₦airaland Forum

menxer:
how?

that quote to me makes nonsense of the evangelism work of the church, why even try to "save" someone that was preordained/predestinated to eternal death?

i will understand trying to "save" those who were predestinated to life but lost their way, but what of those who are safely "saved," in the arms of the church but were predestinated to death?

you see, this doctrine of predestination poses a catch-22 to the doctrine of salvation by Jesus Christ.

actually Calvin was excommunicated for this doctrines

Splinz:
You Have a Choice

God, through Moses, told ancient Israel that they had a choice concerning whether to obey Him. Notice: “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE life, that both you and your seed may live” (Deut. 30:19). God does not mock people or nations. He would not indict all those who “did not CHOOSE the fear of the LORD” (Prov. 1:29) if they really had no power to make this choice.

You have the power to choose (Deut. 30:18-19). What will your choice be?

this mean you disagree with Calvin

Ferisidowu:
early theologians even wrote concerning bondage of free will....

a lot of modern Christians and even pastors give much priority to free will

how early are you willing to go?

5solas:
Thanks An2elect. I am excited. I will be posting later. We should have a reading plan, say a chapter a week which may be posted. Thereafter observations, comments, questions can be asked .
Who was Loraine Boettner?

a serious Calvinist

An2elect2:
Good morning everyone This is a discussion thread about historical Christianity and salient church doctrines. It's important to every diligent student of the Bible to know what the Bible holds as truth, what the early churches believed and what the best and wisest men in history preached. And how passionate they were about what they preached. Guess? every wise person would consider why they held on to those truths even in the face of great opposition. Surely there has to be something in it!

Brother 5Solas and any other person with sound contributions and/or questions are officially welcome.

We would commence with a book by Loraine Boettner
THE REFORMED DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION You can download the PDF and it's corresponding audio files ( all on Google)




WHO IS LORRAINE BOETTNER?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loraine_Boettner

lol

I thought you wanted to go back to as far as the entire history of the church and interact with the evidence...

but ofcus I forgot that for Protestants Christian history began in the 15 th century...

that isn't even half of the Christian history.


see where ur chapter began
The purpose of this book is not to set forth a new system of
theological thought, but to give a re-statement to that great
system which is known as the Reformed Faith or Calvinism,
and to show that this is beyond all doubt the teaching of the
Bible and of reason. The doctrine of Predestination receives
comparatively little attention in our day and it is very
imperfectly understood even by those who are supposed to
hold it most loyally. It is a doctrine, however, which is
contained in the creeds of most evangelical churches and
which has had a remarkable influence both in Church and
State. The official standards of the various branches of the
Presbyterian and Reformed Churches in Europe and America
are thoroughly Calvinistic. The Baptist and Congregational
Churches, although they have no formulated creeds, have in
the main been Calvinistic if we may judge from the writings
and teachings of their representative theologians. The great
free church of Holland and almost all the churc

castrokins:
The Thing Dey Tire MMe Well. Most Of The Time I've Attended The Roman Catholic Church In My Area, This Remains A Common Sight. Very Dramatic!

it is called the prayer position, just as people lift up their hands to praise people join their hand to pray.
http://www.stjosephsite.com/SJS_Articles_prayinghands.htm
Catholic does it through out the mass
whatever works for u

asuustrike2009:
No they are except there is bible verse they are standing on to back their claims. Anyway it is their doctrine hence it should be respected as no one is forced to join the Catholic faith.

so you think it is OK to live in sin and ask for communion?
just to clarify

removetheturban:
Modern pentecostalism began in the early 20th Century. You are asking me when your church began? You are an offshoot of Protestantism that I know for sure.

We do not deny that we came out of Babylon the great; the world empire of false religion. The harlot that sits in many waters.

you must be the good fruit of a bad tree abi?

NoToPile:
Miss there are about 2 factors here.

Church
Igbo/ yoruba culture


On the issue of church to wed, culturally in yoruba land it's the brides father or brides church(depending on circumstances)that the wedding is done, the point is the brides family are the ones that make arrangements for wedding both trad and white.

It seems Igbos have no problem with the wedding holding in the man's church culturally and then you now add catholic/ penstecostalism to the mix.

So your people will see your hubby's request as strange which is expected, most yoruba dad's will never allow it because they will tell you it is the man that is coming to marry the woman.

While your hubby's people will see it as no big deal.


My friends wedding was stalled for more than a year same issue

Bride- yoruba/ baptist
Groom- igbo catholic

The grooms mum was the fore runner of the you must come to the east for the church wedding and the yoruba people were like we don't do it that way where we come from, it's you guys that must come to southwest in our own church it was not a small matter.

I did notice that other Igbos of other denominations really don't have an issue with this it's only the igbo catholics that insist the wedding must be in the grooms church, it sounds more like culture than the Catholic doctrine.

nobody was right or wrong, it's just the way things are done differently.

Madam you have a lot on your hands, you won't want to hurt your family and he wouldn't want to hurt his and unfortunately nobody is right or wrong it's just the perspective each is coming from.

it is doctrine but there is a process to escape it

Ladyhippolyta88:
This is the best advise.

not really, registry doesn't work for Catholics

estheremma:
ok,im catholic we do something called mixed marriage,that is marriage with ousiders,we can marry them n allow them continue their church.See with ur fiance pls,if he doez not wed in d catholic fold,he ceases to be a communicant,may not participate in major things.If u love him,do a mixed marriage for peace

amen

Exponental:
I think this is an Igbo-Catholic modified doctrine. It is not purely Catholic. I have attended weddings of male Catholics in other churches. My Aunty's was one!

it is purely Catholic... it is even serious enough to stop communion. there is a way to do it, it is called dispensation

Wisebird22:
go to catholic church and register ur bands of marriage,notify d church dt u guys will do d weddin in ur church(protestant)u will attend marriag clases at catholic church/marriage at protestant and firstmass at catholic,(she authomatically bcoms a catholic member)

she doesn't automatically become a Catholic member... that is very nuanced

chinene1:
Like someone said. Go through the motions of attending marriage classes and bans of marriage. Then after the court wedding, have a blessing of the marriage certificate in his church. That way, his marriage to you will be recognized by his church. Then you can have your white wedding in your church. It's a long process sha but it may be able to satisfy everyone.

this may work...
blessing the marriage in both Church

wilsonreuben:
Let her just convert. Who send her to go fall in love with a Catholic.

Just so you know, the wedding can be done in her church if both parties agrees and the couple will also agree with the church that their children will become catholics(they will be baptised and brought up in the catholic church)

they need a dispensation to do that

MYSELF2018:
Thank you ma. I have said it several times but he said ...Catholic wedding is the one that we must do. He even suggested that he wont mind coming down to my place as my tradition if my Dad can arrange with a Catholic church to hold the wedding here . But my Family is not attending Catholic and they won't support that suggestion from him

ask him about a dispensation... he need to see a priest and his bishop.

but his family won't like it and it will take time.

MYSELF2018:
I have brought up this issue too. He said registry is different from catholic recognized wedding.

registry isn't recognized as sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church... in fact he won't be allowed to receive communion

MYSELF2018:
Good afternoon to you all, Please I need your advice.

I love everything about this guy and it is almost leading to the altar but a problem is about separating us. My Man is an Igbo man and a Roman Catholic, I am a Yoruba lady attending a pentecostal church. My Man is saying that he can't go to any other church for his wedding and it must be in his catholic church, He says their tradition in Igbo land forbid them from doing wedding in the brides church, whereas Yoruba tradition says that the wedding must hold in my Father's church not the groom's church as to give honour to my parents.

My man also said that he won't be recognized as a Catholic if he should go and do his wedding in pentecostal church. I have been having mixed feelings ever since this issue started. Please I need your input and advice.

Thanks

let me tell you the simple truth. your man is trying to help you, if you are married in his Church he is sacramentally tied to you and cannot divorce you without a serious back lash from his Church.


let me explain.

Catholics consider marriage to be a sacrament... that means it is an effective means of grace by which God sanctify and bless a union of man and wife, for us that Union is so deep and that it mirrors the Union of Jesus and his Church... thus marriage now has an intrinsic Christian character....that it becomes indissoluble, stable and self given... I don't even know if you will understand this... it is not found in Protestant theology. you may check the thread for Catholics if you really wish to understand it.



to cut a long story short a Catholic is only recognized are sacramentaly married if he weds in his Church, or seeks and receive dispensation to be married in your Church.

without this, his Church will not recognized this so called marriage and it will be as if you guys are just living together, he won't be able to receive communion. in fact If you guys divorce tomorrow his Church would not even care because he isn't considered validly married.
this is very serious.

he needs a dispensation to get married in your Church or you marry in his....

it is important the guy isn't trying to be rigid... where a Catholic marries is a very valid concern.

serious stuff.

God did say judgement shall start from his house.

pastorabuoma:
Hello all, there is also a Sovereign Grace Baptist Church in Imo state in case there is anyone in Imo state seeking for a Reformed/ Sovereign Grace Church. Our mini website is www.umuaka-church..com. You can call us on phone with this number 08066692613; and email is umuakachurch@gmail.com we adhere to the doctrine of grace, and we hold to the 1644/1646 First London Baptist Confession of Faith.

some people will argue that Baptist aren't reformed

Vikkioshio:
Yes

ever been here www.nairaland.com/1464338/thread-catholics ?
besides the suffix of your username sounds edolike

brocab:
Thanks for you honesty Uben-so the Catholic Church demonstrates there Church is a first denominational Church God had built in Rome? and you believe-everyone who claims to promote their Church lets say AOG-COC any denomination name like the Catholic Church name, is walking in the flesh. Does not denomination mean recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church."the Presbyterian community is the second largest denomination in the country"synonyms religious group, sect, Church, cult, movement, faith community, body, persuasion, religious persuasion, communion, order, fraternity, brotherhood, sisterhood, school; is not the Catholic denomination a Church?
So your Church is evident and it is walking in the flesh-because the denominational name is the Catholic Church, gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.
So every denomination you say: with a name, fits In with {Galatians 5:19} Interesting"
I have never looked at names like the way you have done, I have always seen the Church to be the people-all under denominational buildings.
Thanks for your feed back-and you know Uben it does make sense, if the people knew Christ, they wouldn't need to seek after their man made denominations in the flesh that causes such evil within the Church.

I think you have misunderstood me in one aspect.

1. I don't believe that the Catholic Church is the foremost denomination, no! instead I am saying that in, essence it is the Church established by Christ himself, which the apostles led and for which they ordained others to continue their work....that Church established by Christ himself is what has come down to us called the Catholic Church and the so-called denominations as factions that were made by men who call themselves Protestants.
2. all who broke out of the Catholic Church are the factions and dissension.


3. the Church according to the Bible has one Lord, one baptism, one Faith and one God, the different contradictory denominations fail that test as they do not share one Faith and they certainly cannot be every denomination.

that is why I never teach denomination instead I ask are you in the one Church instituted by Christ himself or in one of those faction and so-called denominations that broke off.

From the treatise Against Heresies by Saint Irenaeus, bishop

knowledge of the Father consists in the self-revelation of the Son

No one can know the Father apart from God’s Word, that is, unless the Son reveals him, and no one can know the Son unless the Father so wills. Now the Son fulfils the Father’s good pleasure: the Father sends, the Son is sent, and he comes. The Father is beyond our sight and comprehension; but he is known by his Word, who tells us of him who surpasses all telling. In turn, the Father alone has knowledge of his Word. And the Lord has revealed both truths. Therefore, the Son reveals the knowledge of the Father by his revelation of himself. Knowledge of the Father consists in the self-revelation of the Son, for all is revealed through the Word.

  The Father’s purpose in revealing the Son was to make himself known to us all and so to welcome into eternal rest those who believe in him, establishing them in justice, preserving them from death. To believe in him means to do his will.

  Through creation itself the Word reveals God the Creator. Through the world he reveals the Lord who made the world. Through all that is fashioned he reveals the craftsman who fashioned it all. Through the Son the Word reveals the Father who begot him as Son. All speak of these things in the same language, but they do not believe them in the same way. Through the law and the prophets the Word revealed himself and his Father in the same way, and though all the people equally heard the message not all equally believed it. Through the Word, made visible and palpable, the Father was revealed, though not all equally believed in him. But all saw the Father in the Son, for the Father of the Son cannot be seen, but the Son of the Father can be seen. The Son performs everything as a ministry to the Father, from beginning to end, and without the Son no one can know God. The way to know the Father is the Son. Knowledge of the Son is in the Father, and is revealed through the Son. For this reason the Lord said: No one knows the Son except the Father; and no one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son has revealed him. The word “revealed” refers not only to the future – as though the Word began to reveal the Father only when he was born of Mary; it refers equally to all time. From the beginning the Son is present to creation, reveals the Father to all, to those the Father chooses, when the Father chooses, and as the Father chooses. So, there is in all and through all one God the Father, one Word and Son, and one Spirit, and one salvation for all who believe in him.

asuustrike2009:
Are you aware that same Israelites were living in Israel before they went to Egypt?

are you aware that the Israelites living in Canaan wasn't even a clan but just a family and they met others there?

OLAADEGBU:
And from where did Israel get to Egypt?

you mean Abraham who bought a Land in canan? he too met people there, Isaac met people there, Jacob himself also met people there... so how original is the claim that others can't show that the Israelites took territories from other people

Amberon11:
Good question. There is not one historical fact pointing to the fact that Palestinians are the original owners of Jerusalem but there are thousands to show that Jews own and even built the city.

are you aware Abraham came from ur, the Israelites came to Jerusalem from Egypt.


guess what? people were there before them

brocab:
I do understand where you are going with this Uben, Quote:{God doesn't call people to form factions in the Church that isn't the work of the HOLY spirit, it is the work of the flesh a satanic enterprise} "But it isn't just some denominations you believe is causing problems throughout the Church-firstly are they truly saved? Is the Holy Spirit working inside every Man, Woman and Child. "No" this is why the Church have {Galatians 5:19} within..
Receiving God is renewing your heart, mind and soul..
But Paul said In {1 Thessalonians 2:13-14} And we continually thank God that in receiving the word of God from us, you did not accept it as the word of men, but as the true word of God. And this is the word which is now at work in you who believe. For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Judea that are in Christ Jesus. You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews. "These are men that believed" and not every man that claims Christ believes, not even in Rome..
We find in every Church-theirs only the very few that believe in Christ, not everyone in Church believes, The Church today are full of unsaved people who haven't the slightest idea who God is, they go to Church because of a family tradition, or they feel good going to Church on Sunday, people come to Church because the Pastor, Priest told them they will go into heaven because they are good people, some believe by works helping a little old lady cross the road, God rewards them of their good deeds-some believe priest can save them by their sinful confession.
Some believe they don't need Christ-because they were told, Christ isn't the only way into Heaven, some believe just by works gives them a place in Heaven, And their are those waiting to be paid"Mammon comes before God-most don't even study the scriptures, Jesus said by their fruit we will know them. But all in all most people don't know God, visa versa, but they will continual to call themselves Christian.
In most Churches we find pastor priest are men pleases-these chase after the material things, rather then chase after the spiritual things of God. We have many coming to Christ everyday by preachers who haven't the slightest idea who Christ is, just say this simple prayer, and you are saved.
Peter preachers it this way, "Repent and believe and be baptised for the remissions of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. {Acts 2:38}
Pastors priest are not teaching their flocks in Christ-people are leaving just as quick as they entered into the Church, most people aren't saved, because they come and they go, some are taught once saved always saved, No one is saved without the Holy Spirit-working in us and changing us-once God does the work in us He continual's until the end. Everyone can say they believe, the Mormons believe, the Jehovah Witness believe, the Catholic's believe, these 3 have written their own bibles because they believe the bible is not enough to fill God's Word, and added other books to the scriptures.
{1 Corinthians 12:1-3} Brothers and sisters, I want you to know about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You know that at one time you were unbelievers. You were somehow drawn away to worship statues of gods that couldn’t even speak. So I want you to know that no one who is speaking with the help of God’s Spirit says, “May Jesus be cursed.” And without the help of the Holy Spirit no one can say, “Jesus is Lord.…
Sadly people have made a mockery out from God-coming to Christ with the wrong attitude, did you know/many are called, but few are chosen, this is written because by their fruit we will know them.
I myself don't fellowship in any Church-to be honest I felt I was backsliding in them, I have had more teaching and more understanding from the Lord, just by studying at home, Uben this forum have taught me a lot about myself and the God I so much love and serve.

where I. am going is clear.
denominations are a biblical taboo, a sin.
anybody who promotes such system is promoting an anti biblical system.

any one who claim to be in Christ and yet promote denominations is walking in the flesh.

gal 5:19
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident,
which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy,
outbursts of anger, disputes, DISSENSIONS,
FACTIONS.

RadicallyBlunt:
Ppl are saying that statue is not Jesus. I'm wondering where the Catholics are right now.

ofcuz a statue isn't a person

...this though may be offensive to some

solite3:
see ignorance, when has talent become grace? You lack comprehension. When the servant accused the master as a hard man that always want to reap where he did not sow, what is that? Smh
If you like feed the hungry, clothe the naked..etc even give your self as sacrifice, if you are not bornagain you can't see the kingdom of heaven.

I am even surprised you are accusing me of lacking comprehension.

what do you think that parable is talking about? you think it is just about servants who were given some money to trade?

sorry I am almost encouraged to call you shallow.

that parable is almost self explanatory. Jesus is the master who leaves and give us graces for us to work with, he will come back again as judge and those who were profitable receive reward while the slothful is condemned.

if you can't understand simple parable I wonder...