₦airaland Forum

joshnes:
it wasn't in vain at all, your points made me go and do some mini studies and now I agree with you.

thank God and thank you

it is very rare today to find anyone who would do research on a matter he is arguing about... I have encountered cases instead where people argued ad infinitum until they almost reached insults.

emperormossad:
Then they should move into mainstream politics in Nigeria. We need fearless and uncompromising leaders.

there is a ban in canon law that prevent Catholic priest from taking political position.

they can advice government but can't be in governance

Ferisidowu:
Seeing that the Christian community is a group of believers in God, also since all CHRISTIANS know that the topic before us had, has, and will continue to spark controversies between even well meaning believers.
We affirm basically that no one should discriminate the other, every Christian is allowed to explain his view concerning this HIGH-TOPIC
EVEN we ourselves don't affirm that we know it, we only trust God to help in our endeavors

So back to the topic above


1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

Pls I hereby call all Christian faithfuls to come tell us their views...

No one discriminates the other ..
Views might argued but then ALL KNOWS THAT IT'S ONLY GOD WHO CHANGES PEOPLE..
AT LEAST WE ALL HAVE 1 THING IN COMMON, THAT CHRIST DIED TO SAVE US FROM SIN...

GOD BLESS

mrpresident1 flamingREED julivas enilove salvation101 jiggaz 5solas sciecewatch otr1 mimopel tomhagen didov1
Emmanystone petra1 joagbaje solite3 julivas Goshen360 ken4christ bloodofthelamb jeruzi ichuka

my ba3 is dying, I'll come back 4 this

jeff1607:
We hear of prosperity and the likes, gone are they days when a Sunday would be set aside to talk about issues concerning family values, how parents should handle a situation in the home and marriage , especially for young intending couples.

today,

it was a theme in the homily the priest gave today.

Catholic Church

Ferisidowu:
then not everyone needs Jesus

I didn't teach this, I have never taught this, and God willing I will never teach this.


all who have entered heaven, are entering heaven and will ever enter heaven do so because of the death of Jesus Christ...
where we disagree is how it happens, I believe all who received the gospel entered heaven by Grace through faith... I believe those who couldn't Hear the Gospel some may have been saved, again by God's mercy who because of Jesus did not imput past sin done in ignorance all according to grace in Christ.


we probably disagree on the last part... I will discuss it you wish but I don't believe in salvation outside Jesus.

joshnes:
Uben, your point is crystal clear and I agree with you.

my oga so why you just allow me dey sweat for nothing?

heee!

brocab:
I didn't come to Christ because of Martin Luther, nor because of some Church building, I come because God is faithful He had called me to have fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ.

you may claim not to know Luther but you are his intellectual child, a follower and perpetuator/continuer of his schism

The Church building is all it is, the body is the people of believers who come in as 'one with Christ.

nobody is talking about a church building, we are talking about the body of Christ with its divinely established leadership and its historic salvific teaching, which have been broken down into contradictory sects that can't even agree on who Jesus is. that is what a schism is and that is why the Bible warns against it and even reject it as sinful.

{Galatians 5:19-25}[/colr] Are the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,outbursts of anger, disputes, and those who practices such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the deed of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[color#00099]These are what I search for in a believer, I judge them by their fruit, for if they live according to the flesh they will die, but if by the Spirit you will put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

please quote it completely
gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.
if a believer has put the Church into faction and some other believer are following him then they are walking in the flesh not the spirit.

Not everyone that claims to be Christian, are living according to the Word of God, Christ like! [color=#006600]{So don't let any one tell you that it was the work of the holy spirit unless we see the evidence} {1 John 5:3} In fact for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grieves.
Between the Protestants and the Catholic's, God test us all?

I have see both Catholic and Protestants and it is you Protestants who have fractioned yourself into 30,000 contradictory denominations against the wishes and teachings of the Bible that says there should be no factions.

Did you read about the Parable of the Sower, Jesus identifies the ones who fall away as those who receive the seed of God’s Word with joy, but, as soon as a time of testing comes along, they fall away.
[color=#000099]James says that the testing of our faith develops perseverance, which leads to maturity in our walk with God {James 1:3–4} James goes on to say that testing is a blessing, because, when the testing is over and we have “stood the test,” we will “receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him” {James 1:12}
Testing comes from our heavenly Father who works all things together for good for those who love Him and who are called to be the children of God {Romans 8:28}
When we ask why God tests us or allows us to be tested, we are admitting that testing does indeed come from Him. When God tests His children, He does a valuable thing. David sought God’s testing, asking Him to examine his heart and mind and see that they were true to Him {Psalm 26:2; 139:23} When Abram was tested by God in the matter of sacrificing Isaac, Abram obeyed {Hebrews 11:17–19} and showed to all the world that he is the father of faith {Romans 4:16} In both the Old and New Testaments, the words translated “test” mean “to prove by trial.” Therefore, when God tests His children, His purpose is to prove that our faith is real.
Not that God needs to prove it to Himself since He knows all things, but He is proving to us that our faith is real, that we are truly His children, and that no trial will overcome our faith.
The point I am making here, isn't about a Church building, its the body that needs testing, By their fruit we will know them.. But it doesn't end there, I myself test myself with the Lord, I want to know my walk with Him is done in righteousness.

and yet when you Protestants are tested you fraction into 30,000 fraction just as God says the flesh behave.

"I watch people all the time who claim to be Christian-and to be honest-many of them won't even see the kingdom of Heaven, we just need to turn the page and look a prosperity preacher preaches about Money in tithes and offerings, and the many followers, who call themselves Christians, and are not, What they claim to be, isn't always the truth, it doesn't matter what organisation they are from, their hearts are so far from Him, they don't know Him "And most of them are dried up seeds along the roadside, they are not connected to the vine, and their branches have falling off. "Test yourselves-and ask the Lord where you stand with Him.. [/color]

oh I see people every day who don't live the Christian life but more so I see denominations who are founded in the flesh for they are only contradictory factions

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

Lord have mercy
this is becoming serious, the Catholic Church does not pay ransom for any one... I remember a similar case happened in auchi not too long ago.

the sister was released but by then she had lost sanity.

God help them since our country has failed to do so

noble0:
The school is not owned by Pascal Dozie but by a corporate organisation who are mostly members of Opus Dei, a Catholic institution which is renowned for making billionaires in the name of Christ. Pascal Dozie is only the chancellor of the university and he is only a member of the Opus Dei. There are so many other renowned and rich institutes run by Opus Dei, both in Nigeria and overseas.

who told you the opus dei is about making billionaires in the name of God

paxonel:
lol
All of them including catholic.
White garment is the worst

as usual some people enjoy calling Catholic Church even in issue that doesn't concern Catholic.


give her a bad name so you have an excuse

chubbyz:
I am married to a catholic, my husband allows me to go to my church, but he does not belief in d holy ghost, speaking in tongues or being fervent in the things of God. Its so frustrating sometimes, it kills my spirit, when u want to have quiet time, then he comes with one erand or the other just to distract u!

My advicw it is left for u if u can cope then marry him, if not, wait for ur own. Simple!

if your husband does not belief in the holy spirit, does not believe in his gift and is not fervent in Godly things then he is not a Catholic.

Catholics are bound by a rule of faith that require them to believe both in the holy spirit and in his charism, a good Catholic is fervent in Godly things. if your husband does not believe in the HOLY spirit then he isn't practicing the Catholic faith he is just going to a Catholic Church.

you need to start praying earnestly

Ferisidowu:
lolz the righteousness the elect are justified with is only in Christ, it can't be passed to them, the righteousness they practice no matter how great it is can't justify them.

though of a truth , the holy Spirit give them a better life, they not lawless ...

anyone who wants the righteousness with which he needs to be justified in himself is trying to cast away Christ

and you make this submission without a single scripture that rebut what I have said.


1. The righteousness in which we are justified is truly Christ's righteousness, but it doesn't simply remain in Christ, it is GIVEN TO US, as grace so it is a lie when you say it can't be passed to us.

This righteousness is given through
faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no
difference between Jew and Gentile.
Romans 3:22

that is the simple truth, the righteousness is truly given to the believer and moreso that righteousness mean he will act rightly
Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who
does what is right is righteous, just as He is
righteous.
1 John 3:7


you can't assert anything to the contrary without contradicting scripture and as John says it isn't casting away Christ it is been righteous as he is.

Nuzo1:
Salvation is a gift. It's been worked for. It's totally the work of Christ of which qualifies us for heaven. No extra work needed only if we believe.

Believing involves contrition, confession and conviction. That's why a very sinful man at the death bed can make heaven if just believe.

Working out our salvation is totally a different thing. It is what qualifies us for a reward on earth and most importantly in heaven.

Paul kept emphasizing on working out ones salvation to Philippians who were already saved. He knew that as humans, they are likely to loose the free give of salvation if it's not continually oiled by good works. Nature abhors vacuum.

A man at the death bed who just received Christ has no time to do good or bad works and thereby will easily make heaven. But a man who is fit and accepts Christ is at the danger of loosing his salvation if he does not do good work as empowered by the holy spirit. He will become complacent and will most likely to do bad works by going back to his adamic nature and thereby loosing his salvation. This is where "faith without work is dead" comes to play.

That being said, the reward of man who received the free gift of salvation and stops there is far lower than the reward of a man who who received salvation and went ahead to do good works both on earth and in heaven.

I believe on that in bold we are in agreement.


but I'll take you to task on something else

you speak of works as something extra that is added... on this I disagree. works is not something extra, it is part and parcel of the salvation package, we are justified that we may perform the good works God has foreordained... it is not adding something extra, it is the very thing God expects of the justified

solite3:
in the new testament there are no special ministering
priesthood even in the old testament, the priesthood
was different.
Do a research on roman catholism and you will be
surprised

Paul disagree with you, there is a ministerial priesthood in the new testament and you can't hide from it by using your incorrect KJV.


I have done my research and in this case as in all others Catholicism is right and Protestantism is incorrect.

solite3:
let me post that verse from the KJV
Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus
Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God,
that the offering up of the Gentiles might be
acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Where did paul refer to himself as priest?

again you seem ignorant, the Bible was not written in English and Romans was not authored by king James, it was written by apostle Paul in Greek.

Paul didn't write minister that is the incorrect translation by king James version Paul wrote ἱερουργοῦντα and it is rightly translated as a priestly ministry. that your incorrect Bible is confusing you is not an excuse.
now I'll repost the meaning of ἱερουργοῦντα again and wait for you to show me I'm wrong.

the word translated as priestly service is hierourgeo :
Strong’s Concordance defines it
as “to be a temple-worker , i.e., officiate as a priest
(fig.): --
minister.” This classic (non-Catholic) reference work
states: “to minister in the manner of a priest,
minister in
priestly service.” It also notes (from Joseph Thayer’s
Greek-English Lexicon ) historical etymological
definitions
of “to be busied with sacred things; to be perform
sacred rites” (from Philo), and “used esp. of persons
sacrificing” (from Josephus).
Baptist Greek scholar A. T. Robertson, in his famous
work, Word Pictures of the New Testament
(Nashville,
Tennessee: Broadman Press, 1930; six volumes;
under
Romans 15:16; vol. 4, 520), provides the basic
definition:
“to work in sacred things, to minister as a priest.”
Likewise, Marvin Vincent's Word Studies in the New
Testament (four volumes; New York: Charles
Scribner’s
Sons, 1887; reprinted: Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm.
B.
Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1946; vol. III, 174) states,
for
the same passage:
Ministering ( ierourgounta). Only here in the New
Testament. Lit., ministering as a priest .
Offering up (prosfora ). Lit., the bringing to, i.e., to
the altar. Compare doeth service , John xvi. 2.
Kittel’s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
defines
it as:
‘to perform sacred or sacrificial ministry.’ In
Josephus and Philo it always means “to offer
sacrifice” and often has no object. (hierourgia
means “sacrifice” and hierourgema the “act of
sacrifice.”)

so yes Paul regarded himself as a ministerial priest, deal with it

solite3:
Shm, Israel was a nation of priesthood is applied to the
nation as a whole not individuals.
The only tribe that consists of individual priests were
the Levites and all of them were married.

no the Bible doesn't say Israel is a nation of priesthood, the Bible says Israel is a kingdom of priest... the exact same way in which the Bible says the Church is a kingdom of priest. The term was used in exactly the same way to describe both the Church and Israel. both kingdoms are priestly kingdoms and both kingdoms still had a separate ministerial priesthood along with and serving the kingdom of priest.


on this topic you certainly look uninformed

solite3:
u are confused don't the catholic have priesthood.
And then you wrote these below to support what you
denied.

again you seem confused,

the Catholic Church has priesthood, and it is of two kinds.

1. the priesthood of all believer as recorded in scripture
"a kingdom, priests for his God and
Father."

2. a ministerial priesthood exercised by those who minister to God's people as recorded in scripture

Romans 15:15-17 But on some points I have
written to you very boldly by way of reminder,
because of the grace given me by God [16] to be
a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the
priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the
offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable,
sanctified by the Holy Spirit



you lied when you said
"that is a lie catholic church teaches that only few men
are priest under oath." admit your mistake.

joshnes:
"reward of the inheritance", that is reward of the salvation. There are rewards attached to your works if you're saved. If salvation is a reward, then it can't be an inheritance, you either work for it or not.

you are the person who is creating this dichotomy, the Bible present heaven both as inheritance and reward.

Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.


God repays (reward) with eternal life those who seek glory through good works.

solite3:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is
come into the world, and men loved darkness rather
than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth
my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath
everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to
them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the
flesh, but after the Spirit.
According to the bible there are two resurrection on for
the righteous and the other for the unrighteous.
Jesus said those that believes in him will never be
condemned.
Good works is just the fruit of a saved man.
Good works is not a requirement for salvation (heaven)
It does not improve the grace of God.
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath
quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are
saved
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Grace doesn't need human contribution or
improvement.
It is the totality of the finished work of Christ on the
cross of calvary. Nothing can be added or removed. It
is perfect.

all these simply ignore the fact that faith without works is totally dead and cannot save. Anyone who believes but will not work because he thinks works are unimportant is heading for ruin and eternal damnation because his faith alone will not save him, will not take him to heaven that is exactly how God made it.


he justified us by grace through faith so that we may perform the good works he foreordained for us.

he who will not work does not have saving faith and will certainly not make it to heaven. That is that importance of works.
for those who claim it is not important to work James teaches

faith without works is dead.

Paul says though circumcision is unimportant keeping the commandments and a Working faith is important.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor
uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith
working through love.
gal 5:6

New International Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
2 core 7:19
and John tells us clearly that if your faith doesn't show forth by love then you are spiritually dead

We know that we have passed from death to life,
because we love the brethren. He that loveth not,
abideth in death.
1 John 3:14


anyone who told you that works are unimportant is lying to you and teaching you the invention of Calvin

this is what happen when people read invention of men into scriptures, they end up abusing scriptures just to satisfy their invention.

solite3:
Works cannot condemn a bornagain christian because
he has already been justified by God unless you want
to tell me God will reverse what he has done.
Works will condem unbelievers because their works
proves who they really are. ( rotten sinner).
Good works does not count in salvation.

A slothful servant is a servant that thinks he is doing
something to appease the master because he taught th
master was an hard man. That is a man who is not
saved, a slave
the sheep of Christ are not goats.
Goats are those who are not bornagain.

1.yes works cannot justify but the Bible is clear that judgement is based on works and works can condemn.

Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

2. The slothful servant is not the one trying to appease his Master, the slothful servant is one who doesn't WORK, sloth means unwillingness to work, stop trying to twist it.

3. the parable is clear, goats are those who didn't work even though they had the opportunity. there is no mention of born again there, that passage is clear. the goats are like the slothful servant who refused to work.

solite3:
a man that is justified is already declared righteous,
works does not make him righteous rather it is the
sacrifice of Christ on the cross of Calvary.

one of the lies inherent modern Calvinist teaching is the perchance for creating false dichotomy, you guys always manage to create an either or teaching and the teaching above is an example.

now listen.


Justification is not just a declaration, when God says something he does it, when God declares the believer justified he makes him truly just because God does not declare falsehood. when I became justified God didn't just proclaim me just, he washed away my sins, granted me the merits of Christ's death, the holy spirit, made me His son and in truth I became just.

(this is the first difference BTW historic Christian teachings and the Protestant invention. the Protestants teach that when God justify a person he doesn't really make the person just instead God is only making a declaration).


this righteousness is a lived reality, it isn't just a declaration it is a reality in the believer, God grants this righteousness to us by grace, crediting to our account the merits of Jesus and because righteousness is a reality not merely a declaration, the Bible clearly teaches that what we do in this body affect the righteousness we have received

some like to think that righteousness is some fixed lump that a believer is given that make him always ok with God, no, no. righteousness is that grace not just by which we are declared just but by which we are actually and truly just.

let me explain from scriptures.

1. we are righteous by grace through the merits of Jesus.

This righteousness is given through
faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no
difference between Jew and Gentile.
Romans 3:22
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came
upon all men to condemnation; even so by the
righteousness of one the free gift came upon all
men unto justification of life.

2. after we have received this righteousness we must live for it. it is a lived reality.

[b]“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so
that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by
his wounds you have been healed.”
1 Peter 2:24
3. to live righteously is the opposition of sinful deeds

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath
appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying
ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly,
righteously, and godly, in this present world.
Titus 2:11-12

4. righteousness is not just what we are declared to be, it is both a gift, and a pattern of life that we must pursue.

But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue
righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and
gentleness.

5. such that he who practices righteousness is truly righteous

Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who
does what is right is righteous, just as He is
righteous.
1 John 3:7

6. he who commit sin has lost righteousness and now is in unrighteousness.

However, if righteous people turn from their righteous
behavior and start doing sinful things and act like
other sinners, should they be allowed to live? No, of
course not! All their righteous acts will be forgotten,
and they will die for their sins.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness.
Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of
un righteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto
God, as those that are alive from the dead, and
your members as instruments of righteousness
unto God.[/b]


I can go on and on but this is sufficient the point is made.

the man who received righteousness by faith must continue in it by works for John says The one who
does what is right is righteous, just as He is
righteous and avoid sin which is opposed to and destroys righteousness.

The believer who is made righteous by grace must live righteously by works and avoid sin that bring forth unrighteousness.

Ferisidowu:
Lolz anyways I'd like you to show me the doctrines and the things wrong with it

I'm very sure none of his doctrines are heretic

on this you can begin with the Calvinist doctrine of once saved always saved

.

Oh really, and you can condemn Calvinism ... Yet you claim we are justified by Grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ ..
Now I ask you, is Grace the same as works?

Do all know this Grace, does the Grace move them to believe Jesus..

Are all changed by this Grace?

actually salvation by grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ received by faith in baptism is the historic Christian teaching, Luther simply added alone every where, Calvin mixed predestination into it and the Baptist removed baptism from it.
1. no
2. the Grace that justify is not known to all, it moves to believe.

Lolz no wonder you condemn Calvinism, how can the people contemporary to Abraham have faith in the true God which they never knew, were they not idolaters
Even Abraham was an idolater before God called him, did God call all the people in Abraham's father's house?
Did God commune with people like he did with Abraham?
Could God not send Abraham to go about preaching the gospel to others? Did God do that? So you think God can be resisted like those ARMINIANS OF ARMINIANISM.

MAYBE YOU EVEN ARMINIAN?

again arminianism is another invention. if you think God can't be resisted why does the Bible say in Acts 7:51 Stephen
tells the Sanhedrin, "You always resist the Holy
Spirit!"

And what does this change, people contemporary to Abraham that were not given the Grace will never be justified, even if they have the law in their hearts ... The only means to justification is Christ Jesus

I guess next you'll tell me Abraham also accepted Jesus as personal Lord and saviour.
God passes over sins committed in ignorance. you can't accuse people of the sin of unbelief if you already admitted that they were never preached to.

Lolz now justification is by works, ryt, and also I understand this your point to mean that Christ isn't the ONLY WAY. Since those contemporary to Abraham can be justified by their works, then 1) it's useless that God called Abraham.
2) and also that Christ had not been crucified since the foundation of the world

Can there be eternal life without Jesus?

This verse you quoted is out of justification context

We are saved only by Christ not works.........

Although some people contemporary to Abraham were good yet that doesn't justify them, it's a prove that
The law is written in their hearts...

you are arguing with yourself.

I already told you justification by grace through faith. the verse I quoted is about judgement by works

joshnes:
but a christian can't enter heaven on Christ righteousness alone? He/she must add his own righteousness? What is the difference (if any) in heaven between the man that accepted Jesus on his death bed and the one who worked out his salvation with fear and trembling?

1.2.who said so?

3. both with be in heaven with different levels of glory.

nicemuyoo:
Christian practice were Not open practice, it was secretive . If cut you are either imprisoned or killed.
That was a collection of true believers
When Christianity was legalised as a state religion. Everyone governors, elites, generals, pagan worshippers of Rome became christians. In fact if you want to make it career wise, political field you have to be a Christian.
This new Christianity was not a true one it was Catholicism- a cocktail of pagan worship and Christian faith.
Now what the devil could not achieve by persecuting and killings he achieved by legalizing Christianity and promoting a lukewarm attitude and introducing paganism into the faith.
This strategy was used by balek/ Ballam when it was impossible to curse Isreal. They simple made friends with them, infiltrated them and led them into sin hence the curse and judgement of sin broke out on Isreal.

so if there are false converts in your Church that automatically means the Church is pagan.


sorry that is just a stupid argument.

if the practices and belief of the Church continue, it still is the Church. in fact Jesus was clear that the kingdom of God on earth will have both wheat and tares, bad people does not make a Church pagan.

abeg find a reasonable argument to make

nicemuyoo:
No salaries. What they enjoy is honour and where held in high esteem don't try to monetise their service to Yahweh. People can donate to the when ever they wish no salaries this people were hiding in caves tunnels secretly holding meetings just to fellowship together and you are talking about someone demanding for salary. When people are been fed to lions for being a Christian.
People's blood is been spilt for the sake of the gospel and you are talking of bishop collecting salaries.
Why are you trying to rewrite history when we know that bishop being paid salary only started in the era of pagan roman Catholic Christian era!!
So all out to defend monetise gospel/salvation system that the protesting Catholic churchs of today inherited from pagan Catholicism

please where did I say they were paid salaries?

I said they had I right to eat from the offerings made by the congregation and that is biblical. the Church is to fund their expense. funny enough many priest in the Catholic Church still don't get salaries... their expense is approximated and given as stipend.

Ferisidowu:
alright I Don't know their names, let's even assume that Calvin was an heretic...

answer the questions

OK, happily.

Prosper123:
And defend evil. Study the history of Catholicism and not the doctored one by your papacy. You are the one bemused for defending evil. If we have priests who are married what stops the church from allowing those promiscuous ones from getting married too. Sheepishly defending nonsense. Read 1 Timothy 4:3 where the Bible said that in the latter days men will forbid others from getting married. Anyway I remember you people hardly study the Bible. Check in your bulletin then. It's even recently you people started doing some things like praying in the Holy Ghost or even using the Bible just to cage men in deception. Please don't quote me again. My last statement on this : The catholic church will keep reducing as men find out more in the church. Good bye

1. I have studied the history of Catholicism and till today I thank God for the gift of his Church, I.e the Catholic Church over which he promised the gates of hell will never prevail.
2. he who can't be trusted in little things can't be trusted in big things. if you can't keep the resolve you make for celibacy then you can't be trusted to teach others.
3. if you want to know what it means to forbid marriage read up on cartharism
4. Catholic always pray in the holy spirit. you don't need to speak in tongue or jump up and down to pray in the spirit. I find it funny how Protestant like you complicated the act of prayer.
5. before there were Protestants there were already Catholics read scriptures.

Nodogragra4me:
My question was who crushed the head of the serpent but you still have not being able to divorce Mary from your answer.... The head is Satan's ruler-ship of the world and the only person that did a fatal blow to that was and is Jesus Christ. There is no helping hand anywhere...a vessels, mortal body, was prepared for him through Mary

Mary didn't jointly crush the serpent... It wasn't a tag team fight


NB: I will respond to your other post during the holidays

sorry you seem not to understand scripture. read gen 3:15 again, it was exactly a tag team fight.
God said '' I'll put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and her offspring.

so there is a war with Mary and Jesus on one side and Satan and his offspring on the other side.
Mary said yes to God thus cooperating in the victory of her son.

when Jesus won, his team won, his mother too won.

that is why the Church fathers and I agree

nicemuyoo:
Rome and Christianity

Citation: C N Trueman "Rome And Christianity"
historylearningsite.co.uk. The History Learning Site, 16 Mar 2015. 29 Dec 2017.

Religion was very important to the Romans. Within the Roman Empire, Christianity was banned and Christians were punished for many years. Feeding Christians to the lions was seen as entertainment in Ancient Rome.

A Roman mosaic which is said to be the head of Christ

The message of Christianity was spread around the Roman Empire by St. Paul who founded Christian churches in Asia Minor and Greece. Eventually, he took his teachings to Rome itself.

The early converts to Christianity in Ancient Rome faced many difficulties. The first converts were usually the poor and slaves as they had a great deal to gain from the Christians being successful. If they were caught, they faced death for failing to worship the emperor. It was not uncommon for emperors to turn the people against the Christians when Rome was faced with difficulties. In AD 64, part of Rome was burned down. The Emperor Nero blamed the Christians and the people turned on them. Arrests and executions followed.

“Nero punished a race of men who were hated for their evil practices. These men were called Christians. He got a number of people to confess. On their evidence a number of Christians were convicted and put to death with dreadful cruelty. Some were covered with the skins of wild beasts and left to be eaten by dogs. Others were nailed to the cross. Many were burned alive and set on fire to serve as torches at night.”Tacitus

The dangers faced by the Christians in Rome meant that they had to meet in secret. They usually used underground tombs as these were literally out of sight. Rome had a large number of poor people within its population and Christianity continued to grow. In AD 313, the Emperor Constantine made Christianity legal and for the first time, they were allowed to openly worship. Churches were quickly built not just in Rome but throughout the empire. In AD 391, the worship of other gods was made illegal.
This bishops were Christian leaders along with elders that help coordinate they where not paid salaries or living in luxury. There was no laity/ clergy division.
Until Christianity was merged with mithrism and other religions

bishops were Christian leaders who together with the presbyter led the Church, they weren't paid fixed salaries but as st Paul taught he who works on the altar may it there and even till today many bishops don't live in luxury.

the was always a minister distinct from the laity and these ministers were called bishops, presbyter and deacons.

nicemuyoo:
The capital of roman empire was Rome. Exercising you faith in yahshua was an illegal practice punishable under roman authority( by imprisonment or death)
Then Constantine came with the vision of the cross, pronounced Christianity a legal faith in the whole empire. This christianity was a merger of pagan practice and the true faith.
Everyone became Christians overnight . The nobles, the pagan priest, the politicians, the general etc. This move arched by Satan was so effective that true Christianity spreading like wildfire under persecution quickly when on downward spiral.
It was after the birth of pagan Catholic church that the capital was moved to Constantinople.
“With the adoption of Christianity, the Roman emperors took it on themselves to issue decrees on matters regarding the Christian Church. Unlike the Pontifex Maximus, they did not themselves function as priests, but they acted practically as head of the official religion, a tradition that continued with the Byzantine emperors. In line with the theory of Moscow as the Third Rome, the Russian Tsars exercised supreme authority over the Russian Orthodox Church.”
The queen is the head of the CHURCH OF ENGLAND. They coped this from ancient time. State and church are not separated until recent times.
Now the remnant believers where stamped out over the years by pagan Rome of which a past pope issued an official public apology for. ( drunk with the blood of the saints)

1. the capital of the empire was Rome until about 330 ad when Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople.
2. Constantine made it legal to practice Christian without fear, but nowhere at that time was Christianity mixed with paganism... in fact the opposite is true, the Church of that period was very watchful about any form of paganism or any new inventions and were very quick to condemn any such thing.

the idea that the Church was mixed in paganism is not based on fact, if you read the writing of Christian of that period you'll see how they took care to maintain the faith they have received and reject every new invention and heresy.

it is clear you haven't read the writing of the early Christians you are working on hearsay.

3. Constantine didn't make anyone convert over night in fact during the time of Constantine the pagans were still pagan and worshipped in their temples while the Christian worshipped in their homes, the catacombs and sometimes built a place dedicated for worship.

4. I see you are quoting Wikipedia, you should have continued reading. the title pontifex maximus was already part of the title for emperors when Constantine made Christianity legal so he held the title but he never exercised any priestly ministry in the Church since the Church didn't allow it, but it was still his job to maintain laws that ensure Christians can freely practice their religion, hence he declared the day Christian worshipped to be a public holiday... etc. when Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople Gratian was responsible for the west, he was a Christian and since he knew the emperors can't function as priest he relinquished the title and the bishop of Rome as the primates over the Church used the title.



so Constantinople continued with the emperors and England with kings and Russia with tsars but Rome the Bishop of Rome is the highest religious authority not an emperor and this authority Rome exercised over the entire Church even when persecuted later by emperors who wanted to interfere with the Church.