₦airaland Forum

Madawaki01: If Jesus was
GOD, then why in Mark
12:29 did Jesus say, "Here,
O Israel: The Lord our
God is one Lord." The
words "our God" indicate
that Jesus had a higher
God over him, a stronger
God than him. Jesus didn't
say "Your God". He said
"our God" which includes
Jesus as the creation of
GOD.
-----------

learn to read well please Jesus said "hear o isreal d lord our God..." only a stupid bible student will refuse to notice that Jesus was quote d shema from deut. And used d word as it was written. Jesus doesnt address God as our God he says "your God and my God". Please read well. JESUS created creation, he doesnt equate himself to it

If Jesus was
GOD, then why in John
20:17 did Jesus say, "I
ascend to my God and
your God? This tells us
that we and Jesus have a
common GOD.
Muslim: If Jesus was
GOD, then why in John
14:28 did Jesus say, "My
Father (GOD) is greater
than I"?

i just saw u are a muslim, discussing this issue with u will b futile.

aletheia: Did I lie? The Book of Wisdom is already part of the Roman Catholic Bible. Funny thing is you once were Roman Catholic. Are you now returning to the fold?

u didnt lie, wisdom is considered a book of the bible by roman catholic, eastern catholics, orthodox and oriental christains. In one sentence all the ancient churches consider wisdom as part of scripture and so did all the early church councils that talked about scripture. It was removed along with tobit, 1st and 2nd maccabees, etc. In d 16th century.

frosbel: I was adding a new bible tool to my research collection , and found this book called WISDOM which is not part of the Bible we have , but is one of the Apocrypha Books.

After reading it's content, I think it should have been included in the bible.

It is power packed and ministered to me greatly.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/nrsa/wisdom/1.html

easy! Easy! Easy! Frosbel! Speak for yourself! Wisdom is not part of your bible because luther removed it in the 16th cent and formed what is known today as the protestant bible. If u open any catholic bible u will find the book of wisdom. For me it is part of d bible among the deuterocanonical books.

Seeing truthislight's post, just made me laugh and i decided to write this.
My bible says that in christ dwells the fullness of the deity. In greek the word translated deity mean "the state of being God" or "the nature of God". Now i wish to ask can anything be "fuller" than full? No, that is impossible. And if u agree with scripture that Jesus posses the fullness of the Godhood state, then it follows that no one can posses anything 'fuller', it totally follows that the son has the fullness of the state his father posses. He fada cannot have a "fuller" Godhood state because nothing can be "fuller" than the fullness. By this fact, the fada and son posses the same fullness of the Godhood state, that is why each calls himself the divine title.
To truthislight: incase you dont know christ also calls himself "almighty".
Peace

Truthislight u love jumping up and down and it is really tiring. Wow!

truthislight: yes, you are. Trinity says that "Jesus christ and Yahweh are co-equal, co-eternal, none greater than and none less than another", but that is not what you are saying here since you have come to know that those are all false as such you have to redefine trinity and said that they are equal in digninity, what ?

u didnt make good research, if u did u would have learnt that "equality in the Godhead is because each person has the divine essence". Equality is because dey posses d fulness of d divine nature. Go and make ur research.

Leave trinity alone like Ijawkid told you.

now u are making noise

yes, but this is not the definition of trinity.

sorry friend, u dont know what d trinity is about. Make research.

The bible did not also say that they have equal dignity, that is a lie also.

phi2:6. Even d son asks to be honored as d fada.

this scripture did not say that their dignity is equal.

sorry friend, those wu deserve d same honor has d same dignity. Learn

John 5:22,23 says that the father does no judging at all, that all judging have been committed to the son.
23, say. That the son should be given honour, just as the would have given honour to the father.

what is d honor given to d fada? D honor given to d fada is worship and Jesus said he deserves dat same honor. Learn.

How?
Like a president sending his son to carry out an assignment, he will ask that his son be accorded honour and respect since he is their on the authority of the father.
However, the sons authority/respect/honour/ and dignity is not equal to that of the father.

u are joking right? D fada is called mr president, is d son called d same? No but Jesus is asking for d same honor as is father, d bible says he is God.

So where did you get the equal dignity from?

from d fact dat Jesus asks for d honor due to d fada. He asked for d same honor wow! He also has d fulnes of his father's nature wow! From dat fact i know that he "posses the state that makes him worthy of that honor"

For the Angel, are you better/greater than them?
The Angel have everlasting life but all die.
The Angels are closer to Yahweh but we were separated from Yahweh but for christ that connect us back to Yahweh.

The Angels are more powerful, intelligent and they are all as gods to human.
The Angel are better than humans.
But christ is their leader and greater and mightier than them and he is the one that created all the Angels, this position of christ is so great.

yeah u will tell me again that Jesus is an angel abi? Joke

Christ and the angles including satan and human carry the title god/God.

But are all fingers equal? are all the brightness of the all the same? Are all the sun the same in their glory?
So, then Godship/Godhood is not the same.

human wisdom, God has confounded it. I want to ask u, do angel posses d fulness of d deity?? Answer me.

Christ is mighty God while Yahweh is almighty God.
Peace

u are joking right? Because my bible also calls yahweh mighty God.

ijawkid: Ok I'll leave d pope issue.....I wasn't trying to deride d pope...

I was just trying to show u how the word worship can mean a lot of things other than the way we literally define worship.....that's why I asked you what many normally do when they come in contact with the pope....

Bowing down,prostrating,paying homage and worship all are under that greek word I quoted earlier.....

We all honor Jesus...that's correct...

But did Jesus ask that we give him worship that belongs to the Father to Him(Jesus)??

Jesus always directed his listeners to whom worship should be given to.....

Infact Jesus showed the perfect example by worshipping Yahweh right in front of everybody or eye witnesses....

Showing honour to Jesus is different from rendering worship to Him.......

We can't literally worship Jesus,when Yahweh who is a jealous God is there...that will be tantamount to idolatry.......



Let us allow Jesus do his high priest and mediator job instead of struggling to worship Him...........

The reason why Jesus is our high priest is becasue there is a 1 true God who deserves our exclusive worship....

i remember writing this before, Jesus didnt ask for d honor of a mediator, moses was a mediator and was honored as such. Jesus asked to be honored even as his father. U are stil dodging the issue.

Pastor AIO: http://www.christian-history.org/logos-of-god.html

This link goes into Tertullian's explanation of the Logos.

great link, i certainly donot agree with everything on that site but d guy got d grips of what tertullian explained about the logos.

ijawkid: Hey ube wad up.....

i'm doing great man!

The problem is u guys fail to consider the greek words used and and how exegesis can be made...

I just asked you if u worship the pope.....??

u are trying to divert the discussion again. U have decided to bring in d pope. Face d discussion at hand.

THE MORE YOU GUYS CONTINUE TO worship(rendering exclusive devotion) Jesus as Your GOD instead of Yahweh, the more you guys are relieving Jesus of his office as high priest and mediator....
And you know how deleterious that can be.....
Who is gonna keep pleading for us to Yahweh??
Who will convey our prayers and worship to Yahweh??
You can't give worship that belongs exclusively to Yahweh,to Jesus....
You can't worship Yahwehs appointed high priest and mediator........
That will be tantamount to idolatry...

did Jesus ask for the honor given to mediator? No! He asked for the honor due to the fada. He said he who doesnt give him that honor has also refused to honor the fada. He didnt ask to be honored as a mediator, he asked to be honored as his fada is. And d honor due to his fada is latria.

This is why i always say:::: try to understand what the word ""worship" connotes when mentioned in various parts of the scriptures....

But the trinity won't let you......

u still havent told me why Jesus christ ask to be honored even as the fada? The honor given to d fada is latria, worship. How come Jesus is asking for d honor given to his fada? And u are telling me Jesus doesnt deserve it?
I said it before and im saying again, he has equal dignity with his fada. He posseses d same fulnes of d Godhood state as his fada and he asks for d same honor and respect as his fada.
Peace

Enigma: ^^^ He says the title "Alpha and Omega" is exclusively for God the Father.

When we showed him places in the Bible where the same very title "Alpha and Omega" is used also for Jesus, what does he do?

He covers his eyes with his hands and pretends not to see.

https://www.nairaland.com/1059664/jesus-god-logical-questions-need/3#12400411

Yep, that's exactly what he does.

he loves to dodge.

ijawkid: This is the greek word which the words bow down,obeiscance,pay homage, and worship are coined from...

(pro·sky·ne′o)....

I want u to know that when ever u see the worship it doesn't always mean what u think......

Context should tell u which should be used...

Besides even when the word ""worship "" is used the individual should determine when it means rendering sacred service or exclusive devotion to ones God or when paying homage or bowing down to some1 bestowed with great authority and rulership...........
Now I'll ask you....
Do you worship the pope??

u wish to dodge again abi? oh boy u are seriously outgunned. Or are u also going to tell me that John5 means another thing? What does ur bible say?

truthislight: you are a dishonest fellow.

Maybe that is what it takes to defend the trinity.

u are d dishonest person. Were u blind wen d bible said Jesus has d fulnes of d Godhood state? Or were u blind wen d scriptures said he shuld b worship? Were u also blind wen d bible said he shuld b honor even as his fada? Yet u claim he doest have the state that make him worthy of that honor and respect. Dishonest u are.

truthislight: even though you run to the ground to hide with your trinity you will be found cause it is a lie.

u havent proved anything else

Truth cant hide from the lie but darkness will run when light comes.

Our effort here is because we love you

i love ya all too.

friend, are you redefining trinity?

Be honest, what we are discussing is a matter of life or death, that is if you belive that God exist.

im not redefining anything, but u are arguing points i havent yet made.

No one here is saying that christ has no dignity.

i am saying he deserve equal dignity acording to nature wit his fada.

Can you quote the scripture for your argument so we can share with you and see "the light" you have?

john5:23 "that all may honor d son as they honor d fada."

All human are equal befor the law, and are entitle to be bestowed with a dignity entitle to human.

Another word for dignity is "ones personal pride"

no! No! No! When i talk of dignity im talking about "th state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect" in the case of God i add "worship"

are we saying that christ has no pride?

What are you doing?

Please leave the trinity alone and you will not have to go round like this in your defence of this false doctrine


yes it does,

you are only being dishonest to yourself.

Christ is a spirit and has the glory/dignity of spirit creatures.

as u normally say, u used this to down play d glory of christ. U want to equate him to angels abi?

But paul says that all sun dont have the same glory and all stars dont have the Glory, christ has his glory according to what Yahweh gave to him.

and his father also gave him d fulnes of the Godhood state.

Christ teaching has no resemblance to pegan beliefs that all this pegan nations already have, it is some thing pure and mark out his flowers as being different just as the nation of Israel was different from all the nations around them.
Peace

u havent proved any of ur claims my friend. I have said that Jesus posses accding to nature equal dignity with his father that means that Jesus posses d fulness of dat Godhood state and is worthy of being honored and respected even worshiped as d fada. Jn 5:23.
Peace

I cant get to quote ur comment so i have decided to discuss it nevertheless [quote author=frosbel][/quote]the bible say God alone is to be worshiped, true or false? And the same bible says Jesus should be worship true or false? Frosbel u claim to be logical, i ask u to analyse the above, no man or angel should be worshiped, yet d fada beget a son and d son created everything and d fada says his son should be given d same honor that is given to him. The fada says d son should be worshiped. If Jesus isnt God that means d angels are practicing idolatry. Do u see how u have twisted things? If the angels are worshiping someone wu isnt the true God that means the angels are worshipping a false God. That means d angel are idolatrous. Frosbel analyse.
By the very fact that the fada beget a son that has the fullness of the fada's Godhood state, that mean the son and his fada both posses d fulness of d same nature. Thus d honor given to d fada should also b given to the son, if d fada is worshiped d son must also be worshiped.
You said that power and authority was given to d son by his fada. That is very correct. The son didnt just appear, he was begotten by his fada, d father gave him d divine nature, thus he also gave him power, authority, dominion and soveriengty. That is why Jesus said "all that the fada has is mine" ALL IS MIne, there is nothing the father has that he didnt share with his son, even the throne. Yes i believe and confess d fada as unbegotten, unoriginate, begeter i believe and confess d son as sole begoten, he come from his fada from all eternity. There is nothing contradictory in my arguement.

It seems i have attracted the full calvary welcom frosbel

frosbel: [/quote][quote author=frosbel]

for some reason the quote character didnt work, let me try again i would love to talk abt ur points

ijawkid: Yahweh is not made up of 3 persons....that's a fraud..its pagan.....

Its a lie.....

Yahweh cannot be made up 3 persons and then be greater than himself or more knowledgeble than himself...

Its a fraud....discard that doctrine......

Yahweh is 1 Yahweh not 3 Yahwehs.......

I have quoted the scriptures a million times to prove it.....

I asked you::::::

Jesus worshipped his Father all his life..
Has the Father ever worshipped Jesus??

Has the Father ever received anything from Jesus other than worship that He(yahweh) rightly deserves??

Has Yahweh ever been made subject to his Son....

All I'm saying is::::

What ever Yahweh is to Jesus, Jesus can never be d same to Yahweh.....

Yahweh is Father over Jesus,Jesus can never be Father over Yahweh....

Yahweh is the God of Jesus ,while Jesus can never be the God of Yahweh......

Yahweh is the 0ga kpata kpata.....

Jesus is a slave or servant of Yahweh,Yahweh can and has never being a slave of Jesus...

It seems u barely know who a servant or a slave is....

Jesus is a servant of Yahweh....

now u have started ranting, since we disagree on the use of the name yahweh then i suggest we call the fada as fada and d son as son. Using yahweh to describe d fada only will stagnate d discussion.

obadiah777: THATS HERETIC. NO WHERE IN THE SCRIPTURE IS THAT MENTIONED. SCRIPTURE SAYS ' ONE JUDGEMENT PER LIFE'

u need to read d book of hebrew man, becos it clearly says "it is appointed unto man to die once and after that come judgment".
Read your bible and stop spining heresy.

U are still trying to dodge

ijawkid: We are to pay homage to our master Jesus...

my bible says Jesus was worship, heb say "let the angel worship him" were u blind wen that passage was read.

Didn't u read Jesus's reply to satan??

""It thy Lord your God alone u must worship""

Jesus worshipped Yahweh,so we should do the same.....

Exclusive worship belongs to Yahweh....

Jesus takes our worship to his Father and our Father.....

the bible says Jesus should be worshiped, it says "let the angels worship him" he deserves worship because he is true God. Jesus said the word should honor the son even as they honor the father. Jesus said he shuld be given d same honor as his father.
This is proof that Jesus is God by nature and posseses the "the fullness of the Godhood state" and thus deserve the dignity of worship and Godly honor that follow, dont try to dodge.

Mind u I don't use any adulterated bible......

Open the GOODnews bible and read the footnote attached to hebrews 1:8...

is the footnote part of d text? Did the writer of d book of heb write a footnote? That passage says "thy throne O God is forever and ever", it didnt say "thy throne is divine" as u claim.
Why shuld i read footnotes wen the text is there? Or is d footnote of gudnews part of d text?

But even if u insist on the Kjv u read verse 9 of hebrews says the god that was annointed has a God.....
""That is why GOD thy GOD has annointed you""
Hebrews even exposes the fraud that Jesus is the almighty.....

the bible is clear the fada is father and God of our lord Jesus christ. That he has a fada doesnt make his nature any less Godly, it doesnt lower his Godhood state, because he posseses d fulness of it, not a half portion nor a measure of d fulness, he posseses the whole stuff, the fulness.

And yes I'm claiming Yahweh said ""Ye are GODs""

Yahweh pronounced us Gods....

Abi u no read am for psalms??Jesus even re-iterated Yahwehs statement....

That is why people like OOO olumba and gurumaraji are worshipped......

That is why pharoah was God to the egyptians....

That is why you can be a God if u wanna.....

But the Fact remains:::

The Father and God of Jesus remains the only true God....

He(Yahweh) is Far greater than his son...

No comparison,no equality...

and yet the only begotter of father deserves worship, and the only begotten deserve to be honored even as the father is honored. Are u disputing that?

olaheavy: The cross-worshiping, spook-believing goat, how can somebody be 'the son-of-god' and 'god himself' at the same time? What a confused adherent of a confusing faith!

this is a very stupid question, it is like asking "how can somebody be the son of man, and at d same time man?". Please olaheavy, drop ur heavy so that u will have space to reason.

Reyginus: lol. Am already one. I topped his pharisee class.

i wasnt aware. Is there prize for topping the class? Do you get to were a long white garment with a girdle around ur waist and a turban on ur head?

obadiah777: the REV 21 VS 4 IS ONLY REFERING TO THE ELECT OF BOTH THE JEWS AND GENTILES. not the whole world.

REV 21 VS 8 IS REFERING TO 'PUNISHMENT'. ITS NOT AN ACTUAL LAKE OF FIRE. ITS RETRIBUTION JUSTICE. READ ISAIAH 14 VS 2, JEREMIAH 30 VS 16, DEUTERONOMY 30 VS 7 AND REVELATION 13 VS 10 FOR WHAT THE LAKE OF FIRE ACTUALLY IS

REV 21 VS 27 IS REFERING TO THE LEADERSHIP = HEAVEN. NO UNCLEAN PERSON WILL BE ALLOWED TO RULE AGAIN. DANIELS 7 VS 18 TELLS YOU THE KINGDOM WILL BELONG TO THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH FOREVER AND EVER AND DANIEL 2 VS 44 SAYS IT WILL NOT BE LEFT TO THE GENTILES ANYMORE


REV 22 VS 14 IS REFERING TO LEADERSHIP. 'GATES' IN THE BIBLE MEANS 'LEADERS'. SO TO ENTER THE LEADERSHIP YOU HAVE TO BE CLEAN AND RIGHTEOUS
SEE YOU ERR, UBENEDICTUS, YOU GOTTA GET BACK INTO THAT TWO EDGED SWORD AND LEARN TO DECIPHER IT THE RIGHT WAY

u have started to twist and turn. Nothing unclean will enter d new heaven and earth. Obadiah ur train of thoughts is forcing a different meaning into scripture. Read from scripture dont read into it.
Bye

obadiah777: yall both were pharisees from the past and are still doing the same thing today. there is nothing new under the sun. what you did in past life is what you will keep on doing because the lord has locked yall into that mindset. our era is over now. it is the era of the gentiles. we have been locked into the mindset we had before the world was handed over to the gentiles ( romans 11 vs 11 ). as such what yall was doing 2000 years ago is what yall will be doing today, which is being pharisees. nothing new under the sun

man is destined to die once

ijawkid: What is dignity??

Please define dignity and let's see how to go about this??

U've been using the word dignity....

Define it.......

im quite sure u have a dictionary and that u have heard d term "human dignity". U are trying to divert d discussion.

ijawkid: The bible doesn't support ur claim...

Yahweh was greater than Jesus from the beginning to the end.......

When Jesus went back to heaven Yahweh continued to be his Father and God....

We read that so many times from the scriptures,,,,,,

The greatest thing or responsibility that Jesus was entrusted with(the kingdom) by the Father,Jesus will return it back.....

1 corinthians 15:24-28......

Jesus is no equal with his Father....not before,not when he came to earth,not after his ascension ,and even forever.....

U benidictus do u get that??

u have refused to understand equal dignity accding to nature.

ijawkid: Why doesn't the Son have leadership over the Father or equal with the Father??why??

i already told u that accding to nature they posses equal dignity, that is why Jesus deserve worship and d honor like dat of d fada.

Why should Yahweh always have leadership and authority and Godship over the son??

yahweh, i have told u b4 comprise of 3 persons, so maybe it is time 4 u to start, reconstructing ur sentence.

If Jesus was equal to the Father he wouldn't call the Father ""My Father and My God""

are u kidding? The fact that im equal to my dad in dignity, doesnt make him any less my dad, he is still my dad. And d fact that d fada and son have d fulnes of d same nature makes dem equal in dignity, that doesnt mean d fada is nolonger fada. U are nw making silly arguements.

Jesus would have rather called Yahweh "My brother or My colleague""

Yahweh is the Father and God Jesus.....something that Jesus can never be to Yahweh....

Understand this simple english and break free from the trinity.....

u may want to reconstruct.

ijawkid: The Father calls us Gods too....

Yahweh called and pronounced we humans as Gods ......does that mean we are Yahweh??

did d fada say we should b worshiped?

Has the Father ever called Jesus ""my GOD""??

It seems u have a problem understanding this simple questions.....

Has Yahweh ever worshipped Jesus before??

Has Yahweh ever bowed down to Jesus before just as Jesus does to Yahweh??

Has Yahweh ever called Jesus ""My God""??

Has Yahweh ever received anything from Jesus??
Answer now ...........

u are arguing against urself, i didnt make any of d above claims so i dont have to defend them.

And besides hebrews 1:8 can also be translated ""your throne is divine""

""Your throne is like that of God""

the Jw has decided to manipulate scriptures, im not suprised that u have an adulterated bible. Mine reads:
"your throne, O God is forever and ever"
go and change ur bible.

So back to the question.....

Has Yahweh ever called Jesus ""MY God""

Jesus called Yahweh ""my God"" more than 10 times in the bible......

Ubenidictus u have failed.......

ijawkid, u have created a strawman. Did i say d fada calls d son my God? No i didnt, so i dont need to prove it.
U are claiming that humans are also gods, i want to ask u, do humans deserve worship? Do humans deserve to be honored like d fada? Or do angel deserve worship? Or d angel deserve to d honored as the fada?
Tell me how come Jesus wu u claim to b just a creature deserves worship and the honor due to d fada accding to scripture. Tell me how.

truthislight: this is another lie from you.

Jesus is not all knowing.

He those not know the hours or the day that the father will destroy this world.

Have you seen the way trinity is causing you to lie?

u need to stop cherrypicking scripture and take it as a unified whole, my bible tell me that the fullnes of wisdom and knowledge dwell in christ. Do u wish to twist that too?

truthislight: this part of your lies is what am interested in.

now, Colosians 1:15 says.
He(jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the FIRST born of all creation.

Yes, he is the first among the things that are created, meaning that Jesus christ has a begining.

stop this lies that will cost people their life!

If Vers 16 of that colosians 1 is read it shows the way other things in heaven and on earth came to be and why Jesus is greater than those.

So, this your statement below is LIE.



stop lying!

im not suprised, it seem u lack comprehension, u need a greek lexicon to read scriptures and a dictionary to understand me.

truthislight: now, how truthful is this statement?
Does having the same nature with your father makes you equal to your father in dignity?

The lies you people tell for the sake of the trinity is very large and is very Dangerous..
Yes, the son of a king is a prince and has royalty in him, but that in no way makes him equal to his father, his father remains all and all in the kingdom, the son is under the father.

The son can only attain to his fathers high position when the father dies and he becomes king.

This truth exposes your lies.

But since Yahweh will never die, Jesus will for all eternity remain subject to his father.

The bible says that though he(Jesus) was in God's form he did not desire to be equal to Yahweh like satan did.

Please, change your ways.

^^^
now how true is this statement?
Is the dignity of a prince equal to that of the king or queen?
No

It takes very God liars like this ^^^ to defend the trinity and the bible says LIARS WILL NOT INHERITE GOD'S KINGDOM.
This is how Dangerous the trinity is.

Now, is the dignity of prince charls of England equal to the dignity of his mother the queen? NO.

Please, for your life sake dont miss eternal life because of this trinity.


^^^
please, every body,
that we are all human,
are all human equal in authority and power? NO.

All fingers are not equal they say.

The truth was staring you in the face but trinity blinded you to it.

Among president there are bigger president and we know that.

All angels are gods too.

Jesus is directly created personally by God and that makes him grater than the other Angels since he the prince later became Yahweh's master worker and created the Angles also.

Jesus Godship is higher than that of the Angel's but lesser than that of Yahweh.

Are all person though human equal? NO.

So also all spirit creatures are not , their are hyrachy in heaven for organizational Processes.

That is why when satan traps an Angel on aran to Daniel it took another more powerful Angel to come and freed him.

Pls, note:

liars will not INHERITE the kingdom of God.
Peace

of course truth is light wont let me land b4 he buries me, did u see me argueing abt authority or power yet? No i havent, so restrain urself to my arguement and stop attacking arguements i havent made. In human dignity, all humans are equal, all u need to do to be equal in dignity to d next person is to have d human nature. Becos accding to nature there MUST be equal dignity, that is a fact. Ur prince and king analogy isnt talking about nature. I maintain all wu posses d same nature are equal in dignity. And there i stand, ur post above didnt touch my arguement, u seem to be arguing with urself.

ijawkid: My bro I know its hard for u to let the word ""trinity"" go......

But u have to....

Its pagan and never biblical....

If u believe Yahweh and Christ aren't equal then u gotta let that dogma go....

There are no mysteries concerning how God works....

These facts we are talking about are plain in the bible....

You said Jesus said""I and the Father are one""....

Jesus himself said later that"" we are one with Him and also with his Father""

Patience would have allowed d pharisees wait to hear Jesus explain what oneness meant.....

Jesus explained what oneness means.....

Read john 17 to sEe that......

Like I've been telling ubenidictus.....Jesus is never equal with his Father....never will he....

And I'm happy u agree with that.....

Throw away d word ""trinity""

Its pagan and baseless.....

The verse were u read that "" The father ,son and holy ghost are witnesses in heaven"" is a spurious addition attached to the scriptures from the latin vulgate which ubenidictus's fore -Fathers composed...."Lol....

The God of Jesus Christ is still the same God we worship...

Stick to that....

yeah Jerome translated the vulgate, and those words arent in his works either, so be careful wen u lay blame

ijawkid: I'm happy u know Yahweh is greater than Jesus...

Mr ubenidictus here won't agree...he says they are both equal in every way....

And answer to number
1...I believe Jesus is God...in what sense??in the sense that he is divine(heavenly) and also has been entrusted with power and authority and kingship....you yourself explained it well when u quoted isaiah 9:6.....you gave a perfect explanation why Jesus was called mighty God....
You also gave a good point that if we humans are called Gods by Yahweh,then why not his son......

But like u said Jesus isn't equal with his Father....which makes Yahweh God over Jesus...

2.......And I want u to throw away that word ""trinity"" simply because it contradicts your stance that Jesus isn't equal with his Father....

The trinity teaches that Yahweh and Jesus are co-equal.....and the bible never supports that.....

u have start twisting my words, since d bgining of d arguement i have stick to equal dignity accding to d same nature.

ijawkid: Why does the Father need to say anytin to Jesus in the 1st place if Jesus was equal to Him??

Why does Jesus have to wait to be exalted by the Father??

these sound like rhetorical questions.

What ever Jesus is the Father made him.....

by bgeting the son, the father gave him all.

I only asked if the rest angels are equal with Jesus.....

no!

I know why I asked......

If u know ,which I know u know that Jesus is greater than the angels in heaven and that they aint equal to Jesus because of the platform on which Yahweh has put him, then I wonder why you are stubborn to agree that Yahweh is greater than Jesus......

i remember i told u that i have a different understanding of "greater than".

Its written all over the bible...

Jesus said ""the Father is greater than I""...

and i already xplained, that d fada is greater than him accding to d human nature he took

ijawkid: What do u think the word begotten means....

Define begotten....

Open your dictionary and define the word ""beget""....

Like I said even Yahweh calls we humans Gods..but yahweh can never use the expression "my Godd" when addressing us...


Yahweh never called Jesus " My God"

That's an abomination

i explained this before, the father doesnt call the son "my God" because d son doesnt have monachia or leadership over the father, instead it is the other way round. To beget it to cause to be from ur own substance.