₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus: no u have made urself increasingly unclear, yes enigma was correct, no he lied. Simple answer, d long stuff u gave me didnt have any ansa

Ubenedictus: So ijawkid is around. Pls, can u help truthislight ansa d questions i asked.

ijawkid: Why shouldn't worship in its realest sense be retained exclusively for GOD??.......how many true Gods do we have??...is it not Just the Father alone??........

The NWT has been consistent with its rendering of the word ""worship""...........

Take a look at this rendering of matthew 2:2..from the darby translation.

Darby Bible Translation
Where is the king of the Jews that has been
born? for we have seen his star in the east,
and have come to do him homage.
_______________________________

Using the word worship in that verse would make it look like those men took the baby Jesus as there God and then rendered worship to him.........worship could still be used but the reader should discern which aspect of the greek word is been implied there....for more accuracy and unambiguity words like adore,pay homage,bow down are used.........

And again you're still saying the NWT "changed"......is it only the NWT that changed??.............look up the darby rendering........thank you...........

ijawkid: And again you're still saying the NWT "changed"......is it only the NWT that changed??.............look up the darby rendering........thank you...........

rezzy: I mean i have confirmed it from the JW bible. In matt 2 vs 2, the word worship was not used, why? If in every portion of the bible where the word worship is found has the same greek word, then why must Nwt change it to adore or honour when its talking about Jesus? If they want to remove worship, then they should totally remove it, not using adore or honour when it comes to Jesus and retain d word worship when it comes to God. I think the reason is to suit that doctrine.

Ubenedictus: oga, u didnt even ansa my question! This isnt abt infalibility. This is a simple question, when enigma said d nwt once translated heb1:6 as worship was he correct? Or did lie? Simple. I dont understand d long post above dat didnt ansa my question

Ubenedictus: oga, u didnt even ansa my question! This isnt abt infalibility. This is a simple question, when enigma said d nwt once translated heb1:6 as worship was he correct? Or did lie? Simple. I dont understand d long post above dat didnt ansa my question

Ubenedictus: i really dont get the above, the question isnt whether d jw translation is right or not. I'm not accusing anyone no need to get defensive. I simply asked u to answer whether or not d jw translation first had d word "worship" and later changed it in d later editions.
Is enigma right dat d jw once translated it as worship? Or is he wrong? That is all. I'm not trying to point fingers at nobody. That's all

rezzy: I confirmed it so i cant be lying. And i av also asked some of my JW colleagues, instead of answering me, they asked me another question to cover up

Ubenedictus: Oga truth abeg ansa d question, was d word changed later yes or no? I no sabi una long talk.

Ubenedictus: u shuld learn some manners and stop d name calling, all my answers were spot on!

italo: Why don't you shut ur traps about things you don't know? That's why you never learn. You are not just ignorant, you are stubbornly and arrogantly ignorant.

There are many married Catholic priests!

Ubenedictus: a simple explanation, Jesus is God, by d work of d holyspirit he entered d womb of mary and took flesh, gave gave birth to Jesus who was both God and man, thus mary is d moda of God. Note d above statement flow unless u deny d premise u cant deny d conclusion. Moda of God doesnt mean mary is d origin of d divinity just as my mum didnt produce my spirit but she gave birth to christ both God and man, thus she is d bearer of God

because he is, and peter was.
it is a title not a term, im not sure of it origin, but it arose probably after d death of constantine.
d same reason dat d bible says paul fathered timothy.
there are many married priest. D principle behind Celibacy is 1 cor 7:32-35
galileo wasnt tortured or murdered he died a normal death, u were misinformed. Galileo was sentence to house arrest.
i wont dispute this.
indulgence were never sold, probably abused but never sold. U were misinformed.
d church has done all she can to check d molestation of minors, from legislating dat all accused priest b immediately reported to d police, making sure d sentenced priest face d law, concentrating on detecting such behaviours during their formation and ecclesiatical punishment like censure, loss of faculties, defrocking etc. And settleing d abused even till many dioceses became bankrupt.
what relationship does God really have with nigeria?

Ubenedictus: there are many married priest.

Ubenedictus: galileo wasnt tortured or murdered he died a normal death, u were misinformed. Galileo was sentence to house arrest.

Neddivine: Anyigala:

Sorry, but you are not making sense.


No I won't make sense to u cos I'm not addressing u.I'm addressing those who have the cloak removed enough from their eyes to see that catholics are unconsciously deeply invoved in idol worship.

Neddivine: WHY IS IT THAT I POST THE WORD FOR THE TYPE OF HORSE THAT BALAAM USED WHICH SPOKE WHEN THE ANGEL STOOD ON THEIR WAY BUT THE NAIRALAND SYSTEM SEEMS TO CHANGE THAT VERY WORD TO "BOTTOM" WHEN I INTEND NO PROFANITY.MODERATORS SHOULD PLEASE LOOK INTO THIS.

italo: @ truthislight,

What is wrong in directing him to websites that speak the mind of the Church which is also my mind?

You always find something wrong in whatever any Catholic does, don't you?

GiantParrot: As someone who hails from a mostly Catholic family, I have been having my own problems with digesting the dogmatic (in my opinion) statements about Mary and the Church in general. I'm even getting disillusioned with all forms of religious formalism. After years of careful observation and introspection leading to freedom from denial, I am beginning to view religion the way it is currently practiced (and even what has being in practice in the past) with great suspicion. It's beginning to look more to me as a pardonable cause for brazen hypocrisy. I do however, still believe in God. Here are my problems with the Roman Catholic Church:

1. Mary is the Mother of God? This statement sounds very misleading to me. When I hear the word: God, I think of a Divine Being that exists from everlasting to everlasting. How can He then have a mother? Did Mary give birth to Jesus' divinity as the statement suggests? If anyone decides to give an answer, I would remind you that I am no longer in the frame of mind to deceive myself anymore. Please give a reasonable explanation.

2. Why is the Pope said to be infallible and a heir to Peter? Was Peter infallible?
3. Where did the term Pontifex Maximus come from?
4. Why is the Pope referred to as Holy Father and Catholic Priests as Fathers? Please read Matthew 23:9 and Luke 17:11
5. Peter did marry. Why do Popes and Priest not get married?
6. I find the murder of Galileo to be very disturbing given that the people who tried him and tortured him were supposed to be the closest to God
7. The inquisitions. There is hardly anything more antithetical to the love and compassion demonstrated by Jesus Christ than the inquisitions.
8. The sales of indulgences so as to provide the means for the construction of St. Peters Basilica.
9. What has the Church done to check molestation of minors? Do those found guilty of molestation get to face the weight of the law?
10. What relationship does God really have with Rome?

GiantParrot: As someone who hails from a mostly Catholic family, I have been having my own problems with digesting the dogmatic (in my opinion) statements about Mary and the Church in general. I'm even getting disillusioned with all forms of religious formalism. After years of careful observation and introspection leading to freedom from denial, I am beginning to view religion the way it is currently practiced (and even what has being in practice in the past) with great suspicion. It's beginning to look more to me as a pardonable cause for brazen hypocrisy. I do however, still believe in God. Here are my problems with the Roman Catholic Church:

1. Mary is the Mother of God? This statement sounds very misleading to me. When I hear the word: God, I think of a Divine Being that exists from everlasting to everlasting. How can He then have a mother? Did Mary give birth to Jesus' divinity as the statement suggests? If anyone decides to give an answer, I would remind you that I am no longer in the frame of mind to deceive myself anymore. Please give a reasonable explanation.

2. Why is the Pope said to be infallible and a heir to Peter? Was Peter infallible?
3. Where did the term Pontifex Maximus come from?
4. Why is the Pope referred to as Holy Father and Catholic Priests as Fathers? Please read Matthew 23:9 and Luke 17:11
5. Peter did marry. Why do Popes and Priest not get married?
6. I find the murder of Galileo to be very disturbing given that the people who tried him and tortured him were supposed to be the closest to God
7. The inquisitions. There is hardly anything more antithetical to the love and compassion demonstrated by Jesus Christ than the inquisitions.
8. The sales of indulgences so as to provide the means for the construction of St. Peters Basilica.
9. What has the Church done to check molestation of minors? Do those found guilty of molestation get to face the weight of the law?
10. What relationship does God really have with Rome?

italo: Let me direct you to www.catholic.com

They have answers to all you questions there. Just type in key words to their search bar.

Another good one is www.scripturecatholic.com

If you want to know about the Catholic Church, whom do you go to? The Catholic Church or its enemies?

If I want to know about your family, whom do I go to? Your family or its enemies?

Listen to us for once!

Zikkyy: No, i don't. i try to make my practice as simple as possible without introducing unnecessary complexities.



I see this as one of those unnecessary complexities. what is my business with purgatory. My brother am interested in the final destination and not some imaginary bus-stop deduced from some ancient practices.

Anyigala: 1. The same Church that added additional 27 books to the OT to give you this Bible you have today. Secondly, I explained the biblical basis of Rosary which is quite self explanatory if you had made any effort to read it. If I can trust the Bible the gave me, then I certainly will trust the Rosary which is very and truly biblical.

2. My claim is based on common sense, from the 1st to late 3rd centuries, there was nothing like the Bible you have now. The Church decided to add 27 books to the OT , these 27 books were selected from more than 250 other books/ letters read in some Churches at that time. If you have access to all these books today, will you be able to select the same books that makesup the NT we have now? The Church through the power of the Holy Spirit chose 27 books as inspired Books that would eventually form the NT. Holy Spirit didn't stop working in the Church after that, it continued and is still working in the Church today. The Church 1800 year ago is organically the same Church it is today. If you have ever read some of the things the early Church fathers wrote, you will know that the Church didn't deviate, Martin Luther and John Calvin together with 100's of other Church founders in the last 500 years deviated.
3. Christ most certainly handed the Keys ( key signifies authority in Christ's time) to Peter and he told Peter to feed and tend His sheep. He also says to Peter that he will build His Church upon him. Christ says this not me, you can try to interpret it how you like but its as clear as morning sky.

The rest of your claims doesn't deserve my answer because they are quite frankly, childish and baseless claims that you cannot back up with any fact or evidence.


John Henry Cardinal Newman once said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." By the way Cardinal Newman was an Anglican in the 18th century England and one of the greatest minds of his generation, he hated Catholic Church somuch that he decided to debunk all Her claims, before the end of his research he converted to Catholicism.

Ubenedictus: i didnt say parish, i said rites/churches, on will be d antiochene catholic church, there are others, google and wiki are ur friends.

Ubenedictus: if u were open minded enuf to read, just read, my earlier response, u would have noticed i mentioned married priest but ur voluntary blindness prevented u from seeing it and went on to make d silly comment above.
Complete 22 rites have married priesthood 22 out of 23rites, have married priesthood. No one, i repeat no one is forbiden from marriage, u make a choice either to be married or celebate. And as 1 cor 7:32-35 shows it is very licit to chose not to be married in other to be devoted to d lord. Infact d passage shows d advantage of d celebate compare to a married man, dat is why celebacy is encouraged and in some cases d norm in d priesthood.
Celebacy is totally consistent with biblical revelation.

Enigma: ^^^ OK Mr Liar

Did you Jehovah Witnesses change the word "worship" (in Hebrews 1:6) in an earlier version of your "bible" to another word in a later edition or not?

Enigma: ^^^ OK Mr Liar

Did you Jehovah Witnesses change the word "worship" (in Hebrews 1:6) in an earlier version of your "bible" to another word in a later edition or not?

Enigma: ^^^ OK Mr Liar

Did you Jehovah Witnesses change the word "worship" (in Hebrews 1:6) in an earlier version of your "bible" to another word in a later edition or not?

Enigma: ^^^ OK Mr Liar

Did you Jehovah Witnesses change the word "worship" (in Hebrews 1:6) in an earlier version of your "bible" to another word in a later edition or not?

Enigma: OK Mr Liar

Did you Jehovah Witnesses change the word "worship" (in Hebrews 1:6) in an earlier version of your "bible" to another word or not?

Enigma: ^^^ So now that you are unable to point to the "lie" I was pushed into I am going to categorically call you a LIAR.

I respect people but one thing that makes me lose respect for people fast is dishonesty. And you have been plain dishonest here --- in addition to littlle little ones that I had deliberately ignored in the past.

Nonsense!

Enigma: ^^^ Point to the "lie" that I've been pushed into!!!!

rezzy: i came across an article yesterday, and found out that in the NWT, when it comes to anything that has to do with Jesus and worship, the word worship wont be used. They look for another word. But from the original greek bible worship was used. Pls why the omission?

Enigma: I have also seen something similar; in fact I understand that in even Hebrews 1:6 where they originally left 'worship', they changed the word in a later edition. In any event, the Jehovah's Witnesses are widely regarded as tailoring their version of the Bible to fit their preconceived doctrines.

Enigma: Before I reply to your other post, could you please point to the lie I've been pushed into? Which lie are you talking about?

Enigma: I have also seen something similar; in fact I understand that in even Hebrews 1:6 where they originally left 'worship', they changed the word in a later edition. In any event, the Jehovah's Witnesses are widely regarded as tailoring their version of the Bible to fit their preconceived doctrines.

Enigma: I have also seen something similar; in fact I understand that in even Hebrews 1:6 where they originally left 'worship', they changed the word in a later edition. In any event, the Jehovah's Witnesses are widely regarded as tailoring their version of the Bible to fit their preconceived doctrines.

Enigma: Bros, it is not really totally unreasonable to go off topic or even to discuss that particular topic here.

My own grouse is that when some people talk nonsense that they cannot substantiate, they then desperately look for ways to obfuscate that issue so that others forget it --- instead of doing the decent, honest thing that people in quest for "Truth" or claiming to be committed to "Truth" should do: the honourable thing of saying "OK I have no proof for that statement".

In general, I am very averse to playing that game with them.

PS don't mind that I am being tough on "Roman Catholic defenders" in another thread; for me, it is actually nothing personal with anyone on this forum.

Enigma: I have also seen something similar; in fact I understand that in even Hebrews 1:6 where they originally left 'worship', they changed the word in a later edition. In any event, the Jehovah's Witnesses are widely regarded as tailoring their version of the Bible to fit their preconceived doctrines.

Enigma: ^^^ Actually, that topic you are touching upon is a very fascinating one if you read the literature.

For me however, as I don't see what all that have to do with the allegation that the translation of John 1:1 as the Word was God was because of some alleged fraud, agenda or whatever, I will very deliberately not get involved in it on this thread.

I simply wait for proof of the fraud, agenda or whatever that led to the translation of John 1:1 as the Word was God.

Enigma: I have also seen something similar; in fact I understand that in even Hebrews 1:6 where they originally left 'worship', they changed the word in a later edition. In any event, the Jehovah's Witnesses are widely regarded as tailoring their version of the Bible to fit their preconceived doctrines.