Did Paul have this INHERENT ABILITY TO PERFORM MIRACLES AND WONDERS?
You must understand that I have little tolerance for idiocy and harebrained gutter theology such as 'an unknown tongue is different from speaking in tongues'. If you subscribe to such, steer clear of my path because armed with the Sword of the Spirit I demolish them...all for your good
The very word that assure you of casting out demons but you hide behind somebody's skirts at the mention of the name demon-possessed
shdemidemi: If that qualifies you to be called a prophet, then you really are one. Cos twenty tears from now, I will definitely say the same thing as scripture allude. NO MAN HAS AN INHERENT ABILITY TO PERFORM MIRACLES AND WONDERS
God's word is sufficient- The word says 'Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away'. God isn't speaking to us through signs like he did to Moses or Israel today. Rather, He speaks through His Word alone.
Please show your unique miracles so we see if it can pass scrutiny. Admit there is no miracle to show and stop hoaxing thyself.
Munroe's trade is no different from Kaplan or Drucker or any other management guru seminars. That's business and not selling the gospel for a fee.
And that's where you get it wrong; assuming that every word coming out of a minister is a sermon
WinsomeX: You justify the message a man preaches bc there is a ready demand for such services? Haba vooks. You could do better than this.
I have a friend who teaches Leadership and I encouraged him greatly on his career. But I also made it clear to him that what he is teaching is not the gospel and should never been seen as ministry. That's where the likes of Munroe get it wrong. Preaching motivations and leadership in the name of Christian ministry.
The same Munroe is known for making many anti Christian remarks. Now he dies and some say the body of Christ has lost someone. I have never seen Munroe and those he flock with as gospel ministers bc they do not preach the gospel. It is sentiments like that of nanny up there that give these men relevance and does not help us preserve the gospel from perversion.
Munroe made his money speaking and writing. His audience was not always Christian or churches and that's why I excuse him charging. I observed him preaching in churches and then giving talks from five-star hotels which were exorbitantly priced. One may want to question the value of those talks but it's clear there was (is) a ready demand for these services
WinsomeX: With all due respect to the dead, there is still no justification for a so called minister of God to charge money for a ministration, leadership or otherwise.
When men die, they are usually remembered for how they live not how they died.
I would have been happy that Myles Munroe was known strictly for motivation speaking and leadership training. That will be understandable. But for one to own a church and then claim to be a motivational speaker is to preach Another Gospel.
I think Nora should be permitted her criticism. If these men will not hear us when they are alive, I hope they or their followers will hear when they are dead.
The issue of miracles being exploited don't invalidate the teaching. Many have been brought under bondage by a distorted teaching of the Amazing Grace or holiness. We may as well say that only the atheist is truly immune from spiritual abuse
shdemidemi: Unfortunately, not all of them will be exposed. We will always have these tares among the wheat, it is the duty of anyone seeking God to discern and look introspectively on why they became christians.
If you think Jesus died so you can have a good marriage, you will definitely fall victim to a charlatan who claims he was called to marriage ministry. If what you lust over is money or more money, your 'pastor' will be the prosperity swindler. One will always find a pastor for what they lust over, i.e you will always find a pastor for what really is your 'god'.
But if the reason you came is to know God, you will definitely find a place where God alone is taught. Jeremiah 29 13 If you look for me wholeheartedly, you will find me.
Well, did I not prophesy about you regurgitating this twenty years from now?
Miracles are unique. Jesus never called fire from heaven, he only forbade some overzealous disciples from doing so. Paul nearly drowned. Jesus used boats severally. In short you are asking the impossible to justify your impotence
I gave up debating you when your theory of unknown tongue vs tongues was debunked and you played dumb instead of owning up to your errors.
shdemidemi: miracles in scriptures, we both agree. Give one name of a person who has this supernatural power asides medicine.
I believe who matter-God, miracles or not. All I ask is that man who can call fire from heaven like Elijah, walk on water like Jesus, bring the dead to life like Peter all in the name of Jesus.
Come think of it, why should we be struggling to find one name, when these things should just be a daily occurrence for every christian as you claim.
You don't need too much fund to display these miracles on youtube these days. you claim to have this power, show us so we can verify your claims as well.
1. Men can only treat diseases. This is not inherent power but rather a product of thousands of years of inquiry called medicine. God working through men heals just as it is recorded in the scriptures.
2. How frequent should miracles be to convince you?
3. Says who? The churches have the motivation and funds to publicize their miracles more than individuals
It's vooks not voodka If you ask one too many questions some of which are leading you may not get answers and the inability to answer you will have nothing to do with your wisdom the accuracy of your convictions
chysam: Voodka, I challenge any pro-tither to "SINCERELY" answer these few questions.Providing his answers directly from the new testament scriptures where our records as "CHRISTIANS" can be found. 1.Did the early church pay or receive tithes of any kind? 2.Is there any record in the Bible showing how christians raised money to run their ministry? 3.If there is,does it have any correlation with the judaism practice of tithing? 4.All the apostles took turns in preaching to their congregations just like todays pastors do,can any pro-tither show us where they asked the congregants to tithe to them or bring foods to the storehouse of the apostles? 5.Why was it unneccessary to the apostles to slaughter animals for sacrifice and also receive tithes for their upkeep? 6.Were the Levite priests commanded to carry out their duties freely? 7.Who were commanded to carry out their duties freely and who commanded them? 8.Why is it unimportant for todays christians to raise funds in exactly the same way the early christians did?.Change of times? 9.Was the curse in Malachi also applicable to the apostles and the early christians? 10.If jesus taught that tithing is an "UNIMPORTANT" matter to a christian,who then popularised it and made it "GREATLY" important to a point of non adherance will be a hinderance to ones progress and success,against what christ taught?. I sincere answers to the above questions would give a good christian a clue where he stands between judaism practices of old and what christ taught. The only worry I have is that no pro-tither would attempt to answer these question or try to answer using references from the gospels.
So it is foolhardy for God to require money but not so when it comes to redeeming the tithe? Did you know a tithe was redeemed with 120% of its estimated worth using money?
Please don't display your confusion. Paper money was non-existent. They had precious metal, gold and silver of varying weights for legal tender. Recall Judas was paid in thirty silver coins. This started LONG before Moses. Why would Achan take all the trouble to hide silver and gold in Joshua 7? Precious metal was both a store of value and unit of exchange
There was no arbitrariness in the manner in which a tithe was to be offered, it was strictly in kind and non farmers were under no obligation to tithe
Bidam: A simple common sense really. God NEVER gave man paper money. He gave man LAND as seen from the garden of Eden. It will be foolhardy for God to require paper money from man which is a medium of exchange or a legal tender used instead of the conventional and unorthodox trade by barter used for centuries.
A man's wealth is measured in land acquisition never in coins or paper money.Like i told zikkyy, the antithing mantraa of the tithes being ONLY agric is false and an error, no one is stopping the tither from SELLING a piece LAND( Joseph) and using a medium of exchange called money to give the Apostles(Acts 4:36). Abraham tithes was NEVER AGRIC. Everything we have on EARTH is gotten from land whether paper money,gold, diamond, oil, corn, wine etc. even man and animal was created from the dust of the earth.
The key word is WHETHER. leviticus is NOT a definition of tithe. Let's look at it once again.
Leviticus 27:30-33,
"And all the tithe of the land (God is taking to the children of Israel), [size=16pt]whether[/size] of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lords: it is holy unto the Lord. And if a man will redeem aught of his tithe, he shall add unto it a fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and that for which it is changed shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed."
Whether is a conjunction word used in indirect questions or used to offer CHOICES OR ALTERNATIVES. If it's the tither choice to offer his tenth as money to God so be it. Abel's offerings can't be the same as Cain. Jacob's vow of tithe can't be the same as Abraham. Even the Levites tithed through Abraham. In other words it predated the LAW and your life, just as Jesus predated the LAW.
If you want to use another lame and weak argument like circumcisions you can go ahead but also you will be ready to shun all dubious claims on marriage, worship, clothing and human government which have their foundation in the book of Genesis and since we know Christianity has its roots from Judaism you cannot discard one while holding on to the rest.
Moses wrote Genesis and Apart from Christ no MAN has the revelation of what God intends for his people like Moses not even Paul.
If you claime to be inspired and your doctrines inspired and then you say something dumb, you are busted....you may withdraw and in so doing prove you are not inspired or persist in the dumbness to save face.
Their stance on this teaching is just that, they are too embarrassed of withdrawing.
The average JW will regurgitate EXCLUSIVELY Watchtower BS including its pseudo-academic ctreatment of such subjects.
Sarassin: Well, I am curious, why is it that JW's do not accept that Jesus was crucified on the cross? And how is that position justified.... If indeed true?
Here is an excellent and simplified account of what tithing meant to Jews. Tithing from scriptures and history was without exception agricultural. Let tithers explain who mandated them to refine/modify it to include money while restricting it to 10% and not 20% per annum and another 10% every third year http://www.thejournal.org/studylibrary/tithe-in-the-bible/three-tithes-of-israel.html
Boss13, Consider these facts before 'debunking' another testimony. The only worse thing than a charlatan is a careless skeptic who won't be confused with facts;
1. It is perfectly normal for a church co-worker to be prayed for,to recieve healing and to testify. It is also quite possible that the joy joined ushering AFTER the said miracle. So what he does at that church does not tell you nothing.bthat said, I posted a video of a pastor who used his co-workers to air false testimonies,sing in the choir, recieve calls and extort money....
2. Asthmatics don't display ALL those symptoms at once and if they did, some would not be easily picked from a video. Besides, asthma has degrees. Any medics in the house?
3. So he gets prayed for after testifying? This may be your only smoking gun. You just don't have enough to run with it. What I have observed is the immense pressure to 'believe God and deny doctors' report' such that sick folks abandon drugs BEFORE they are healed as a 'sign of faith',confess they are healed BEFORE they are healed apparently to draw healing virtue, and pretend the obvious symptoms of their ailments are not there especially where it is not too dangerous to do so. Anything short of this is 'lack of faith' which is a stigma. May be the dude did just that. Be as it may, if he felt well after prayers enough to testify and Joagbaje perceives he is still not fully recovered, where is the problem?
Boss13: Okay Folks, I have been trying to get the full clip of the video posted by Joagbaje claiming to healed Jeff of HIV. Well thanks to SirJohn, we now know that such miracle never existed. Folks, I want you to watch the second person with a discerning mind. He is an Usher in Joagbaje church, an employee. I do not want to assume he was induced by Joagbaje to give his testimony, I will leave that to you. His name is Uwem. He got me more interested than Jeff, in him you would see and understand the kind of person Joagbaje is.
Uwem came to give testimony about experiencing pains in the chest and after Joagbaje prayed, the pains left instantly. Folks, that's supposed to be a miracle right. Now at 06:43 Joagbaje started praying for him again - Why? This guy just claimed to be alright, Why another prayer session? Guess what, the prayer session turned around to become an exorcism and a supposed demon possessing the young man. At 07:33, you will notice Joagbaje communicating with the demon and the supposed demon claimed he has destroyed the young man's life . At 11:16, Joagbaje asked him (after the exorcism had been performed) what sickness does he usually experience and he said asthma. Now remember this was a man who claimed to have been healed .
Below are symptoms of asthmatic patients
Frequent cough, especially at night Losing your breath easily or shortness of breath Feeling very tired or weak when exercising Wheezing or coughing after exercise Feeling tired, easily upset, grouchy, or moody Decreases or changes in lung function as measured on a peak flow meter Signs of a cold or allergies (sneezing, runny nose, cough, nasal congestion, sore throat, and headache) Trouble sleeping
The guy does not look like someone who has any of the symptoms mentioned above.
12:33 got me laughing, Joagbaje was pretending to be crying when he said wealth and prosperity. I presumed he did not want to finish the statement.
Folks, Uwem is an Usher in Joagbaje's church, an employee who works for Joagbaje and should be well known to Joagbaje. I do not want to conclude for you all. Enjoy
Here is my own brand of atheism which I pray all Christians subscribe; total disbelief/unbelief in goDs where goDs are defined as delusional primates who have regular Divinity hallucinations
There is something about making proselytes twice as son of hell. If you tell them that their faith is useless because they are 'just' forgiven, you beat Jews in looking for a sign. That's not faith growing into something, that's faith diluted. That's John the Baptist wondering whether Jesus is the Messiah halfway through his assignment
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
There is a faith for salvation from sin, forgiveness and one for healing etc for self. Good. But until one's faith is used in service for others then that faith is still in the confines of selfishness and Christ hasn't been fully formed in such a person because true faith is motivated by love for others.
There is a world of sick, broke, depressed and frustrated men. A rendezvous of broken humanity. Are we to tell them to remain that way till the next world or can we do something about it through faith? Paul says faith works by love (Galatians 5:6).
So let that faith grow away from just receiving forgiveness. Let it also help heal sick but forgiven men. Ciao.
Why would our superhero need to fly across Africa to heal something that's right in his country?
Wait......
Luke 4:27 (ESV) 27 And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian
Boss13: Of course there was no Ebola in Tanzania. Ebola is remote in west africa and has not moved to east africa. Everybody knows that. Did Joagbaje claimed he healed an ebola patient in Tanzania?
The idea is to draw attention to themselves and not God. This is why 'private' miracles will never be broadcasted by their churches. So pastor prays for a headache and it's gone? That's Youtube-worthy. A prayer warrior powerfully intercedes for her kid who just gulped rat poison and he lives. Keep it to yourself
The churches are least interested in in miracles they can't directly take credit for. The reason is these are least likely to attract more members/offerings to them
flyca: I have always wondered why "healing" in churches should be publicized? Not like there is a church activity and the normal videoing. But going to the extent of editing videos using past prayers series to validate the "healing" and then uploading on YouTube or broadcasting on TV stations just "hours of healing/ miracles". Why? Why?? Why
Even when they say "Its to give Glory to God", I still can't wrap it round my head. Even if there was healing in any case, why will the Pastor be so intrested in publicizing it? Is this what the bible teaches. Jesus, in all the accounts of him we have, he never mentioned to anyone that he healed another. It is not important. It has nothing to do with Salvation of Souls which was what his ministry on earth was about, and which is what we ough to follow. It was the people that were impacted by his healings that went round telling others about the Man who healed them, who told them who there were. So it is the testifers business to spread the Word, not the Pastor! How much more bragging about it online?! How much more betting money to it?!
To me, its pure advertisement, nothing more. Which invariably makes it business!
After having followed this topic for a long time now, ordinarily, I should have given a conclusion but for the benefit of doubt, I join my voice with that of some former posters to pls I appeal to Joagbage to upload an entirely new evidence of someone that was healed of an obvious ailment like blindness at birth, polio etc and has stayed healed for a period of time (3 years or more will do). This will help to vindicate you that you were unaware of Jeff's pranks. Help our unbelief.
Nowadays if you are not performing miracles,prophesying or 'prospering' your congregation, you are nobody.
So you have fake prophecies,miracles and bogus prosperity teachings to excite and attract the masses. In this environment, Joagbaje would be more than eager to broadcast 'miracles'
Maybe Joagbaje can redeem himself by subjecting another of his 'many' miracles to examination
christemmbassey: you are not totaly correct, pastor Jo of CEC Bayelsa, is not an 'accused' person but proven 'GUILTY' man, Jo commited a BIG FRAUD if it was a regular court, Jo should be in jail by now, all these 'non due deligence' nonsense, is like trying to rationalised a non repentant thief action, by saying, the property owner did not use a good lock. As far as I am concern, Jo did what he did with clear intention to decieve, Jn 4:1 . I pray God give him the grace to repent and forsake nollywood in church of Jesus. And for those that are shamelessly suporting this fraud, keep on decieving urselves there really will be drama on judgement day.
It is well my brother. Those two extremist positions are toxic
I just won't go as far as claiming their faith is invalid if they have nothing to show by way of the miraculous
mbaemeka: Brother, there is no need for the front and backs. My words very clear and my concomitant explanations were equally as clear. The 2 people I engaged in the cause of making that statement are professed christians who say
1. No christian has the Holy Spirit in him 2. The Holy Spirit's role as it was in the early church has ended.
You have engaged number 2 and you didn't sway him even if the both of you kept tossing scriptures at each other. What you didn't know about Number 2 is that you were right in saying with his style of discussing scriptures he would still maintain his beliefs in the next 20 years. We can readily prove it by viewing his past exchanges with people from last year to the year before on the same issues. What that brother needs is a demonstration and not the endless arguments.
I have few words for the number one because he is even more confused. Try telling him from scripture that the Holy Spirit enables you to speak in tongues amd watch him tell you that you do not have him in you. Then let me see you debate scriptures with him.
As per my claims, I would not be retracting them as they are not wrong and I can back them up with many scriptures. I never said seeing is believing. I said if you believe something long enough you will see it. So it is not about using miracles to convince anyone. It is about proving that what I believe is right by demonstrating it and showing that it works. Thank you.
The HIV 'testimony' was broadcasted in November last year. One of the snitches left the month three months ago and was there for only three months.
This is quite recent stuff.
The HIV guy reminds me of Joagbaje's clip
SirJohn: This video documentary is a must watch, it looks like its a very recent stuff. if only we can pull off something like this in Nigeria. I'm shocked people will go some crazy length to deceive. Kudos to those brave church workers who agreed to expose their fraudulent 'daddy'
My brother, I know too well that a Mount Carmel experience is most believer's nirvana where raw power of God settles argument. And I know one too many urban legends along those lines. Those are EXCEPTION and extremely rare. How many believers turn to Christ out of the miraculous? Very few. Am one of them. Look at the church history. Was the church sustained by the miraculous? For a better part of its life, Christianity was just about as miraculous as atheism. And even today, it is largely propelled by anything but the miraculous.
In Acts 2, it was Peter's preaching not tongues that drew them to God. The tongues MERELY aroused their curiosity and actually caused a significant number to dismiss them as drunks.
Your two sentences below shows your intention and mindset; no power, no faith. Once again,this statement is in bad taste. You will only believe God if you saw miracles, otherwise he is as powerful as Shiva.
Remember the rich man in hell;
Luke 16:29 -31 (KJV) Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Recall also Jesus' words;
Matthew 11:20-24 (KJV) Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
They witnessed Jesus at His finest and repented not. Who told you that miracles quadrupled today among Christians would draw more men and demolish arguments?
I have nothing else to add apart from appeal to you to withdraw those words in blues. Thank you
mbaemeka: How can you prove the message you believe is right and what others believe is wrong?
Are we to trade words till eternity? If what you believe is true let God back it up or else we can assume he doesn't exist.
mbaemeka: I said John did NO SIGNS (i.e didn't heal the sick etc.) and that is exactly what the bible said: signs and not MIRACLES. A miracle does not have to be spectacular. What qualifies anything to be called a miracle is it's supernatural descent, cause or initiation. In that sense, John's ability to identify the Messiah was nothing short of miraculous. That's all I have said.
Here is the reasoning. If Jesus had done no signs, wonders, mighty deeds but he was able to tell the woman at the well her life history she would have still referred to him as a Prophet even though the multitudes would have been right in saying Jesus performed no signs. She would have been right in calling Jesus a Prophet because he did something miraculous by telling her things about herself that she didn't expect anyone else to know let alone a Jewish stranger. It was miraculous because he could have only known it beyond natural means A.K.A supernaturally.
The emboldened doesn't bother me. He proved his office by identifying the Christ- healing the sick et al albeit wonderful add or take nothing away from his calling.
That word only is very strong. You might do me well to point where I said that is the only way to distinguish one message from another. The point I was trying to make is for e.g someone says the name of Jesus is not for the church. Jesus only said it to the "Jewish believers" and they were able to latch-on to what the Holy Spirit was doing post-Pentecost that is why the signs and wonders were possible then. And I refute that statement by saying Jesus was referring to all those who believe in him, How are we to resolve the issue? I can take up a case (Like meeting a demoniac) and I can cast out that demon to prove to the cessation guy that the word still works. That is the best way to settle the dispute instead of the endless quibbling over words and Paul shares sentiments with me. Read him:
1 Corinthians 2:4-5Amplified Bible (AMP) 4 And my language and my message were not set forth in persuasive (enticing and plausible) words of wisdom, but they were in demonstration of the [Holy] Spirit and power [[a]a proof by the Spirit and power of God, operating on me and stirring in the minds of my hearers the most holy emotions and thus persuading them],
5 So that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men (human philosophy), but in the power of God.
Ofcourse no. I believed the word before I saw anything and I recommend it for all christians but I have found out from experience that if you believe something (the bible way), you would act like it is true and you will doubtless see that it is.
Let me share the story I heard from someone about a show where they brought a christian and some atheist or Pagan I don't know, to debate on the verisimilitude of the word of God and Christianity as a whole. The show began with the Atheist saying all sorts of blasphemous things about the bible while the christian looked on. When the atheist seemed to be getting too far the Christian instructed the demon talking through that atheist to come out in the name of Jesus. There and then, the atheist started manifesting and the debate was ended. You see, what he could not do by arguing the logos with the atheist with persuasive words he did by simply demonstrating the power of the word. That is the level we ought to be at.
One pastor said he went to India to preach and as soon as he brought out his bible the people there in brought out many other religious books like the Koran etc. Whenever the Pastor said A they would read something else from those other books that seemed to contradict what the Pastor had said and then ask him which they should now believe. The Pastor left India sad. Years later and after seeking the Lord he went back to India and as usual he met those folks who liked to refer to the words of other books. This time around the Pastor came prepared. When those folks tried to contradict him, he looked for a sick person and commanded the ailment to check out in Jesus' name and it did then he asked them to do same in the name of whatever deity they believed in and of course, nothing happened. Debate ended, now they had to believe in the bible. Someone said, what if the Indians performed a bigger sign than the Pastor and I said how could that be? At the mention of the name of Jesus, every other power bows. That's what the bible says and I believe it.
We have one verse by John's contemporaries who listened him and watched his prophecies/teachings about Jesus come to pass. They saw no MIRACLES. Whatever supernatural thing John orchestrated, he did no miracle. Can't get simpler than that. If we are to doubt their no-miracle observation, we may as well doubt their testimony to the accuracy of his teachings on Jesus
Imagine how scanty John's life details are and John will not bother correcting the erroneous notion he observed made about the greatest of all OT prophets. Luke told us that Jesus went about doing good. May be He didn't it is Luke who THOUGHT He did.
I did not get your question.
About signs and wonders, I will dig deeper and engage you.
Does it bother you that the greatest of all OT prophets did no miracles and he was effective? You said the only thing that distinguishes one message from the other are signs otherwise we will be arguing till eternity. You basically scoffed at a the very thought of propagating the gospel without any signs and miracles. You were not arguing about the existence of miracles but the necessity of the same for sharing Christ. Please withdraw that statement.
mbaemeka: How can you prove the message you believe is right and what others believe is wrong?
Are we to trade words till eternity? If what you believe is true let God back it up or else we can assume he doesn't exist.
Must God back his word with signs else He does not exist to you? Blessed are they who believe without seeing
mbaemeka: No they don't go hand in hand per se and a miracle is not ALWAYS spectacular- but it is ALWAYS supernatural so the claim that John did nothing supernatural is false.
I asked questions and none has been attempted by the both of you. I never claimed that John healed the sick or turned water to wine whether in public or secret. The bible says John was a Prophet and as such he proved his calling by spotting out the Messiah from a large crowd.
I hope you know that we have more knowledge about Jesus now than John did back then. So that should help you factor in how much of a prophet he truly was and how supernatural picking and baptizing Jesus was. Others believed in Jesus' calling when they saw the signs, but John spotted Jesus out without a single sign- he knew by revelation of the spirit and that my friends is not natural!
The bible also says Abraham and David were Prophets and they too had no signs but some of the things they were able to see in the realm of the spirit and also say out made them Prophets. So let us consider the message holistically. That aside, I never said anyone's christianity was proven by his wealth or ability to wrought miracles. We should however be wary of those who rule out its existence, possibility or necessity. Also, if anyone who calls himself a christian believes in the word of God with his spirit, it is only a matter of time. The belief will show up in signs, wonders, miracles and mighty deeds and I stand by that.
Prayer predators is an expose on a charlatan who purports to heal all manner of diseases including Aids/HIV
The investigative journalists unearthed his tricks of trade including 1. Fake testimonies 2. Coached testimonies 3. Stage magic- fake blood.... 4. The enterprise/money aspect of the ministry 5. Fake prophecies 6.cold reading
The most outstanding thing about the documentary is the EVIDENCE 1. Confession of ex-accomplices 2. Hidden cameras
Bidam: vooks could you kindly explain along few lines what prayer predator is all about?
The point is, there was something John lacked compared to Jesus and His disciples. No signs nor wonders did John perform. They go hand in hand those two. The guys who said he did no signs were privy to his oratorical skills and their effects yet they said he did no miracle. Whatever supernatural measure manifested in him,he did NO MIRACLE.
The bible said SIGNS for that was the actual translation in greek. The word frequently used for Jesus MIRACLES was ERGO meaning deeds, acts etc. So yes John did no SIGNS but he walked in the miraculous and that's what I am trying to show you.
1. John could SEE the Holy Spirit descend on Jesus. 2. John's baptism could Elicit such an occurrence 3. When John preached people's hearts burned with fire. The same way the bible says when Jesus opened the understanding of his disciples on the journey along Emmaus they too felt their hearts burn with fire. It was more than a mere preaching brother. It was the type of conviction that made them believe the word enough to stake their lives for it, something they weren't ready to do just a few days earlier.
NB: I didn't say he did his miracles to ONLY his disciples. I said it was the multitude of Jews that said to themselves "this man didn't show any SIGNS like healing the sick, raising the dead etc. But it was divine for him to spot Jesus out" (same way it was divine for Peter to call Jesus the Christ, the son of God).
Also, the Holy Spirit let us even know the words of the devil and of liars. It doesn't mean whatever they said was true.
2 things 1. The Bible says miracles but may be the Greek admits. 2. The Holy Spirit preserved this and why would He not correct it if it were erroneous?
If he did his miracles ONLY to his disciples, how were they beneficial to the people? Imagine if ONLY the twelve watched Jesus 'in action' He was a preacher, that's why they repented. For hundreds of years, preaching ALONE spread Christianity. What was different about The man come in the spirit and Power of Elijah?
mbaemeka: 2 things a) John did no SIGNS b) The people said. Not the disciples.
Now tell me, the ability to spot out the Messiah from a large crowd of people or to see the Holy Spirit descend on him is it short of miraculous? What about how John preached to the point that people's hearts began to born with fire and a strong zeal to repent was it also short of miraculous? Was John's Water baptism ordinary?
John 10:41 King James Version (KJV) 41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
John must have been a hopelessly boring prophet; all talk and no show
mbaemeka: How can you prove the message you believe is right and what others believe is wrong?
Are we to trade words till eternity? If what you believe is true let God back it up or else we can assume he doesn't exist.
Candour: Really?? I thought you're intelligent? Videos? Hmm. I met one CEC media staff at a conference once and the way she spoke so glowingly of your media arm, I doubt there's any photo and film trick Hollywood invents that you won't be able to mimic. My friend, leave all those una videos. This is the last place you should bring such as 'proof' for anything except your dexterity at altering reality.
He doesn't need validation and yet he opens countless threads to tell NL he heals? Your man is dangerously narcissistic. He needs public acclaim like air. You should help him instead of encouraging him on.
As for quarell, whenever I remember you also played football at St Murumba field, even if I dey vex, I go just chill. So we won't quarell. I've pointed out what I wanted with the tithe reference and I trust you got the message.
Christianity Etc › Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 3:49pm On Nov 16, 2014
