₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus: actually in the right sense of the word david was worshipped, i'm not pulling ur legs, epistemologically d word worship refers to both veneration, honor, homage and adoration that is why it translates proskyne perfectly. Worship in its actual sense doesnt exclusively mean adoration.

This ^^^ seems to make a lot of sense, but Enigma will come and fault you for including the word "adoration", accussing you of being a Jw or "NWT" influence.

However, what was given to David cannot be the same with what is given to the almighty God, hence the need to use "Adoration" in certain translations.

But such ^ is what that inform Enigma's attack on the NWT bible.

Honesty cannot be bought in the market place.

AIO having conscience has been trying to pass knowledge out, though some people seems to be blinded sometimes it seems.
*sigh

ijawkid: _______________________________
Douay-Rheims Bible
And again, when he bringeth in the first
begotten into the world, he saith: And let all
the angels of God adore him.
________________________________


Young's Literal Translation
and when again He may bring in the first-born
to the world, He saith, 'And let them bow
before him -
_______________________________


@enigma the rendering of the NWT is perfectly alright..........context should tell you when and how to render the greek word ""pro·sky·ne′o.............persons who want to claim Jesus is the almighty God would rush to render that greek word as worship to make it look like Jesus is the almighty GOD that deserves exclusive devotion,when we all know that both Jesus and all the angels worship the Father..............the angels bowed down by giving Jesus all due respect as Gods annointed one........chikena!!!!......

Read this scripture below from KJV.......
1 chronicles 29:20,23

20 And David said to all the congregation, Now
bless the LORD your God. And all the
congregation blessed the LORD God of their
fathers, and bowed down their heads, and
worshipped[/b]the LORD, and the king.

23... Then Solomon sat on the [b]throne of the
LORD as king instead of David his father, and
prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.
_______________________________

Reading that verse would seem like david was also worshipped as God.......but NO...........

the isrealites bowed down to Yahweh and his appointed king who sat on his(Yahwehs) throne................

The NWT is so damn perfect with its rendering at hebrews 1:6......

Triniterian should wake up from their slumber.

Just imagine the lies trinity will push Enigma into.

Is it not similarl influence that cause his predecessors to alter the scriptures?

What an influence!

@Enigma

Enigma: I have also seen something similar; in fact I understand that in even Hebrews 1:6 where they originally left 'worship', they changed the word in a later edition. In any event, the Jehovah's Witnesses are widely regarded as tailoring their version of the Bible to fit their preconceived doctrines.

with due respect, i am of the opinion that your mature age has started having affect on your judgement, if it is possible to take this into consideration, i will advice that you henceforth give a second thought to your opinion befor you post them.

Please, @Enigma.

is it only the NWT that use a word other than worship in that Hebrews 1:6?

If not, then consider taking my observation very seriousely.
Peace.

kmcutez: @image123

Do not know who you are, but from this your one post I just read, you my friend are filled with pride, and fit the group of persons Jesus referred to as the scribes and pharisees.

lol.

Why did this post get six(6) likes? Lol.

Na wao.

@Image123, its time you do something about your image.
*smh*

Logicboy03: I am not arguing with you anymore, you are delusional. Justake a review of what you wrote in bold. The contradiction is glaring

to you.

The truth is, there is a difference between the soul and the spirit.

Logicboy03: What is wrong with you? You are playing a very silly game.


Quoting random and ambigious bible passages that have no relations to the argument at hand and then claiming it supports your very unchristian views of souls is quite silly.


Not only that, your claim that the soul is the man or the animal makes your soul theory even more silly because you are inherently saying souls do not exist, especially as a partof man, it is just a synonym for man.


If God is the originator, he has to explain how he made the mistake of joining two souls in the case of the siamese twins. You can obfuscate all you want. You have to still answer this question

Your inability to grasp what the bible says is not my fault.

I have stated what the bible says, if you are disappointed that the bible is right it is your headech.

Meanwhile, this is what the bible says:

Logicboy03: you are inherently saying souls do not exist, especially as a partof man, it is just a synonym for man.

^^^
yes, but not just man but also fishes, animal, insects, etc, that has blood the bible says.

Pls, take your grievances out on those that misrepresents what the bible says.

There is nothing that leaves the body that is called "soul" since the living man is the soul.

The bible says the spirit of God is what that goes back to God.

Take note of the plans of yahweh since satan has failed, his returning to man is going to lead to this:

"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:3-4).

Peace

brainpulse: Matt 7: 13-15

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

some bible translation simply distorts the message of the bible as to hide the meaning.

brainpulse: Matt 7: 13-15

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Is straith the opposit of narrow?

The right word should be broad or wide since many are going in through it.
Peace

you really need to learn to show understanding and not always thinking that every thing is about "debating".

I had shown you this:

"we know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (1 John 5:19).

So, why make this statement?:

Logicboy03:


What is your point? God is not the originator

Logicboy03: and Satan is the one that puts souls in humans?

you dont impressed me one bit.
You keep going in circles.

I have shown you that the man is the soul.
the physical person is the soul.
Fishes and Animals.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7).
............:...........

^^^

the man "came to be" a living soul.

"Came to be" a soul and not "put soul" into the man.

Stop the dancing and know that the bible is not responsible for the lies you had belief all this while.
Peace.

Logicboy03:


Satan is in charge of your souls?

"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince(ruler) of this world be cast out. " (John 12:31).


"Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince(ruler) of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. " (John 14:30).

"Of judgment, because the prince(ruler) of this world is judged. " (John 16:11).

"we know that we that we originate with God, but the whole world is in the power of the wicked noe." (1 John 5:19).

"And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for it has been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be yours." (Luke 4:5-7).
.....................

The bible is not written to meet your fancy.

Logicboy03: Without the catholic church, there wouldnt be jehovah's witness in the first place.



Does the Jehovah witness teach about heaven? If heaven is eternal, what part of man goes to heaven? Your soul theory aint complete bro

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." (1 Corinthians 15:40-44).

italo: @ Emilo2stay,

These verses in 2Maccabees that you say are lies from satan were also put into the KJV. Why would the people who produced the KJV put satan's word in between God's word. What does it matter, whether they put it between, on top, under, inside etc, the fact is they put it in the Bible. Why put satan's word in the Bible?

My early Church fathers say the Bible, as they gave it to us is God's word. It is YOU who say satan's word was put in between God's word. So it is you who has to tell us when satan put his word into God's word.

Many writters quote the bible or torah.

Even satan quote the bible.

That the apocriphal quote the bible and Jesus happen to quote a similar statement does not mean that that Jesus quoted the apocriphal.

That Jesus talked about Adam and Abraham and the quran talked about Adam and Abraham in same fashion, does that mean that Jesus was quoting from the quoran?

Smh.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]^^^^ Gone through the link and the thread was fantastic (although Mazaje never replied your last post).
On the issue of Israel being the chosen ones, Romans 9 really helps us to understand what it really means to be part of God's chosen people but the thing is, it was later that it became so. It used to be about physical descendants of Isaac and not believers in God (remember that the Israelites just went off eliminating unbelievers without giving them the chance to come to know the true God). In another part of the bible, Jesus specifically told a woman that He only came for the lost sheep of Israel (physical descendants) and no one else.[/quote]This was the plans of yahweh all along:

(Isaiah 49:6).
"And he said, It is a light thing that thou(Israel) shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth." (Isaiah 49:6).

(Acts 13:44-47)
"And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying,
"I have set thee(Israel) to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth."" (Acts 13:44-47).

(Acts 14:16-17).
"Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness." (Acts 14:16-17).
............................

But with the pearance of the messiah, yahweh has opened the way for all men to accessed him:

(1 Timothy 2:3-4)
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
....................

Make the best use ^^^^ of it.
Peace

ifeness: Why not quote from isaiah 45. Where you god boastfully said he created good and evil,he created light and disasters! And yet you blame the devil for bad things?

Yahweh is the source of all things since just as a father is the source of all his children, but the one called a "theif" was not born a theif but became a theif when his greed makes him to steal another persons property.

Yahweh also made the evil day for such ^^^ a person that has turned to doing evil, since he the evil ones will be destroyed that day of the evil day.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]^^^^ I'm not declaring atheism.[/quote]well, that is your call.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]I just find it hard to believe that the God referred to as a man of war in the bible is actually GOD.[/quote]man was created in the image of God.
Why is it then impossible for such figure of speech to be raverted?

That we are created in the image of God, does that make us Gods as in the almighty God? No. But it help us to know that we have certain attribute that is peculiar to God, that other creatures dont have (love, justice, etc)

man of war tells you that when it comes to bettles/war, there is no one that can withstand him, words that the sons of Israel can relet with to help build their confident

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]What is the point of having such a large universe if You are only going to focus on Israel?[/quote]Israel was chosen for a purpose.
When Adam sold off to satan, mankind went under the control of satan.
Adam was a free moral agent, so, when he made a choice to stick to the offer of satan, or obeyed satan instead of yahweh, his right has to be respected, as such, Yahweh hands off and let him go with satan.

(Romans 6:16).
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16).
............

However, the ofspring of Adam were suffering due to the outcome of the action of Adam under the coaching of satan.

Since yahweh had hands off on Adam as it were all mankind was in dare strait, the way forward was a process to undo what Adam had caused/lost and the way out was to ransom, buy back what Adam had lost.

To archeive this goal, the messaiah or the means of redemption has to come and it should be an equivalent to what was lost a perfect man.

But none of Adam's children can be perfect since the templet(Adam) had an inperfection, as such, all of it output automatically were imperfect.

As such, yahweh had to build his own nation, different from all the nations under satan while he had hands off in Eden all the while, so, all nations on earth worshiped satan. = pegan.

Israel was his personal property, through which the messiah will come, while the other nations were satan's.
The battles therein was between yahweh and satan in diguies. Satan wanted to foil the plan of bringing the messiah by yahweh.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]Why confuse the language of man because you don't want them to build a city and be united?[/quote]The reason of the tower being to "stay togather" was against the express will of God to be fruitefull and multiply and fill the whole eatth.

How will that ^^^ be archeive with the plan of Nimrod being in oposition to the plans of God?

Nimrod was even an "hunter in opposition to to God" the bible says.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]And truth be told, I still don't understand why Christ had to be killed before we could be forgiven,[/quote]A perfect man died/was lost and as such it demands a perfect man to satisfy devine justice of "soul for soul".

Without the shadding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin:

(Hebrews 9:22-24).
"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:" (Hebrews 9:22-24).

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]and also if Christ took all our sins and died with it, doesn't that mean that He was a sinner at death?[/quote]"For the wages of sin is death; " (Romans 6:23).
And
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:7).

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]Why did Christ say that the generation that He was talking to 2,000 years ago would still be alive when He returned (are they not dead yet?).[/quote]you need to understand what he meant by "his return" and when.

When you know that ^^ then you will have the full sense of it.
Peace

italo: Question 1: you said you were once a Catholic. Have you ever worshipped Mary or her statue? YES or NO?

Question 2: do you mean that God also contradicted his own law when he asked the Israelites to make a graven image of a bronze serpent and the Cherubs of the Ark of the covenant?

An express instruction from God is what it is, an express instruction.

Where did you get the instruction to make an image of Mary and Christ?

Rich4god: No one is claiming the fellowership of christ to his/herself... What we are saying is that the very church you are criticizing is the very one whose past leaders/clergies cannonized the bible.

Thats your headech.

Am interested in what the words of the epistle of the apostles of christ says.

Reyginus: Seems that's the best you can go now. Truth, with all sincerity, your explanation is not strong enough to make me discard the concept of purgatory.

All men on their own.

Whatever you wish to belief is your call.

chukwudi44: Going by these same reasonoing before the word 'bible' came about the apostles were long dead.Even before the Bible was compiled and the Anonymous gospels were given the names they now bear the apostles were long dead.Should we now say the bible is invalid?

Does the name given to the sixty six little books determine who is a christian?

Why not say that the early christians compiled the bible?

Why catholic and not christian? Why claiming the fellowership of christ to yourself?

Presumptiousness, dont you think so?

Afteral the word christian is in the bible, why change it?

Even the person that change it is not an apostle and the word has nothing to do with following christ.

Well, the bible had warned us already:

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." (Acts 20:29-30).
................................

^^^
Take note ^^^.

You have been warned!

Logicboy03: Here are the problems with what you just said;

a) You are admitting that God put 2 souls in one body. Your God is erroneous since he is in charge of souls.
b) You have just added to the bible. Nowhere in the bible does it say that siamese twins will be separated in the afterlife.
c) Every individual action affects both of them, if one is an atheist, the other is unequally yoked with an unbeliever.

1. They were supposed to be twins, no?

2. You seem to have forgetten that Yahweh did hands off in the garden of eden when he drove Adam and eve away.

That satan does not have the power to keep things going perfectly is the proplem here, and the reason Yahweh says he will intervene and remove all evil.

"And we know that we originate with God, but the whole world is in the power of the wicked one." (1 John 5:19).

Satan started what he could not control

obadiah777: HOW ARE YA CHIEF ? BEEN A WHILE. HAVE YOU GONE APOSTATE ?

Not on the queue and never will be.

italo: Why should I use a book you think could be partly inspired by satan to defend my stance?



Yes.



Do you agree with Enigma that the original King James Bible had the Deuterocanonical books which you call "apocrypha?"

If you do it would mean that the KJV was done under the inspiration of satan.

The NT scriptures are writings of the apostles of christ for a guide to christians.

The apocriphals, who wrote them? Christ apostles? No. So, who wrote them?

Why should christians use them?

That kingjames or James king or who ever added them to his collections has nothing to do with the words of christ apostles whom we know that he christ had said that the almighty hand picked those apostles for him.

Were the apocriphals written by Who?

Please, name the writters of the apocriphals, or, can i also write my own books and add them to the bible? You tell me!

obadiah777: LOOK AT THIS PHARISEE TRUTHISLIGHT. NO I AM NOT THE mosthigh. INFACT I AM BUT A MERE SERVANT, A MINISTERING SPIRIT SENT TO SERVE THOSE WHO WILL INHERIT SALVATION
I ONLY HAVE 2 IDS. HAVING MORE THAN 2 IS THE HEIGHT OF CHILDISHNESS AND I AM NOT A CHILD. I JUST NEED THE EXTRA ONE FOR WHEN ONE GETS BANNED. SO I AM NOT mosthigh. <<<< mosthigh HOPE YOU DONT MIND ME USING YOUR NAME IN SMALL LETTERS CUZ YOU KNOW THERE IS ONLY ONE MOST-HIGH

JeSoul: Firstly, let me assure you asking questions about what you believe is a fantastic thing. You are in a good position, now you will really figure out what your faith is made of and whether it is worth holding on to - to you.

The bible is a complicated book. All through history many have used it to their own ends - murderers have used it to justify their crimes, racists have used it to justify their hate, theives have used it to justify their greed, oppressors have used it to justify their tyranny and so on...the bible can say almost whatever you want it to say.

The OT in particular is tough. And I will not pretend to say I understand it completely myself - but what I do know without a shadow of doubt is that compared to the greatness & vastness of God, what I know is next to nothing. So when I struggle, I remind myself my knowledge is only but a grain of sand in a vast ocean. So keep an open mind. Don't draw definitive conclusions from only one angle. The OT was written by people completely different from us, in completely different times, under completely different circumstances and very important - in a completely different context & language. Much of the meanings - literal or figurative - I fear are lost or muddled in translation.

For example the issue of "God hardening Pharoah's heart"... which is it? because several (I think at least 2 other verses in Exodus) explicitly say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart! this is the danger of building a philosophy on only one or two verses. it is widely accepted among reputable scholars that practically everything was viewed as an act of God and therefore attributed to Him. Also there is another school of thought that says Pharaoh hardened his heart and God facilitated it - this takes into account both sides.

So in a nutshell - keep asking questions. But be careful of the conclusions you draw from short, limited or hollow study. If after you conclude your research and decide that God & the bible are not for you, then good too. Just be convinced about it - for you cannot be lukewarm. Godbless brother .

Maybe he has a plan.

Next he declear atheism instead of asking question.

Is he not the same person that has always come out to defend Rcc?
It sounds very familiar.

Logicboy03: So, do the siamese twins share one soul?

Wheather they shear four head as an entity they are soul.

The person(with blood) is the soul.

Irrespective of the shape.

If they are two person(with blood) they are two soul.

If siamese twins are resurected, they will not remain conjoined but will have seperate bodies.

If they make different decission they are accountable for the decission they make individually.

The action is first carried out in the mind befor the physical output, so, the action they decide upon is an individual thing.

Jesus says that:
"if someone continues to look at a woman as to developed passion for that person in his heart, he has already commited furnication with that person in hos heart".

To say "a person, there must be a mind",
The person = the mind/intelligence.
what that determinds what is a person, is the mind, intelligence.


If they are two person(with blood) they are two soul.

justaqad: who?

logic boy.

Logicboy03: Mtchew.....why not addrss the thread since you believe in souls?

the bible says that the man is the soul, the complete parkeage and not that there is something inside the man called soul.

It is you that had allowed the platonic lie to deceive you all this while.

Be it animal, a three(3) head man, fishes of all kinds, "they are all souls" .

Or, anything that have life with blood = soul.

As long it has life = soul.

[img]http://1.bp..com/-0a3fg-fUWdw/T3On8vGgmVI/AAAAAAAAA4A/PJg-1gRMH5Y/s1600/bunk-the-wire.gif[/img][/quote]i can say samething about your accusing me wrongly.

Smh.

Logicboy03: Ironically, thank god for christians like you who resort to trolling. People like you get other christians to become atheists when they see that you can not defend your position on souls/hell and can only resort to annoying tactics.

Are you sure you are not talking to the wrong guy?

Short memory i guess.

Logicboy03: I go this idea from looking at a picture on reddit;

https://i.imgur.com/LPPLhR0.jpg



Note that there are conjoined twins.

For those who believe in souls from God (which there is no evidence of), you would have to believe that God made a mistake of putting two souls into one body or that the conjoined twins share a soul.

Also then think about hell. If they share a soul or body, how would justice be done if one rejected god and the other accepted god? There is only one soul and so, where would it be put?


If there are two souls, you would then have to accept that god makse mistakes because souls are not a product of eveolution but by god. You would have to accept that god makes mistakes. Now if there are two souls in one body, which soul takes the blame for the body having premarital sex? Or having an abortion?
Do both souls get punished or does one always take the fall? Does it alternate?

Furthermore, you would have to revise your soul theory (for 2 souls) to reduce the soul to be a function of the brain/mind because that is what separates the twins in this case. Furthermore, you would also admit that the soul can leave the body while the body is still alive because one twin might dies still leaving the other alive.

chukwudi44: I don't need to read up anything as I am already conversant with the history of martin luther and the protestant reformation.I still do not see what that has got to do with the compilation of the bible which happened 1100 years before the reformation.

Do you really mean to tell me that peter was actually the first pope of the catholic church yet he was not catholic? Do you reason @ all?

Did not the word "catholic" came up and in use after Apostle Peter had died?

The coining of the word catholic was after the dead of all of christ apostles and the person that coined it was not an apostle.

Reyginus: Truth, you shouldn't bother yourself on how it stands, but on whether it makes sense how it is standing.

I have not even seen it standing, let alone it making sense.