₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
See, there's nothing wrong having fair debate btw sects within islam for educational purposes. But when debate leads to argument and foul word, for me, it's time to call it quit. I already figured out some 7 yrs ago there is no way differences can be solved until Allah's intervention. Therefore, suggestion is way around it. I will only engage in sectarian debate for learning purposes.

Sometimes one is blind by sect he belongs to. One naturally have soft spot for the sect he/she belongs.

@ bold; The person who called others like me "Dajjal" for debunking tenets and dogmas of his faith, what put him in position to say this? Those condemning MrOlai now will join him if he were bashing or castigating me over my recent thread in the section. It is the pitiful state of most traditional Muslims, they can't deal responsibly with heterodox views because they don't see the chances of themselves being on the wrong path.

Quran tells you to only say; "There is no god except God", and you dare contemplate about Muhammad?

Quran 37:35-36
For when it was said unto them, There is no god save God, they were scornful. And said: Shall we forsake our gods for a mad poet?

JudgementHammer:
Op asking someone out means

-ure ready to spend for that person cus d person was on his/her own jeje b4 u asked him/her out

-ure ready to take d blame and bear the pain if the person misbehaves and walks out of the relationship. Afterall he/she didn't ask for it, u did

And these are the least things a woman's nature can do or bear so its better she stays on her own and show appreciation when the man comes for her. Yet u'll still find some unappreciative ones

Again, my post misunderstood by another poster. It seem many people just can't read and digest simple English of under five hundred words. No where in my post did I question women for not making the first move. I consistently stuck with the objective:

To analyze the excuses that ladies present for not making the first move, explain why these are flimsy excuses and state the true reason why women do not make the first move or ask out men.


PS: I think you need to reconsider your stand on asking people out. You even claim to ask someone out is to taking the blame if the person misbehave in the relationship, this is astounding! You don't even have to spend on someone you ask out. You musn't ask them out to dinner or cinema. You could ask him/her to help you with some personal tasks, to play sports or a simple walk.

amokeme:
Well not all guys are mentally mature to handle it done the other way.. so, don't blame the ladies.

Where in my post did I blame ladies for never making the first move? What my post dealt with all along is women's refusal to admit their fear of rejection and giving other excuse I consider lame for not making the first move.

And I don't think it's a "fear of rejection case" (at least not generally )

The whole article tried to explain why fear of rejection is the major if not the single cause. If you don't think it is, you owe the readers an explanation

rexkexmilan:
OP, Be frank with Yourself... If a Girl approaches you "First" and Starts telling you Funny Stuffs, How will you feel? How will you assess the Girl?

OMG, youths of nowadays! If you didnt read and digest, why comment? The bone of contention in the OP is not women approaching men but women refusal to admit their fear of rejection. So, I see no reason for your question

2. “Asking out a man will make me look cheap, and men won’t appreciate a woman they find cheap”

Since when did being assertive and pursuing what one wants become cheap? To be cheap is actually going for options with the lowest cost, rather than the option that is best. Those women who give the above excuse cannot be taken serious because most of them take cheaper options in their dealings with men that approach them. For instance, they go on expensive dates, have all the fun and leave the man to handle the bills for food, drinks, transport e. t. c. Isn’t this cheap of these women? They are thrilled to parade themselves to clubs and parties granting them charge-free entry whilst men pay a whole lot to gain entry. Isn’t this cheap of these women? Only a brainwashed woman will regard asking out men or making the first move to be cheap, whereas demanding and collecting gifts (like N200 recharge cards) from men to be acceptable.


The truth is simple; as we can see, most women do not really care about what others think about them, whether they look cheap or desperate. So the above two excuses cannot be accepted as genuine reasons why they never make the first move.

The real reason why women do not make the first move or ask out men is because they are scared of rejection . Any other reason women give is false or a distant second to their fear of rejection. Unfortunately, as evident as this is, they seldom admit it. Personally, I have no problem with women bent on never making the first move. What I will not stand is the same women giving the aforementioned lame excuses without for once even admitting their fear of rejection. Not only is this dishonest, it is self denial.

Thank you for reading.

In this thread I analyze the excuses that ladies present for not making the first move, explain why these are flimsy excuses and state the true reason why women do not make the first move or ask out men.
Without further ado, I will cut right to the chase. Ask an average woman what she thinks about asking men out and you can expect either of these two responses;

1. “Men are the ones to make the first move. Asking out men will put me out as desperate”

The last time I checked, a desperate person is one that is in such a dire and needy state that he will accept anything regardless of standard and consequences. Unless a woman is dying for attention of men and is asking out just any man she encounters without scrutinizing them, she cannot be regarded as desperate just for asking out specific one(s) among those whom she has met. I find it difficult to understand what is so desperate about a woman asking a man out when the same woman have no qualm in dressing provocatively to attract men. I am sorry but wearing cleavage revealing tops, tight or transparent outfit, wearing heavy makeup, bleaching cream, are desperate effort by a lot of these women get attention from men. Because women do not mind resorting to these desperate measures to get attention from men, it is cannot be true that these women‘s refusal to make the first move is borne out of wary of being seen as desperate.

Thankfully, we have the Qur’an in our hands and it clearly teaches that the testimony of GOD, Angels and knowledgeable men is:

“There is no god but He (God)” (Quran 3:18)

No more, no less. This completely rubbishes the claims and Hadith that “Muhammad is the messenger” of God is part of the testimony of Islam, inscripted on everything in Heaven.

Quran 3:18
God bears witness that there is no god but He, and (so do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise.

So what is your take on this matter? Make the testimonies or not to make? Did God forget to mention Muhammad in all the testimonies of His oneness throughout Qur’an? Do we know better than God? Is God‘s testimony enough or not?

GOD IS ENOUGH FOR ME.

Quran 39:36
Is not God sufficient for His servant? And they seek to frighten you with those besides Him; and whomsoever Allah makes err, there is no guide for him.



https://flamesoftruth./2014/10/25/testimonies-to-make-or-not-to-make/

As the ulamas(clerics) couldn’t get evidence from the Qur’an for their testimony of faith, they sought an illogical extrapolation, patching a phrase (Muhammad is the messenger of God) from a sentence(48:29) to the testimony of oneness of God from other verses to derive two testimony instead of one;

“There is no god but God and Muhammad is His messenger”

As typical, they supported their stand with fabricated Hadith.

Clearly, they did this out of the misconception that one must accept Muhammad to embrace Islam. They failed to realize that Islam did not start with Muhammad, Muhammad‘s message only confirm the previous ones and not nullify it. They ought to realize that not everyone is chanced to meet Muhammad or confirm his messengership and hence such people are still Muslims provided they believe in God and maintain righteousness. They introduce another name into the creed, sanctifying and venerating, thereby creating division among all believers suppose to be united by their testimony of oneness of God, regardless of their scriptures.

Qur’an 2:62
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans – those who believed in God and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve

Unfortunately mainstream Muslims have strayed far from Islamic ideals. In their bid to implement Qur’an + Sunna(the latter often negating the former), they introduced baseless and sometimes polytheistic elements into the creed. Their persistence upon testifying to the messengership of Muhammad not only misses the Quranic theme of monotheism but contradict common reason.

This is because in order to testify or bear witness, you must have seen what you testify on. For instance, if the court wants someone to testify, they want someone that witnessed the event occur, not someone who learnt it from another person. So, to testify that Muhammad is God‘s messenger today while you have neither seen nor heard him is retarded.

In the 21st century, we cannot testify to the messengership of a man in the 7th century, we can only accept his claim based on present proofs. God is the One we can bear witness to, the Omnipresent and Everlasting.

Additionally, why testify of only Muhammad and neglect other messengers? Paying homage to Muhammad whilst neglecting other messengers constitute giving Muhammad more distinction than the others, a blatant violation of the Qur’an(3:84, 46:9).

Quran 46:9
Say, “I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear Warner.”

Quran 3:84
Say, “We have believed in God and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him“

Note that these Verses set a format for believers to declare their position or belief, there is no special mention of one messenger and omission of another messenger in the words, hence no distinction among the messengers.

Of course, the pioneer Muslims did bear witness to the messengership of Muhammad but this wasn’t another formal testimony of faith coupled with that of the oneness of God to be stated on converting to Islam or during rites. It was no special than bearing witness to the humanity of Muhammad or certain events occurring in their time. In confirmation of this, the Qur’an narrates to us stories of notable conversion to Islam, serving as examples:

Quran 26:46-48
So the magicians fell down in prostration. They said, “We have believed in the Lord of the worlds, the Lord of Moses and Aaron.”

Quran 27:44
She was told, “Enter the palace.” But when she saw it, she thought it was a body of water and uncovered her shins. He said, “Indeed, it is a palace made smooth with glass.” She said, “My Lord, indeed I have wronged myself, and I submit with Solomon to Allah, Lord of the worlds.”

Notice that the Queen and the Magicians didn’t venerate or pay special homage to Solomon or Moses while accepting Islam. All they did was simply declare their submission to God, period.

The testimony (shahada) endorsed by mainstream orthodox Muslims are incorrect. The testimony one is forced to give before posting on this section is not Islamic.

As a side note, there is no need for a public testimony and reception of certificates upon embracing Islam. This practice among mainstream Muslims is baseless, constituting to show off and hypocrisy. Being a Muslim transcend uttering a few words in the midst of a congregation. It is a special relationship between man and God, no human witness is required (Quran 4:79 6:19 29:52).

Quran 4:79
What comes to you of good is from God, but what comes to you of evil, is from yourself. And We have sent you, to the people as a messenger, and sufficient is God as Witness.

The shahadatyn (testimonies) of mainstream Muslims is baseless and the only formal testimony found in the scripture, required of the audience to make is “There is no god except He(God)”. This is a universal and timeless testimony with several variants in the Qur’an (3:18, 6:19 & 20:98). Not even once throughout the Qur’an is “And Muhammad is His messenger” coupled with this testimony about the oneness of God. Is this a coincidence?

This is because Islam is a God centered system, not God + messenger (others). All commemorations and veneration must be focused on God alone, paying no special homage to anyone alongside just as the messengers did (72:18, 20). Those who cannot do this fail a crucial test.

Quran 39:45
And when God is mentioned alone, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when those other than Him are mentioned, they rejoice.

Their persistence in reverence and veneration of other figures whenever they invoke God leave them dissatisfied when God alone is reverenced; a typical trait of idol worshippers. And thus, the end up associating these figures to God(12:106). That was the very problem the Meccan pagans had. They recognized the sovereignty of God but to mention God without adding other figures wasn’t acceptable to them (29:62 63 65).

Nina4u, understand that there are multiple interpretation of Islam. I don't believe Islam is a hate filled religion but the mainstream interpretation of Islam is where the problem lies. If you are curious to find out more, you can join me here; http://free-minds.org/forum

Adanna28:
Why do I sense you have alot of resentment towards women? I mean if you notice other men complimenting women and doing all sorts how does that really take away (if anything) from your life?

Do your male counterparts disgust you so much that they toast or compliment women? I can guarantee you, your father would have complimented your mother surely.

As for saying you would only compliment your girlfriend or fiancee beauty, isn't that rather hypocritical? You say you don't compliment a woman on her beauty because it from God yet you are telling me you would only compliment your partner?

To be honest with you, if you don't share the same sentiments in complimenting a woman on her beauty, I doubt you would be able to compliment the woman (if any) that will marry you.

You are right to a limited extent but you can't compare the relationship between a man and his lover to a man and a woman who happen to just be a friend or stranger.

See here is another thing Adanna28, you find me resentful of women. I am not resentful of women, i am just wary of women and just taking precautions.

Estharfabian:
LoL! Guys Agreeing with this post Are Big Hypocrites...


Well...Op, I think You're Gay....seriously...""

Anyways.... I'm cool with that..! I ain't Homophobic...

You are not serious, are you? Why would a gay who has no romantic interest in women waste his time to write these down?

Adanna28:
Fair enough, you don't have to compliment women if you don't want to, hell you don't even have to phuck women if you don't want to, at the end of the day, you may find this is the life you are comfortable with.

I personally see it as a lonely one, but maybe you prefer isolation.

Oh, i clearly see how most people on this forum won't read and digest simple posts without ambiguity. Did i say that i don't compliment women? I can compliment women for personal accomplishment and success because successful women put an effort to attain success. What i oppose is complimenting women for their beauty because beauty comes from God and beautiful women did not work to earn their beauty. The only woman i may compliment for her beauty is my wife, fiancee or girlfriend

Durenttt:
Useless OP. Who u dey lie for? u for add num 6 say u no dey luk woman yansh na. Na dia u for hear am. Iranu

Is it me you are addressing like that? And yes, it don't stare at women, if that helps you to deal with my write up better.

SkinnyDude:
op will die a virgin

I know that the part I am threading is not an easy one. But patience will pay.

pet4ril:
Are you sure you are visible? I mean...... Are you sure you are human and Norma

Hey, what do you mean?

rawpadgin:
first of, this wasn't written by u

Who wrote it if it wasn't me, the poster? You are not accusing me of plagiarism, are you?

5. Asking out women

I have said enough on this already in my previous thread.

Peace!

4. Chatting online with women:

Whether on BBM, FaceBook, 2GO or Whatsapp chat, women reveal they get so much texts from men that desire more than friendship from them. Firstly, i am more of a reserved and laid back person, so chatting is not really a pastime or hobby for me. Secondly, when i contact women on any social network, i contact only women that i know just to say "Hi" and see how they are coping. The reasons for this being that it is a waste of time and effort. These women won't take you serious if they have no feeling for you or if you don't have money. They never initiate the chat and they leave your message unreplied for long. This is part of the mind games to dissuade you or prove they are hard to get. Of course, you can't really blame them most times for this, afterall men spoil these woman in the first place by showering them with excessive undue attention. And with this much attention, these women become more selective of who is worthy of their time and less considerate of others. If these women do not have many men texting them on daily basis, wooing and flattering them day and night, they may attend to you.

Whether you are getting responses from the ladies you chat with or they waste your time, you have to cut back on the amount of time you devote to them. Your excessive attention to them cost you precious time you could use to build yourself and it also lead these women to become full of themselves, feeling like the perfect woman who has got it all right when in fact many of them have a lot to work on themselves.

3. Asking for women 's number:

If i am attracted to a woman, i strike a casual friendship first, then naturally we exchange contact. Either of us could demand the other 's contact first. I don't just approach a woman i met not long ago and request for her contact. I don't request it from her friend or randomly pick it from her social network account and begin to call her as most guys do. The mind-games these women play with unfamiliar guys calling them to introduce themselves is a major reason why i don't bother getting a woman 's contact whom i barely know. You call them, they never pick. They give flimsy excuses for this like; "i was busy", "i missed my phone", "i was sick'' e.t.c. If they eventually pick, they give the impression that you are stalking or bothering them. I won't advise asking for a woman 's number untill you know her enough and can guarantee she won't act irresponsibly when you call.

2. Impressing Women:

I may dress cool, ride fancy cars, rent expensive apartment, get the latest IPhone if i want. But i do all these to please myself, not to impress the hotie that caught my attention. Unfortunately most guys are willing to rob a bank or gamble for cash to draw women. Whether with ill-gotten money, borrowed, hard earned money, or even their parent 's allowance, these guys take the girl(s) on expensive dates that may leave them broke for quite sometime. Of course, these women only want the men 's money just as the men in most cases only want the women for sex. Why should i work to impress these women who bring nothing to the table except a clayface, cleavage or open bum. Most women are goldiggers and i dont want one.

Another thing i wont do to impress women is changing my personality or attitude. I strive to be a better person day after day. I work hard, show up on time, respect friends and strangers, but unlike most guys i wont act nice or become a bad guy in order to please or attract women. If as a woman you think i am mean because i refuse to have your crap, you can go to Jupiter. If you think i am too nice of a guy and not the alpha male that you desire, you can get lost. Guys that are nice to please women or 'bad boys' to attract women are hypocrites and cowards who live in denial.

In my last thread on this section, i explained that i never ask women out as the society dictates and i presented my reasons. If you missed that thread, you can find it here; Why I Never Ask Out Ladies

But asking out women is just one of the couple of things i seldom do when it pertain to women and relationship. Here are the five things i never do to get women or their attention:

1. Complimenting women.

We 've heard women repeat umpteen times that they like a man who is bold enough and not "afraid" to approach them and complement them. Many men out there compliment these women whom they barely know on all kind of platforms including social network, schools, banks, market, resturants, bars and even on the streets. On social network like Facebook, women post their pictures most likely to draw compliments and before the count of ten, most men are already drooling over the pics, showering her with compliments like; "You look beautiful as always", "You look like an angel or goddess", "You are the sexiest woman i ever met". Sometimes these men even shamelessly compliment women that dress raunchily, exposing all their flesh and curves to garner attention.

It is a mass deception that women love a man bold and not afraid to approach and compliment them. What women actually like is the boost in their ego that your compliments generates, not your person; the man. Many of these women are insecure and need these compliments to boost their ego. They don't realy care about you in a romantic way simply because you do compliment them.

On my end, i may compliment women for their academic, professional achievement, skills, expertise, personality or dress sense because these are results of personal effort and sweat. But i do not compliment women for their looks or God given beauty because this is mere gift from God on a platter of gold, not her reward or fruit of labour.

Just as no one should be complimented for having wealthy parents, no one should be complimented for a pretty face, bosom or backside she was blessed with.

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vedaxcool:
Now you are saying;


But earlier you said



So which is it, did the invasion play a huge role or open a window or what? This is not a discussion about atoms so saying you believe is not necessary in the face of facts everyone can see.




US presence in Iraq invited Alqaeda a group that was present in fact the US actions managed to give alqaeda some credence that the US had designs against muslims this did more to inspire alqaeda and its sympathizers who came from various foreign countries, which became Alqaeda in Iraq then Islamic State of Iraq then ISIL then IS, may be due to the length of the documentary you watch just some few portion or did pay attention to it, even Blair accepts their invasion has a nexus with ISIL. Like I said Camp Buka



The US invasion of Iraq threw out a largely secular regime and replaced with chaos which allowed fringe groups and movements to flourish and grow. When Alqaeda was becoming a huge bone in the neck of the US invasion, the US secured the Sunni Arabs tribes in Iraq buy-in in fighting alqaeda who eventually drove alqaeda down. Underline the word Sunni Arabs.



Lol 18 of the 27 ISIL leaders are from Camp Buka a camp that existed due to US invasion, an invasion that invited foreign fighters from everywhere the camp was a camp that was managed by the US. The US invasion nurtured and nestle very deadly groups due to the short sighted nature of US foreign policies. If 18 of 27 ISIL leaders were literally under the noses of the US then what does that tell you. It seems you didn't watch or comprehend the documentary. If you watch the documentary the Iraq national Security Adviser said the US repeatedly made several mistakes when occupying Iraq, this mistakes is what lead to where we are, as for Syria, the same Security Adviser said he reportedly provided evidence to Assad that his security operatives were supporting Jihadis, transporting them, providing them support, Yet Assad lied as usual and pretended he had not hand in it, this happened long before ISIL came to being, the Security Adviser told Assad something, They(Syria) are making a big mistake which they would live to regret. Why was Assad supporting the muderous in Iraq, because he thought the US had Syria next on its menu. But It seems this will all fall on deaf ears as usual. One funny thing about ISIL is that they cried (their battle logic) about Saddam being murdered, they joined the baathist who were their persecutors to fight the US then after the Iraqi government this keeps showing the insincere that ISIL is more of power than religion.

I maintain my position, US invasion of Iraq is partly responsible for the state of emergency in Iraq today. This does not imply that the US invasion can be blamed for the rise of ISIS, brutality and persistence of ISIS in 2015. And I ain't contradicting myself on this at all because the insurgent group(Al Qaeda) that broke loose in 2003 is not the insurgent group(ISIS). Al Qaida in mid 2000s were purely against US and demanded immediate withdrawal of US troops. They saw the US war against Saddam as US war on Muslims. So they struck. They weren't targeting houses of worship, kidnapping and enslaving civilians, carrying out mass attack on Heretics or non-Muslims or forcing their beliefs on anyone.

So now in 2015, we have an insurgent group like ISIS on murderous rampage to seize towns that are not occupied by US troops, yet we should still believe that the US invasion is behind this? Yes, I watched the documentary but it was nothing insightful. ISIS targets, goals, modus operandi prove the group emergence has nothing to do with Bush 's invasion.
ISIS is a splinter group of that Al Qaeda and while it is true that some of it militants were originally of Al Qaeda, their motivation in ISIS differ from in Al Qaeda.

kazlaw2000:
You have a point there. But pls re-expkain your views about about suuratu ghaafir, verses 11 and 46. That dream analogy you used doesn't sound convincing enough. Are u through with your research? Suuratu ghaafir verse 46 states, using your interpretation "the soul of the disbelievers will be exposes to hell morning and night". This would be no dream. But a reality after death and BEFORE day of resurrection as stated in the latter part if the verse.

I didn't say it is all a dream, forget about the analogy with the dream anyway. I will give a direct clarification here.

You understand that life mean body + soul. All we are told in the Quran is upon death, the soul is taken by God and withheld by him(Qur'an 39:42). The souls in God possession are shown and know their ultimate fate. This is what I understand by Qur'an 40:46. Disbelievers' exposure to hell day and night basically mean disbelievers' souls withheld by God will be constantly shown their fate.
The body itself is in the grave at rest and isn't exposed to what the soul is. But once the soul is restored to the body and the body awaken by God, the body realizes or learns everything.

Peace!

kazlaw2000:
Having read all prior comments, I think there is actually no contradiction. My PERSONAL OPINION, based on all evidences provided are listed thus:
1. We shall all experience 2 deaths. The first is the earthly death and the second is the death in Barzakh.
2. After the earthly death, there is punishment for the body for it sins as described by Hadith's. May Allaah save us from it. There is also good tiedings for those that do good. This will continue till the second death.
3. PEHARPS, the second death is the sleeping or rest before the day of judgement when we shall be woken up by the trumpet. So it will be as if everybody was woken from sleep. Wallaaahu A'laam

Another problem with this view of Barzakh being the second life to be followed by another death is the life after Barzakh(commencing with ressurection and Judgement) becomes the third life. This is another contradiction that is easily spotted if we agree that there are just 2 death and 2 lives for each person, as relevant verses like Qur'an 44:10 & 2:28 confirms.

I believe, US invasion did open a window for Al Qaida (from which ISIS emerged). However, ISIS rise, brutality, perseverance and success till date has nothing to do with US invasion. It is due to:

1. The sectarian divide in political and religious affairs of the Iraqi society. The bitter resentment of the Sunnis for the Maliki Administration especially when Iranian regime entered the picture.

2. Orthodox Islam in general which is the driving ideology of ISIS all radical Muslim groups. The belief in the obligation of a caliphate for Muslims and full implementation of Shariah.

3. The Syrian civil war. I mean, how many Iraqi town fall to ISIS before this? Even without a power vacuum from a US invasion, see how far ISIS have gone in Syria. Vedaxcool; doesnt this cement my opinion that there exist enough crystal balls to prove ISIS could have emerged in the future even without overthrow of Saddam Hussein?

vedaxcool:

Laughing? Since you think this is a joke, we will see who have the last laugh. In your own words;

vedaxcool: Isis like thaba stated is an extremist group, the only reason they have so far succeeded is simply becos the locals have supported them out of desperation and sectarinism of the maliki govt. What the war on terror has so far succeeded in doing is creating more terrorism. One can only wonder what the end of all this will look like?

www.nairaland.com/1792564/caliphate-declaration-views

Here are the facts;

Before 2014, ISIS was not a formidable threat in the middle east. ISIS only declared their caliphate last year after exploiting the Syrian revolution, garnering enough firepower and manpower to cross over to Iraq where the Maliki government have long succeeded in suppressing them. This is over 10 years since the invasion and 3 years since US troops withdrew from Iraq, yet we are still repeatedly been fed with the same propaganda that US invasion precipitated the rise of ISIS.