existance for all eternity. Like burning a paper instead of tearing it. When you consume something, that thing ceases to exist. Second death.

See what Isaiah says about this :

"Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10).
&

"There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." (Isaiah 65:20).

Second death = lake of fire is consistent with all those that have been kill or will be kill by God or rejected by God.

1. The pharisees = Gehena (fire)

2. end of this system of things = (2peter 3:10) fire.
(melting)

3. The resurrected ones = second death(fire)

fire = symbol of everlasting destruction by God.

Not that the incident keeps on going on continuously.
*edited*Je

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 10:06am On Oct 25, 2012

[quote author=Mr_Anony]The second part which is very funny and really doesn't help your case is how you explain Jer 7:31.

And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. KJV[/quote]my friend, this is plain dishonesty from you.

What was the purpose of the high place they build?

That bible portion above clearly puts it this way:

"to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire"

why then are you twisting that scripture?

It was that burning of their sons and their daughters in the fire that God said it has "never entered" his heart, but you had to twist it to suite your fire fire doctrine.

There were different form of human sacrifice but God did not react in the same way like he did here.

The next time in that same Jeremiah that the warning of human sacrifice in fire came up God again made similar statement that it has never entered his heart to burn people in fire.

*sigh*

Christianity Etc › Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 9:32am On Oct 25, 2012

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lovely!
Notice how they keep trying to shy away from the suffering of the wicked.
The question I keep asking which they keep evading: Even if it is "just a parable", why would Jesus use false conditions to illustrate a truth?
........And not only do it once but over and over again He points at an afterlife suffering for the wicked.[/quote]the question you should be asking is why will God be punishing someone for the sin they have paid the wages when they died?

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).

Yes, the wages of sin is death, and he that has died has been "forgiven/acquitted/freed from his sins that he committed befor he died the bible says:

this applied to baptism, when a sinner repent, and get baptised his former sins are forgiven.

"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:7).
^^^
this is divine justice. It is the reason christ came to the world to undo the works of sins.

Those that have died and receives the benefit of God's resurrection, on coming up at the resurrection their former sins will have been forgiven, there coming up from resurrection they are on a clean slate.

those that have never heard about christ are going to be taught from the scrolls:

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12).

the acceptance or rejection of the things written on the scrolls by the dead that are resurrected determines if they will be destroyed for the second time(second death) or they will be given eternal life.

This is a clear bible teaching that the wages of sin is death and those that have died have been acquitted from sin.

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." (1 John 4: cool

Christianity Etc › Re: Paganism And Catholicism: Sun Worship Symbols by truthislight: 8:44am On Oct 25, 2012

Logicboy03: Copy and paste......

I wonder if the catholics go to worship the door handles, the buildings and the clothes the Pope/bishops wear......

what are the symbol of demons doing in a house that is suppose to be the house of God?

Will such have been allowed in God's temple in Jerusalem?

Dont you know that God use to reject the nation of Israel whenever they turn to idolatry?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Peter Is NOT The Foundation Of The Church by truthislight: 12:03am On Oct 25, 2012

frosbel: But the bible debunks this :

"For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." - Ephesians 5:23

"And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church"- Ephesians 1:22

Is the POPE not an impostor ?

Reyginus: Is it not clear that the verse is symbolic?

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