₦airaland Forum

eddy1977: to add to this list, I would also say that the Jehovah,s witnesses bible is a pile of manure

SimonAndal: That's why I read none at all. The only bible-like book I've read is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

Nimshi: .

Fresky : I have one question for you:

In what year did the JWs recognise 607 BCE as the date for the destruction of Jerusalem?

If you don't know, go and find out and return.

Don't copy/paste anything yet, just answer that question with a date, and the reference from Watchtower literature.

That ought to put a break on the repetitive stuff you've been posting.

So:

In what year did the JWs recognise 607 BCE as the date for the destruction of Jerusalem?

.

MyJoe: Lol @ child abuse, child, abuse child abuse, how strange.

@Nimshi
I am aware of most of these things. I was framing my statements to draw you out on that issue because when I think of the JW, dangerous is not something that comes to my mind. I am not defending anyone and I think it's better exagerations and incidental inacuracies and generalisations are avoided in discussions like this because it pushes the deluded further in his delusion. It "vindicates" his position, having heard countless times that he will be "persecuted".

I think you misunderstood the Africa ra.pe thing I mentioned. I wasn't "sanitising" anything. I agree about the freedom to think and choose matter. I have written considerably on it over recent weeks in frosbel's watchtower thread and won't rehash it here.

But at the end of the day, people make their choices. There are people who believe if they don't hand over 10% of their salary every month, bad things will happen to them. Who do we blame - them or their deceivers? Like you, I have argued on this forum that it's their leaders. But I recognise that the other side has a good argument. Philosophically, it is a tough question. What we both agree on, though, is that the deluded should be helped, if possible. But you must keep it whiter than white to avoid firming up the position of their captors.

The child abuse matter is fairly well-known in the West, particularly the US, where it has been reported by the major networks, with people like Barbara Anderson - thanks to her for blowing it open - interviewed in some cases. Three or four years back it was even mentioned in district conventions in the US about the payout to victims - it was already in the media, you see. No, Nigerian JWs know nothing about it since it has not been in the local media. But, still, if something is on the international media and the internet... Now you have brought it here, just look at the reaction you are getting: "it's in your head". That's the individual issue I talked about earlier.

I will report my findings on the investment matter when next I come on, likely on Monday.

Nimshi: Since you cannot see any false JW teachings from what I've written, I am unable to further assist you.
Recall I did hint at being you (only as a poster here) being constrained in ability to understand stuff . . . but:

1) you could learn a bit from the ongoing discussion witn MyJoe on this thread (MyJoe may well be a JW . . . )
2) it appears you have some difficulty in understanding structured arguments.

Now, youtube is your friend, so I will be recommending videos for you. Here's one Witness talking; 30 years a Jehovah's Witness:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNyg68Gg2MI

Martian: This person sums up what I would like to tell christians/muslims but I'm always too busy laughing or saying it in a mocking fashion.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2012/04/05/prayer-hallucination-and-date-night-with-god/
one lazy dog, on April 6th, 2012 at 5:18 am Said:
[b]I don’t think it’s too surprising to hear that people see or hear their culture's specific god or gods. As an artifical construct that is specific to humankind throughout history, spirit worlds of all sorts have been conjured up for many reasons and rationales. To “know” that god speaks to one as an individual is no doubt emotionally comforting, but what about the many others across all societies and history who have similarly known that their god or gods speak also to them. Are we saying that they are wrong and delusional, but we are right?

A belief in some sort of spiritual life is all well and good, but one should not be upset that such a thing does not stand up to an objective and scientific analysis. There is a reason why miracles of the church have disappeared with the appearance of the age of reason. I would advise the devout to be content with their inner spirituality, but be cautious in demanding that others follow your own beliefs. What each of us “know” is very much our own.[/b]

*edited

Nimshi: You asked a direct question, I'll answer it thus:

--- (1) I have some limited data on what happens to Christians who become JWs and then discover that the doctrinal purity that attracted them to the JWs is a sham. The final effect - and this conclusion is almost complete - is that they end up losing all faith in God or religion. This is fascinating. There's an ongoing study to figure out why. It is my inclination that research will confirm what is already known: the JW religion casts all other Christians as members of 'Christendom' (this is disingenous and dishonest), and since the JW religion goes to great lenghts to discredit Christendom, most almost all JWs and JW associates find Christendom detestable. Now, when converts/recruits are opened to the true history of the JWs, they see the JWs for what they are, and then they lose all hope, finding no refuge anywhere and having lost all hope in God. This effect can be devastating to individuals whose lives are dependent on believing in a supreme being, and particularly, the God of the bible.

--- (2) Do you know of the JW doctrinal practice of disfellowshipping people? This is perhaps the singular/most destructive doctrine. If you respond that you know, then I will go into details why this makes the JW religion a dangerous one; I will furhter show how this policy destroys lives, distrups families and hasdicaps people who, having being JWs, decide to want to lead a different kind of life.

--- (3) I would classify the JW religion as a high control sect (this is not my invention; many researchers have arrived at this correct conclusion long ago); I do not say this lightly and for effect; there's credible evidence thatthis is the case; this makes the group dangerous. There are many doctrines that characterise this group, including the surrender of natural/fundamental rights at baptism, the draconian no-blood doctrine, the (presently) immutable position that what Brooklyn orders as 'doctrine' is always right: dissent is absolutely unallowed, as is independent consideration of scriptural points ...

There's more . . .

Now, a note: I don't claim that individual rank and file JWs (those whom you're wont to see on the streets) are necessarily dangerous as individuals; no. It is only when acting as agents of the Jehovah's Witness organisation, preaching as they have been indoctrinated, that they assume the mantle of danger. If you are willing to discuss, I could expound on this.

Nimshi: Here is the bad news:

--- Jehovah's Witnesses teach that at Armageddon, everyone living on earth will be killed except Jehovah's witnesses.
--- World population: ~7 billion; JW population ~ 7 million
--- Do you see how it is that you bring very bad news?
--- 99.999% of people living on earht will be killed according to Jehovah's witnesses. Do you see that that's bad news?

Regarding hell fire:
--- Yes, many Christian groups preach this, but JWs are not the only ones who don't preach it
--- For instance:
* Seventh-day Adventists do not teach hell fire
* Christadelphians, and do not teach hell fire
* Other Advent Churches do not teach hell fire

In fact, the founder of the JW religion, CT Russell borrowed this no-hell fire position from the Adventists.

There is superb scholarly work by some Protestant and Anglican writers who have proposed similar doctrines.

Regarding heaven: of course, you JWs too want to go to heaven, only that you say 144,000 will get to heaven.
You also teach that of those remaining alive today of the that 144,000, 100% of them are Jehovah's Witnesses, and you know them.
Amongst you, you're secretly 'envious' of those you think will go to heaven, and only them are allowed to take the Lord's evening meal.

Your religion is full of bogus teachings and ridiculous ideas.
Your FDS & GB are nothing special.
Your most important teaching were borrowed from other religions.
Your religion habours paedophiles.
You were members of the UN depart. of public information before being exposed.
You're not as separate from the world as you think; and you only succeed to recruit the misinformed into your religion.

Any more?

Ubenedictus: please let me inform u about the purpose, your friend max accused d catholic church of celebrating the last supper often instead of yearly like d jw, my post simply shows that d often stand is supported by scriptures and no d yearly stand. The 'anamesis' of d lords supper may not be important in ur church, but in my church it is very important, and i dont like it when accused wrongly.
How are u doing truthislight? Glad to hear from u.
Peace

Ubenedictus: right i get that

well one of d nationalistic ideas if peace, freedom and freedom to pursue ur happiness, well hypothetically speaking, if niger invade nigeria as germany did poland in ww2 and all our borders are closed, what happens to d jw who cant afford a plane ticket? He is suppose to sit in his palour when some soldiers are raping his wife and daughters and shooting his sons and they certainly will come for him next? He shouldnt use a gun if he has one becos that would mean fighting a war right? Something most jw forget is that those nationalist ideas affect us in one way or another.
Peace

MyJoe: I wasn't doing you any favours or defending your religion - I don't care about the religion, only about the truth as supported by verifiable facts. I was just pointing out what I honestly believe is an error. If the person I quoted his post comes back and proves me wrong, I will accept and update my knowledge. See the difference between iron-cast dogma and genuine enquiry?

comnsense: Oh I mentioned Krausse simply as an example. The zero point energy theory is embedded deeply in quantum physics and Krausse is building on this. You might want to know that knowledge in scientific is never really confined to one individual. Scientists usually work and experiment in conjunction with other scientists.

Ubenedictus: no no no no, it says ''day by day, attending d temple 2gether and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food...' if d 'breaking bread' was normal food why did d next phase talk about 'partaking of food'? That would be a silly thing to do? Repeating d same thing in one sentence like saying 'so therefore' hey can u remind me what d english man calls such a silly mistake?
I just to back my point 1cor11:23-26, verse 26 says and i quote "for as often as u eat this bead and drink this cup u proclaim d lord's death until he comes" i hope u noticed just as i did that d bible didnt say one a year eat d bread and drink d cup, no the bible says as often as d church does it d church is proclaiming d lord's death. Even if it is done every minute of d day, it proclaims d lord death. That is what my bible say, my bible says 'as often' not yearly.
Peace

MyJoe: Most of the things Nimishi wrote is as written. However,


I’d be loth to believe this, since (1) I have been this close to countless JW’s and I have not heard anyone do this. (2) Their official teaching seems to be of the view that “physical structures” will not survive into “the new system”.

Ubenedictus: wow good post, God is about peace and love and all those Good qualities, and country up against country should be, that was d reason pope pius xii gave so the catholic church was neutral during world war 2, but God is also about justice, and d innocent has a to defend himself against an oppressor, and God is also about prudence, and our life is important to him, this was d reason johnpaul 2 gave for advocating a non-violence-only demonstation in curbing d communist in poland instead of d military alternative, and it was sucessful. I know d issue is black and white to u, but as much as in any conflict i would say diplomacy first as d catholic church teaches, i would have no problem using a weapon on any unreasonable gunman about to shot any one of my family even if d weapon is fatal and even when i do that i would not have done anything wrong just as d catholic church teaches.
Donot pray that u ever be in that situation becos if u ever were u would have 2 options when d gunman is unreasonable 1 use d weapon on d gunman and go about feeling guilty that u just committed murder as d watch tower says, 2 donot use d weapon and live with the guilt all ur life that someone or people died becos u did ntin to help them.
Peace

Ubenedictus: wow good post, God is about peace and love and all those Good qualities, and country up against country should be, that was d reason pope pius xii gave so the catholic church was neutral during world war 2, but God is also about justice, and d innocent has a to defend himself against an oppressor, and God is also about prudence, and our life is important to him, this was d reason johnpaul 2 gave for advocating a non-violence-only demonstation in curbing d communist in poland instead of d military alternative, and it was sucessful. I know d issue is black and white to u, but as much as in any conflict i would say diplomacy first as d catholic church teaches, i would have no problem using a weapon on any unreasonable gunman about to shot any one of my family even if d weapon is fatal and even when i do that i would not have done anything wrong just as d catholic church teaches.
Donot pray that u ever be in that situation becos if u ever were u would have 2 options when d gunman is unreasonable 1 use d weapon on d gunman and go about feeling guilty that u just committed murder as d watch tower says, 2 donot use d weapon and live with the guilt all ur life that someone or people died becos u did ntin to help them.
Peace

comnsense: Well, if you can't see a purpose for my post, then you are either finding it difficult to understand what I've broken down in simple terms or you have shut your mind to learning anything other than what you believe in.
As to there being no purpose to my life, you may have meant that as an insult, but in some way, you are right. My life in itself is purposeless. I wasn't born or created with a purpose in the mind of any 'creator' as you believers would believe. I am an absolutely contingent being - that is I am just as much as I may not have been. I didn't have to be. I am simply the sperm that got to an egg first (And so are you my friend).
However, now I am here, it is up to me to imbue my existence with purpose, to lace my actions with intentions towards a goal. I make my own purpose; I give my life its purpose.

comnsense: Well, if you can't see a purpose for my post, then you are either finding it difficult to understand what I've broken down in simple terms or you have shut your mind to learning anything other than what you believe in.
As to there being no purpose to my life, you may have meant that as an insult, but in some way, you are right. My life in itself is purposeless. I wasn't born or created with a purpose in the mind of any 'creator' as you believers would believe. I am an absolutely contingent being - that is I am just as much as I may not have been. I didn't have to be. I am simply the sperm that got to an egg first (And so are you my friend).
However, now I am here, it is up to me to imbue my existence with purpose, to lace my actions with intentions towards a goal. I make my own purpose; I give my life its purpose.

comnsense: To your first question, I say that because it is logical. We cannot have an infinite regress...at some point there must have been a first cause that could not have been created and is eternal OR that came from 'nothing'. Now that something is eternal is problematic because if it is some-thing, then it came into being, it be-came. The only thing that can be eternal is Nothing or Void. So something must have come from Nothing or the Void. This is the only option.
But (and this answers question 2) scientists have proposed that the Nothing or Void before the Big Bang was not strictly nothing. It was a vacuum state with zero point energy - the lowest possible energy of a mechanical physical system. This is pure potential for becoming under which matter is popping in and out of existence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy explains more about zero point energy.
Read up on Prof Lawrence Krausse and his views on this.

comnsense: Oh sorry, with regard, to the second part of your question, it is very interesting that you mention psychological motivations because I think that it wasn't God that created humans in his image and likeness, it was the other way round. Humans have long engaged the question of the origin of all things and having decided that it must have started with a force that was itself uncaused (as you cannot have an infinite regress) they proceeded to give this force attributes. We are imaginative beings and because we are purposeful beings as well, we tend to see purpose in everything around us especially in Nature. Therefore the first cause must have had a purpose in mind to cause the universe and nature. That was where it began, the first cause was imbued with purpose and mind, next came will, emotions, likes and dislikes, rules, laws, favourite humans, messengers, son, sacrifice and so on. This is why our religions and their doctrines, especially, Christianity is largely anthropomorphic. It is a reflection of our own human lives and society...so we have a king and leader who sits on the throne (like most human societies). He has a son or prince who would succeed his dad and with his dad, gives us laws. If we disobey, we end up in prison (hell) except Catholics made it one better; if we have committed a minor offence, we go in temporarily (Purgatory) but major offences carry a life term (hell).

comnsense: Oh sorry, with regard, to the second part of your question, it is very interesting that you mention psychological motivations because I think that it wasn't God that created humans in his image and likeness, it was the other way round. Humans have long engaged the question of the origin of all things and having decided that it must have started with a force that was itself uncaused (as you cannot have an infinite regress) they proceeded to give this force attributes. We are imaginative beings and because we are purposeful beings as well, we tend to see purpose in everything around us especially in Nature. Therefore the first cause must have had a purpose in mind to cause the universe and nature. That was where it began, the first cause was imbued with purpose and mind, next came will, emotions, likes and dislikes, rules, laws, favourite humans, messengers, son, sacrifice and so on. This is why our religions and their doctrines, especially, Christianity is largely anthropomorphic. It is a reflection of our own human lives and society...so we have a king and leader who sits on the throne (like most human societies). He has a son or prince who would succeed his dad and with his dad, gives us laws. If we disobey, we end up in prison (hell) except Catholics made it one better; if we have committed a minor offence, we go in temporarily (Purgatory) but major offences carry a life term (hell).

Nimshi: truthislight: look, there's no need to copy/paste anything from anywhere regarding 607BCE. I will posit clear challenges here:

1) Do you know that JWs have not always believed in 607BCE?

2) Do you know that 606BCE was initially the first date being peddled (+ 2520 years)? This mistake is elementary, as I would soon show.

3) Do you know that the man who raised the issue of the mistake JWs were making between 606BCE & 607BCE, Raymond Franz, who was then a member of the Governing Body, left the JWs? His book "Crisis of Conscience" is one of the books JWs are forbidden to read. You could test this out sometime and tell one of the JW elders that you want to read this book. . .

Now, let me ask you a direct question: what are those teachings of JWs that you believe are unique?

(I can easily show you that 606BCE, 607BCE and 1914 are not indeed original JW teachings: Charles Taze Russell, who founded the JW religion, borrowed these beliefs from the 7th Day Adevntists; this is documented, and the evidence can be provided).

So, please itemise why you believe the JWs are special.

Regarding child molestation, it appears you don't want to examine the evidence.

1) Just two/three months ago, the sum of over USD20million was awarded by a US court against the JW organisation for child abuse. Here are the links:

--- http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/us/28-million-awarded-in-jehovahs-witnesses-abuse-case.html
--- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2160605/Candance-Conti-molested-Jehovahs-Witnesses-member-age-NINE-wins-28milion.html

2) This is not the first time; it happened a few years ago: in 2007 , JWs paid out millions of USD to settle child abuse cases. NBC news investigated and obtained documents showing one of the victims was paid USD 780,000 by the JWs; this is coming from some of the money you donate to the JWs.

3) Some members of the JWs who say what was happening but could not stomach it due to their conscience were hounded out of the JW organisation; this is documented.

4) I can explain why the JW congregations are a haven for paedophiles; it is quite easy once you understand the JW system for dealing with things like this.

Nimshi: --- 1) This is some of the nonsense JWs peddle. You betray your ignorance of the constituent costs of printed material. I will educate you here:

If you buy a book on say, www.amazon.co.uk for GBP 5.00 and you live in Nigeria; how much do you think it will cost to get the book to you? Almost certainly more than GBP 5.00.

Yet: you JWs have almost free labour for the production of all your books:
--- Some of the Writing Department people in your sect are paid salaries, the salaries are small
--- Almost all your GB (Governing Body) leaders get a maintenance fee, those are also small
--- Now, we come to the big one: marketing and distribution. In the real world, marketing is a big deal, but you JWs have zero marketing costs, and quite minimal distribution costs because people like Maximus85 are there to go to people's houses to market and distribute and sell the books for free. That's why the costs of your books are low, and you decieve people by telling them: 'look at the binding, look at the pictures, look at the quality; how much do you think a textbook like this will cost'? It's a useless question that has no meaning and is designed to deceive.



Essentially, yes; read my original post about this.



Of course, you wouldn't ask!

Like an ostrich: head in the sand: see no evil, hear no evil. That is exactly what some of your elders did when they found out fellow elders were raping children int he congregation.

And let me tell you: if you're humble enough to ask, I'll provide details. But far be it beyond me to offer pearls before hogs. You know very little about your religious sect; and it is a pity.



--- Pray for me?! The last refuge of the dejected religious! I don't need your prayers. Both Jesus the Christ and Jehovah, the tribal Jewish god of your sect have already prayed for and blessed me; heck, how do you think I knew all these things?

--- You are a diehard JW: almost no evidence will be enough for you, and when there's a hint of evidence, you close your eyes and don't want to see: none so blind as those who would not see. Yet, you will pick a bag, and go around misleading the uninformed, claiming you are preaching the 'good news of the kingdom'; what good news? There's no good news with JWs, only bad news.

Nimshi: 1) You're misinformed: ordinary JWs do not earn a salary. But a number fo people in their 'Bethel' centres earn salaries.

2) YOu want motivating forces?
(a) correctness
(b) dislike of deceit (
(c) dislike of making an apperance to be the only true Christians
(d) dislike of reaping where JWs have not sown
(e) dislike for the destruction of lives that JWs peddle as a religon
(f) dislike for a deceitful religion rubbishing all other Christians

3) I don't need you to join my team; I don't have a team

4) You're making a mistake about Adam: it is clear even from the bible that Adam knew all these things; he was not deceived, like Eve, his wife. Adam, according to the bible, made a conscious decision to do what he did. You have to be curious to want to know why; if you're not, too bad.

5) You're thoroughly mistaken about the JW organisation; you have fallen for their propaganda. The JWs were members of the United Nations DPI (where they enjoyed seveeral benefits for several years, including sticking to agreements to publicise the UN in their magazines), yet, they always claimed the UN is the wild beast in public. But once they were exposed as being deceitful, they withdrew their membership of the UN as an NGO. How is that being 'separate from the world'?

6) Yes, they don't collect tithes, but they collect 'donations'. Do you think their activities are funded by manna from heaven? No! They emply free labour to distribute their books, and they collect the excess funds and invest in properties. They also have shares in companies producing weapons of singular and mass destrcution; yet, they criticise war. Do you see the hypocrisy?

7) No, I do not hate JWs (it is in fact irrelevant if I did); I know most ordinary JWs, the ones you see on the streets and the sort who come here to defend their faith are victims themselves: they have been indoctrinated, most of them have no real life outside their JW circles, and their religion steers them to isolaing themselves from people, they call this being 'separate from the world'. The harm being done is great. Also, JWs destroy faith in God for people who end up believing them: if you become a JW, you cannot leave the religion without some serious consequences; this is not Christianity, it is slavery. The problem is that most people do not know until they're deep in; many become trapped and cannot leave.

8') My interest is partly in studying high-control religious sects, how they operate, how they recruit members, how they rationalise when their prophecies fail, how they keep their members in, and what they do to those who don't anymore want to be members. JWs are one of the most dangerous. And I don't ever instruct people not to become JWS, no; I however want them to be fully informed of the meaning of what they want to do, and the consequences it will have on their lives. JWs do not fully inform their potential converts.

9) It is clear to me that someone like Maximus85 has limited knowledge of jis JW religion; either that, or, he is being exceptionally deceitful. These are not idle statements, I am able to provide documented evidence from JW literature that this is the case based on the responses by that fellow on this thread.

10) If you have any other direct questions, you can ask; if you are dissatisfied with any of the above or require further information, just ask.

.

PhysicsQED: You say this because. . .?



What schools are these? Reference?

Maximus85: …the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced.
MEANING THE PROCESS TO COMPLETELY OVERTHROW EARTH'S PRESENT RULERSHIP STARTED IN 1914.

Nimshi: Actually, you're the one being possibly deceitful; either that or you're uninformed, or that you've been indoctrinated to believe a lie so much so that you cannot tell the difference between the lie and the truth. JWs have not mentioned specific dates (not in the sense of Date/Month/Year), but they have mentioned Years (a safer bet for a gambling sect).

The JW religion has predicted dates for the end of the world. The last date (the one that caused many people to leave your date-crashing organisation) was 1975. JW chronology led to 1975 as the end of 6,000 years, which JW chronology equated to being the beginning fo the rest of God (going by that most foolish notion that 1000 years = 1 day).

The JW religion predicted the end in 1914; and I have that challenge pending: let any JW show us anything the JW organisation wrote about 1914 before 1914 that was correct; and for every one such 'fact', we will supply two falsehoods.

The JW religion also predicted the end in 1925. The JWs also predicted the end of the world as the end of the last century.

Speculation about the meaning of 'generation' has led to the JW religion 'indicating' other dates as the end of the world. As we speak - right at the moment - the leaders of the JW religion in the US are encouraging young men and women no to expect to get old in 'this system of things'. They said the same things in the 60s. Many people are being misled to abandon their futures and stake it on the predictions of the men from Brooklyn.

This is one dangerous religion; many of the followers don't know it.

.

OLAADEGBU: This is what your organisation's publication said:

"…the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced." — The Time is At Hand, Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 2, 1886, 1911 edition, p. 101

http://4jehovah.org/images/stories/downloads/jehovahs_witness/prophecy/time_is_at_hand-1911ed-p101.pdf

Are you saying that you are still holding on to this prophecy?

Ubenedictus: yes he did, but he didnt in any way add d word 'body' when talking about d father.

what part of d word spirit do u not understand 'immaterial' is one of d xracteristic of a spirit.

just to correct u paul didnt say d 2nd adam as a heavenly body, he said d 2nd adam is a 'life giving spirit. But yes i believe that truely christ after his resurrection had a spiritual body.

what is there to reconcile?

who said Jesus is in flesh and bones?

he is in heaven, and yes even after d final judgement some xtian will b in heaven in a spiritual body.

that can happen when d physical has been transform by d spiritual. D body is not an hindrance that is why it is a 'spiritual body'.

ha! U know i find it surprising, JW don blive a human has a spirit, yet they belive dat after d general resurrection those 144000 in heaven will be spirits. How do u reconcile those 2 positions? Man has not spirit yet a spirit of some men will b in heaven. Contradiction.
Peace

lagerwhenindoubt: @truthislight @ijawkid asides the intricacies and finer points, I do believe we agree on the above.
Jesus is in Heaven in a Spirit (Glorified) body that believer bound for heaven will acquire. as per Cor. 15 and if you follow Luke 24:37 you will realize that Jesus possessed and earthly body not a Spirit one - abi you are calling Jesus a liar

lagerwhenindoubt: @truthislight @ijawkid asides the intricacies and finer points, I do believe we agree on the above.
Jesus is in Heaven in a Spirit (Glorified) body that believer bound for heaven will acquire. as per Cor. 15 and if you follow Luke 24:37 you will realize that Jesus possessed and earthly body not a Spirit one - abi you are calling Jesus a liar

lagerwhenindoubt: @truthislight @ijawkid asides the intricacies and finer points, I do believe we agree on the above.
Jesus is in Heaven in a Spirit (Glorified) body that believer bound for heaven will acquire. as per Cor. 15 and if you follow Luke 24:37 you will realize that Jesus possessed and earthly body not a Spirit one - abi you are calling Jesus a liar

OLAADEGBU: Are you saying that we have to study Greek and Hebrew to understand what was printed in 1886 in the 1911 edition? Hello o! It says that the battle is already commenced at that it will end in A.D. 1914. I hope you are not trying to pull wool over our eyes.