₦airaland Forum

Wow. The way some people lie about who they are just to win an argument....

^ This one went tame too soon. I thought this was going to be more fun. Oh well...

iSlayer2:
Oh shut up already

LOL, I thought you had more fight in you, little nigga. Tired of being stupid already?

Afam4eva:
Laureta Onochie is from Ika.

@As much as you tried to use objectivity to drive home your point, i don't think using objectivity like you have done can give you a true picture. The only thing i see you doing is that those you classified as Igbos are those that have typical Igbo idiosyncrasies. Notice my usage of the word "typical". I don't know why people tend to define Igbos by popular characteristics of people from the South-East which could have come due to the unique history that they share. It's just like saying someone doesn't look Igbo because they cannot hustle like the average Igbo man without realizing that even hustling really hard is a popular behavior of Igbo people, it's not the only behavior of Igbo people. There are Igbo people that are lazy. there are Igbo people that cannot do business etc.

I think it's pertient that you tell us why you think Ika for example are from Edo as opposed to Enuani? let me guess: is it because they have an Edo influence on their Igboid language? or they could be Edo with Igbo influence. it depends on how you look at it.

it's imperative that Igbo is not a homogenous group and as such all Igbo people should not be exactly the same or have the same political inclination. There are Igbo people and there are people people. There are Igbo people that according to natural order are Igbos based on their language, culture and tradition but they could decide not to go with the Igbo tag. I remember one Ndoni guy on this forum who swore that ndoki was not Igbo but he agreed that all the "BIA" speaking tribes should come together and give themselves a new name but not "Igbo". That's when i realized the fact that the fear of these people isn't necessarily about working the SE Igbos but the fact that being tagged Igbo will swallow their uniqqueness and dissipate them into nothingness. It's just like telling an Annang person to call himself Ibibio.

You people do not even understand the point of my posts here. The OP is the one dividing the Igbo-speaking world into true Igbos and non-true Igbos. I am not the one doing it. He is also the one using the presence or absence of traditions of Edo origins to divide the Igbo-speaking world into true Igbos and non-true Igbos. I am not the one doing it.

My point (which everyone seems to have missed) is that making such a demarcation is an exercise in futility, as you will still encounter 'Igbo-speaking' people within the so-called 'true' Igbo groups who also claim Bini blood and deny being Igbo.

My point: Don't bother making a division. It will be futile. There are those who claim Igbo roots in Ika; there are those who claim Bini roots in Ika. There are those who claim Igbo roots in Enuani; there are those who claim Bini roots in Enuani. You don't get to arbitrarily draw a line, and say 'This side, pure Igbo; this side, Bini-mixed'.

Is this a difficult argument to follow?


BTW, I was told by Anioma friends that Onochie is Aniocha. I will ask again, but if there's anything that can support what you say, I will accept it.

iSlayer2:
Stop whining,keep shut and then go and seat down. Nobody will tell you when I'm ready for you.

You are the only whiner in this entire thread. You are not only a whiner, you are also a pathetic attention-seeker and probably a loner with nothing better to do than sniffing my ass on NL.

Get off my mentions and get a life.

iSlayer2:
Stop whining and keep shut. You were being mischievous and was called. Suck it up.

I wasn't being mischievous. I was addressing what I perceived to be an incorrect assertion on the OP. You, on the other hand, appear to want to derail (something you accused me of, ironically) and be stupid. I can help you fool yourself if that's what you want. I have done it before to other people on this platform.

Quote me again, and you'll know I can hold my own in an insulting march.

iSlayer2:
Who are you writing an epistle to?.

Yea, I shouldn't have. My mistake. I forgot you can't read anything that goes beyond a few lines. The reason why you didn't read down the original post. The reason why you didn't understand that I was responding to something that was actually in the original post.

I see actual derailers here, bringing in Ibani Ijaws on a post the Ibani Ijaws weren't even mentioned to start with. But my little comments are the ones biting your intestines.

This reply is already too long for your short attention span to handle, so I'd better stop.

Probz:
And the point about some Enuanis having Igala blood is irrelevant, not being funny.

It became relevant the moment you started calling Enuanis pure Igbos. You should have known that for groups on ethnic borderlands, such a notion as 'pureness' makes no sense.

iSlayer2:
This is highly off-point. The topic is not "Who are Enuani personalities who are anti-Igbo"? Simply share what you know of Ika/Ikwerre culture as it pertains to being Igbo or a distinct people.

Listen, do not quote me again if you can't say something smart. You obviously did not read beyond the title. The writer started off by trying to tell us which of the Anioma groups are pure Igbo and which one are Edo hybrids.

He or she claimed Ika and Ukwuani as Edoid-Igboid and Enuani as pure Igbo. My comments only intended to point out that Enuani has a lot of clans who do not lay claim to pure Igbo blood (as he thinks), but are also "Edoid-Igbo", to use his language. I mentioned two prominent Enuani individuals who disclaim Igboness in order to highlight that such denials exist in Enuani as much as they exist in Ika and Ukwuani.

The only derailer here is you, with your lack of comprehension and eagerness to pick a pointless fight. Seek understanding or stop quoting me.

iSlayer2:
What are you driving at?

Read the article if you don't get the context of my reply.

Lauretta Onochie and Sunny Ofili who are very anti-Igbo are from Enuani.

Your so-called Igbo proper Enuani still have a lot of clans that claim Bini, Esan and Igala blood.

*yawn* *eye roll*

The same 21st century that nude beaches are springing up all over Europe?

Sit down and ask yourself this question: What is intrinsically wrong about baring breasts in a non-sexual context?

Number 2 is not particularly true. I know the Facebook names of some of the worst E-tribalists here. They are 'old' married men with children.

What most e-tribalists lack is a life and intelligence.

I don't understand why the Union Jack is on the first picture. Is Bonny still a British colony?

I also just checked to see if you posted this in the science section. You did not. Why? Surely there are more science heads there who can debate this. This place is most probably visited mainly by art people

One quick question here. Why would NASA go through all this pain to lie about the shape of the earth and the movement or lack of movement of planetary bodies? What would be their motive?

Noneroone:
did alimi conquer ilorin with an army? Most of you yorubas maintain that he never waged a formal war which is which is why i used the word 'subdued'. Since that is the case why did they easily gain control over the town if indeed it was peopled by indigenous yorubas?

the statement in bold is your assumption. No group willingly fight their own established indigenous institution of authority in favour of a foreign one. The hausas despite having some muslims among them fought bloody wars with fulanis in resistance to the emirate system. Simply admit that fulanis succeded because ilorin has no natives with a king who resisted the overthrow their traditional kingship system.
the fulani waged a full blown war with a well mobilized army as part of the jihad that swept throughout sudan. It was a war, a bloody religious one at that. The outcome was a caliphate, whose authority is sustained by islamic principles, after much resistance from hausas(habbe and zazzau). This is different from the fact the afonja was killed by fulani and hausas. The supposed native maority people of ilorin didnt resist. And they established a rule and later recognised as an emirate, without a war. Let me ask you, could it have been possible for alimi to kill the alaafin and establish an emirate over oyo?

only language and name( not in all cases) is their only link with yoruba. Majority of them are not yoruba by blood, which is why the likes of sarakis maintain they are fulani. Does that happen in kano? Is kano not an emirate?

I cannot continue to deal with this ignorance anymore. The history i've been spoonfeeding you, and which you clearly have no knowledge about is well recorded in history. Go and read a book and stop arguing blindly about what you don't know.

'The History of the Yorubas' by Samuel Johnson is available online and goes into some detail about Ilorin and how the Fulani came to power there...and the role played consciously and unconsciously by Yoruba Muslims elements in propping up Fulani power in the town. You can go on to read other texts like Revolution and Power Politics in Yorubaland. By the time you are done, you'll be embarrassed by the ignorance you've been spilling here.


And I am not Yoruba, FYI.

Noneroone:
lol at your emotions...btw, Oba is new to yorubaland. At least that is no longer hidden. That is why i mentioned all the rulers by their natives titles.
baales cannot exactly be called kings. Most of them are subordinate to kings. And in the case of ilorin it shows like i said that it wasnt a full fledge yoruba traditional settlement, but was more or less a virgin territory which served as an outpost of the oyo empire

no one argues whether it was under oyo empire or not. This is because that is common knowledge. Oyo was a kingdom, and kingdoms capture territories in their expansionist attempts. Such territories may become part of the kingdom in question but belongs to indigenous inhabitant who may even be of another ethnic stock. In all your explanations, one can easily notice that you made constant reference to oyo, include your explanation about the indigenous owners which cannot be. Most established kindoms had names for their people and their rulers, had culture and tradition which consist of dialects and even chieftaincy pattern, this is why ijebu and their ajuwale differ from egba and their alake and with ooni of ife. Ilorin should be able to have all this .Everything about ilorin cannot be just oyo when infact, it only became part of oyo empire around the middle of 15th century. If oyo had these the fulani wouldnt have established an emirate and also form bulk of the indigenous people, 'cos it'll be difficult to destroy a tradition institution that had existed for ages. How do one believe that a people will be subdued by minority in their own land, obliterating their culture and traditional institutions?

First: Minority armies have always throughout history subdued and controlled much larger populations, especially when they have support from some of the local people. Students of history know this. The Fulani had support of the local Yoruba Muslims as well as Hausa elements who were living in Yorubaland at the time. The Hausa are much more numerous than the Fulani. Yet Fulani (with support of some local Hausas) were able to overthrow the Hausa kingdoms. So your point here is invalid.

Second: Who told you the culture and traditions of the Yoruba were 'obliterated'? That a veil of islamism was put over the city is not the same thing as the local culture being obliterated. Language is a part of culture: Ilorin still speaks Yoruba, and the people still bear Yoruba names. Traditional Yoruba institutions such as the Balogun system have even survived the islamization of the city.

Nowenuse:
I really wonder why yorubas will be laying claim to Ilorin city. That is absolute nonsense!
Ilorin emirate which comprises 5 LGAs can not and never be an ethnic yoruba city. The spoken language there may be yoruba but that does not make the majority of the indigenes yoruba.

Most ilorin indigenes do not identify as ethnic yorubas especially the rulers, royal houses and elites of the city who are the movers and shakers of the city

So,Katsina is no longer historically Hausa because the elite and royal houses and bladiblabla are now Fulani?

Ogbomoso had a Baale at that point in history, too and not an actual royal king. You will now come and tell me this means Ogbomoso was not a full-blown Yoruba town.

Ignorant person.

Noneroone:
smh... full blown yoruba town without a 'full blown' king. Ilorin was yet to flourish as a yoruba settlement before the afonja incident. It had no king (like the awujale, ooni, alaafin and alake) except oyo miltary commanders and oyo-sent baales, who you admitted were non-royals. No known yoruba sub group can lay claims to it. Even the the present population is mostly 'yorubanized fulanis'. Most of whom are native to oyo and who only migrated in droves after it had fallen to fulani.

Yorubas didnt stamp their hegemonic footprint on the territory to show it was their traditional settlement which is why it was easily taken and expanded by fulanis, before colonialists sealed that arrangement.

More ignorant talk. Everybody with a nodding acquaintance with Yoruba people knows that not every town has an Oba. It is not like your part of the country where every chief is a king. Some have Baales who usually is under the jurisdiction of an Oba at a capital city nearby.

In the case of Ilorin, it was (before the rise of Afonja) under the jurisdiction of the Oba at Ikoyi (the Onikoyi), who was the chief Oba of the Ekun Osi sub-branch of the Oyo branch of the Yoruba nation. The Onikoyi was in turn under the Alaafin at the Oyo metropolis.

That thing you wrote up there is pure shiit pulled from your ass. You don't know the first thing about Yoruba history. I have told you the Yoruba subgroup that owns Ilorin - the Oyo (Ekun Osi sub-branch). Read a book. No one was sending baales from Oyo-Ile to rule anywhere. Officials sent from Oyo were not called Baales. They were called Ajeles or in some cases Ilaris. Read a book. Baales are descendants of indigenous people... or of the early settlers/founders of a town.

The Oyo-Yoruba rulers of Ilorin before the coming of the Fulanis:

Laderin
Pasin
Alagbin
Afonja, after who the Fulani established an emirate.

Read a book.

Noneroone:
who told u Ilorin is yorubaland?

Stop advertising your ignorance and go and pick up a book on Yoruba history. Ilorin was a full-blown Yoruba town within the Oyo Kingdom before the advent of Fulani and other Northern elements into the town. Even today, the elements of Northern origin remain in the minority, while the majority of the town is Oyo-Yoruba by ethnicity.

Before the time of Afonja, the town had been ruled for many generations by Afonja's ancestors who were Baales (the title used by Yoruba rulers who were non-royals). Some of them were Baale Laderin and Baale Pasin. Go pick up a book.

This is actually really really sad. NL Igbos cannot mention a single battle they fought with other tribes in their history? Sad!

I do not know when or if anyone said Ibani language is Igbo. Ibani language is Ijo, and I want to believe everyone knows that. What the op is confused about is a second language widely spoken on Bonny Island as well as Opobo which is the same as the kind of Igbo spoken in Ndoki, Abia.

Anything to show that this is authentic? Anything at all?

Nok.

KingSango:
I changed the title so as not to offend but I noticed no one would've given an answer otherwise as not to offend the guilty. I don't like this whole idea of Yorubaland being always stuffed in with Nigeria. Nigeria is an array of cultures and different lands and rulers. People in the U.S don't understand that but Nigerians are being brainwashed with colonialism. The Roman state, that is the preferred political structure of the British, modeled after Rome is inferior to the political structure of the ancestors. All this things happening, corruption and such, wouldn't be happening if Oyo Empire controlled the land. Even Igbo land would be better ran as this is where this poor baby was abandoned and cursed into near death. I know no Yoruba woman could see that child going into the streets without a mother and just keep going. This is Igbos doing this. They have a much different belief than Yorubas. Yorubas should stick to their traditions and respect Baba Sango because Oba Sango makes sure Yorubaland is progressive and there's an effort to stop these types of atrocities from happening in Oyo state. But the people who blow up the market in Oyo I pray they are caught and punished.

I know you are not Nigerian, and as such do not know much about Nigeria's ethnic diversity. So your error in the bolded statements is forgivable. Also I see one mischief maker has already (mis)informed you that this happened in 'Igboland of Akwa Ibom'.

Akwa Ibom, where this happened, is NOT Igboland. Akwa Ibom lies to the east of Igboland. The ethnic groups in Akwa Ibom are Ibibio, Oron, Annang (sometimes collectively named Ibibioid groups - after the largest ethnic group there).

Again, this child was NOT abandoned in Igboland. Akwa Ibom is not in Igboland.

I think I'm with 9jacrip on this issue of 'G' or 'g'. That analogy with Jesus fails to take into consideration the fact that Trinitarian Christians do not rank Jesus lower than God the Father. The Trinitarian teaching is that they are all one God and they are all equal.

But Yoruba theology doesn't teach that Eledumare and Irunmole are all one God; neither does it teach that they are all equal. In this case there is clearly a ranking, with Eledumare being head and shoulders above the Irunmoles. So it makes sense to designate Eledumare as 'God', and the Irunmole as 'gods'.

In any case, I don't think y'all should make much of this - it is not even that important. When y'all insist on using the terms (and the capitalizations) the Christians use, it sort of looks as if y'all are looking up to and trying to emulate their designations.

The first picture looks like a mother-daughter pic. Didn't know the queen was that tall...or is Jennifer the short one?