₦airaland Forum

Syncan: hahaha, the scandals just happen to fly away...but under his watch...hahahaha. The last on changing catholic doctrine is entirely yours, you admitted he hasn't taught error earlier.

Syncan: 1. Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).

2. Dear Uben, do not sound like an alarmist, the community lost their right to vetus ordo, but they still have novus ordo, what big deal if the novus ordo is acceptable as well. You make it sound like they were excommunicated or something.

Syncan: You see Sal C, the Pope is the Judge, he has given his judgement in over a case brought to him. It is expected to be "Rome has spoken;and it is final", but no, since it is Pope Francis, the one we are looking at suspiciously based on so many "weed" sown in our hearts, we must question it as if we could do better.

Syncan: The bolded says it all. Methodology may not be the same, even Benedict XVI wasn't clear at all times, nor did the actions of Pope John Paul II palatable to all. Modernism in the church is when gay lobbyists takeover the Vatican and sexually abusive priests are protected, when corruption is the order of the day in the headquarters, When the poor are neglected and the hierarchy frolic with the rich thieves. Look if the vigor used in raising fund for church building is used for aiding St. vincent de paul society for example, we would have had a better church that looks like what Jesus wants. This is the message of the Pope, he does not think it has something to do with which mass you celebrate.

Syncan: I thought you knew where I got my quote, for I never claimed it came from the mortu propio. Those were Pope benedict XVI own letter to the bishops on the occasion of its publication. It is his further clarification to them on its use.

Your claims on the Franciscans is entirely your opinion, based on what bits and pieces of info you've been able to gather; and who you're listening to,You did not see the report of the commission, neither did you see the protest letter from some of her members to Rome which initiated this process(I may be wrong, so correct me). Nipping a problem in the bud is better at all times is my take.

I look at things like this:
“More than 80% of the friars appreciate the intervention of the Church,” Father Alfonso Bruno, a spokesman for the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, told Catholic News Agency.
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/no-rejection-of-benedict-in-franciscans-of-the-immaculate-decree-say-leader#ixzz2pyuslfc3

Syncan: Just to make it clearer. It is not fair to date the tridentine mass back to the 6th Century of Pope Gregory. The mass has undergone revision starting from the first century. The tridentine mass as we know it, is the revision made by Pope Pius V and authorized for the Universal Church (western rite) in 1570. Prior to this, the entire Latin rite did not have a unified form. The tridentine therefore only predates the new one by 4 centuries and not 14.

Syncan: My brother pope, this is exactly what I am talking about. We view this Pope with too much suspicion, here is a pope who has successfully so far helped the image of the catholic church as a religious organization worthy of being called christian. I knew how ashamed I was, before his election, of the Vatican and almost every news that came from there prior to him. Even Pope Benedict XVI felt too embarrassed and overwhelmed by the magnitude of ignominy, yet we now feel we were doing well. He is doing some changes, It may not appear all right at all times, but I am prepared to give him the benefit of doubt I gave his predecessors. I remembered arguing with some Catholics after the election of Benedict XVI, who said he was an anti-pope due to his stand on Fr.Grunner case in the Fatima crusader saga. Today, the actions of same Benedict XVI is now used to Judge Francis...even by same persons (can you beat that?). He is the Pope! Let him work, lets not be so ready to accuse him of working for someone else and not God, the doubt sown in our hearts by the devil is so much that we are losing confidence in the power of God to keep His sheep protected.

Syncan: Now that is your own take on the matter.

Facts arising from your posts.
1. There was a problem in the community with appeals to Rome for intervention.
2. Non of the priest was denied the right to celebrate mass. If all accepted the novus ordo, then they will have no problem celebrating it for now.

3. Their being in full communion was in doubt

4 Is a disciplinary actions taken in line with recommendations made to him.

Do not get me wrong, I had similarly said earlier, his punitive measures may not be palatable to all, but I will blame him more if he had failed to act.

Every action of this pope is scrutinized with suspicion, even actions taken against a small religious order that is in turmoil. Give him a break, his pontificate is no less than his predecessors.

POPE II: This doesn't smell good, this pope should b very cautious with all the media hype surrounding him and talking about modernizing Catholicism, we are not cars and some use embraced Catholicism because of those things. This pope is scary to say the,least. I hope one day he won't wake to Change/remove/add any Canon.

POPE II: This doesn't smell good, this pope should b very cautious with all the media hype surrounding him and talking about modernizing Catholicism, we are not cars and some use embraced Catholicism because of those things. This pope is scary to say the,least. I hope one day he won't wake to Change/remove/add any Canon.

Syncan: Dear Uben, now you sound like the "Pentecostals" when they accuse us of many things in a bid to avoid facts.

"Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books. The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness".

"Already from these concrete presuppositions, it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, not only on account of the juridical norms, but also because of the actual situation of the communities of the faithful".

I hope you know where I got this from.

Syncan: The congregation on the doctrine of faith advices the pope on such matters.
1. There was a problem of dissent in the community.
2. There was investigation done with recommendations made.
All his actions cannot be seen to be right by all and at all times.

kambo: Some tibetan and chinese monks can go for years without an erecti.on. They are not chrstians.
It's self control brother. But you know we dnt really apply ourselves until there's no alternative.
I read in d bible ,in thessalonians and it says self control, but in church you hear prayer,so brothers pray n pray n pray.
The book says self control. So the issue shud b how can a brother learn to exercise his self control cuz prayer aint enuff. But prayr can help but its not enuff.

POPE II: How many Africans will reach 65 sef

Syncan: Though the pope has not made an outright abolishment, but lets look at this anyway.

Question: Is it within the power of the Pope to abolish the vestment? Does none use of these vestment limit grace from God on the people? Note that I am basing it entirely on your submission about the vestments above.



There is a huge difference between can be removed and will be removed. If it can be removed, then it will be removed when the circumstance calls for it.



Exactly. The pope says at 65yrs, you can now say Fr XYZ has served the church profitably enough to be called a papal chamberlain.

Syncan: Uben, lets not say the cart is dragging the horse. Monsignor is a title. Priest are made Vicars and chancellors in dioceses without being monsignors. When Bishop Solomon Amatu in Awka was chancellor, he wasn't a monsignor, when Msgr.Cyprain Onwuli became Vicar in portharcourt, he was just a priest. When Bishop Obinna was appointed, he was just a priest lecturer in the seminary, not a monsignor. If you have any faculty which a priest cannot be given except he is a monsignor, let's know.

Syncan: Those three types were created at some point as Honorary titles. I've seen Bishops selected from priests who aren't monsignors, while those who are monsignors remain. So it's not an important a stage in church hierarchy. If the Pope decides to change the criteria for better focus on clerical duties, no big deal.

Yes they can retire with their monsignor status, it dosen't disturb anything. My point is that a diocese does not need a monsignor for anything. It is a honorary title and can now be for one who has done his duty meritoriously.

Syncan: Whatever extra faculty granted to a monsignor by the bishop, was not because he is a monsignor, but because he is a priest. His monsignor title is by the way. I stand to be corrected.

Syncan: Just about saying this is what i understood. I however did not understand it as abolishing. He raised the age limit, kinda restricting things a little bit from becoming political and prone to abuse. I understand there are three different categories of monsignors and this affects only one.

Yes, we'll continue to pray for Pope Francis, but he's got my aye on this.

babestell: Why?

Pope Francis has reportedly abolished the practice of granting priests the honorary title of "monsignor" and has communicated the decision through Vatican ambassadors around the world.
From now on, only diocesan priests over the age of 65 will be eligible to receive the title, according to a report Saturday at the Italian newspaper La Stampa's website Vatican Insider.

The title monsignor is an honorific of sorts normally granted to priests as a reward for service to the church or as a sign of some special function they serve in church governance. The title had usually been granted by the pope on the recommendation of the priest's local bishop.

Some have criticized the practice, saying it leads to an air of careerism in the church.

The subject of abolishing the monsignor title had been on the pope's mind since at least October, when sources had told NCR it had come up at the first meeting of the Council of Cardinals, the eight member group of cardinals from around the world who are advising the pope on reforming the Vatican bureaucracy.

I like it. Now I hope some of them will return to concentrating on being Priest

POPE II: Did they have any kind of advantages? What about those who were already monsignor ? Do they lose the title ?

Sal C: Let me get this straight, he abolished the use of that title?

woky: @Uben

typing HI or HELLO, won't exhaust your mb naaa