₦airaland Forum

I suffered from a serious case of anxiety disorder for 17 years. It was absolute torture for me to stand in crowds, especially during silent times where I have to concentrate on someone addressing the crowd. I will always want to shift my legs, read something, eat something, whatever, I just couldn't sit still and standing was worse because my legs will be weak and shaky and my hands sweaty. Flying was a nightmare for me and heights like stadiums were also a challenge.  

I first experienced the power of God when one guy confronted me with the gospel and I felt conviction. I wasn't feeling well after that (the feeling of conviction where you cannot even drink a beer as usual) and I knew that he was telling the truth but I was young and I wanted to enjoy life and I was also scared to go to church because of my fear of crowds that comes with the anxiety.

Seven years later, I was touched again by the Holy Spirit during a Bible study where we were watching a video of a certain pastor. I know it was the Holy Spirit because it was the same as the first encounter and I will experience His touch again later. I was also feeling similar to what I was feeling 7 years earlier. Almost like sadness. I went to my friends who were at a certain bar. By this time I had already stopped drinking. As I was sitting there with my friends I listened to their stories and they sounded so sinful to me. I didn't even contribute to the conversations.

At that time, the anxiety became worse that I started having hard times sleeping. Sometimes I would sleep and I would wake up and when I look at the watch I have slept for less than 30 minutes. I wake up as if something external has awaken me. It would take a while before I sleep again. Then at work I will be tired . When I am with my friends I will be quiet and disorientated because of my poor quality and quantity of sleep. I also started getting panic attacks at night. When the time to sleep comes I would feel either a calming spirit or an eerie spirit. looking back I could only imagine that it was the Holy Spirit fighting another spirit. I think I have received the Holy Spirit but I wasn't praying, reading the word or attending church.

The anxiety and panic attacks forced me to see a doctor and the doctor said I had anxiety disorder. When this thing hit me 17 years earlier I thought maybe I am the only one who has ever had it. The doctor started to guess about the possible cause of my anxiety but I know exactly when and how the anxiety entered me. When I was a kid I enjoyed meditating using a certain technique that I discovered at the age of 6 or so. This is what opened the door for the anxiety demon to enter me on a certain day in 1992 at the age of 11. From that day, I somehow knew my life will never be the same again!

The doctor referred me to a psychologist who gave certain meditation techniques and medication to control the anxiety. I think that controlled the anxiety during the day but then I will get anxiety attacks in my sleep! The medication also made me too drowsy during the day that I could not concentrate at work. The eerie feeling when sleeping time came continued. The anxiety was also heightened by certain factors at work and in my personal life.

I had gone to the psychologist for 5 or 7 sessions which was the maximum per year and he told me I can come back next year for more sessions. I started reading some booklets and my Bible before going to sleep. One day as I was reading this booklet with a prayer of salvation, I told myself I will read the prayer tomorrow but the Holy Spirit was too strong that day and he came upon me like a wave of electricity throughout my whole body and more waves entered my body from head to toe. My heart started beating fast and I was breathing fast. I slept like a baby that day and I woke up so fresh.

During the day, I was thinking about what happened. It was something I couldn't understand. When I went to sleep again, it happened again and I woke up so fresh the next day again. I attended one crowded meeting at work within a few days and I was a different person. No anxiety! I knew that again, my life will never be the same again, that I was healed that I was filled with the Holy Spirit and a born again child of God!


Luk 13:11  And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
Luk 13:12  And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.


God healed me one year earlier!

But the anxiety was not completely gone. I started attending church and still struggled with anxiety a bit sometimes (but take note that uneasiness in a crowd is normal to a certain extend) over time though, as I started attending church, I could feel as if things were coming out of me (demons being expelled). I am now very free indeed. A cannot suffer from anxiety anymore. I fired off an e-mail testifying about what God has done to my psychologist who was expecting me back the next year but he didn't reply.

I don't know if that qualifies as a miracle or not but I am looking forward to my next flight, my next interview, my next public address and so on, because Jesus Christ has set me free. I am now free even to marry because I was so worried about how I could manage to sit in front of the church for the whole service when I even struggled to walk to the stage for a few seconds to collect my achievement certificates in school.

If there's anyone who is afraid of crowds or any other fears, especially if you know exactly when it started and how it started, now you know that it is not from God but from the devil:

2Ti 1:7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
 

After reading this, I know that you know the truth and the truth will set you free. Jesus Christ has set you free the same as He did for me. It is now up to you to walk in this liberty wherewith Christ has set you free.

Glory be to God!

Evil Brain:
Back in medical school, I used to find it strange how much many of the professors (especially the surgeons) hated pastors. Some of them would abandon whatever topic they were meant to teach and spend hours cursing and abusing men of god. When i started seeing patients, I found out why.

My first patient was a 50 something year old woman with brèäst cancer. She told me that she knew early that the swelling was something bad and she immediately ran to church for prayers. The pastor there asked her to move into the church compound and kept her there for 8 months while the cancer spread throughout her body and became incurable.

By the time her family members ran out of money for "miracle offering" it had spread to her spine paralyzing her and there was a horrible foul-smelling sore on her chest. The same pastor then came back to kick her out of the church asking her to "go to LUTH". She died a few weeks later.

It turns out that the reason why cancer survivial rates are so abysmal in Nigeria is because of pastors and imams (plus YemKem tradomedical fraudsters) that convince patients to delay proper treatment while milking them out of their money.

And in all my years as a doctor, I have never seen a single patient with a terminal disease get healed by a pastor. Not one. And I've been looking.

But the question here is: who has ever experienced a miracle?. I don't think that is a hard question to ask a medical doctor.

Pastor Kun:
Dis joagbaje is a real dunce why are you so desperate to defend your fellow fraudsters? Are you now implying that becos the term false pastor was not expressly stated in the bible that there are no false pastors today?

Maybe it's more biblical to call them thieves and robbers?

Joh 10:8  All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:10  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Joh 10:11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.


Those who refuse to warn the sheep about those thieves and robbers are: hirelings

Joagbaje:
I'm aware. But the people you're attacking are pastors, not prophets. But you label prophets to fulfil your hate.

A prophet is someone who speaks on behalf of someone else. Those pastors speak of behalf of God. They say:

God wants you to
God wants to bless you.
If you do this, God will do that.

They receive revelations from God.
Therefore the scriptures that apply to prophets apply to them.

eyinoluwa:
Let me attempt to answer this question.

Whenever God is set to do anything on earth, He calls one man and not a group/company.   

When God wanted to repopulate the earth after the flood, He called Noah
When God wanted to deliver Isreal, He called Moses
When God wanted to save the Whole World, He begot Jesus
In the home, their is one head(husband)
Even the Godhead demostrates this as well (God heads the Godhead.  He is the final judge of all things)

Their has to always be someone that bears the final accountability and responsibility for a group/company. It is now left to the person called/appointed with the help of God through the Holyspirit to choose whomever he/she can trust with the vision. So in my humble opinion I think their has to be a visionary or head that bears the final responsibility for a church.

It was Noah and his sons.
Moses' is a forerunner of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The relationship between husband and wife represents that of Christ and the Church.
If you think that the Church should have a head, I think you should do better to expound that position from the New Testament. We see that in Ephesus for exampl, there did not appear to be a "Senior Pastor":

Act 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


I'm not saying I am right but can you provide scriptures that support a head of the Church other than the Lord?
I'm also not saying it is wrong for a church to have a single person overseeing it but just supporting the view that this is were the problem of succession comes in.

In the beginning it is possible that a single person will run the church but later elders need to be appointed (even Moses did the same). Some of those elders must also preach:

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

This will ensure that the church receives balanced instruction in the word of righteousness. Some preachers emphasise prosperity too much, others emphasise holiness and so on. Having many preachers who are independent and do not depend on pleasing the overseer to continue in their service will ensure a balance.

The elders should be able to appoint other elders and discipline a fellow elder who sins. If the initial group of elders was selected from men who are full of the Holy Spirit and faith, this will work.

Joagbaje:
The bible is not against any sport. Biblical writers like paul often use sporting activities for their illustration. He must have been a sport lover. He used track race, he used boxing ,he used body building etc for illustration.

Maybe he was a sport lover before his conversion, maybe he wasn't. But what I know is that after his conversion he said:


Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


"The Bible is not against sports"
"The Bible doesn't say anything against movies"
"The Bible doesn't say you cannot kiss a girl"

Those are childish things to say, for those who are feeding on milk,

Calradised:
but the question i have is:
if tb joshua had blatantly been proved wrong in a prediction/ prophecy, that debate would have ended long ago
and yet the debate still goes wrong,  because[b] each prophecy given, somehow comes to pass[/b]

"Somehow" is not good enough to be a prophet!

He [b]watched the whole match between Nigeria and Guinea in his dream [/b]and only saw one goal, there were four goals.

1Jn 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.


That is what the Bible says about sports if we can agree that sports are part of the things that are in the world

same with movies etc, But let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind (Romans 14)

He watched the whole match between Guinea and Nigeria in his dream but he only saw one goal and there were four.

I have had more accurate fullfilment of dreams!

Joagbaje:
Don't you watch Nigerian match? If you do , you are hyp. . .


So what do you do about souls? Have you been winning any?

Am I God? Did I ever claim to speak for God?
I didn't say Christians should not watch soccer or not. That is a personal decision (Romans 14). But we should not bring it into the Church or bring the Church into it.

They are of the world, therefore they speak of the world.

Is God concerned about sports or perishing souls?

It depends on which God you are serving, read Daniel Chapter 1. God bless you.

The famine that was prophesied, we see later also the saints helping the churches that were afflicted as a result of the famine. Amen.

As for this TB Joshua, his prophesies bring strife and contention and I think we should leave these guys alone in their ignorance.


Jas 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

@Poster you are acting like a thief caught doing something wrong and then he brings up excuses:

Is it because I'm black? It is because I look poor? Is it because I'm uneducated?

No. The criminal was caught committing a crime that's all.

Same with TB Joshua. There are several threads here already where we post scriptures and reasoning that point to the guy being a false prophet and many of the things you posted are not one of them.

Why don't you go over those threads and refute the scriptures and reasonings posted there instead of opening a new thread with new arguments that noone postulated? TBJ supporters specialise in opening new threads instead of answering existing threads. They also use the trick of creating new user ids just to defend their idol.

It's a shame. Answer the existing threads that ask how TB Joshua didn't see four goals if he watched the whole match in his dream.

I want Joagbaje to mention at least one false prophet and describe his ministry (even if not by name). He is the one who quickly comes to the defence of "men of God" while Apostle Paul spent three years warning the Church of Ephesus about false prophets.

Or Joagbaje must tell us if the prophesies of apostles Peter and Paul did not come to pass.

I watched the full match in my dream last night

Most people, including myself, missed that one. he watched the full match. His dreams are just as good as mine then if he watched the full match and only saw one goal whereas there was four!

They are looking for signs. Something new excite them and tickle their ears:


Act 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)


The Bible is not enough. they must see or hear something new.

2Pe 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Act 20:29  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


From the scriptures above we know that there are false prophets and they are among us. That means they are in the Church. Many "pastors" seem to ignore the FACT that there are false prophets in the Church and they don't warn their members like Paul did:


Act 20:31  Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.


Why are pastors failing to warn the Church about false prophets? There's no need to mention the names of those false prophets but why is it that many Christians cannot recognise a false prophet?


Joh 10:12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.


We can only conclude that many pastors are hirelings: they are in it for the money, recognition and reputation. They don't want to spoil their reputation among the club of "men of God". This is why they would drop names like Benny Hinn while preaching although the man, through his false prophecies and false teachings, has proven himself to be a false prophet.

What are the characteristics of false prophets?

They turn the Church into a business:

2Pe 2:3  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


They shout at demons (the only time we talk to demons is supposed to be when casting them out) and the devil:

2Pe 2:10  But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11  Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.


they fall into intimate sin (divorce is common among them):

2Pe 2:14  Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:


they prophesy for money:

2Pe 2:15  Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;


they lead believers to lust for the things of the world (prosperity gospel) often by exaggerating how they are blessed:

2Pe 2:18  For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.


They speak (or prophesy) of the things of the world:

1Jn 4:5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.


They teach things they are not supposed to teach, the law, for the sake of money:

Titus 1:10  For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Titus 1:11  Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.


they set their minds on earthly things:

Php 3:18  (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19  Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)


They have new "greater" revelations (they believe Paul did not have full revelation):

Gal 1:9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10  For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Gal 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12  For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


The question then brethren, according to your understanding of the Bible, where are the false prophets in the Church today and who are they? If you feel that you don't want to mention names, at least describe their ministry and why you say they are false. If you don't know any false prophet, I don't think it;s because you haven't met one but perhaps you failed to recognise him as a false prophet.

Where are the false prophets?

If a 17year old girl wearing a hunters outfit approached you and claimed to have been sent from God would you believe her?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


What is she saying? It's her message that will confirm that she was sent by God. The word will be spoken with boldness and conviction in the fullness of the Spirit and the Lord will also confirm the word with signs and wonders following. The signs and wonders follow the word. With false prophets the signs and wonders are the focus and often the followers don't care what his message is. After all, they seek after signs and not the living waters.

Joagbaje:
So did tb say you should go after other Gods?

So was there a mistake? . He said be watched the match and they were looking for a goal. And the first group to score a goal takes the day. And be said be saw the end  that the match didnt favour nigeria.

Haha, Joagbaje if it was giving/money you will quickly see the spiritual nature of the Word of God. If somone is prophesying about soccer, I will go and watch soccer. The devil wants Christians to continue/start watching soccer which is an idol in many peoples hearts. How can we free the people from their idols if we join them in worshipping them.

Not that Christians should not watch soccer, that is an individual decision (Romans 14) but why bring it into the Church?

Do you see any preaching/prayer before soccer games? No. Why then would the Almighty God bring soccer into the Church?

Soccer is a god of this world. True prophets preach repentance and holiness. Like John the Baptist, they rebuke sin. They can rebuke even the VIP. False prophets dine with the VIP because they are of the world therefore the world loves them. True prophets lead the Church into the fullness of Christ.

TB Joshua is a false prophet and I will never comment on him again. Let those who have ears hear and let those who hate instruction continue in their ignorance.

thehomer:
Is it new information that this man is a prophet? After all, can't prophets make mistakes? Or maybe the Guinean God was more powerful than TB's God.

Is he a prophet or a dreamer of dreams?

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2  And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3  Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.


True prophets sent by God cannot make mistakes:

Joh 3:34  For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

We are not denying his "gifts". But what we know is that he is a false prophet mightily used by God to test and see who are those who really love Him.


Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.


From a Christian point of view, He is a false prophet and as Christians it is our duty to point that out:

Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Another point you make is that the tribulation will come upon all flesh. Did you consider:


Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Again, I will not make any conclusions but exhort you to consider the scriptures instead of taking a hard line position that you might stick to not because it is right but because you have invested so much emotion into it that you wouldn't want to consider that you are wrong. That means you might find yourself walking in rebellion.

Sweetnecta:
can;t light be the absence of darkness, just as well?

some see the cup half empty while others see it as half full.

yet the wise do see the cup and whatever it contains useful.

Yes fools will always see what they want to see. Those who are full of contention will always argue the obvious.
During the day my source of light is the sun. During the night my source of light is the light bulbs in my house. What is your source of darkness? Satan I guess?

If God was speaking to this man, he will speak plainly, not in riddles.

We have a hard enough time understanding the Bible, God doesn't need to send us prophets speaking in riddles to confuse us even more. God is not the author of confusion.

Why do you want us so much to believe this man? The Bible is enough:


2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


And God has also sent apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers into every corner of the world. We don't need to change our hearts towards this man, we need to turn our hearts to OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


TB Joshua's wisemen are they apostles, prophets, evangelists or pastors? Why not call them what they are instead of wisemen? CONFUSION!

Patience4C:
All I can say is that, for those of us who have said all sorts of negative things about TB Joshua at this time should start asking God for forgiveness because you were indirectly speaking to God who has sent him. You may not know but all evidence proof.

Nay, God did not send him. No one needs to repent. You need to start reading the Bible and everyone will be fine. That's all.


Joh 3:34  For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

1Jn 4:5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Joagbaje:
He said what he saw was that they were fighting for one goal. And it ended not in favour of  Nigeria . He said it will be too bad for Nigeria at this time to lose like that . He said he can't change it alone that others have to join him in prayer to effect a change.

Jer 23:28  The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.


So I guess the prophecy was correct, wait, was it a prophecy or a prediction?


Jer 23:26  How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

I would not be so quick to call anyone's belief on rapture "lies". First of all there is a rapture (the catching away of the saints). What we disagree on is the timing of the rapture. I guess you believe that the rapture will come at the very end:


1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


I guess you believe that the dead in Christ will rise first and as they meet the living saints in the clouds, those who did not die in Christ will rise immediately after the dead in Christ. I guess for you that means that it is technically only one resurrection but someone can still argue that it is two resurrections. First of the dead in Christ and secondly of those who did not die in Christ.

In support of a pre-tribulation rapture [/b]is the fact that Matthew 24 will contain some contradictions if we suppose the Lord will come for the Church only after the tribulation. Those seeming contradictions can be done away with if we accept that there will be a pre-trib rapture.

The Lord says He will come as a thief in the night just like in the parable of the 10 virgins. However, we see in Matthew 24:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And [b]then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven [/b]with power and great glory.


Here we see that they will see a sign in heaven but Matthew 24 also says that the coming of the Lord will be like in the days of Noah. They were eating and drinking. There was no sign until the flood came and took them away.

The Lord also cannot come as a thief if the man of sin has been revealed:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, [b]except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


The "falling away" can also be translated as a departure. Before calling the pre-trib rapture lies, consider that the "falling away" could be the rapture, after which the anti-Christ is revealed and the tribulation starts.


2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


The anti-Christ will come and deceive those who refused the truth. This is during the tribulation:

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Matthew 24:4-31 might just as well be irrelevant for the raptured Church:

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.


If there's anyone who will believe that Jesus is somewhere in Jerusalem or Nigeria, it is obvious this person has not received the Holy Spirit, has not partaken in the rapture. Spirit-filled Christians will not run after false Christs. The anti-Christ will only come to the fore after the Church is raptured:


2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


The Holy Spirit, whose habitation is the Church, is the one that restrains the anti-Christ to be revealed.

Remember that as it was in the days of Noah, so also shall the coming of the Son of man. In the days of Noah, the flood could not come until Noah's Ark was ready, until Noah and his family was in the Ark. As soon as Noah was taken away, after 7 days, the flood came. Similarly, the glorious Church will be taken to heaven for 7 years to celebrate the marriage supper:


Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


The Lord is ready to come and destroy the wicked one but the Church is already in heaven:

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


The Lord is ready to come and destroy the wicked one who is causing havoc in the tribulation, yet the Church is already in heaven!


Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all,


I'm not saying I'm right but I want you not to be so presumptuous that you are right but rather study the scriptures and you will see that the pre-tribulation rapture might possibly be true.

tpia@:
@ topic

in addition,

was darkness also created, and when?

If you don't understand that there's no such thing as darkness, that darkness is the absence of light, you should not be taking part in a discussion at this level, I advise.