₦airaland Forum

solite3:
[ smh you are obviously confused. Sit down and study the bible.

you need to be bornagain. Nicodemus never understood what Jesus was saying even those he was knowledgable in worldly knowledge.

yeah, we are back to this... when you can't respond to the points raised you do this

clearly it is getting to that time when I'll have to leave you with your doctrines of men.

solite3:
you know nothing about the Christian faith. I bet you
don't know what it means to be bornagain.



. Stop reading your taught into scripture, how can a
righteous man go against righteousness? If a believer
walks in the flesh he can be filled with
unrighteousness,mind you it does not change the
nature of Christ in him neither does it change his
position as a righteous man only there will be a brake in
God's fellowship.




the work of Jesus has been credited to me. I don't
need to anymore work. How had for you to understand.
Good works for a believer is normal. Before you talk
about good works you must be saved. Good works is
just a by product of salvation not a requirement.




how many times will I tell you that a bornagain man is
righteous he partakes of God's righteousness. He is
righteous in deed and in taught this is the effect of
God's righteous nature in him.

1. and I can bet you'll define born again in the same definition invented by the Baptist around the 18th century. You just don't know enough to know you have been shortchanged and given the traditions of men.

2. you think a believer can walk in unrighteousness and the flesh and yet he will still be righteous and be in fellowship with God?
this is what the Bible says.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which
are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry,
sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of
anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying,
drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of
which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned
you, that those who practice such things will not
inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
For this you know with certainty, that no immoral
or impure person or covetous man, who is an
idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of
Christ and God.

such a person is neither in God nor will he inherit the kingdom.


3. so you are using the merits of Jesus as an excuse to not do good works, shame on whoever taught you this abomination. Jesus didn't die so you will not work anymore, he died that you may receive the grace to do work. your justification is to give you grace for works
eph 2:10
For we are His workmanship, having been created in
Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared
beforehand that we should walk in them.

4. again you are confused about the righteousness received by grace, the righteousness we have is not the righteousness God has by nature and thus cannot sin, the righteousness we partake of is that righteousness by which God makes us righteous I.e grace, hence the believer sometimes sins

joshnes:
send the link

I almost continued my post on Calvinist doctrine but since you asked for a link... here is how Calvinist teach it

www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/synod_of_dort.html

brocab:
Uben Martin Luther doesn't call you into the kingdom of God-his just a man, that walked away from your Church, it's not Martin Luther we bow down too. I don't follow Martin Luther, I follow Christ. We already know the answer to you Uben-you don't follow after Christ, you follow after the Pope...
This is the flesh>Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, if you are preferring this to Martin Luther because he walked away from the Church-and you believe Pope Martin Luther caused the Church to pull away-than thank God for that, "I am not complaining...
Martin Luther would have to be a man God called him out of the Catholic Church, Martin Luther must be a man like Moses or a man like Elisha, or John, God calls people all the time, and Martin Luther would have to be a man of faith, studying the scriptures, and learning the truth.
God calls us into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ {1 Corinthians 1:9} Not Martin Luther-not the Pope-it is God who calls. Martin Luther did not stand at the door when I had received Christ into my life.
This is the problem with the Catholic Church-God calls His people out-and the Church blames Martin Luther. Uben because Martin Luther caused fiction within the Catholic Church-does this mean the Pope is the head of the Catholic people, and if he stirs the bowl the wrong way, the Church will rage into immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, and its the Pope's fault...

God doesn't call people to form factions in the Church that isn't the work of the HOLY spirit, it is the work of the flesh a satanic enterprise.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.




how many denominations do you guys now have?

solite3:
Righteousness is not what God declares a man to be? Such blasphemous heresy coming out from you? So if God declares a man righteous, it is you that has the power to declare him unrighteous?
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

read what I said again and this time try not to misquote me.
4. righteousness is not just what we are declared to
be, it is both a gift, and a pattern of life that we must
pursue.
But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue
righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and
gentleness.
do you see how what I wrote isn't even supposed to increase your temperature? righteousness isn't just a declaration it is also a lived reality.

Anyone who does what is right has a righteous nature. Now question which man on earth is righteous?

that is John talking to believers those who have received righteousness as grace they are to continue therein for he who act rightly is righteous even as he is

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Isaia said all your righteous works is filthy rag

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

tell that to the unbelievers

Confession of sin doesn't make you righteous. If a believer sin, it doesn't mean he lost righteousness. Sin actually grieves God, that is why a believer will confess his sin to God personally with any earthly medium because God his is Father.

argue this one with John.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness.

I have no issue with believers living a righteous life for this is the evidence of their new birth but adding works to grace as means to be saved is a lie from the pit.


The believer who is made righteous by grace must live righteously by works and avoid sin that bring forth unrighteousness. I want to say that faith is not a mere confession or a statement of allegiance to do better but a total reliance, hope and assurance on Christ and his finished works accepting God's word.

oh ofcuz you have no problems with believers living a righteous life but you think it's OK and has no consequence when believer live unrighteously abi?
my Bible tells me how God will judge those in grave sins even if they are believers.
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or
greedy person--such a person is an idolater--has any
inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. eph 5;5

so again I reject the invention of Luther and Calvin.

joshnes:
send the link

how wish I could, it is a whole book Calvin wrote termed institutes of Christian religion.

I'm trying to condense his main points and refut them here. I just finished the post on Calvin, I'll start the on addressing tulip

solite3:
@bold if salvation is not by faith alone then, it can not be a gift but by works. You cannot be work for what is given to you as gift. The bible teaches salvation is by grace without human contribution which is the clear definition of faith alone.

Salvation is a gift.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


why blame Calvin/Luther for what is written in the bible in black and white.


I laugh,@ bold you are truly arguing with yourself. A man can be justified by faith apart from works.you have defined faith alone already.

now you seem confused.

a man is justified by faith apart from works and yet that faith cannot be said to be alone because the Bible says elsewhere that an alone faith is a dead faith, in fact it says NOT by faith alone. so what are the other things God wrought in us besides faith?
King James Bible
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is
not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet
hope for?
Romans 8:24

something important that saving faith must move with is hope. if you don't hope to receive what God has promised then sorry you are on your own.

but the metal that even springs faith to life and binds it all together is love.
if I have a faith that
can move mountains, but do not have love, I am
nothing. 1 cor 13.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor
uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that
counts is faith expressing itself through love.
in fact John says If you don't love you are in death. if a man believe but doesn't love nor hope, then his faith alone certainly won't save him. that is why I don't teach a faith that is alone.

you are just dribbling yourself. A man is justified by faith alone, Agreed. Righteousness is also God's work in man that is saved transforming him into the image of Christ. A man is not righteous by trying to live righteous. He is righteous because God has made him righteous just like God himself.

nope, the faith that justifies can't be alone. here is your problem again another dichotomy, righteousness is Gods work of grace in man transforming his to the image of Christ correct!!! but the righteousness is shown in right living that is why John says he who acts rightly (addressing believers) is righteous even as he is righteous.

you can't receive righteousness and claim you are still in that righteousness and not live rightly, that is a contradiction

if Good works cannot save anybody good works condem anybody. If a bornagain believer has good works he will be rewarded. If he doesn't have he will lose his reward but still be saved.

argue that with the HOLY spirit and Paul for they clearly wrote that the doers of evil works are condemned.
Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

solite3:
lol the bible didn't say they were giving grace but talents. You don't know what grace is. The slothful servant obviously had a quarrel with his master, this is one attribute of unreconciled man.
A goat will always refuse to work. What is the work of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
God wants all to believe on his Son.

Anyone who do not put his 100% faith on Christ alone is a goat

lol.

what are those talents if not grace?

the Bible doesn't record a previous quarrel between them all the Bible says it that the servant didn't work with what he had received.

in the passage in question the work is feeding the hungry, clothing the naked...etc. stop cherry picking scriptures.

solite3:
righteousness is worked in that person by God. A man who is bornagain has God Almighty living in him. God is always working in that person. Please this is enough heresy in one post. How does work change the righteousness of God? The righteousness of God is forever.

Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

These two verses reveals that God's righteousness is for ever and that is the type of righteousness brought by Jesus, an everlasting righteousness.
Hope you know the meaning of everlasting righteousness?

as usual you are teaching martin Luther's invention. Luther was confused about the righteousness that belongs to God by nature and that which is ours by grace.
The righteousness of God is an everlasting righteousness because God is righteous by nature thus righteous for ever, the righteousness that Christ brings is everlasting in the sense that it is from age to age and forever. it doesn't mean that any body who is made righteous will never go against it. in fact the Bible clearly says that the believer sometimes falls into unrighteousness and has to be forgiven.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness.

God is righteous by nature and cannot wrought unrighteousness but we who are made righteous by grace can wrought unrighteousness and thus need to be forgiven.

Read up the two verses above and my previous reply. If you claim God declared you just and yet you feel not truely just then you don't believe God, you are still in your sin.

now thank God you said righteousness is given because Jesus merited it. Why will God is demand further merit if Jesus has done all? U are contradicting yourself.

my dear Jesus merit for us the grace by which we are justified, he merited for us the grace also to do good works.

you can't sit in your house and claim that because Jesus merited the grace that justifies then you won't do the good works his he has foreordained.

the work of Jesus is completed, yours is not, get off your ass and go do the works for which he graced you.

Another verse for you, do you know the meaning of a free gift?



righteousness is a nature that reflects outside. When Jesus lives in you, your life radiates his presence. You don't struggle to live a Christ life which is God's definition of a righteous life.

righteousness is not by nature for man, it is by grace. and it is a lived reality.
“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the
cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness;
“by his wounds you have been healed.”

you are just looking for a way to manipulate scripture. Read my posts again and more slowly.



Do you see that it is grace that teaches us to live Godly, and righteously? It is the working of grace that does this.

of course it is grace that not only teach us but also enable us to live Godly lives so that the righteousness we received as Grace is thus a lived reality. not don't-work-you-are-OK you have been preaching.

solite3:
@ bold u think God declaring a sinner righteous is because of the qualification of that sinner? God declares a filthy sinner completely righteous because of what Christ has done not because of any good.quality a sinner has/will possess.


Only in the figment of your imagination. When you said protestant churches, which ones? For your information, when God declares a man just it means he is completely free and righteous. A justified man does not need to start justifying himself again when God has done that.

.

I never said a sinner is justified because of his qualification in fact I said the opposite.

a sinner is justified irrespective of good works, it is based on mercy and Grace.

I mean the whole Protestant movement it is built on something called forensic justification, that is when God declares us righteous he doesn't really make us righteous, he just covers on top our sin with his righteousness.

as they say, they claim the believer is like shit covered with snow.

welcome to your world of Protestantism

solite3:
who are these people? If their teaching agree with scripture, then it is acceptable. Unlike roman catholic tradition that is straight out of hell.

they are the founders of Protestantism and just like you their heir in protestantism they cherry pick scripture and then spin it terribly.

solite3:
I have answered you before.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

here you go again.

does that verse talk about someone who refuses to work? it talks about those whose work are imperfect, it doesn't even talk about those who do evil.

Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

you don't know what it means to be bornagain.

lol.

Goshen360:
Off course justification, righteousness etc are imputed at salvation. ....when we are savED.....because justification is not in continuing tense of the work of God nor righteousness etc

when you say imputed do you mean it in the sense of forensic justification.

justification is not in the continuing tense true, but you still haven't explained in what sense we are being saved.

solite3:
whichever way the slotful servant was a sinner who
pretended to be who he is not.
only those who are bornagain are Christ sheep anyone
who is not bornagain is a goat eg the slothful servant.

nope.

the slothful servant didn't pretend he just refused to use the grace he was given for works.

the goats are those who refused to work simple, the sheep are those in Christ who did that which God wants.

solite3:
I don't know Calvinist teaching but I study the bible which teaches me righteousness by faith alone. Righteousness by faith and works which you are trying to teach is a damnable heresy.

there is nowhere in the Bible that teaches salvation by faith alone. ....the word faith and alone appears just once in the entire Bible and it says "we are not justified by faith alone". so don't tell me you read faith alone in the Bible, there are only two places people here faith alone,

1. in churches that teach the tradition of Calvin/Luther
2. in websites that teach the tradition of Calvin/Luther.


this is what the Bible teaches.

1. that we are saved I.e justified by grace through the merits of Christ received by faith apart from works and thus receive righteousness
2. we are justified that we may perform good works and thus walk in that righteousness we have received so that he who acts rightly is righteous as He is righteous.
3. we are judged in accordance with our works on the day of judgement thus God reward the good works we have done by his Grace here and in heaven.


these are biblical facts

solite3:
the bible never said a believe would be condem
because of his work. Every man will be rewarded base
on his works because works is a product of nature.
Paul was describing the life of a regenerate person he
wasn't saying it as a means to be saved

first of all I never said a person is justified based on his works...in fact you are arguing with yourself,

I said a person will be judged based on works and the Bible is clear on that.
Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

a believer who disobeyed God and practices unrighteousness will go to hell just like a pagan... his faith alone will not save him.

solite3:
so says a man who prefers human traditions to God's
inspired word.

at least I am not the one here teaching the tradition of Calvin and Luther in place of God's words

jeruzi:
There are two ways defined in the scripture in which an unforgivable sin can be committed:

1) Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:
Mark 3:28-30
"Assuredly I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
but he who blashemes against the Holy spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"
because they said, "He has an unclean spirit".
What is this portion of the Scripture telling us;
You do not give the glory of what the Holy Spirit is doing the devil. Jesus was doing miracle and they ascribed it to beelzebub and some othere unclean spirits.

2) Backsliding of a Knowledgable Christian (Generals):
Heb.6:4-6
The kind of person who commits this is one who has an indepth knowledge of Christ and have partaking in heaven gifts and power.
This kind of person knows what is right. Forgive them for they do not know what they do, but this set of people KNOW
So no excuse

ubenedictus

my dear I know people gave and will still give interpretations different from mine.

I have given mine and I did explain clearly why it is so. unfortunately I don't have time for a protracted argument on this.

but still I'll drop this.

many people here are linking the "deadly sin" with another passage that says "unpardonable sin" and I don't believe they are talking about the same thing.

apostle John says if you see someone committing a deadly sin don't go praying for him, he never said the person will never be forgiven, nope, all he says is that when u see such sin don't go thinking just by intercessory prayer the person will be be forgiven as in the case of not deadly sin.


The thrust of the passage is about leading or not leading to death and death in this case is spiritual death, and he already explained earlier that what causes spiritual death is not loving. Paul does list those sins that are so unloving that he says those who do them will meet eternal death and I already quoted that passage.

but again its your choice what you accept. I only responded because u mentioned me.

emperormossad:
That's absolute nonsense. They should take it up abeg. We don't need advisers. We need problem solvers.

laws in the Catholic Church are very slow in changing... I don't see this one changing anytime soon. the Gospel is the primary duty of a priest, politics is seen a distraction

OrestesDante:




∆They'll never tell you how much they paid the abductors.


Though they still have the reason to praise God. ∆

Catholic Church unfortunately doesn't pay ransom

Goshen360:
Salvation was used 3 ways in the bible. We're saved, being saved and will be saved. That's why I keep smh at you when you class me among some Calvin stuff but I don't even know such stuff.

So what salvation does your question deal with?

my question is about being saved

Goshen360:
Salvation was used 3 ways in the bible. We're saved, being saved and will be saved. That's why I keep smh at you when you class me among some Calvin stuff but I don't even know such stuff.

So what salvation does your question deal with?

we are closer than I imagined, I was wrong, I am sorry for lumping u.

there is a salvation no one has talked about, being saved.

I'll also like to hear your opinion on will be saved

Goshen360:
I never taught good works isn't necessary after salvation but good works itself doesn't give one salvation neither does it preserve salvation like the op said. You're first saved and you produce the fruits which are evidence of good works. While we're yet sinners Christ died for us but we some or many of us did good works then, does that mean we're saved or does those good works done while we're sinners guaranteed salvation?

think I get your point and I can agree to a large extent

but let me ask since you used the term salvation all through do you consider sanctification as part of salvation? I.e is salvation a one time event?

joshnes:
what is an elect's salvation?

if you want to understand what an elect salvation means please start reading my Post about Calvin

since I have dropped one line of discussion let me take this up.

Ferisidowu:
Lolz anyways I'd like you to show me the doctrines and the things wrong with it

I'm very sure none of his doctrines are heretic

for the benefit of those who may not understand this line of discussion let me explain.

John Calvin was a Swiss lawyer in the 16th century, King Henry, Martin Luther, Cramer Zwingli and himself are the people mainly responsible for the theological shift that gave birth to Protestantism. in fact he is the father of the brand of theology called reformed theology, if you are a Presbyterian or an Evangelical that preach once saved always saved or a Baptist... then Calvin is your father in theology.

Martin Luther was his predecessor... Martin Luther was a priest who was very scrupulous and his conscience always beat him up...so he said he has found the true gospel while reading the Bible he read d just shall live by faith he understood it to that the only thing needed for salvation is faith or faith alone, sola fide.. he later translated a German Bible and in that passage he actually translated as the just shall live by faith ALONE.in fact he claimed no work was needed, then he added that even though you committed adultery 100 times a day, so far you still had faith the your salvation is secure, so by that belief his conscience stop disturbing him. He decided to share this in the university as the real GOSPEL...well he soon got excommunicated

Calvin was a younger than Luther so he took Luther's teaching and expanded it and since he was a lawyer, he used those skills to smoothen what was a rather rough doctrine... he decided Luther made more sense if you mixed his teaching with predestination.

now you need to understand that Calvin wasn't the first to link predestination and salvation, Paul was d first to do it he said those who God foreknew, he predestined, called, justified...glorified in fact another Christian picked up the topic 400 years later his name was Augustine, he is regarded all through Christendom as an astute theologian but nobody managed to explain theology/soteriology the way Calvin did his was a brand new idea.

Calvin's theology is popularly called TULIP
T for total depravity
u for unconditional predestination
l for limited atonement
I for irresistible grace
p for perseverance of the elect aka once saved always saved.

apart from these he believed that justification was confered in baptism not really through the sinners prayer.

ofcoz he believed the pope was d Antichrist normal
that the formulation of doctrine belonged to the pastor and the laity should submit.
was the first reformer to allow divorce if we don't count king Henry.

but those are small issues the main issue is the tulip
to be continued

Ferisidowu:
alright thanks sir

let me touch this before I kill my ba3.

John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not
leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him
give life to those who commit sin not leading to
death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not
say that he should make request for this.


if any one take a look at this passage the first thing that stands out is that apostle John says"sin leading to death"and sin not leading to death".

those two terms are actually legal terms used in the Jewish synagogue and we know John is Jewish...so we may ask what does that mean?

the Jews divided sins into two categories the distinctions in the Jewish law, where there was
למיתה חטאה chattaah lemithah, "a sin unto death;" and למיתה לא
חטאה chattaah llemithah, "a sin not unto
death;".

literally it means a sins the law prescribed death as the punishment and other were the minor fault that didn't require death.

here I believe that the apostle John likewise is stating a distinction in sin one unto death and the other not leading to death.
death here though is not physical death but spiritual... if we read John we will hear him mention death mainly as that of the spirit example

We know that we have passed from death to life,
because we love each other. Anyone who does not
love remains in death.
1 John 3:14.

in fact in that passage he lays the criteria for been in death... the sin leading to death are those sin characterized by such lack of love that scriptures say those who do them shall not partake in eternal life, st Paul give a list of such sins.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 English Standard Version
(ESV)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will
not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be
deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice
homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy,
nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will
inherit the kingdom of God.

Vikkioshio:
During last Sunday's homily

Catholic?

oziandu:
Last sunday which was Holy Family sunday.....

Catholic too?

maum:
Ah, every time time the homily revolves around home values. He spares no ox, he doesn't sugar-coat the expectations from the two parties involved. He holds family highly, matrimony is a sacrament after all.

so u b Catholic