₦airaland Forum

[quote author=The.Big.Urban]At the end of the day, JESUS CAN NOT DIE. GOD CAN NOT DIE.

Jesus did not suffer betrayal. He betrayed himself. How many of us can prophecy betrayal before it happens? Jesus knew that Judas would betray him long before it happened. Jesus is no different from a suicidal maniac who feels and fears nothing from this world. A normal human being would have avoided such betrayal with prior knowledge of it.


What about God in heaven? Only a maniac that doesnt feel suffering or pain would sacrifice his son.




Again, God doesnt understand human suffering or pain. Someone that is said to have flooded and killed the whole earth (barring one family of Noah) just because they displeased him.[/quote]now, trying to convince you will be a waste of time.

Grey Blood: hmm! Thanks.
I asked this 'cause most times I battle more with "my concentration" when praying the rosary; my mind keeps flitting from one thought to another. I've to often times jolt my mind back to the wordings of my prayer, then before I know it, my mind is subtlely veered into other thoughts. It's a continuous challenge.

This mostly happen whenever I say the 10 Hail Marys' of each mystery. I tend to concentrate more while singing them,or in a procession or while in the presence of the terbanacle with pin-drop silence and that kind of benediction-like atmosphere with candlelights.

But I will try going thru the links u provided to work more on maself.

dear welcome to the thread,

your mind will stray unless you put it on something. Try to put it on the mysteries, for instance, the anunciation, as you say the words,think of the lady in nazareth probably doing are chores, visualise the presence of the angel, the greeting, the whole seen, be there in nazareth be a spectator. By the time you have finish say a little prayer and move to the next mysteries.

I think the important question is, does prayer neccesarily and always imply worship?

texanomaly: I have never understood the trinity and have never really believed the concept to be credible. I find your concept much more believable. The bolded is closer to my belief than any other I’ve encountered here.

Do you believe that there is a part of this “essence” or “make-up” in everyone and everything created by God?

i think the divine essence is what makes God, God, and the human essence is what makes man man. If all things inherently posses the divine essence then all things will be God, gods and godesses.

texanomaly: I don't understand what you mean here.







Lol...it just clicked...

it still hasn't clicked for me.

plaetton: Kindly enlighten us sir, in what way did god suffer?
If you are reffering to Jesus as god, then it's both funny and false.

First, assuming , for the purpose of this argument, that Jesus was god incarnate, then the bible clearly shows that Jesus lived a previledged life compared to 98% of humanity at that time, and even today.

Jesus was neither born in slavery,poverty nor ill-health. He never suffered hunger, oppression or a dibilitating illness, as far as the bible tells us.

He had the previlege of an elite education, something that was the exclusive preserve of the top elite of his clan in his time.
For someone who supposedly died at age of 33, when exactly did he suffer like the majority of humankind?

while i'll say not all the circumstances of Jesus' life is written in ink, i'll have to correct the picture you painted above. In the time of Jesus the previlege class were, the kings, the scribes, the teacher, the lawyers, religious leaders and the leading craftmen. Neither the scriptures nor the xtian writtings of the era discribes Jesus among that class. In fact, joseph doesn't have a place in his own home town, he delivered Jesus among animal, he wasn't even a year yet before herod went on a mudering spree and joseph fled with the child, his early infancy was in a foreign land through the desert.
He doesn't even seem to have the elite education you ascribe to his as most parents made sure to teach their kids to read in hebrew. If he was that educated he wouldn't have earned the ridicle of the jewish leaders.

Because he supposedly died on the cross?

Ha ha , big deal.
Give me a break!

Crucifixion was the favored method of execution by the Romans. During one particular rebellion, they reportedly crucified 50,000 rebels and insurgents in Palestine.

In fact, Jesus had it very very easy, because, normally the Romans would crucify rebels and insurgents, break their legs, then leave them for many days to die slowly and painfully. After a few days , dead or alive, they would them feed the bodies to dogs.

But according to the bible, Jesus reported died just a short while after the final nail, without the long suffering faced by other victims.

In addition, he had the unusual previlege of having his body removed for burial.
Isn't that a tad suspicious?
How would Jesus have resurrected if his bones had been broken and his body fed to hungry dogs?
I guess we would never know.

Now, to say that Jesus' supposed quick and wimpy death on the cross constitutes suffering for a god who supposedly came down for the purpose of suffering, is a very big laugh, and an insult to all millions who, according to your bible, suffered in previous eras, the unusually cruel deaths inflicted by a wrathful god,... the very same god.
Big laugh indeed.

so your point is, he came, lived in a palace, ate good food, grew fat and went to a painless death without suffering?

Get serious dear.

texanomaly: I have never understood the trinity and have never really believed the concept to be credible. I find your concept much more believable. The bolded is closer to my belief than any other I’ve encountered here.

Do you believe that there is a part of this “essence” or “make-up” in everyone and everything created by God?

guess this is a quetion for inesQor

InesQor: Lol I don't even half believe I can convince you with any number of words,but I'm glad you like it!

I am fine thanks bro. Hope body dey gbam as well?

My views on trinity are not exactly the Christian views, i think. I will try to explain my view. Christians believe Son, Father and Holy Ghost are God in "role / duty", but I think of it as "essence" or "make-up". I.e. Jesus spirit is entirely made of that God stuff, although his body was 100% human. That same God essence is what he left behind as the Holy Spirit for his believers to be infused in.

Thus, for roles they had entirely different roles: drawing up an enterprise parallel i'll say the father had a kind of project management role, Jesus was a field agent supervisor / direct reporting line, and the Holy Spirit was Human resources (helping you interface with management). Jesus did say there were plans he had no knowledge of that only the Father did, but there were also plans they had together.

My 2 cents.

actually you just described the christian teaching on trinity, probably more exactly than most people.

InesQor: I believe the Christian position is that Jesus BELIEVED and trusted that his Father would not abandon him in the Grave. I.e. there was THAT chance of being abandoned, since God disliked sin so much, so if Jesus embodied sin at that time, the Father could have left him there. This way I think it was a genuine concern, and as much as Jesus said he'd rise on the third day, he was also speaking by faith. And that's why the night before, he had a panic attack and suffered hematidrosis (sweating blood). He was under that much pressure, and was just as afraid as any man - of death. Guy was actually begging God to reconsider the plan.

Being as much God as the Father was, Jesus had legitimate concerns cos he knew just how much God detested anything that had to do with sin. These concerns make Jesus sacrifice as legitimate as any other.

What he had was a promise, just like that of a boy whose father says, "jump from the ship into the boat, I'll catch you". The son trusts the father but he knows the father dislikes water and so the father does not swim. Thus if he should miss, he's done for. That's as legitimate a concern as any other.

interesting explanation, though i disagree.

[quote author=The.Big.Urban]He can not die. He is eternal. He doesnt fear death
Time cant run out from him. He controls time
How can he understand the fear that humans have when faced with death?
God is omnipotent....meaning that he can heal himself....just like how he healed sick people in the bible.
Pain is meaningless to God[/quote]actually many a xtian will use the exact same words above to describe themselves.

Death is not really there, we don't die we transit.

Times doesn't really run out, i've gat an eternity out there.

The trait we admire in God is posible unto us, yet suffering is still a human experience.
God took human nature and walked the human path, probably saw human fears, he did behold it.

texanomaly: I'm curious as to why you think he could not experience suffering as a God?

he think God does not experience suffering as we do, he thinks God only sees suffering, he thinks God isn't really involved in suffering and so God cant feel suffering as we do.

aManFromMars: There seems to be a general confusion about what defines a man among Christians.

In Genesis, we are told that God created man in his own likeness and image. Sin separated us from him and man died spiritually.

Is man the physical form or his 'spirit'?

What I find interesting about this particular doctrine is man was able to survive disconnected from God.


What/who exactly was Jesus? A God masked as a man? Or a man with divine abilities and claims to being God? How could he be God and man at the same time?

Can the 'creator' be contained by a mere physical form?

oh, i have seen the whole "what is a man arguement before.
This is what i believe, man isn't just a "soul", just a soul is a ghost, not man. Neither is he just a body, just a body is a corpse. Man is spirit+body!

I think you read the teaching of original sin wrong, sin destroys man's relationship with God. If i may speak like the xtian philosophers, man injure infinite goodness, he lost his ability to keep a divine-human relationship. That teaching doesn't say God stop loving man, or God stopped thinking about man. (if we define God as infine consciousness, then all in creation are just his thoughts, if he 'forgets' u then u cease to exist) this mean man was still preserved and conserved by God in hope for a better future for him. In hope for a renewed friendship.

FOLYKAZE: Hey dude. . . .those hackers help loose from my trap on that 'catholism, Idolatory' thread. Whats up.

Regarding your post, I will like to simplify it with the fact that there is nothing like knowledge, suffering whatever. . . .it is all illusion.

actually i was still on nl as late as 12am on sunday marwing, i already saw where u were going before you began, i also had my own plan to dent your ideology. Besides i don't think u and makof agree completely in that topic, i had a sweet rebutal prepared for him. Unfortunately when i came back to paste my answers, nl was gone.
I hope to discuss those issues with you again, prolly not as a debate but as an exposition.



That said,

why do you mean by "its an illusion"?

[quote author=The.Big.Urban]nonsense.....how can a God that can never die understand suffering? How can God suffer with us?

Death has no life to take from him
Time has no future to to run out from him

Your God is a philosophical monster. An abomination to human emotions.
A being that fears no death is death himself[/quote]i don't even know where you are coming from and where you are going to, you have manage to rant about nothing.

My God understands suffering not just relatively or according to his omniscience but also personally because 2000yrs ago he too human nature in the person Jesus, lived among men, grieve with them and was sad, was happy and exited, was angry...he felt the full spectrum of human emotion, he also went the spectrum of suffering, he was betrayed by his friends, denied by his disciples ridicled by his people. He went all the way, he experienced our suffering in his own person, he suffered with us.

That is what the christian message says.

aManFromMars: It all depends on if Jesus was man or God. If he was GOD, then he was only just an 'actor' in his story. He never really experienced suffering in the sense that we experience them.

all mainline xtians agree that he is both God and man.

He isn't just an actor, he did take on the nature of man. The was both God and man.

I think d reason u are happy is becos u didnt make the first to comment in page 600.

babestell: I don't even know where to start . All our arguments and discussion gone just like that. It kinda reminds me of when death comes and we have to leave all the unnecessary burdens and cares of this world behind.

But am grateful for the opportunity to have filled 600pages with you guys and am ready to do it all over again


Anyway also help me thank God. He has blessed me and increased my portion greatly. PRAISE THE LORD! !!

weytin God don do 4 u?

londoner: Usually security agents don't arrest with clear cut evidence, they arrest or detain on suspicion. When the arrest can not then be substantiated with fact/evidence, they let the "suspects" go.

If that is not the case, nobody would ever be released, right?

I think the fact that a bomb was discovered is a reason to be extra vigilant, don't you?I disagree with their treatment and the fact that some did not receive all their belongings back.

sorry but this is untrue! You can't go to a judge and tell him you suspect so and so person without any evidence and get an arrest warrant.
No! It doesn't work that way! There must be more than suspicion, there must be circumstantial evidence atleast before an arrest can be made!

Again i think speculative, unsubstatiated, ethnic arrest, arrest signs of vigilance, those are signs of cluelessness, ineffeciency and tribal bigotry.

aManFromMars: Does God feel how we feel?

Does God have faith? Can he experience faith? The travails and trials, the doubts? Does he completely understand the human experience?


If he does, if he understands what it means to hurt, what it means to cry because one feels hopeless, the fear of losing faith, why does he let this all happen?

If God doesn't intervene in man's affairs, what's the point of prayers or even acknowledging him?




Looking forward to a good discussion. I'll contribute what little I can.

i think the whole idea of the incarnation is that God did suffer not just for us but with us.

He knows our suffering becos he experienced it, our doubt, our failings, he came to be with us.

I think paul makes a point in hebrews, "though he was son, he learn obedience through suffering", that experience make him a capable high priest cos he knows our weakness, he can trully be our intercessor.

mmsen: Catholics are not able to see the hypocrisy of which you speak.

They offer prayers to a dead Jewish woman yet are convinced that they do not engage in idolatry.

They pray to saints (they have statues too) and yet they do not see their hypocrisy.

In the same way that those who engage in ancestral worship are convinced that they can communicate with dead people so too are Catholics, some of whom believe that saints are intercessors between themselves and their god.

Of course none of these people have any proof for any of this and thus each belief is as valid as the other...

if not for the loss of data i was hoping this kind of comparism would have ended in the other thread.

londoner: If they are looking for suspected BH men, it makes sense, unfortunately that these men will likely be from the North. That is because of the fact that BH are usually Northerners or is that no longer true?

Especially as a bomb had been discovered earlier, tensions are heightened.

The suicide bomber at the last Abuja Mall bombing was stopped along with many others before him, innocent others.

I agree the conditions they were kept in and maltreatment can not be defended. They should think about legal proceedings though.

so you think it is right to arrest northern travellers without evidence just because a bomb was seen in owerri.

Interesting

londoner: Were all northerners in SE arrested?

Put things into context. It is the 35 hummer buses in one night filled with 400 or so men. Those men had less than N1000 each and could not specify why they were there.

It was not indiscriminate imo.

I'm sure on the same day there were also men coming from the north on commercial buses..............did you hear reports of arrests?

I am against any abuse of people arrested though, but the suspicion was enough to investigate.

hahaha, that isn't even context!

About the same time a bomb was discovered in a church soldiers decided to mount guard on the road connecting the north and the east!

They didn't find an envoy of buses, instead they stopped buses one after the other at different times. And arrested and detained buses whose point of departure were northern states, they kept these people on the road till they were about 400, they tagged them "suspected boko haramist" and reported these to the press. Tell me again that that isn't ethnic? How come all the buses were those from the north?

They kept all these people in one cell, giving them buscuits, moi moi and water for days as those they were refuges. They kept them in ARMY barracks for more than 2 day without trail, is that not against the nigerian constitution?


Sorry my dear, thousands of people travel from different parts of the country on a daily basis, and targeting those travelling from the north and detaining them without any evidence is a ethnic motivated unconstitutional dentention, then tagging them as suspected bokoharamist again without evidence is scandalous.

Subjecting them to inhuman treatment is another thing. Putting 400 people in one room without toilets/urinary or bathrooms is again another thing. These people are nigerian citizen and they deserve to be treated in respect to the constitution.

Beside who told you the men couldn't specify why they were there, the op, described a man who was part of a marriage delegation whose bus was stop and the delegation detained, does that sound like he didn't know the reason for his journey?

Interesting development.

basille: Y'all commenting above me are ignorant mofos, the point of the post is not about if Catholics worship those ornaments or whatever (i honestly don't care if they do). It's about how most Christians condemn traditional worshippers on usage of worship items and ornaments as being evil, whereas they also make use of worship items.

Moral of the post: Anybody is free to practise whatsoever religion that pleases him or her, christianity and traditional worship are no different, so let christians stop the condenmation of TW practises and the 'holier than thou' bs.

learn to value your own indigenous religion not some white-man cooked fiction
P:S i believe in neither of the religions!

the points of the comments is that catholics do not worship those "ornaments" and so no body is permitted to worship idols.

I believe than every man has the GOD GIVEN previlege of following his conscience even in matters of religion, i also believe that each man has the same previlege to spead to others the good he has found, and condemn the percieved evil he sees.

baslone: See riding!!! Chai!! Kwankwaso don dull.

E dey there dey give speech instead of doing the needful.

wat should kwankwaso do?

[quote author=emmy-richie]This is sentiment driven, this won't let the security operatives do their work.
The arrested hausa/fulani people are not the only ones in the east or travelling on that path and won't be.
They were arrested on the ground of suspicion.

What if they were found wanting? Obviously, they were going to be released once the investigation was over and nothing incriminating is found.

This is what you get when the eyes of the mind is blinded by stark sentiment.

I believe this is another factor hindering our gallant soldiers in the north from finishing those bh demons.[/quote]so you think it is right to indiscriminately arrest travellers simply based on their ethnicity and subject them to humanly degrading treatment

mencade5: Na wa oooo. From my observation. Terrorist hides in the mids of hausa/fulani settlements. And they harbour these terrorists without exposing them, . They cant see they dont know the nefarious activities going on around them by these insurgents without noticing it most especially abuja and other affected state.

The truth is there for us to see.

so the solution is to round up all hausa/fulani travellers and put them through humanly degrading treatment?

My dear you have a point, eyeama's positioning was absolutely terible, i watch the freekick again and again. Eyeama set his wall correctly but anyone who watches messi free kick knows that he will attempt to raise it past the wall.

Eyeama went to the absolute end of the goal post, i have never seen a keeper position that far away from the center position.

If he was off the center a bit he would have caught the ball but he was absolutely off the center. His position made him look like an amature keeper.

Don't get me wrong, i respect eyeama, he is one of the best players nigeria have on the pitch, i admire him but that free kick doesn't look right.

I don't know if that is a fixed match because that is a big leap, but the freekick wasn't right.


I also think he fumbled with di maria's shot which lead to the 1st goal.

Eze Promoe: I'm born Anglican but have been to Roman Catholic churches at different occasions but have noticed something worth of observation. Women are not ordained as priests in both churches. I know that there are some other churches that like this e.g Methodist, Baptist and so on. But Anglican and Roman Catholic having the highest membership in Nigeria, still remain our focal point. Why are women not ordained into service? Is it that they aren't capable or what? In Anglican churches and some other protestant churches, I may understand that their priests are permitted to marry, so women via there can still be part of the ministry as priests wives but in the Catholic churches were there Reverend Fathers aren't married how are women being part of the ministerial work? I know that they have the Supreme Mother and also Reverend Sisters but they're just as good as evangelists, I don't think they can run the church service in the absence of the Reverend Father. Don't you think that in this 21st century where the world is changing that some of these customs need to be amended? Look at the Pentecostal Churches for example, I see female pastors and God uses them mightily. Women need to be given the opportunity to answer to the call of God in some of these giant churches.
Still in the spirit of Sunday, no thread derailing. THANKS

first and foremost, the absence of female priest is not a custom and thus can not be amended, it is a doctrine grounded in scripture.

In the old testament God was extremely specific of the priesthood, in ex he says the whole nation of isreal are priests, then he goes futher, he say the ministerial priesthood is reserved for men of the house of levi, and in particular for Aaron and his sons. There is no room for priestess in the scriptures. God wasn't blind to the capabilities of a woman, he was specific on what he wants.
In the new covenant Christ came and chose 12 men and told them "recieve the holyspirit, whoever u forgive are forgiven...", he told them "he who hear you, hears me", he said "do this in memory of me". In all of these cases scripture is very specific that he said this to 12 men, those men laid hand on more men. And no where in the history of christianity are women ordained priest.

the ordination of women is a doctrine of men and has no place in scripture or church history. This doesn't mean that women in the catholic church do not have leadership roles. They do, but the priesthood since time immemorial is reserved for men.

[quote author=stagger911][/quote]i must note that the pic pasted by stagger does not describe a catholic worship.

ifeness: This why i say the bible is evil. If human being are equal,then a woman is equal to a man. Any woman who tolorates this verse of thr bible should think and think again. Why would you let a gay god dictate your lives?

as was pointed out earlier, there is no question of dictatorship, each man has a choice of how to lead his life. Some has make themselve the decided of all, other look to a higher power. There is no dictator, each freely choses and follows his choice.

Actually, the scriptures has little problem with "equality" rightly understood. Actually i believe firmly that God created both man and woman according to his image, in his own likeness and that he endowed them thus with equal dignity.
Also important, i believe that God made a diversity in creation, he moulded for each person a responsibility. Each to his duty and each to his responsibilities, some more firmly than other.

The scriptures not encourage inequality, it instead notes the plan of God in creation, it show that creation and equality doesn't presuppose, entail, incoporate or encourage uniformity.

That man and woman are equal in dignity doesn't mean each must be unform in duty, responsibity and work. Man and woman are equal and different.

striktlymi: True! Reason why it is quite unfortunate. The little 'break' gives one some time to reflect and get some things into perspective.

blessing in disguise.

Hehehe,
these hackers no try at all!
Which kind stupid worm delete this page to 110? I be dey hope say i go be the first to comment in page 1000...

Anyway sha, every disappointment is a blessing, i see striktlymi is back with his old account and prolly some rejevenation.

I hear say some bad pipo no dey again, that is seemingly good news.

Boy-girl damerry i see you and i greet you.


How una dey?

Sal c, woky, kamsi, bluerange, syncan, francistony, all of unaa.

How far?