₦airaland Forum

Hiswordxray:
For your information I have read countless of history books on the early Christians. I have examined and studied ancient documents of early Christianity. I have watched countless of documentaries about early Christianity, I have even written books with contents about early Christianity. I'm not a novice in this area, when I talk about early Christianity I know what I'm saying.

I am not asking about the history books you have read, nor the documentaries made yesterday or the stuff you may or may not have written.


I am asking how many of the Early Christians themselves have you read, how do you teach and practice the faith in the light of how it was always taught and practiced from the beginning .

scantee:
Bro that would be the last option, assuming no single church is remaining on surface...

I know people who used to say this,

some where even Protestant pastors.

now they are Catholics.

NairaMaster1:
The Bible didn't tell you to pay tithe to the poor. You're instructed to give to the poor which is good. Kindly give to the poor but don't call it tithe and advise you to grow in the world and neglect the anti Christian movements. Jesus Christ Loves you

Doerstech:
If you're a Christian you will know the right thing to do.

paying your tithe and giving to the poor are two different things.....

Enough said.

the poor are among those who should be given the tithe


Deuteronomy 26 vs 12.
When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all
your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe,
you shall give it to the Levite, the foreigner, the
fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in
your towns and be satisfied.
Deuteronomy 14 vs 28.
At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes
of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, 29
so that the Levites (who have no allotment or
inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the
fatherless and the widows who live in your towns
may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the
Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your
hands

brocab:
Easy you believe we are to obey both man and God's traditions?
But what does the bible say?

no he believes he must obey the teachings of the apostles whether they came down in writing AKA Bible or taught to the Church in words and later wrote down.


the word of God was never confined to the Bible alone.

Hiswordxray:
Let go back to the very beginning of Christianity. Look at that small group of people faced with annihilation; the most powerful empire threatening to put an end to them. Even there own people, fellow Jews, despised them and wanted to put them to death. Yet we see that community striving until the most hunted religion in the Roman empire becomes the most famous religion.

Soon everybody wanted to be associated with Christianity, they forgot how it started, how many gave their lives for it. But what did the early Christians saw that drove them so mad?...
Follow the link below to read the full article:
http://www.hiswordxray.com/2018/01/what-did-they-saw.html?m=1

I have read people who go about talking about what the early Christians saw and try to speak about them by giving their own interpretations of what the Bible says.

have you ever taken your time to read up what those persecuted Christians believed and taught, what their faith was made up of, what practiced?

have you ever seek out how they understood scriptures OR do you rather interpret scriptures according to your own ideas forgetting it was addressed to people?


sorry to add this conclusion but the testimony of the early Christians makes no meaning to the Protestants of today because they have decided instead to use scriptures as though it is a 16th century document belonging to Martin Luther and co.

I honesty doubt that you aren't one of those people I have described above.

removetheturban:
I did not judge you. I did not make up the phrase 'Babylon the great'. Are you mad that I am using a Bible phrase?

I only said that we came out of Babylon the great. 'Babylon the great' to any Jehovahs Witness is not Roman Catholic, 'it is the world empire of false religion'.

So, do not feel judged. Do you have any feeling of guilt?

my dear don't give me bullshit, I have jw relative they use to send me books and stuff when I was small, in fact I used their publications to learn how to read.

you guys associate the Catholic Church with Babylon the great unless you are a baby jw who started 20 years ago and only met the softer publications u guys do nowadays.


besides let me ask you, who are in this world empire of false religion?

brocab:
Leave Uben alone-we have spoken before you existed, plus Uben isn't teaching, Uben is making a point..
And plus Uben already knows the stories about Peter, Uben doesn't need to be taught by you-plus as time had past I myself have learned a lot from Uben..

don't speak for me.

I have no problem learning from pdozie

brocab, be sincere I have not insulted you, I noted 2 things that you have been misinformed and that your post didn't address what I wrote but simply side stepped it. be sincere

brocab:
This is what I like about you Uben-every time you feel some what beating-you come back at me with the insults, is this the Catholic's mentally, if we can't beat them, destroy them.
This isn't a competition-not every one will agree, but denominations of people that carry a name tag, are denominations in buildings-you call yourself a Catholic-and by your own knowledge you believe every other Church is walking in the flesh-why your Church stands with God Himself, this is the flesh talking, if you were spiritually minded-you wouldn't dare to call yourself religious.
I wonder how you feel, if I said I am a believer in Christ-does this make me a denomination of believers that walk in the flesh, without the building, if I was to call myself a Church name, that doesn't belong to Rome, then I am not walking with the apostle Peter, like the Catholic's do.
Then it must prove, I must be walking with Christ, not Peter, like most believers do, believers without a Church name hanging over them..

if you claim to be a believer and you don't walk with Peter then you aren't a true believer nor are you a member of that Church the Bible speaks about because scriptures clearly teach that the Church is not built on Christ alone but also on the apostles and the Bible says among the apostles Peter is the first.

Therefore you are no longer strangers and
foreigners, but fellow citizens of the saints and
members of God’s household, 20 built on the
foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ
Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. eph 2:19-20



if you wish to truly be in the Church then, you must have Jesus as the corner stone and the apostles must be the foundation.

so yes I am happy to walk in Christ and with Peter because I am in that household built on the apostles not some sect or factions that broke away and is condemned in scriptures.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

PastorOluT:
What's there to dodge in the questions? The only reason I am yet to visit this thread is chance, keep ur mind at rest 'cos I will duly do that as a sincere man.

hello!

pdozie:
You and Jolliano have tried. There is nothing more to add.

The OP is out to disenfranchise the catholic church and not not to have a good argument.

For the ones that say the church did not emanate from Catholic church or that Peter is not the first bishop (pope), I wonder what they think happened when Christ said

"Peter, on this Rock I will build my church....."

If there was only one church before Luther pulled out, which church was that? Redeem? Winners? Mountain of Fire? Chosen?

Benedictus and Jolliano, you guys have said more than enough.

May almighty God have mercy on us all forgive us our sins and lead us to life everlasting....

Amen

ifex370:
Don't get me mistaken.. I still believe in the secret rapture only cos I know my father in heaven won't stand and allow the antichrist destroy his bride on earth.. Its called the day of Gods wrath for a reason.. This horrendous wrath is not supposed to befall any child of God



A bride that he loves and gave his life for..


I know this in my heart, the rapture is a mystery.. But I can't find the words to express it

actually the Bible describes it as part of the will of God to allow Christians suffer for him.

tribulation in a sense is actually good for a believer, the father in heaven stood by and watched 11 of the apostles murdered, then watched Christian persecuted for another 300 years, he has no problem watching the martyrdom of his people. because by their blood they bear witness to Christ.

the Church will experience the time of tribulation and many will be killed, the Bible is clear on rapture, it will happen on the last day not before the tribulations.


and as the op stated the doctrine of rapture was invented by men 200 years ago

AkunnaTochi:
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus sancti. Amen.

Amen

removetheturban:
I do not call Catholicism bad. I have friends and family relatives who are Catholics. I am only talking about some doctrines that are not in concordance with the Bible. I didn't mention Catholicism. I said that we came out of Babylon the great. Do not feel judged as a Catholic. My job is not to judge any religion, but to preach the message of God. I only refute doctrines that I am not agreeable with.

you just called a group of people and their belief Babylon the great, yet you still say you don't think Catholicism is bad?

misu:
Just run acrosss a similar topic on this site while trying to find a BIBLICAL solution to a somehow similar situation:

I (father) am asking for our 3 months old son to be openly /publicly dedicated alongside four other families, in another evangelical church, NOT in our church where we are members yet have a "nightmare fellowship" with leaders and lots of other families. The new church´s answer was that we should first adress the issue to our local leadership, and /OR perhaps (...) they would take in consideration to have a private prayer but not in their regular service with other families. Or, perhaps later, after few weeks until they will decide in their Council ....but the pastor is reluctant to do it.

Is there an obligation for pastors to "bless" children from families that are not on his membership? Can he refuse to do it on biblical bases?
I thought they should do it for any kind of children ---they are not wearing father´s sins, dont they?

We know that no children is "guilty", but how does this relate with the eclesiology policy between different churches?
Much help needed it indeed.

it is just internal Church rules...

for instance a Catholic priest will dedicate ur baby if you like but will not baptise him unless a Catholic from ur family stands for training him in the faith.

this one is just Church rules, why not dedicate ur baby in your Church?

Evangelical believe in a kind of priesthood for all believer that says u are equal to your pastor, if he doesn't agree do it yourself and bless your child with your own words.

ifex370:
Honestly, its kind of hard for me to argue, because I'm kind of confused right now too..


But what do you stand to gain if the secret rapture doesn't happen?

Won't you rather pray for a secret rapture to save yourself from the day of Gods Wrath and the period of the antichrists rule?

I don't deal with sentimentalism when it comes to scripture.
the Bible is clear, some people are afraid and want to run away from tribulation so they start misinterpreting the Bible to suit their fancy.

I don't believe in twisting scriptures because someone doesn't have courage to stand for God.

ifex370:
So when is the last day?


And why does Daniel chapter 12 1-3, talk about a time of great tribulation and then God rescuing his people

oya read well


Daniel 12:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the
great prince which standeth for the children of thy
people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such
as never was since there was a nation even to that
same time: and at that time thy people shall be
delivered, every one that shall be found written in
the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the
earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and
some to shame and everlasting contempt.
And they that be wise shall shine as the
brightness of the firmament; and they that turn
many to righteousness as the stars for ever and
ever.


and you see the bold, it talks about when the dead will rise and the righteous will has everlasting life while d wicked to everlasting shame. it talks about when the book of life will be opened.

that is the last day, the day of judgement

Princessjoke:
To my understanding Muslim women don't fast when they are menstruating.... Pls does it also applies to Christian ladies....
Looking forward to your answers

in Christianity you can fast whenever u want to. just make sure you don't injure your health

Ishilove:
I thought we are the ones complicating matters for ourselves. I thought we worship one God, or is the Catholic God different from Pentecostal God?

anyone who is sincere will note that Catholic Church is actually more ecumenical than most. this isn't a issue of whether people serve the same God, it is about difference in belief.

if you get baptised in a Baptist Church they will teach you it is only a mere symbol, if you go to a Lutheran Church they will tell u it is a sacrament and very important for salvation.

if you go for communion in ur average Protestant Church it is just a symbol and after they will start playing with the biscuit, in Orthodox it is the real body and blood of Jesus and you dear not try play with it, in fact if you aren't Orthodox u won't receive it.

these are serious difference in belief.

in the Catholic Church marriage isn't just a contract it is a sacrament, the same with Orthodox but not for Protestants... these doctrinal differences causes difference in practices

ifex370:
Oh so the people of God will be here on earth during the period of Jacobs trouble 7 years tribulation, that's what you're saying?

exactly,

the Bible clearly says rapture will happen on the last day not before the tribulation

Meti99:
I am discouraged by all the baby answers given on the front page.
It is certain freeze is an ignorant fool who only wants recognition and relevancy by all means..



The question I will ask freeze is "what is doctrine?"
No church, I repeat no church whether Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, is different in doctrine..

oya tell us what is doctrine and show us say dem no different

ifex370:
If you read the post, you'll see where the op clearly admitted the word itself is biblical from 1 Thessalonians.. Meaning snatching away or caught UP..

The op is contradicting himself

that a word is used in the Bible doesn't mean people understand it correctly.


the Bible says some will be caught up to heaven on the last day when the trumpet blows

it doesn't say they will be caught up before the Antichrist, like pastors preach today.

as usual you enjoy writing long articles to side step an issue.

brocab:
Uben Church buildings that carry any sort of name are classed as denominations, as we know, I don't fit into any denomination buildings that carry's a name, having my own opinion, I believe I can't find Christ in either of these names, If the Catholic Church belonged to Christ-then I am sure all the apostles would come together and had fellowship in the Catholic Church-but there's no evidence of that? The problem is, Rome never fully agreed on Christianity alone, Constantine's decision expected his god's, to be treated, worshipped together with the One true God, at the same time? God's a jealous God, He don't mix Himself in sin..
This argument between Churches Uben is a competition, people in all sizes, from different parts of the world, have always taken upon themselves someone else is better then the other, Jesus calls the people-not Church buildings, "the fruit of the Church buildings are-We either have the one, and not the other, or we will either hate the one, and love the other! {Galatians 3:28} And this is the fruit of Christ-we are all equal in Christ.
I don't have any dealt about the Catholic Church to agree on one accord, and visa verse with any Church, flesh brings {Galatians 5:19} into existence.
If we were to focus on Christ instead of which Church was built first, then we wouldn't care for the things of this world.
Uben I don't see a Church building-as the body of Christ-there are all names written on buildings, but in Christ His name is written on our hearts, there's no other name, above, on Earth or under the Earth, that could separate His name within.
Rome has a lot of history with paganism, and the Catholic Church have a strong hold over their people, and in this day and age-Statues are still standing in every corner-to remind you God exist! I could walk into any Church and find none, but if I was to look at the people, what will I find? I would see-many of them wearing idolising crosses around their necks, or something that simulates Christ, Christian book stores are full of idolising artifacts, stickers, bracelets, crosses, statues, pictures of the above about God-the bible states-do not make any graving images, above, on Earth or under the Earth.
{So if you were to think about it, this way--Uben the people haven't left the Catholic Church, they are not attending the Catholic Church-the Catholic Church is still in them, these people are missionaries, reaching out, spreading Catholicism throughout the world} And don't look at this the wrong way-but anybody you see-that carries or wears-anything to remind them God exist-are Catholic's born and bread throughout..
Uben I don't look at the Church building, I look for the fruit in people, without judging anybody-I know if Christ is working in their lives, I would see changes in people-because God never finishes His work once He had started, but if I seen people in Christ not changing in Him, then these are the people still in the flesh, they don't know God, nor does He know them.
Buildings are used to bring people together under one accord, when Christ builds His only Church-He is preferring to His people, and He is building, molding and sharping His people to be more like Him. This is the Church Christ is building-we stand as the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are His true Church, we are His bride.
{Matthew 20:16} So the last shall become first, and the first last, for many be called but few are chosen.

though out my post I never talked about buildings, I am talking about groups of people, sects called denominations not buildings.


those denominations are as the Bible says a manifestation of the flesh.


as usual you've got your history upside down.


may God help you and free you of your misinformation.

Ferisidowu:
hmm beautiful,, well since you know what an elect is, go sort it out.

this is an interesting way to not answer a question.

are you one of the elect?

Ferisidowu:
lolz Mr ubenedictus

you are just labelling me all sort of things I checked the meaning of semi pelagianism now, and it shows that they don't accept the doctrine of total depravity ....

I teach total depravity... so why label me a semi pelagian?

Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint
human nature and that mortal will is still capable of
choosing good or evil without special divine aid.

you just told me that some people do good work without grace that is a half part of the heresy of pelagius condemned by the council of Carthage and Orange.

you believe original sin taints human nature, you believe we can't be saved without grace.... which is correct but you and pelagius agree that humans can do good works and chose good without God. that is semi pelagainism I.e holding a part of his condemned teaching.

you guys need to read past the 15th century

Ferisidowu:
alright answer my elect question

I skipped your question on purpose, I asked you a question then you turned it around and asked me the same question.


if you don't wish to answer it is OK, but I won't answer my own question.

From a discourse Against the Pagans by Saint Athanasius, bishop
The word of the Father gives order, direction and unity to creation
By his own wisdom and Word, who is our Lord and Saviour Christ, the all-holy Father (whose excellence far exceeds that of any creature), like a skilful steersman guides to safety all creation, regulating and keeping it in being, as he judges right. It is right that creation should exist as he has made it and as we see it happening, because this is his will, which no one would deny. For if the movement of the universe were irrational, and the world rolled on in random fashion, one would be justified in disbelieving what we say. But if the world is founded on reason, wisdom and science, and is filled with orderly beauty, then it must owe its origin and order to none other than the Word of God.
He is God, the living and creative God of the universe, the word of the good God, who is God in his own right. The Word is different from all created things: he is the unique Word belonging only to the good Father. This is the Word that created this whole world and enlightens it by his loving wisdom. He who is the good Word of the good Father produced the order in all creation, joining opposites together, and forming from them one harmonious sound. He is God, one and only-begotten, who proceeds in goodness from the Father as from the fountain of goodness, and gives order, direction and unity to creation.
By his eternal Word the Father created all things and implanted a nature in his creatures. He did not want to see them tossed about at the mercy of their own natures, and so be reduced to nothingness. But in his goodness he governs and sustains the whole of nature by his Word (who is himself also God), so that under the guidance, providence and ordering of that Word, the whole of nature might remain stable and coherent in his light. Nature was to share in the Father’s Word, whose reality is true, and be helped by him to exist, for without him it would cease to be. For unless the Word, who is the very “image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation,” kept it in existence it could not exist. For whatever exists, whether visible or invisible, remains in existence through him and in him, and he is also the head of the Church, as we are taught by the ministers of truth in their sacred writings.
The almighty and most holy Word of the Father pervades the whole of reality, everywhere unfolding his power and shining on all things visible and invisible. He sustains it all and binds it all together in himself. He leaves nothing devoid of his power but gives life and keeps it in being throughout all of creation and in each individual creature.