₦airaland Forum

RichyBlacK:
When making a point, you do not always need to quote a source, you can actually construct an argument by using several facts.

*It well-known that the feminists movement spearheaded the wide adoption of "no-fault" divorce in the West (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism). *Cheating is considered a form of emotional abuse.
*Bill cheated on Hilary (many times with different women )
*Feminists are opposed to all forms of abuse to women (physical, emotional, etc.)
*It is reasonable to assume that feminists will want the abuse on Hilary by Bill to stop.
*A welcomed option for stopping the abuse is divorce.
*Feminists will see Hilary as enabling Bill by remaining in the marriage.
*Solely based on the philandering ways of Bill and Hilary remaining by his side, feminists have no reason to be proud of Hilary.

Construction complete. Tell me what you disagree with.

let me construct something for you

oranges grow on trees
apples grow on trees
oranges are fruits
apples are fruits
oranges are round
apples are round

therefore apples and oranges are the same.


my point: there are so many holes in your construction.

Old story. We all know men and women are equal, even the bible says so. Does that make us all feminists?

no. many people use the bible to support their claims that men and women are NOT equal.

again. just in case you missed the definition:

fem·i·nism (fĕm'ə-nĭz'əm) pronunciation
n.

1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2. The movement organized around this belief.

UNICEF is pursuing the same goals, it is not a feminist organisation!

yeah. UNICEF is definitely a pro-feminist organization.
esp. with the fact that most of it's work is concentrated with third world countries where women's rights aren't advanced.






I'll place a bet that many of those females you mention (even if i've never heard of them) are feminists.

davidylan:
Is this a fact or just your oppinion? It's getting very difficult to differentiate between the two now. What of Benazir Bhuto, President in a country where women are not even allowed to attend college, was she a feminist?

i don't know who Benazir Bhuto is.
but you can listen to the closing comments in BBC interview with sirleaf.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials/924_interview_archiv/index.shtml
and most especially read one of her interviews here.

http://www.theperspective.org/articles/1004200501.html

read the parts in bold.



Is Africa ready for a woman president?

Oh yes, definitely. Africa is ready for a woman president. The continent has many strong professional women in very key positions and they have demonstrated competence and courage. So the population is ready, the challenges and responsibility will be great and if elected, I will make sure the doors are open and I will demonstrate in every way that women are equal and they excel because of the extra-sensitivity and honesty they bring to the task beyond professionalism. With the example of professionalism and honesty set at the highest level, we will see more women challenging and winning.

Improving the conditions women working in now with NGOs…

Women have not enjoyed the same opportunities as men in our traditions. Usually women got married too early. Whenever there was a choice to send a boy child or a girl child to school, the boy got sent to school to become a professional while the girl got married to become a housewife. So we will work hard on gender equality by stressing the education for girls. We are also concerned about our market women, many of whom are illiterate. We will prioritize adult literacy programs so that they can learn to read and write. At the professional level, we will stress the presence of women without sacrificing competence and qualifications. It will be like putting in place a sort of “affirmative action” plan for women.

About America’s influence on her policies

My broad experience is really beaded in my country. That experience comes from the background of my parents who were from an indigenous stock but benefited from the settlers’ culture. My family’s past has shaped my views about what needs to be done for the rural population. My professional life has not just been in the US. I have done lot of work around the world, especially living and working in other parts of Africa on development issues. My views and experience go beyond America, although I have learned much from there through my education and work. I also value some of the ideals of democracy in America, such as freedom of speech and association and others things that we might want to emulate in Liberia.

RichyBlacK:
Sources:
1. http://www.newstatesman.com/200311170040
2. http://www.thenation.com/doc/19990809/kaminer

quote from this source of yours:
"I was dumbfounded when, during the Monica scandal, countless feminists came out and defended him. What kind of feminism is this? How can it be fine to abuse certain kinds of women - young, poor, uneducated - while others are placed on pedestals and admired for their steeliness? What kind of feminist is Hillary, who sanctions Bill's behaviour because it feeds her own ambition?"

so yeah, she stayed with him partly for her political ambition
and, apparently, many feminists defended clinton during the lewinsky scandal.

I read both sources and didn't find anywhere that many feminists were appalled that hillary didn't divorce her husband.
i didn't find this:
"Many feminists who thought she was on their camp, were disappointed and angry at her when she did not employ their weapon of choice after Bill Clinton's philandering was exposed - divorce."

are you missing a source or you made the statement up? 'cause i think you made it up.

sirleaf johnson, first female president in Africa is a feminist by the way.


[quote author=I-man link=topic=58825.msg1200238#msg1200238 date=1181774401]Where? When?

That's besides the point.That all females have values has never been in contest.That a female is less desirable as marriage partner if she can't cook/won't cook is in contest.
We know for a fact that women place "less value" on an unemployed man vis a vis an employed man.They place greater value on a wealthy man compared to a less wealthy man.Having such a thread will be entirely in order just as this thread is.[/quote]richyblack posted the "statement"
you guys sound so much alike, sorry if i mix you up sometimes.


okay then, case closed.
this is all about opinion and personal choices. there are some women who will think that less wealthy men also have values.

the topic title is what i have problems with.

Why would a woman who is prepared to put up with her husband's affair be more of a woman than one who accedes to her hubby's demands that she cook or learn how to cook?

you said yourself that you're not sure if she did it for a political purpose.

anyways, nobody is saying females shouldn't know how to cook. the point is, whether they know how to or aren't interested in it, all females have values.

maybe there should be a thread that reads "what's the value of an unemployed man"

'cause i would really love to hear your opinions on that.

kulaShaker:
Wesleyana
just want to say you right about feminism

it is interesting to see how even the young generation are taking on thesame roles as their fathers in relations to women and our roles. Orr is it just a display of male bravado Interesting discussion.

thanks!!

[quote author=I-man link=topic=58825.msg1200149#msg1200149 date=1181771957]So the fact that her hubby was a World renowned philanderer does not detract from her supposed feminism? If it doesn't ,having a hubby that demands that you cook or learn how to cook shouldn't so detract .[/quote]bill clinton is not a "World renowned philanderer"
he lied under oath in office about his affair and the news got big. I personally thought the whole thing was overrated. just to get him out of office.


well, if he apologized or they compromised on something. I don't live in their house. she should decide for herself what she wants. as long as she's not complaining.

[quote author=I-man link=topic=58825.msg1200122#msg1200122 date=1181771351]PS:I bet you Hillary cooks for Slick Willy [/quote]i bet you they have a cook who takes care of that.

She is the antithesis of what a feminist is supposed to represent.Publicy humiliated repeatedly by her husband's philandering behaviour,she is hardly the poster child for feminism.

this means that you do not know what a feminist represent.

proverbial:
Thank God for your statement being an opinion(you said you don't think), otherwise it would be fallacious.
Perhaps gender equity doesn't dominate her mind as it does yours? Perhaps she sees it as just another 'senator' running for office, she just happens to be a woman, and feminists feel the need to capitalize on this huuge, eye-popping, never before seen, shocker. (yeah right)

no she didn't "just happen to be a woman."
if this was the case, women wouldn't be a minority in govt.

those who get involved know about the discrimination and difficulty of being a female in those positions. they do it because they know that they can and they aren't scared.
to me, they are feminists.

So the vast majority of women not pursuing political careers do not believe in political equality of males and females?

many female professionals are also feminists. many female housewives, mothers, wives are also feminists.

Many feminists who thought she was on their camp, were disappointed and angry at her when she did not employ their weapon of choice after Bill Clinton's philandering was exposed - divorce.

you posed a good question ann
ask your fellows for the answer.

first off, my name isn't ann. (it's wesleyan +A)

second of all, ask richyblack to post the source of his statement.
you guys don't even know the definition of /or what makes a feminist, talkless of speaking for them.

that statement was made-up by an anti-feminist. imo. who has no clue about feminism except what the media feeds him/her
and i think richyblack made it up unless he provides a source.

you're still a wannabe in my dictionary. always a wannabe
you didn't claim it. it shows through your posts.


if hillary didn't believe in political equality of males and females, i don't think she would pursue a political career. she running on the democratic party ticket so this even makes it better.

my dictionary = my opinion, in case you didn't get that expression.

that's a compliment to be called a smartass.
smartguy then?
lol

The first female president (potentially) of the United States, Hilary Rodham Clinton, is not a feminist. Many feminists who thought she was on their camp, were disappointed and angry at her when she did not employ their weapon of choice after Bill Clinton's philandering was exposed - divorce.

and you refuse to see the fallacy in this statement?
she is not a feminist because she decided not to divorce her husband? lol

since when did divorcing your husband become a criterion for being a feminist.

so, mr smartass, you think she's going to say no if you ask her if she was a feminist?

[quote author=I-man link=topic=58825.msg1200010#msg1200010 date=1181769062]A misogynist wannabe is effectively one who wants to be a person that hates women.If that makes sense to you,you are probably a teeny bopper [/quote]it doesn't make sense to me.

a wannabe is a copycat or imitator/ a fake.

proverbial:
the misogynist part is what you wanted to pass across.

how would you know?
let david speak for himself. i know you guys are in a brotherhood but please.

davidylan:
Learn to reason appropriately too. How can a man who loves women be a misogynist wannabe? Does it make sense? why would i want to hate women?

lol no let wesleyana hear you o, she has already said God himself is a chauvinist!

you love women as subordinates. this isn't the first male/ female argument we've been involved in.

anyways, Hillary is def. a feminist in my dictionary.

@david,
i called you a misogynist wannabe.

learn to read thoroughly sometimes.

davidylan:
i'm still waiting for mine to be removed too.
Looks like you just learnt the meaning of a "misogynist" in high school.

Yes i did!!! in tenth grade to be exact.
your name stays in my post as usual.'cause you're annoying!!!

wesleyan - an anti-feminist that supports women rights, what's new in that?
I don't commend women carrying signs, going around raging for freedom from opression, 50-50, male bashing, etc, but I respect their rights to be treated fairly, I hope this isn't too hard for you to understand.

my advice to you is to take out your dictionary and look up the meaning to the word "feminism"


fem·i·nism (fĕm'ə-nĭz'əm) pronunciation
n.

1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2. The movement organized around this belief.

you get to be a teenager once in your lifetime. i guess some people wish they could go back in time. lol

the word "teeny booper" doesn't even apply to me. at least learn the meaning of a word before using it. old men sha. they get excited at about everything.

i've removed your usernames from my post. I really wouldn't like anything to do with you either.

@proverbial,

If this is what you call male bashing ------>

not all men are the same anyways. the active men on this thread are one kind:
they're the misogynists wannabe. davidylan especially.


and there are other kinds. the sweet ones, like this guy

cooking is just something else,
not something i look for in a woman,
A woman who can't cook has a 99% value to me,

then i have every rights to call you a female basher.

What do you know, I support women rights myself. cheers.

an anti-feminist who supports female rights. ha you're funny.

That staement was borne out of Paul's personal predjudices against women.

lol

what you just stated is one of the major misconception about feminism.
a lot of people assume feminists to be some heavy set women screaming up and down the street and terrorizing the males.


anybody who believes in equality of the sexes is a feminist. at least that's my definition.
just as you don't have to be a politician or president to claim republican or democrat. you don't have to organize rallies etc to claim feminist.

can you point to me anywhere on this thread where i've engaged in "male bashing" ?

If you don't mind, state some reasons why you're a proud feminist.

I greatly admire the many feminists i see and hear around me and how they're responsible for some of the changes in society now that I and many females take for granted.
feminist females are more likely to take on leadership positions and succeed at it than anti-feminists females.

what are yours?
Have you been wronged so badly by men that you feel the government, or men, must serve some penalties.

i just have my ideals.
I'm a liberal and support women rights. it helps that I'm a female myself.
i'm not anti-male or anything.

don't flatter yourself. it might be disgusting to you, considering your marital status & age, in due time(if you decide to get married, especially to a cultural Nigerian man) you'll understand what people like Creamish have been whispering.

what do you mean by "cultural nigerian man"? you mean Fresh of the Boat from Nigeria?

yeah i know it's part of nigerian culture. this sit at home and cook for your head of the family husband. but that won't be happening when I get married.



yeah my mom cooks most of the time 'cause my dad works long hours and it won't be fair for him to come home from work and start cooking. plus they're not liberal anyways.
my dad cooks usually when my mom's really busy or when he feels like it. like twice a week.
but even if my mom refuse to cook doesn't mean she has no value. i guess he didn't marry her because of food/ cooking.

funny topic.

wish you good luck in finding candidates.

proverbial:
in that case, I'm starting to understand where your feminism comes from.are all men to be blamed for the existence/lack there of "female writers in the 18th century."

the society wasn't favorable to women then. There are some societies in today's world that still aren't favorable to women. esp. the ultra conservative societies.

I disagree. it is only a stupid question because you can only seem to offer an obstinate response.

it's a stupid question because there's no certain age for becoming a feminist.
people form their opinions and ideals from whatever age they gain the capacity to/ are smart enough to.

some people are feminists because they grew up around feminists and some people become feminists because they feel that's what benefits then, others are feminists for other reasons.

but there definitely isn't a rule that says you have to be (insert age here) to have your opinions about things.

I think you should be more concerned about your studies/getting your nails done/socializing with friends than engaging in nasty discussions that can ensue from feministic approach to some questions.

I have my priorities and know what is right for me.
my nails are done, i just returned some books to the library, i'll call some friends later on in the afternoon.
thanks for acknowledging that this is a disgusting topic.

is this an established rule of thumb, or is that the feminist in you speaking?
you'd probably whine that the men shouldn't be playing games while your mom is in the kitchen fixing them a hot plate (if i'm correct).
heck you might cane them for being so inconsiderate.

It's inconsiderate according to my parents. no work, no food. that's the rule at my house.
nobody is anybody's slave at my place. unless it's your birthday or some special occasion then others can do stuff for you. lol

there are no "canes" in my house.

he does? so does mine, i'm sure he's a better cook than you are as well. seems we have something in common. maybe it's not such a bad idea if feminists date/end up married to anti-feminists? interesting.

yeah. he does. even my dad knows how to cook.
But i'm the best cook in my house (not bragging). lol

definitely a bad idea for a feminist to marry an anti-feminist. unless one or the other changes his/her position.

men and women don't pray together in some churches either.

it depends on what's mainstream and what mode the religion is at the time.

proverbial:
not that it merits a noticeable award.your post hinted that you're typifying certain men as being women cargos.shocker, .I'm glad, I'll read up on it pronto.doesn't quite answer my question does it? don't fault me for trying to understand where your bitterness and outcry about male-superiority stems from.

what was your question again? if i'm too young to be a feminist?
i though i answered that. It was a stupid question. that was my answer.

I thought you grew up with men who played video games while your mother cooked in the kitchen & prepared them meals to eat

if this was the case, then the likelihood of me being a feminist will be lessened. except if i was opinionated like one of those few, rare female writers of the 18th century . but i think i definitely am opinionated.

no males in my house is allowed to play video games while the women are cooking. they are either washing the dishes or sweeping. lol
my family isn't liberal like me but weren't that conservative either.

my bro cooks good though. not better than me 'cause i'm older and more experienced.

Creamish:
A woman who can't cook stands a great chance at loosing her husband. . and i wont blame him

what would he marry her for in the first place.

20.If we're dumb,some people will still find it cute

ewwww. this is a disadvantage

anabell:
@proverbial, who said 50-50 is an after life thing please speak 4 yourself.

lmao. i keep telling him that not all men are the same/ think alike.
just as not all women are the same.

proverbial:
lol, mysogynist wannabe, how pathetic.


must be another feminist. aren't you a bit too young for that?
keep dreaming of 50-50. it'll happen in the afterlife.
in the mean time, if you are upset about being mistreated by men, speak your mind, in fact I created a thread just for 'your likes'

haha. I'm definitely a feminist and damn proud to be one. lol
I'm not upset about being mistreated by men. I grew up surrounded by respectful males. and i still am surrounded by respectful males (in real life)
I just replied your thread and made a suggestion to you you on it. lol

must be another feminist. aren't you a bit too young for that?

this is just like asking me if i'm too young to prefer orange juice over icecream.