₦airaland Forum

Sweetnecta:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ wetu; what are you saying?

you mean you don't like a little dialogue? even when somebody is openly lying, you should ite your tongue and let everyone else swallow the lie?

that a bad stand to take. there is nothing noble allowing lies to become the order of the day, the norm of the society.

There's nothing wrong with a little dialogue but as with many other things, we should make sure it doesn't become an obsessive compulsive disorder

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


When you come here talking about "sons of perdition" are you talking for God or for your MOG? Do you actually understand who the Bible says are the sons of perdition?


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


I hope your MOG don't compare themselves to Melchizedek the HIGH PRIEST but this is simply your own opinion. Now let me show you who is Melchizedek:

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

You are obsessed with Islam, this thread is for those who believe the gospel. There are plenty of threads for those who don't believe to debate.

I don't see why you have to turn every thread into an Islam-Christianity debate. It's not normal.

the next day i woke up, sweating.

Probably a demonic attack. Try reading the Bible and praying to God the father in the name of Jesus before you sleep.

2Praise:
I strongly believe there shall be more pastors in hell than heaven.Why why why do we go about condemning people. We don't even reflect nature of christ because we have become super,acting wiser than God himself.
We lack compassion and hammer the gospel like terrorists.It hurts me a lot to see and hear people that had zeal and fire for God get condemned just because they fell by the wayside.

Why dont we ever preach restoration? Who made us 'gods'.Who doesnt sin?

This is what the bible says'

Matthew 12:20 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victor

He will not let a crushed stem be quite broken, and he will not let a feebly burning light be put out: he will go on sending out the true word to the peoples.

A christian that falls is already hurting but instead of encouraging the brother/sis to come back to God we keep reminding them of their mistakes.Jesus would never do that but we do!

We pay for our sins yes but please can we embrace people more than condemn them?

I think we can love a pastor, encourage him and so on without allowing him to preach or lead a congregation.

I think we can embrace a pastor without allowing him to preach or lead a congregation.

I think we can demote a pastor without condemning him.

Why do we want to do the above?
Because we want to follow the full counsel of God. As much as God wants us to love one another, he has put the requirements for church leadership and those who are not qualified should not be appointed to pastor a church. Equally those who are disqualified should be removed from pastoring a church.

There are false prophets out there and the only way we can know them is by their fruits. Not that every pastor who falls into adultery is a false prophet but we should know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

We are an army in a battle and the reward is eternal life. A pastor who falls into sin must take one for the team. He must make way for another man of God who is blameless. It's not our requirement that a bishop must be blameless, it's God's requirement.

I believe that once a minister of the gospel falls into such grave sin, he has disqualified himself:


1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Pro 6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
Pro 6:33 A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


A Pastor who falls into adultery loses his reputation and his reproach shall not be wiped away. God can forgive him, the congregation can forgive him but his reputation will remain the pastor who committed adultery.

Such a pastor must not lead a church anymore. He might be able to do other duties such as counselling, maybe even preach once in a while but he should not lead a church.

Forgiveness restores us to fellowship with God and others, but doesn't necessarily wipe away the consequences of the sin.

By the way, I cannot stop this self-delusion. I love it! I love the fact that my life changed dramatically one night when I was healed from an infirmity of 17 years. If I stop this self-delusion, it means that I will have to go back to the life of those tormented 17 years.

It was me, the Bible and the Holy Spirit. It was a miracle. I want to believe it was miracle. I won't stop believing it was a miracle. Praise Jesus!

claremont:

2. The onus rests on those who believe in these false claims to prove that they are not false by performing them so the whole world can see.

You cannot put an ONUS on me to prove the miracle that God did in my life to satisfy your curiosity. You not believing it will not make my miracle any less of a miracle. Even if I wanted to, I cannot perform for the whole world to see, I didn't perform the miracle in the first place, neither did I ask for it or expect it. It was God Himself who did it.

I will not go around preaching my miracle but simply preaching JESUS and God CAN do a miracle according to His will.

There are ways to start a business with little or no capital. One of those ways is to partner up with an existing business in a foreign country looking to get into your country. They will be able to put up a little capital and also provide expertise. Your job will be to run the business, look for deals and so on.

try a company like this one: http://www.2929sms.com

Christians this, Israel that, Christians this, Israel that,

Just accept that God is the God of Abraham, Isac and Jacob (Israel) instead of ranting against Christians:

Num 23:23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!

moha00nine:
6 α Muslim holds Christianity with high regards.

Muslims know how to lie! Why are you posting such BLANKET statements about Christians if you hold Christianity in high regard? Get off your high horse.

How is anyone supposed to believe anything you say if you cannot defend your lies in this thread:

1. Timothy was advised to take wine
2. Wetu said the Bible says Christians should not drink alcohol
3. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that Christians should not drink alcohol

You are a liar and a false prophet and every Christian on NL should know that by now.

ogoamaka99:
The greatest deceit is self deception. Another is to claim that you are deceived into doing what you did or what you are doing. To say you are deceived where is your sense of reasoning and judgment? I wish to share with you a real live story. A friend of mine came back from America to get married to a new wife. After the marriage he observed that he was vomiting blood- he had been poisoned. I suggested that he visit TBJ that I believe that he will vomit the poison. When his elder brother heard of the arrangement to visit TBJ he opposed the visit because according to him he said that TBJ is a false prophet. He called a meeting informing the audience that if the wife of his younger brother goes to TBJ and if anything happens to his brother that the wife of his brother is responsible.

Two weeks later the young man died and after the burial the elder brother observed that he started vomiting blood as well. That is to say he got poisoned. Do you know that he rushed to TBJ and Emmanuel TV showed where he was vomiting the poisonous substance? When he came back the wife of his late brother called a meeting. And in the meeting she accused the elder brother of her late husband of been responsible for the death of her husband. That the man refuted the allegation saying that he was deceived about TBJ.

The man was forgiven after he proved with tears that he was deceived. Do you know that the deception of that man caused the death of his younger brother? Now there are many whose destiny has been destroyed by deception of others. There are MOG who GOD has positioned to transform your life which by reason of the saying of the sons of belial and perdition you fail to have encounter with them. If you are deceived by reason of what others are saying where is your sense of judgment and reasoning? Don’t say like that man that you are deceived.

Is this another TB Joshua campaign tactic?

KunleOshob:
^^^
Just as I thought you won't be able to explain it since what you preach and believe are doctrines of men that lack sound biblical basis. I repeat with all sense of responsibility that there is absolutely nothing in the bible that suggests born again christians cannot drink or produce alcohol. Even our lord Jesus christ produce very high quality alcoholic beverage when he turned water into wine. That aside I hope you know you are sinning by claiming the bible says christians shd not consume alcohol cos you are adding to scriptures which is a sin. You need to stop forcing your ill conceived ideas into scriptures and causing unnecessary confusion in christian religious beliefs.

You are an accuser of the brethren, a false prophet and a liar.

It's not true that there's absolutely nothing in the Bible that suggests Christians cannot drink. It's there. I posted it in red in this post but you simply want to ignore it. On the other hand I did not say "the Bible says Christians should not consume alcohol".

My points in this discussion was:
1. Let us not read into scripture what the Bible doesn't say
2. Let us not base doctrine on a couple of verses but on the full counsel of God
3. Let us not overextend ourselves in suggesting Christians should do things or not do things where it is much better to present the full counsel of God and let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind, especially if no one asked us.

In the process I have presented you scriptures that clearly suggest that Christians shouldn't drink. Of course we all know that drinking leads to drunkenness and drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If you could read Romans 14, you would clearly see that what you are doing is wrong, especially when no one asked you but you jumped at the chance.

You are clearly not a Christian or your Christianity is the Simon the sorcerer type of Christianity where your own interests and agenda comes fist:

Act 8:22  Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act 8:23  For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Act 8:24  Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

KunleOshob:
^^^
I dey laugh, before I comment on the ignorant delusion posted above kindly address the deut 14 passage that says we can even drink beer in church as a form of worship.

Sorry, I cannot explain that scriputure to you, you must be born again:

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Zikkyy:
My brother, there is nothing wrong with working in a brewery. It's like asking if Christian can work in a pharmaceutical company knowing the effect of overdose or wrong use of drugs.

Like I said: the question was just about working in the brewery but kunle overextended himself to say Christians can even consume beer. No one even asked that and I had to rebuke him for that. I did not answer the question as it was already answered.

Guys let us learn to read if we want to respond.

As the scripture says, the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. You must be born again.

Those scriptures are addressed to the priests. In the New Testament, every Christian is a priest. The priests were not supposed to drink when they enter the tabernacle, which is a forerunner to the temple. In the New Testament, your body is the temple of God.

About Timothy, you are lying. He was not advised to take wine. He was advised to "use a little wine" with his water:

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.


Today, any sensible Christian will take cough medicine even though it contains a little alcohol because of that scripture. A carnal Christian will indulge in wine because of the same scripture.

I do not expect you to agree with me but I just want to correct your error. Noone even asked you if Christians can drink or not. The question was just about working in a brewery. If you were a Christian at one point and have fallen from grace, please do not lead others into the same fate.


Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Isa 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

KunleOshob:
^^^
I am absolutely serious, there is not one single verse in the whole bible quoted in proper context that forbids christians from consuming alcohol. If any thing there are several scriptures endorsing it. Infact the bible makes it clear that our lord Jesus christ consumed alcohol on a regular basis. (Luke 7 :33-34)

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!


Now let us not read anything into Luke 7:34 besides what the Bible says. They said he was a winebibber and a glutton. Does it mean Jesus was a winebibber and a glutton? MAYBE

We cannot advise Christians to drink based on one verse. We have to teach the full counsel of God.


Pro 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Lev 10:8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Lev 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
Lev 10:11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

KunleOshob:
Why not Absolutely nothing wrong in a true christian working in a brewery[b] or even consuming beer[/b].

Are you serious?

I have other spiritual gifts but I don't speak in tongues, those other spiritual gifts are they not from the Spirit of Christ. God is not the author of confusion, If it was so, He would just say: "If any man does not speak in tongues, he does not have the Spirit of Christ"

"the evidence of speaking in tongues" is not a biblical thing it was invented by people and only they know what they want.

We don't need evidence that we have the Spirit of Christ:

Eph 3:14  For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15  Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16  That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17  That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Heb 11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


The bibles is also very clear on spiritual gifts. If you study it carefully it will help you from making such blanket statements. See 1 Corinthians 12-14

How did the Muslims conclude that Jesus was taken to heaven? The Jews who don't believe in Jesus say that Jesus is not the Christ but Jesus died on the cross and His disciples stole the body.

Now here I see a Muslim saying Jesus is indeed the Christ, although He did not die but Jesus was taken to heaven.

I see two lies, half truths, if you put two and two together, you will know that Jesus is indeed the Christ, He died on the cross and rose again and was taken up into heaven.

The Jews are still waiting for the Christ and the Muslims are expecting Jesus Christ to return and destroy them, Hallelujah!

The marvellous works of God!

Why would Isaac ask his son to bring him venison before he would bless him?  It is based on spiritual principles.

You seem not to fully understand the New Testament:


Heb 8:6  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


In this new testament with better promises, the blessings are not bought:

Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


If you are alluding that blessings need to be bought, you are wrong. Giving attracts blessings of course. But Christians still need to be careful when, how and how much they give. According to the scriptures, giving money to rich people doesn't bring a blessing. I would assume that this applies to rich pastors as well. There are no examples of giving to rich pastors in the Bible because there are no rich pastors in the Bible.

I'm not saying pastors should not be rich but what I'm saying is that if you really claim to be teaching people biblical principles of prosperity, you should also be teaching them NOT to give to the rich, including pastors.

Joagbaje:
Was Elijah oppressing the poor when he asked the widow for her last meal,despite the fact that he had been eating babercued meat which this woman wasn't able to afford. He made her do the scriptural principle.

Giving to a minister doesn't have to be because of lack. It's because of the anointing upon him . That's what cause men to prosper. We can see the principle in the old testament.

Numbers 18:8
And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them. by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever

Why would Isaac ask his son to bring him venison before he would bless him?  It is based on spiritual principles.

Please don't pull out scriptures without thinking about what you are responding to. You may know what you are saying but you also need to know what you are responding to. The scripture I posted has three distinct parts:
a)He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches
b)he that giveth to the rich
c)shall surely come to want.

My point being that he that oppresses the poor will come to poverty and he that gives to the rich will also come to poverty. This means that SCRIPTURALLY giving to the rich is like oppressing the poor. Now if Elijah was rich and the widow gave to Elijah, then she will become poor. Please tell us if Elijah was rich.

Giving to the rich pastors should also fall into the category of giving to the rich. Please teach that biblical principle as well: giving to the rich leads to lack.

As for the heave offerings that should go to the sons of Aaron because of the anointing, That is all well, go ahead and become or remain rich on the offerings of the poor IF you are a son of Aaron since they don't have the anointing I suppose.


Heb 7:11  If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Joagbaje:
It depends on the context of such preaching, giving cause grace and ability to abound. That doesn't take away the place of other principles of prosperity . When we do other things as Christians and we don't give, it's a life of covetousness . It works against other things we are doing . It tends to a struggle.

When a man make giving a lifestyle , it cause grace to abound upon other things we do. The intellect will function better, the minds xan be opened to better and bigger ideas, favour can abound, even those who don't like you will work for you without knowing why. That's the favour of God. He will cause men to give unto our blossom .

So you don't teach people HOW to prosper, you teach them how to give so that they can prosper. And what you teach them is that this giving works when most of the giving is to the local church/pastor. Is that right?

It's not sin, what you need to do is pray about it. When God answers your prayers, those feelings will either go away or you will get closer to the guy and things can happen from there.

However if your crush is driven by lust, you need to repent of it because you could end up doing things (like approaching the guy) which are unbecoming of a woman of God or perhaps compromise your dressing to attract his attention.

Is it wrong to give to your pastor?

It depends who the pastor is and how much he has already.

giving to the rich is like robbing the poor:


Pro 22:16  He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

Going in circles, going in circles,

Joagbaje. can you teach us how to prosper here on NL? Cause you say it's not wrong to teach people how to prosper. Now I have heard a lot of prosperity preachers but none of them tell people how to prosper. They only say if they give, they will prosper. Perhaps CEC is different but the times I was there I also only heard "give and you will prosper". In fact Pastor Ken went further at the Haven conference and said "God cannot do without a gospel financier". So the members of Haven should not expect to die anytime soon because God cannot do without their money. I think this is not true!