₦airaland Forum

nicemuyoo:
When you say bishop of Rome before Christianity ( Catholicism) became official religion which religion was the bishop of rome under

before Christianity became an official religion there were Bishops of Rome many of whom were killed especially when Christianity was persecuted.

the early Christian named the bishops of Rome

petra1:
The people said , his father was Joseph ,his mother ,Mary ,his brothers james and co . His sisters bla bla . You are telling us they were not his direct brothers without any evidedenc or proof .

the Bible clearly shows in other passages who gave birth to those kids and how they relate to Jesus but you rejected it even when syncan showed it to you.

for me the faith of the entire Church for 1700 years is all the proof I need.,

Prosper123:
I know. We Igbos and Catholicism. Go on and defend evil. Give the Priest another standing ovation. Who cares. I speak the truth no matter what. The other time I posted about Adeboye using wooden staff to pray. I don't pamper evil. Even if it happened in my room. That's the difference between us both. Eeh? Go on. Die for catholic. I don't give a bleep. Afterall you will see how you have failed yourselves. Evil continues to rule because of people like you..

I am not even Igbo.
what we have here is a priest living a celibate life while having same sex attraction and he had the courage to come out that his life may inspire others like him not to sin.
I don't know what you're killing yourself over

joshnes:
OK, lemme ask you again, what will happen to someone that gives his life to Christ just before he dies?

he goes to heaven!

all his sins are wiped clean, he possess righteousness of Christ and is a friend of God and a son of God.

he has no evil works, he possess the good works of Christ.

God only damns the evil, his evil has been wiped clean, he will enter heaven on Christ's righteousness.

solite3:
oga what are you saying? Human works is never need for salvation nether is good works needed.
Do you know the meaning of a gift? If you contributed something to get the gift is it a gift again?
@ bold where is that written?
If people will be barred from heaven on the basis of works then nobody will enter heaven not even Abraham.

the m
basis for justification is grace through faith in Christ merits.

the basis for judgement is works, not faith, that is the basis every one will be judged. God saves us by faith unto good works and will judge us on those works

Matthew 25
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou
wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I
reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have
not strawed:
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money
to the exchangers, and then at my coming I
should have received mine own with usury.
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it
unto him which hath ten talents.
For unto every one that hath shall be given,
and he shall have abundance: but from him that
hath not shall be taken away even that which he
hath.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory,
and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit
upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another, as a
shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand,
but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right
hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the
kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of
the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I
was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a
stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye
visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,
Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed
thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee
in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and
came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye
have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left
hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting
fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no
meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked,
and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye
visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord,
when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a
stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did
not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say
unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the
least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting
punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 5:28-29 , Jesus says, “…
for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the
tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth;
those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of
life, those who committed the evil deeds to a
resurrection of judgment.”
Matthew 16:27 , Jesus says, “For the Son of Man is
going to come in the glory of His Father with His
angels, and will then repay every man according to
his deeds.”
2 Cor. 5:10 , “For we must all appear before the
judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be
recompensed for his deeds in the body, according
to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
Galatians 6:7-8 , “Do not be deceived, God is not
mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also
reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will
from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who
sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal
life.”

Nodogragra4me:
1. Not once was the name Jesus mentioned in all the articles you posted here.
2. There is no word likes graces in the scripture
3. There is no intercession in heaven before God but Jesus Christ... He is our advocate before God
4. Help is only found in Jesus Christ
5. The mysteries of the kingdom are domiciled in the knowledge fountain of the trinity... The Holy spirit who is the only promised teacher of all truth... The truth of the kingdom is called mysteries.... The scripture says to you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom but to them without it is parable and foolishness...... The only personality that can make you know the mystery is the Holy Spirit.... Mary is a member of the trinity unless a couple took place in heaven that we are not aware of






6. An angel brought her the knowledge of the birth so it can't be true that she knew what angels didn't know
7. Your help comes from heaven....Jesus is your helper not Mary



Prayers like Hail holy Queen, we fly to thy patronage are all unscriptural......The Bible is the constitution of the church.... Any personal opinion that can't find support from the scripture is unscriptural and therefore inspired by the devil.... Most of what you posted here falls into unscriptural writings

1. it is rather a sort of fanatism to imagine that every sentence must have the name Jesus even though some of those quotes refer to Jesus using his titles.
2. did the Church father claim otherwise?
3. Jesus is our advocate before God but nowhere does scriptures say there is no other intercessor, in fact scriptures say the holy spirit is our intercessor and talks of the Church interceding.
4. that is the reason we ask for intercession cause in God alone is help.
5. Jesus is the fullness of the revelation of the mysteries of God and he was in the womb of Mary, so yes God bestowed to her the fullness of his mysteries in Christ.
6. she knew what the Angels didn't know, for no Angel has ever given birth to the creator nor will they ever know what it means to be the mother of your creator.
7. all the Church continue to intercede in Christ.

8. the Bible is the book of the Church, the word of God is the constitution of the Church and it is received through tradition and sacred scriptures 2 thess. and as the Church Fathers bear witness, devotion to Mary and the saint is part and parcel of the apostolic tradition the Church received.

brocab:
Hi Uben Merry Christmas-and I hope you had a happy new year..
Maybe the protestant separated themselves from the Catholic Church with good reason, have you ever thought what this good reason is?
The Holy spirit-directed the protestants out..
Haven't you wondered why there are so many Churches-that don't follow Catholicism? Do you believe the spirit of the Lord talks with people, "Have you ever heard from the Lord Uben?
You know uben-As a child I never knew the Lord-but now I am grateful I have found the Lord-where in the Church I couldn't find Him-but out of the Church I found Him.
This is not about the Church-this is about Christ and how many Christians claim to know Christ-and yet have walked away from Him. Who is in charge of the church? Jesus Christ is! It is His church; He bought it with His blood. The local church does not belong to the pastor, or the elders, or to the congregation.
It belongs to Jesus Christ who alone is the Head (Ephesians 1:20-23).
No one dare proclaim, “This is my church!” It doesn’t belong to any of us. It belongs to Christ the Lord. Never in the New Testament are the leaders of the local church referred to as “head” of the church.
Neither is the church viewed as a democratic organization, where the members are free to vote their own minds on issues.
The key question in church government is not, “What is the mind of the members?” but, “What is the mind of Christ?”
The Catholic Church focus only on how great their Church stands-how great is the Pope-and he is God on earth?
{2 Corinthians 2:13-15}1 had no peace in my spirit, because I did not find my brother Titus there. So I said goodbye to them and went on to Macedonia. "But thanks be to God, who always leads us triumphantly as captives in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of Him. "For we are to God the sweet aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
Maybe Uben you should be asking "who" separated the protestants out from the Catholic Church..

actually I know who told the Protestants to dissent and form factions, the Bible tells me.

gal 5:19


Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS, FACTIONS.

the father of those things is the devil.


in fact the Bible warned Christians against the schisms which are the birth place of Protestantism.

1 Corinthians 1:10
Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that
there be no divisions among you, but that you be
made complete in the same mind and in the same
judgment.

the Bible warned Christians to be on alert as regards these schism brewers.


Romans 16:17
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those
who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary
to the teaching which you learned, and turn away
from them.




in fact Jesus formed the Church as his body to prevent such divisions

he has so composed the body,
giving more abundant honor to that member which
lacked, so that there may be no division in the
body, but that the members may have the same
care for one another.


so don't let any one tell you that it was the work of the holy spirit.

Luther man his own Church because he had a guilty conscience and king Henry founded the Anglican Church cause he wanted to marry his concubine, from there all others started...

I recently stopped entertaining banter but I'll respond to this.

analize701:
I agree, but if the same Bishop is also gay? What happens?

even if Gos forbids the bishop is gay he is still duty bound to examine the lives of priest under his jurisdiction and deal with issues prudently and wisely.

You can't be serous, or rather, they are not serious. Is that guideline written or it's like a litmus test to ascertain same sex attractions?

the guidelines are written, every seminarian today goes through a full psychological evaluation with formators on the look out for whoever manages to slip through the evaluation.

And, this guidelines has been in use from the inception of the Catholic Priesthood right? Yet homosexuality is common in the Catholic fold.

From when i was a child, we hear of Priest molesting boys. We listen to our parents, senior Catholic people talk about it like it was nothing serious.

Then i didn't even know what it meant. My mind was to young to conjure up an image of a man and a man together.
Abba, thank you for bringing me out of that satanic hold.

actually I don't enjoy it when people tell lies. the idea that homosexuality was always prevalent in Catholic priesthood is not fact based but instead slander.
it actually became a problem in the 70's during the time of the sexual revolution where close to 2% of priest were probably guilty...those are the cases still treated in the press till today and the numbers are declining. it was during that period those guidelines were published.

it is a pity your childhood was filled with rumors about priests mine was filled with the powerful experience of many holy priest who I became close to and their ministry imparted my life.

What really surprises me in this your stance is, how does one even know that a Priest is gay when everyone in there ought to be Celibate?

Hasn't it occurred to you that, that issue should never even come up? Why should that Issue come up when you have sworn an Oath to remain without sex whether with men or women?

this is a wayward statement.
a person is gay if they are attracted to same sex, even if they are celibate. And a gay man who is celibate is a good example to other gay people.

For the fact that it comes up means that, Celibacy is a Charade in Catholic Church. It's only to fool their ignorant followers.

Come to think of it, Celibacy for the Priest is a Hellenistic Pagan practice, not Jewish or Christian.

No, you wouldn't see it as enough reason becos he is Catholic, and as a Catholic, you don't see what YHWH frowns against as anything important.


He hasn't committed a crime or Sin against who? The Catholic Hellenistic Pagan organization which tramples on YHWH'S laws or YHWH whom he pretends to serve?

Oh wait, homosexuality is acceptable in the Hellenistic pagan religions.


Why are then talking about his sexual preference? Or is there another meaning of Celibacy?


It's a shame.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, {Disciples} and are not, but do lie...
Revelation:3:9

The AntiChrist shall be Homosexual because, it is his duty to oppose everything Christ instituted, and marriage between an adult consenting man and woman is Christ ordianed.

Anyone who has the spirit of homosexuality, has the Seal of the Antichrist. They are the Soldiers of Armageddon.

now you just go on and on with your silly accusation that aren't worth the virtual space they occupy

Ferisidowu:
Lolz anyways I'd like you to show me the doctrines and the things wrong with it

I'm very sure none of his doctrines are heretic

.

Oh really, and you can condemn Calvinism ... Yet you claim we are justified by Grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ ..
Now I ask you, is Grace the same as works?

Do all know this Grace, does the Grace move them to believe Jesus..

Are all changed by this Grace?




Lolz no wonder you condemn Calvinism, how can the people contemporary to Abraham have faith in the true God which they never knew, were they not idolaters
Even Abraham was an idolater before God called him, did God call all the people in Abraham's father's house?
Did God commune with people like he did with Abraham?
Could God not send Abraham to go about preaching the gospel to others? Did God do that? So you think God can be resisted like those ARMINIANS OF ARMINIANISM.

MAYBE YOU EVEN ARMINIAN?



And what does this change, people contemporary to Abraham that were not given the Grace will never be justified, even if they have the law in their hearts ... The only means to justification is Christ Jesus





Lolz now justification is by works, ryt, and also I understand this your point to mean that Christ isn't the ONLY WAY. Since those contemporary to Abraham can be justified by their works, then 1) it's useless that God called Abraham.
2) and also that Christ had not been crucified since the foundation of the world

Can there be eternal life without Jesus?

This verse you quoted is out of justification context

We are saved only by Christ not works.........

Although some people contemporary to Abraham were good yet that doesn't justify them, it's a prove that
The law is written in their hearts...

my dear I asked a question you have not answered.


please show Christians who taught Calvinism before Calvin and I'll gladly address these points.


I hate a one sided discussion.

petra1:
I agree with you on the use of the term there. You made a good point. But the context was very clear that its not in the same sense. concerning jesus. the Mary and her other children were specifically mentioned.

Matthew 13:55-56
55 Is not this the carpenter’s Son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
56 And do not all His sisters live here among us? Where then did this Man get all this?

if he had said 'HIS BRETHREN' well it could have passed 50- 50 for or against . but he mentioned the father mother sisters and brother. If they were not blood brothers and sisters the name of joseph and mary would not have been mentioned but rather the names of the real father and mother of those siblings would have taken the stage. Besides The bible never indicated that Joseph and Mary adopted relatives or share house with relatives

my dear this thing you are doing is called shifting the goal post and it doesn't lead to a profitable discussion.

first you said God is not daft and must differentiate relatives and brothers, I replied that it is OK in Semitic culture to call kinsmen brothers,
then you shifted and said they are only called brothers in a general not a specific sense, I clearly showed you that they are called brothers even in a specific sense and now you are shifting to discuss context.

OK let us see context.
King James Bible
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother
called Mary? and his BRETHREN James, and Joses, and
Simon, and Judas?

here is gen 14:14-16
And when Abram heard that his brother was
taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born
in his own house, three hundred and eighteen,
and pursued them unto Dan.
And he divided himself against them, he and
his servants, by night, and smote them, and
pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left
hand of Damascus.
And he brought back all the goods, and also
brought again his brother Lot,

in Matthew they said,is this not the Carpenter's son, is his mother not Mary, are his brothers not.... and in genesis it says Abraham s brother was taken captive, both are specific cases, the context doesn't state if they were blood brothers, or relatives and no Christian of repute ever imagined for the first 1700 years of Christianity that those two passages were about blood brothers.

if you feel confident in holding an opinion that crept into Christendom 350 years ago then I wish you the best just remember that the Bible also warns about teaching that creep in during the end times

Investnow2017:
Go ahead. You are talking to a baby. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Catholic's form of worship is anything but scriptural and bears no resemblance whatsoever with the documented form of worship established by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

I feel deliberately irked by comparing Jesus' simple and practical form of worship with the tradition-filled manner of worship peculiar to the catholics.

why not make your research, it is not enough to be irked. research how the early Church worshipped. start from what the Bible records then read up the writings of early Christians.


the funny truth is that all biblical worship is tradition filled, the first and in fact the act of worship commanded by Christ is the Lords supper. the same we find the apostles doing

They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching
and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to
prayers

even Paul when he wrote about how the early Christians worshipped wrote it as tradition

or I have received of the Lord that which also
I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same
night in which he was betrayed took bread:


read up on how the early Church worship and that is how the Catholic Church basically worships

joshnes:
ubenedictus, this is clearer, but the description in Rom 2:9-10, can't be of christians, that description is for unbelievers. I believe we are SAVED for good works. There are things we need to do as christians to maintain our new nature and all these things are found in God. All. Victory above sin is given by God, even though we have our parts to play. The works we are referring to we do them by God (Phil 2:12-13). No doubt that works are important, but they are only important for the salvation of the soul and not the spirit. A dying man who surrenders to Christ will go to heaven without any works, why? Because, his spirit is saved, there is no need for works to do that.

my dear the description in RM 2:9 relates to the standard of God in judgement both for Jews, Christian and gentile it tally with Matthew 15. you will enter heaven or be barred on the basis of works... that is a Gospel truth.

we are saved For good works which God foreordained for us to walk in so that on the last day when we are asked we will present works done in Christ for scripture is clear the basis for heaven or hell is works.

PraiseDLord:
What a niece caption of a hidden history. God bless!
Please where can we research more of these online.
God bless you.

lol

this is a fairy tale with no shred of history told by those who dislike the Catholic Church to those looking for an excuse to hate the Catholic Church.

there is no historical research here and no serious historian agrees with this... just a bunch of hearsay from already biased people.

this is called "give a dog a bad name so as to hang it"

nicemuyoo:
The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire, and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine (AD 272–337) and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Western half of the Roman Empire collapsed in 476, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus. Pope Gregory I, ruling from 590–604, is usually considered the first bishop to truly wield papal authority.

If you have not paid your tithe who consficates your property ? It is the church under the authority of Rome empire using roman soldier to execute judgement. the Roman emperor has sanction catholism as the religion of the empire over night a demonic move by antichrist when persecution could not defeat the congregation of believers

the primacy of the Roman bishops existed long before the emperors recognized Christianity as a religion. and in fact Rome wasn't the capital city during most of that time. Constantine move the capital to Constantinople and the Bishop of Constantinople was empowered by the emperors not the bishop of Rome.


Rome had the primacy because that is where the apostles Peter and Paul died and the primacy was always exercised since the apostolic times.

when the tithe was instituted in France it was a Church law not a secular law, the Christians willingly gave tithe and nothing was confiscated if one is unable to pay.

petra1:
its not true. the bible specified kinsmen when talking about them .I agree that the term brethren could be used in generic term for family,or church. making reference to collective body even church brethren , this includes male and female. but the context of use in mattthew 13 is blood brothers and sisters.

Matthew 13:55-56
55 Is not this the carpenter’s Son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
56 And do not all His[b] sisters[/b] live here among us? Where then did this Man get all this?

if the term brother and sister is used . its no longer compund or generic but specific . hope you get my point

not really,

the term brother is also used specifically to refer to a relative who isn't a blood brother.

here is gen 14:14-16

And when Abram heard that his brother was
taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born
in his own house, three hundred and eighteen,
and pursued them unto Dan.
And he divided himself against them, he and
his servants, by night, and smote them, and
pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left
hand of Damascus.
And he brought back all the goods, and also
brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and
the women also, and the people.


here brother is used in the specific sense to refer to lot and we all know that lot isn't the biological brother of Abraham.


this is how Semitic peoples wrote and spoke.

Ferisidowu:
. names were not written , it's not a issue priority if you believe me or not, basically my questions are
1) do you believe the five points of Calvinism

2) how are you justified, by Faith or works?

3) can you be justified by both?

4) the gentiles living contemporary to Abraham , how would they be declared righteous?

all you have to do is show me anyone who taught Calvinism before Calvin... that's all.

1. No, I do not accept doctrines of men invented 1500 years after the death of the apostles and then read into scripture. in fact that is my definition for heresy.

2.3. no one is initially justified by both, we are justified by Grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ, and it is applied to us through Faith usually in baptism WITHOUT works done by human strength. that is how Christians have taught it for 2000 years.

4. to all who had faith in the one true God it was reckoned as righteousness. to those who didn't have that much faith Paul teaches

Indeed, when Gentiles,
who do not have the law, do by nature things
required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law. They
show that the requirements of the law are written
on their hearts, their consciences also bearing
witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing
them and at other times even defending them.)
This will take place on the day when God
judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as
my gospel declares.


and

To those who by persistence in
doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he
will give eternal life. But for those who are self-
seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil,
there will be wrath and anger.

nicemuyoo:
The roman emperor gave permission for churches to collect tithe. The church council initiated it but the emperor has to sanction it.

the emperor didn't have to sanction it, the church is competent to initiate and implement its own laws within the Church.

Ferisidowu:
bro its even on Wikipedia that he didn't start pls Google it ....... am sincere ....

give me a name na

petra1:
God is not daft. He knows the difference between cousin and brother and sister.

God is certainly not daft, nobody said he was...

but God used Semitic people - Jews in writing the Bible and for Jews, cousin, brothers, relatives and kinsmen can all be called "brothers" without distinction and that can be seen though out the Bible... the same thing will happen if God used Nigerians in writing the Bible... we too sometimes call relatives brothers.

in case you don't know the Bible didn't fall from heaven, God used men in writing it under the inspiration of the holy spirit and those men wrote according to their cultures and understanding. and it is normal that Jews call their kinsmen brothers, this appears severally in scriptures

Investnow2017:
You mean Jesus' apostles, Paul and others were wearing long garbs like we see among catholics today? Pls see my questions as an honest and sincere ones because i want to know.

from a historical point of view YES.

the long garbs worn by Catholic priest today is actually the same with what early Christians wore with minor exceptions.
do you think the apostles were wearing suits?
infact Jesus wore something similar.

BUT,

That isn't the point I was making, my point is that if you xray the belief of early Christians and check that of Catholics today you would find that they are basically the same, if you read up on the practices of the early Christians and how they worshipped and compare them with the Catholic mass you'll again find that they are basically the same, in fact every Catholic Bishop and priest is a successor of the Bishops and presbyter of the early Church. so that it is accurate to say that the Catholic church is same as the early Church and is that very Church established by the apostles.

petra1:
Wrong . The Bible would have said so . Why are cousins so important for the first time in the Bible? Isn't that funny ?



Not at all.

Acts 12:1
Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church
And he killed James the brother of John with the sword..

Are you saying James was also coursing of john ?

The decipher James and the apostle James are different .

James was the biological brother of Jesus

Galatians 1:19 (AMPC)
But I did not see any of the other apostles (the special messengers of Christ) except James the brother of our Lord.

why do you assume the Bible must have recorded every thing to the minutest details?

striktIymi:
I was about 6yrs old when I asked my dad that question. It is safe to say I am in my 30's now and still haven't gotten a good answer to that question.

However, thinking critically, I would proffer that the mystery lay deep within God's design to make its creatures free. It is impractical for God to create beings in the 'likeness' of himself and not grant them the freedom of choice.

Lucifer freely chose the path it is on, and for God to forfeit creating this being, whom was created out of goodwill, simply because of the path it will follow, would be an attempt to deprive at least one of it's creatures the right of choice.

I'm now convinced there are issues in this life we may never fully understand one of them is the mystery of evil.

LaaJiblik:
Okay, maybe Mary didn’t have children after Jesus.

But that means all the subsequent sexual Intercourse between her and Koseph never Med to any fertilisation?

this only comes in when you make the assumption that they were having intercourse.

Emyogalanya:
EVEN MARY WILL NOT BE SAVED PROVE ME WRONG IF YOU FEEL OTHERWISE

as I said

and I make bold to agree that no one will be saved
without the birth, life and death of Christ.



in case you can't understand my English... I agree that Mary couldn't be saved without Christ.

Emyogalanya:
LIKE I SAID EARLIER ITS NOT AN ARTICLE OF FAITH HENCE ITS ABSENCE FROM THE 'APOSTLE'S CREED OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT BELIEF PERPETUAL VIRGINITY IS CRITERIA FOR ENTERING HEAVEN. THAT JESUS DO OTHER THIS WHICH ARE NOT RECORD THATS BETWEEN BOOK OF JOHN ACCOUNT OF JESUS. WHAT DO YOU NOW SAY OF LUKE. MIND YOU ONCE THE CANON REJECTS A BOOK ITS ENTIRE CONTENTS STANDS REJECTED. HOW DOES IT SOUND LOGICAL TO YOU THAT A BOOK THAT COULD NOT MEET UP TO CANNOICAL STANDARD SHOULD NOW BE USE AS YARDSTICK TO DETERMINE AND UNREVEALED TRUTH. THE FIRST THING TO DO IS TO CANONISE THEM AS WAS DONE TO DEUTROCANONICAL BOOKS

the apostles creed is not the only place the Church lays down articles of faith... you should know this since you claim to be Catholic.


an entire book doesn't get rejected because it wasn't added to the canon. in fact the book of revelation is not canonical in some ancient churches but that doesn't mean it was rejected.

historically canonical simply mean the book read in the local Church... it is possible in the early Church for a book to be accepted and still be uncanonical.


read up on how the Bible was canonized.

Emyogalanya:
ITS NOT IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD. BUT MY POINT IS THIS ITS NOT GOD THAT IS INVOLVED HERE IT IS JOSEPH AND MARY LIVING IN THE SAME ROOM FOR 12 TO ALMOST 30 YEARS AND YOU ARE SAYING HE DID NOT TOUCH HER IS MARY NOW A SPIRIT. YOU SHE DON'T EVEN REMOVE HER CLOTHS TO BATH USING TOWEL AND THEY DID NOT LIE ON THE SAME BED TOGETHER YOU JUST MADE A GODESS OF MARY

I am just curious...

are you aware that the teaching that Mary had other children only became part of the Protestant churches less than 300 year ago?

Emyogalanya:
BOOK OF enoch? The CanOn Of The Old Testament Is Diff From That Of The New Testament. If Such Book Exist The Canon Do The Apostle Have Power To Cannoise The Old Testament? Whose Authenticity Has Been Established Befor Christ Came They Were Already In Use. Granted That Some Books From The Apostle's ( gospel Of Thomas) Did Not Make It Into The New Testament So What Your Now Saying Is That A Book That Was Not Considered eligible By CannoNical Standard hence Its Removal Is What You Now Use As YardsTiCK For Eternal Virginity. If It Teach About It Why Did They Remove It From The Bible Only One Reason ; Cos It Is Heresy And Falsehood

the Church chose the canon and left out even the book of Enoch quoted in Jude.


if you disagree you can make your own Bible

Emyogalanya:
MosesAlex A Man Married A Woman And You Are Here Telling Me That Its A Sin For Him To Meet That Same Woman. WHERE DID YOU SEE THEM TAKE THE VOW. YOU THINK MARY IS THE ONLY VIRGIN AT THAT TIME? AND WHATS THE BIG DEAL IN A VIRGIN CONCEIVING? WAIT TILL YOU HEAR ABOUT ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION. VIRGIN OR NO VIRGIN EXTRA CHILD OR NOT DOES IT REDUCE THE POWER OF CHRIST AS SAVIOUR? NO. WHEN MY DAD DIED WE THE CHILDREN WERE NOT AROUND SO THAT MEANS WE ARE NOT HIS CHILDREN. SO IF MY DAD CALL ANY YOUNG MAN SAYING MY SON GIVE ME WATER AND BEFORE HE CAME AROUND HE DIED IT THEN MEANS HE HAS HANDED OVER THE WHOLE HOUSE TO HIM? INCLUDING MY MUM? DID THE APOSTLE TELL YOU HE IS MOTHERLESS DO YOU EVEN KNOW THAT JESUS WAS SEEN AS ENEMY OF THE STATE AS SUCH NO ONE COULD ASSOCIATE WITH HIM. AS EVEN HIS ARMSTLES RAN AWAY EVEN IN OUR CONTEMPORARY LIFE ITS EASIER FOR WOMEN TO COME CLOSE DID YOU ALSO NOTE THAT ONLY WOMEN FOLLOWED HIM TO THE PLACE COS NO MAN COULD DARE CONFRONT SOLDIERS BUT WOMEN COULD HENCE THE ABSENSE OF HIS BROTHERS

1st according to Jewish tradition, a man will not sleep with his wife if he is aware she was pregnant for another... even if he keeps her as part of his household.

2nd the Jews had a religious fear for anything touched by the presence of God, in fact the moment a thing or person was touched by God's presence it was reserved from normal use.

in fact Joseph been a Jew would know these things... he can't sleep with a woman who had a child that wasn't his while betrothed to him, even if he keeps her in his house as wife or concubine, it becomes weirder if he knew the presence of God overshadowed her ...then he'll certainly not touch her....

Add that to the fact that Joseph only took her home by the angels command just to provide a legal name for Jesus.


As for me this argument of 13 pages is weird... every Christian of good repute who talked about the virginity of Mary from 1 AD to 1700AD all teach that Mary was a perpetual virgin and those that didn't discuss the issue do not disprove it either, in fact the first Protestants like Martin Luther, John Wesley, John Calvin all agree she is a perpetual virgin

...this idea that Mary has other kids is very new... it come around only recently, crept into the Protestant churches and gained traction about 250 years ago.

if you are following an end time teaching that began about 250 years ago and you are using this new teaching to condemn those who hold the faith as taught and believed by all Christians both Catholic, Orthodox and Protestants for 2000 years... then be careful. you may be the one in trouble.