₦airaland Forum

honeric01: Did hr actually lay hands on the apostles? if he did, then who laid hands on the fathers, popes e.t.c that the catholics have?

all the priests in the catholic hurch can trace their ordinations back to the apostles.

The scriptures are clear, all who became ministers after the apostles recieved the laying of hands from them or their successors.


That is how power is transmitted.

urheme: Thou shall not write lies

i didnt....

logicboy01: This is shameful!!


Why would the Airforce higher-ups be behaving like religious extremists forcing their religions on others?



tags; italo Striklymi MrAnony1, ubenedictus, francistony

it isn't fair, but i'm sure if atheist were in power it wont be any different.

Vig86: I think I need help. I have been away from God for a long time which I know but at every attempt that I make to bring myself closer the more far away I go from Him. Seriously, I need somebody to guide me. I am not a thief and I will never steal, I never smoked but within me I know I lack the presence of God. Please help your brother. I hardly go to church. The last time I went to church this year was on 1st of January this year (new year). I tried doing it on my own but NO WAY. I can't even pray but I always beg God for forgiveness. I am a Catholic. This is my pin 289C227A, 07066869898. All I need is advice please don't invite me to any church. Thank you.

my i wish to invite you to the catholic thread on nl, if you have questions i believe it would be answered there.




Now that aside,

i think you should be very happy... I know the place you are in in the spirit doesn't seem like a good place but, i'll say you should rejoice. Many people are nonchanlant when their relationship with God goes south, the fact that you are aware of this means that God is no finished with you and that his grace is still working in your life.

I do not claim to know the full extent of your spiritual state but i can say this, they key to stop "been away from God" is to the near God that is thru prayer.

I hear you say you can't pray... Well for now don't try to "pray", just find a private spot, whether it is your room or a bus or a church, just find a spot and talk to God. I said "don't pray" just talk, if you feel there is something he is doing in your life then thank him, if u know he is doing sumtin but u dont feel thankful about it then don't thank him. Just tell him how you feel.

If you are fraustrated tell him, if you are tired say it, if you feel weak tell him, if you want his presence ask him.... Don't use any prayer you know off hand... Don't use any pattern, don't read from any book, just talk, the scriptures say "cast all you cares (worries) on him for he cares for you".

All you need to do is speak, if u feel like shouting, shout, if u feel u cant talk then say it in your heart....

That is the first step, talk to God.

Tallesty1: Good one pretty face, I was about to tagg you when I saw this comment.

Good morning.

@OP. Should I say that I have been in shoes? I really don't know but being a catholic I was made to belive that the only way I can remain connected 24/7 to good is that I (((MUST))) pray at least twice a day(mostly rosary) serve in church, give offering, observes the holy days , and so many other dos and don'ts. These are all great activities for Christians, but they are not really important.

I'm still a catholic but my relationship with Jesus has changed. It is no longer based on what my church teaches but on my personal experience mostly.

Being a "good Christian" is not about performing certain actions. It is about growing in love for Christ and allowing His Holy Spirit to transform our heart and life. Remember that Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith ( Hebrews 12:2).

Jesus said, "You are my friends if you do what I command" ( John 15:14). And his commandments are simple, Love God completely and everybody even if they treat you wrongly whether you know them or not. Jesus said "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Jesus says in John 13:15, "I have given you an example, that as I have done, so should you do." In I Corinthians 11:1, Paul says, "Imitate me as I imitate Christ." Ephesians 5:1 says, "Be imitators of God as dear children.". It is not easy but it is not impossible.

So what you need to do is to Acknowledge that you have faults and then repent-- change your attitudes and pray. READ and DO what the Bible says. James 1:22 - Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says."

Ephesians 4:24 says "and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness".

Once you invite Christ into your life through prayer then he will certainly help to achieve all these.

Good luck

i am not very happy when i see a carricature of catholic theology.... It seem somebody gave you incomplete teaching. Been a good christian doesn't consist solely in doing thing, the catholic church teaches that much, grace must preceed works, you don't become good because to obeyed some rules, "been good" is a work of divine grace, God himself draws you to participate in his own life, he fills you with a love for him make you grow in that love so that you can manifest the fruits of your salvation, the rules you were taught are the stuff that the love of God in your heart should make you do.

The scripture says love fulfills the law and in another place it say that those who work according to grace fulfil the righteous demand of the law.



Put simply been a good christian does involve
It is about growing in love for Christ and allowing His Holy Spirit to transform our heart and life. Remember that Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith ( Hebrews 12:2).

Jesus said, "You are my friends if you do what I command" ( John 15:14). And his commandments are simple, Love God completely and everybody even if they treat you wrongly whether you know them or not. Jesus said "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Jesus says in John 13:15, "I have given you an example, that as I have done, so should you do."


that which you claim you found by you own personal experience is exactly what the catholic church teaches.

Peace

Apatheist: Calling good christians:
MizMyColi, Frosbel, Striktlymi, Ubenedictus.
Your help is needed.

thanks for tagging me

He made some pretty interesting points.


Gombs i hope you are aware of what scandal does to the church?

What happens to a preacher without moral authority?

babestell: If the OP was getting laid regularly then he won't have strength for this nonsense. Go and marry

good advise.

Demmzy15: Yes according to Saint Augustine, even if he/she is a child!!!

not exactly true, augustine believed that the "unbaptised" infant has no personal sin so God won't send him hell. He also belived that the infant still had a nature of sin so he is unclean for heaven.... Because of these issues augustine believed that God's mercy and compassion will cause the unbaptised infant to arrive at a place of natural joy and happiness, a paradise, only of a lesser glory to those who were in christ. He believed that all will be judged according to their works since the infant has no works it meant a leser glory. He called this state of natural happiness "limbo".


On the issue of an "unbaptised christian". I which to clarify that i believe that it is when we are baptised that we are added into the body of Christ, in essence we become christians when we are baptised, so there is no such thing as an unbaptised christian, the technical term for someone who is trying to practice christianity but isn't yet baptised is "catecumen".
I believe that they may saved by the mercy of God who applies the merits of the death of Christ unto them.

The topic is almost misleading.

honeric01: ^^^

In essence, all true believer can forgive sins. not reserved for any pastor, priest or whatever if we are to go by that verse.

actually that statement was made to the apostle alone, not to all the disciples.

All xtian can't forgive sins, only those who have recieved the laying of hands that can be traced back to the apostles can.

JMAN05: You never interpreted it either. Because what apostle Paul spoke never go against the things that are written.



And I ve answered that query with Matt 13:24-30. I also quote 2Thess 2:6-7.

where are the so called answers?

I dont know what your questions aim to achieve. When you mention the church, dont allow RCC to run into ur head. And dont also view church as if it is a building situated in Rome.

After the apostles who acted as "restraint" against falsehood died out, false teaching unfiltrated the church as Jesus and Paul prophesied. These apostasy has been gaining momentum during the first century, but escalated when the apostles died out.

so the gates of hell prevailed over the church of Christ?

Before then, there were no difference between Elder and Overseer. They all referred to one office. But after the apostles died, the apostates saw opportunity to grow taller. Peter know nothing about Pope you attribute to him, and never did he transfer any Papal authority to anybody. Not to talk of given Pope to another person when one of the 12 was still alive.

you never met peter, you didn't live around his timeline so it is silly to claim you know what he did and didn't do.

Jesus illustration said that 'let the wheat, (true xtians) and the weed, (imitation xtians) grow together until the harvest season - time of the end'.

So most of the teachings the so called apostolic fathers propagate which are not scriptural are fake. Secondly, all of them never taught the same thing. Which leads to my earlier point - We winnow those false teachings with "what is written".

sorry the bible never said we should winnow away apostolic traditions, it says we should hold on to it.

oaroloye: The only important one there is IGNATIUS deLOYOLA.

The Jesuit Order was founded to protect Roman Catholic interests in general, and the Power of the Pope in particular.

The Pope had him summoned to give an account for himself- FOR HIS LIFE.

If he did not like what he heard, the Pope was going to execute him!

This was the sort of people the Roman Catholics were at that time, and have always been.

When Will Blackthorne Adams landed on Japan in 1600, he found that the Jesuits had been entrenched there for about 70 years!

Please go down to your movie rental, or your bookshop, and find the movie and novel: SHOGUN, by James Clavell.

They- the Jesuit Priesthood- tried to have the first Englishman to reach Japan executed by crucifixion, on the accusation that he was a Pirate.

The film did not make it clear until near the end, but the novel tells us from the beginning, that these accusations were more like an understatement! This fellow made Abubakar Shekau look like a Jehovah's Witness selling WATCHTOWER! This was representative of the ANGLICAN Church.

There was no Good-Guy vs Bad Guy in that movie, but Bad Guy vs. Bad Guy.

About five years before Blackthorne arrives in Japan, their government just uncovered a plot by the Roman Catholic Church to invade Japan, overthrow, colonize, and enslave its people, just as they had done in the Americas. The plan failed, and 26 Scapegoats were executed.

These 26 Martyrs are very important to Japanese Culture. They are probably comparable to the 47 Ronin, which is to the Japanese like the story of Jesus and the Twelve Apostles. If you want to understand the Japanese, you must include that story among your studies.

Yet, this factum of history was not included in the movie (and I watched the EIGHT-HOUR version)!

The Jesuits obviously lied their butts off, and basically got away with attempted mass-murder- and then this idiot Englishman came along, and told them about THE TREATY OF ZARAGOSSA! They thought that he was lying!

He was looking at summary execution, until the Abbot in resident confirmed his allegation: that the nice Portuguese they thought were their allies actually regarded them as property!

Unless you see the movie for yourself, and study the history as I have, you would probably never understand why this is so important.

To summarize the entire problem:

The Jesuits have allegedly been expelled from every country in Europe.

I find that hard to believe- because Italy is their headquarters. How could they have been expelled from Italy?

The reason being is that the Jesuits are treacherous seditionists, who work behind scenes to alter the course of history, by undermining governments, toppling heads of State, and setting brother against brother. The greatest example of that is the American Civil War, and the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, and the Second World War, which was a bid to turn the entire World Roman Catholic- wiping out all other versions of Christianity by force.

To participate in this war, the Jesuit Order educated the Japanese in Western Technology, so that they were a match for the Americans, who had gotten out of control.

The Protocols of Zion document, purported to be the minutes of a top level meeting of the Illuminati, operating out of Freemasonry by about 1897, says, that if any nation refuses to yield to their control:

"...we will respond with the Guns of America, or the Guns of China, or the Guns of Japan!"

They were confident that they would always be able to control at least one of those entities, to do their dirty work.

Here then is the part that concerns you and me:

The Jesuits of Ignatius deLoyola educated Japan, so that it was equal to the most advanced European countries.

WHY DID THAT NOT HAPPEN IN AFRICA?

What resources- intellectual, material, or whatever, do the graduates of Roman Catholic Schools in Nigeria lack, that they could not turn Nigeria in particular, and Africa in general, into a technological paradise?

Why, for instance, are there no Roman Catholic Engineers building Power Stations to supply Electric Power to every State, City, Town, and Hamlet? What is it that they do not know, that they cannot do this for us?

I say, that the only tenable explanation is that they were ordered by their popes never to do so.

stop watch too much fiction

BabaGnoni: ^^^
@striktlymi,

https://s29.postimg.org/4ezs7i8qf/God_Guessers_c.jpg,
striktlymi, God is denomination agnostic,
furthermore that Ignatius' "ekklesia katholicos" phrase was hijacked for political and personal gains to mean something else.
- note even Ignatius didn't use "church" but rather assembly for to imply a universal vertical relationship/fellowship with God
- that phrase was first used and found in Chapter 8 of Ignatius' Epistle to the Smyrnaeans

The "ancestry and lineage of the modern day Christian" can be gleaned from the bullet points striktlymi
- I tried as much to fast forward and condensed the "ancestry and lineage"
- They are there and apparent in the bullet points
1) I do not believe Jesus ever founded a church, what I am 100% sure about is that, He said He will build is ekklesia (i.e. Matthew 16:18) and not "church"
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, a small rock
and upon the large rock I will build my congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones},
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her."
- Matthew 16:18 Jubilee Bible 2000
2) Refer to #1 above
3) Well the word "Church", in letter and/or substance, clearly metamorphosed from "ekklesia" striktlymi
- Someone assisted and aided RCC get prominence status

i found it interesting that your write up was picking hairs. The greek word is ecclesia, the roman adopted the word as "ecclesia", "ecclesiam", the word church didn't appear until the 14th century. Ignatius, damascus, constantine didn't declear a "catholic church" the bore witness to a "catholicam ecclesiam".


But is is terrible that according to you, eclesia ended in the first century and church began in the 3rd century...

It took tremendous mental gymnastics to create a false difference where it doesn't exist....


How did you come up with that story?

TheBigUrban2: Mary had original sin.


Go and learn yor catholic doctrine

apply your advise to yourself.

Sarassin: It would be more apt to state that some texts were more readilly accepted than others. 1 and 2 Peter for instance are more "Pauline" in tone and nature, they fit nothing that we know about Peter from better sources. The Apocalypse of John has its own fair share of controversy, as you well know, Eusebius had his own reservations about its apostolic authorship and Jerome outrightly relegated it. It is these controversies that likely led to these works being ciculated slower....

would you like to present the relevant traditions?

frosbel: How can this be ?

- If they died will their spirits not go up to Jesus , why will he come for them ?
- Also they died at different times, did Jesus come for them individually or collectively

soory...
Of What importance are these questions?

Queen concieved without original sin, pray for me.

She marks the dawn of a new creation... Today i celebrate the initiation of a new covenant, today i celebrate the birth of my mother.

Queen concieved without original sin, pray for us.

aaronson: That Niqqa should Shut the F-word Up,He Aint No Saint Neither..Fact has it that the most place where gay p.o.r.n is being view is the vatican!

okogie isn't in the vatican... How come you are condemning the cadinal emeritus of lagos by what you claim happens in the vatican?

emmyskies: That is why I put it in quote because you made mention of 'protestant' churches.

If and only if you know the purpose of our living, and what a church stands for. Well, every man on his own, on the last day, we will know who is who

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11)

i think in the bolded you meant "the Church" not "a church"... The church is founded by Christ himself, on the apostles... So my dear, i think i should be asking you if your "a church" is really founded by christ on the apostles.

So dear when was your "a church" founded?

Ola isn't interested in learning, even after the errors in his op has been addressed he is still reproducing them.


That is just tragic!

JMAN05: No. I didnt say that he and the other so called apostolic fathers were true xtians. In short the titles and clergy-laity distinction the introduced is an indication of what the prophesy says.

Even in the days of the apostles, these apostasy has started. There death served as an open door for more falsehood to creep in. read 2Thess. 2:6-8

Even the so called fathers never taught one thing. There are those who believe one thing that others never believed.

Jesus prophesied about this apostasy at Matt 13:24-30.

Its better then to stick to the Rule: Do not go beyond the things that are written. 1Cor. 4:6.

i'm pretty sure you are misinterpreting that passage.

I'm pretty certain of another rule that says
"hold on to all the traditions you have recieved from us either by letter or by word"



a good question that we have been asking is: what happen to the church that the apostles founded? Did it become extinct?

OLAADEGBU: What gives you the impression that this is referring to the RCC?

the fact that it talks of confession, bishops, eucharist...


Things i'm sure u "church" doesn't have.

texanomaly: Ok



To literally conquer death, and atone for our sins.

the bible seems to say there is an added layer to this, it talks of reconciling man and God and man to man... Making the beliver a heir of the Kingdom a child of GOD thru the spirit of adoption and a brother with Christ.

Do you accept those layers?

Yup



"Some" being the key word.



I take it you don't do sarcasm. I was being facetious.

it is hard to detect sacasm in written form.

Religious relativism is a crock of s***. Like I said:



No...they can't ALL be right. I still think many have "some" truth though.



It is not possible.




I don't know what to believe anymore. Some days I think we are all just fvcked.
Yup

Who knows?

we ar all fvcked doesn't cut it... I think it is irrational and irresponsible to accept been fvcked, knowlegde is within our grasp.... And i think you should try and iron out your thought. It was pretty hard for me to even establish a baseline on what you believe.

texanomaly: Blanket accusations are always inaccurate. I'm sure there are some who are intolerant, but there are many who aren't.

among those who are intolerant will you consider religious teaching as a contributing factor to this intolerance?

I already defined arrogance. Let's try intolerance.


Tolerate:
verb
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

It amazes me how many people think I must agree with them in order to be tolerant.


I really like the quote Scyllapatron posted by Mahatma Gandhi

"I like your Christ, I do not like your chiristians, your christians are so unlike your Christ"

Even though I disagree with including all followers of Christ, I get his gist. Many Christians can be the most hypocritical people on earth.

It is so easy to generalize, and bunch a group of people into what we want to see them as. Especially if we disagree with them some how.



Unfortunately it is human nature to fear what we don't understand. Many of us get so wrapped up in our fear, we begin to hate it. That is where intolerance and arrogance begin to infiltrate our hearts and our minds. It is the point where Christ-like attributes begin to wane, and fear and loathing take over.

The unknown causes fear. Fear causes intolerance. Intolerance causes arrogance.

Maybe this thread should have been titled; Does Ignorance and Stu.pidity cause Religious Intolerance and Arrogance.

interesting take.

Do you think religion may fan those flames of fear?

let me paint a picture not too far from every day life, a good portion of the american population see nothing wrong with abortion, the goverment requires that the employer cover the abortions of their employee (health insurance). This is an idea many christian disagree with. Would you say the Christian should be tolerant in this situation (allow the govt implement this policy even though the christian disagrees)?

The question may seem strange, i'm trying to ask, do you remain tolerant when the issue involves you? Will you allow such policies be implimented even though you disagree?
I realise the picture isn't a good one.

striktlymi: No one can go to hell because of a "little uncontrollable sin". People go to hell because of one or more 'big controllable sins'. No one who sincerely want to serve God and does all that grace permits to avoid sin, will be cast down to eternal banishment.

I suspect you are getting a number of teachings very wrong. God is not like LASMA. He does not prey on the innocence of those he calls children. If God can show mercy and understanding to people who know him not when they unwittingly do wrong, how much more would he not do for those who try sincerely to show him love?

I repeat, it is impossible for one to face eternal condemnation for a sin that is not grave and done without our full consent.

true!

babestell: Stimulating discussion on issues some people are not aware of may not be as fruitful as you wish. It would been nice to start of with a definition, set a context in terms of current realities and then open the floor for discussions. I had to read through all the comments before someone defined relativ in a reply.

Its not a topic am familiar with but from the responses it appears to be something I should be aware of because in my quest to achieve world domination, i will run into situations where my understanding of what it entails to be a relative will help me make the right descisions

sorry don't mind me...
Relativism is about the rejection of absolute Truth and basing truth upon preception.

I'll try and present my questions differently next time.

italo: Yes. I too want to know what happened to that Church!

pastorolu and co, we are still waiting for you guys...
Please answer the question, we have given you some weeks already.

ebenice: Hmmm you must be a catholic fanatic

Have you Read rev 13 vs 11 to 18 you will know better.

But then, just know that the papacy has been compromised and the anti christ is involved it would take just after the rapture to make it a full moon. Just watch out .this is just the begining.. Pope benedict didnt just step down like that, bro, there is more than meet the eye.. Pope francis is the last pope.. Btw i thought st malachy prophecy sumtin similar?

I hope you knw anti christ would rule the world but then it would 1st unite it,to prepare it goal.and the papacy is the best tool. Think abt that

first and foremost, it is insultive and condescending to brand me a "fanatic" simply because i explained the inconsistencies in your op. And to counter your accusation, i certainly am not a fanatic, my thoughts are clear and well within the bounds of the "spiritually rational". I would really appreciate it if you extend the charity i am showing you and desist from calling me names.

Secondly, i have read the book of revelation/apocalyse, and i remember that scriptures say that "the words of prophesy are not subject to personal judgement". For this reason i ask you to be careful when trying to interprete scripture. The beast in that passage encourages others to worship another beast! That my dear is neither the catholic church nor a catholic pope, because the church has unchangeably decleared that adoration is due to GOD alone and anybody who attempts to contradict such teaching is anathema. The catholic church doesn't roll over and change it doctrines, that is the job of the protestant churches.

Thirdly, pope ben retired, that is not the first time a pope retires, benedict had a heart problem, he was already using a pacesetter while a cardinal, the man is over 80, cannot travel right now and hardly walks on his own. He was old and believed that his frailties would prevent him from fulfilling his ministry. Francis is not the last pope, it will be a miracle if he lives another 10yrs, another pope will be elected.
"The prophesy of malachy" is a writting of unknown origin and it certainly didn't say pope francis is the last pope, that writting claimed that the last pope will be "peter the roman" and that the will be a great pope who will rightly pasture the flock.

Pls correct your preception of the pope, calling muslims "brothers" is not a sin or heresy it is just a fact.

Have a nice evening

Yooguyz: The OP just intentionaly mis-interpreted the concept of ecumenism as put forth by Pope Francis.

i thought I alone saw that.


The bible calls God "the father of all" this make all human brothers and sisters, in an interesting way some catholics like fracis of assisi regards the brotherhood as extending to all of creation. Put simply, by creating us, God made us brothers. That isn't heresy, it is fact.


Whether you notice it or not, Islam believes in one God, in the God of abraham, whether they call him olorun or allah(that is what arabic christians call God too) is inconsequensial. They do not have the full revelation of God and neither does the jews.... Neither Judaism or Islam believes the revelation of Jesus Christ but they do believe in one God, almighty, benevolent, compassionate, personal and knowable, all dialogues with muslims must start by admitting that we share these beliefs in common, only then can we address our disagrement.

The catholic church doesn't teach or believe in a one world religion, we belive that it is the duty of christians to engage all other religions in a respectful dialogue. If you teach the truth then it is necessary you do so with respect. That is ecumenism rightly understood.


Lastly the teaching of the catholic church are unchanged and unchangeable. That which was once and for all delivered to the saints, has alway been jealously guarded and well transmitted by the church and all those teaching remain intact to this day.


The op is heavily flawed.

Rich4god: When theologian are discussing, peeps like us will just grab popcorn and watch... Nice topic for dicussion @uben, this is the first am hearing of that word.. Am learning...

there is plenty catholic literature on it...popes thru out the 19th century spent a large time on it an another stuff called "modernism".

I Wanted to stimulate discussion on many points relating to it, but i haven't been online for some days now, i'll read up before asking the next question.