₦airaland Forum

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so you can see the size of NNS thunder

Msauza: http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-31735/

SANDF indicated that Rooivalk will be made available for FIB if the need arise. The decision was with the UN for approval. I guess there will no longer be the need for their deployment because the rebels have retreated back from position.

M23 is one of 40 rebel groups so they still may go

NaijaPikinGidi: It is a waste of time highlighting those comments by your Mgwebi spokesman. Every military even the least powerful come with certain capabilities. Even cthe Police come with eagle-eye snipers. As such it's a bloody waste of time hanging on to silly propaganda that your military cannot verify even as I write this comment! SANDF went to the DRC with a premeditation to score high military marks. Sadly the realities on ground are too much for them to handle. Hence, the Tanzanian army ... with very good knowledge of the bush and jungle terrain are leading the frontlines every step of the way. This frustration must be responsible for the sniper propaganda by SANDF who remain relegated to the back rows of ignominy in the DRC operations.

i merely posted additional info he said at the same press briefing, our military is not the source of the info that was the first press briefing the SANDF had. And i have posted load of info on SA solders fighting on the front line, and that tanzanian general probably did a few courses in SA by the way

http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfrica/News/SA-forces-play-key-role-in-DRC-20130901

Pretoria - South African soldiers have been at the forefront of attacks on rebels in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo and were instrumental, along with a UN force, in repelling the M23 rebels as they rained rockets on the town of Goma.

The Sunday Times reported that a visit to the front line at Kibumba on Saturday, made it possible to piece together the events of last week. South African National Defence Force commander Colonel Patrick Dube also confirmed that his troops played a leading role in repelling the rebels.

Congolese troops said support from South African troops had been invaluable. “We fought with the South Africans yesterday and today,” said one soldier near the frontline on Thursday.

Local commanders said the number of South African soldiers wounded had risen to five, but SANDF spokesperson Brigadier General Xolani Mabanga said yesterday the official figure remained at three.

After a lull of almost a month, fresh fighting broke out recently when the rebels attacked Congolese army positions outside Goma. The battle erupted in earnest on Wednesday when the rebels launched another bid to take Goma. Throughout Wednesday, Russian Hind attack helicopters, supported by South African Oryx helicopters, flew sorties over the enemy positions.

The air attacks were supported by Tanzanian artillery and South African mortar and reconnaissance teams. South African snipers reportedly killed six rebel commanders. Later in the day, a S[b]outh African C130 Hercules transport aircraft landed at Goma, bringing in more ammunition[/b].

The region is reportedly on a knife-edge, which is threatening to escalate into an all-out war.

NaijaPikinGidi: AndrewZA, it's not enough to blurt out your own opinions here, when exactly did the UN ask for South African equipment? Give us a time and source to sustain your claim. Otherwise why is it taking SA so long to deploy their overglorified Rooivalks? The last time I checked the thread was it not MsauZA who claimed he saw the helicopters flying overhead to your Limpopo for forward deployment in no time to DRC? You guys are just wasting time trying to project power that you do not have! Period!!

the videos have been posted and the sources given. Limpopo is not a stage area it is for predeployment training if you don't like the truth don't wake up in the morning

agaugust: ....while the south african army does the R.aping and M.urder of innocent girls and women/wives of other people in Congo DRC

"The SANDF is supposed to be a "disciplined military force". However, there have been 93 cases of misconduct brought against members of the SANDF serving in the DRC. Of the 93 cases, most shockingly, at least 23 involve R.ape, s.exual exploitation, s.exual abuse and assault of women. These include, for example:

- Alleged s.exual molestation;

- R.ape and murder of a Burundian girl;

- S.exual abuse and exploitation; and

- S.exual abuse and misconduct."


http://allafrica.com/stories/201306130303.html


.

it should be taken in contects

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-06-14-peacekeepers-behaving-badly-why-south-african-ill-discipline-in-drc-is-a-un-problem/


South African National Defence Force (SANDF) peacekeepers in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) have had 93 cases of misconduct brought against them. Defence minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula has lamented the ill-discipline of the South African troops serving in the Congo, but there is more to this than just the criminality of South African troops; it points to fault lines in the UN peacekeeping apparatus in the DRC. By KHADIJA PATEL.

This week, Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula revealed to Parliament that 93 members of the South African National Defence Force serving in the United Nations peacekeeping force, Monusco, in the Democratic Republic of Congo, have had cases of misconduct brought against them. According to the minister, investigations were conducted against each of the 93 and, where applicable, troops met the “harshest possible sanction”.

Of those 93 cases of misconduct, the Democratic Alliance says at least 23 involve rape, sexual exploitation, sexual abuse and the assault of women.

In a statement released to the media, the Department of Defence and Military Veterans indicated that just four cases so far had been finalised and a conviction secured.

“All four have been dismissed from the SANDF,” said the statement.

“Minister Mapisa-Nqakula has expressed her personal intolerance to ill-discipline in the ranks of the military, particularly as it relates to reported incidences of the abuse of women and children,” the statement said. “She has made it clear that conduct unbecoming will be dealt with in the strictest compliance with the law and that there is simply no room for criminality and ill-discipline in a highly professional force like the SANDF.”

The Democratic Alliance’s David Maynier, Shadow Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, slammed the report from Mapisa-Nqakula.

“It is completely unacceptable for the members of the SANDF, who are supposed to be a disciplined military force, to begin to mirror the behaviour of the national defence force and rebel groups in the DRC,” he said in a statement.

Military analyst Helmoed Heitman, however, believes that the statistics must be placed in context.

“Before we get too steamed up, we need to know what period this covers. Over the past decade we have had an average of 1,300 troops in the DRC, rotating on a six-month basis,” he said. “That adds up to 26,000 people, of whom 93 may or may not have committed a serious offence.”

Pikkie Greef, the Secretary General of the South African National Defence Union, also urged the DA to interpret the statistics with a more informed insight into the deployment of the SANDF to Monusco.

He says that in total, only 15 soldiers of the 93 mentioned in the report to Parliament were actually convicted of any misconduct.

Like Heitman, he believes the length of time in which these abuses took place must be taken into account.

“This in effect means that only 0.06% of all SA soldiers deployed were convicted of misconduct,” Greef says. “On average, less than two soldiers per year on deployment.”

He believes these statistics are actually favourable to the SANDF. “This is in fact an excellent military discipline record, by the standards of any military force including those of super powers like the United States,” he says.

Heitman, however, admits that the SANDF is faced with a “discipline problem”.

It is the incidence of sex crimes committed by members of the SANDF in the DRC that is particularly troubling.

The scourge of sexual violence and the use of rape as a ploy in war is well known to be part to conflict in the Congo. It has long been seen as a function and tool of conflict in the DRC: in 2011, a study on rape in the Congo published in the American Journal of Public Health found that 48 women were raped every hour in the country.

It is noteworthy that Minister Mapisa-Nqakula has indicated that no member of the South African contingent within the UNAMID in Sudan was being investigated or charged for misconduct.

As horrific as these abuses perpetrated by South African troops are, they are not the first occurrences of sexual violence in the UN ranks in the DRC in recent years.

Gerald Caplan, writing for Canada’s Globe and Mail last year, noted that there was “a long and squalid history” of women being abused by UN forces in the DRC.

He relates the 2005 sexual exploitation and abuse of Congolese females by a small but significant minority of UN troops that led former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan to describe the situation as “an ugly stain” on the United Nations.

“Even though many victims were unable or unwilling to identify their assailants, 63 soldiers were expelled from the mission and repatriated, while a zero tolerance policy was instituted for all cases of abuse by UN soldiers of local citizens,” Caplan notes.

It was, however, not effective.

By 2008, further allegations of sexual abuse perpetrated by UN troops surfaced.

“Human rights observers found that a child prostitution ring had been formed and some 100 UN troops from India were accused of paying for sex with young Congolese girls,” Caplan says. In this case, the Indian army blamed the UN for unjustly bringing charges against its recruits.

More recently, Professor Victoria Fontan, the Director for Academic Development and Head of Department of Peace and Conflict Studies at the University for Peace, Costa Rica, has written about Monusco peacekeepers who she says have continued the tradition of their predecessors by committing violent and abusive acts against Congolese women – often against underaged prostitutes – and getting away with it too.

“In a way, it is much easier to ‘address’ the sexual abuses committed by ‘savage’ Congolese, than to acknowledge the sexual violence brought in with peacekeeping contingents,” Fontan writes.

The DA’s Maynier says, “The Parliamentary question specifically probed whether the United Nations (UN) had been informed about the outcome of each investigation conducted by the SANDF. However, this part of the question was not replied to by the Minister and suggests the SANDF may not have fully cooperated with the UN in investigating some cases of misconduct in the DRC.”

The Daily Maverick’s own efforts to reach Monsuco were unsuccessful on Thursday, but it is this latter part of Maynier’s statement that is most significant. What must now be established is how not just the SANDF but Monsuco, and by extension the UN, deals with sex crimes committed by its peacekeepers.

Certainly the continuance of these acts significantly tarnishes the reputation of the UN as the new intervention brigade prepares to do battle against rebel groups in the eastern DRC. Many Congolese have already come to resent the UN, who, they say, are meant to bring peace to their land – but instead abuse the local population

Mike..ZA:
That's was last year when the Indian peacekeepers,were trying to stop M23's advance.

you mean when they did nothing? Indian peace keepers care more about drinking tea than going on patrol

Msauza: Have you now suddenly developed little confidence on SA media such that you even quote from it a lot lately. What strikes me the most is that the only way for those media reports to be accepted is when they report negatively about SA. It always turns out to be propaganda when anything positive come from it. Hence, you must decide whether you will stay away from SA media or remain.

Who's fooling who.

He is not fooling me since i always knew he was a ignorant fool

agaugust: only south africans think shiny weapons alone win a war.....

i have told you nobody in the world is interested in wasying money to buy some useless 70km range DENEL G6 artillery. now see real life battlefield reality in Congo DRC, the distance between the two opposing armies is maximum of 17km or even less. reason why Tanzanian D-30 artillery guns are clearing out M23 rebels for the weaker south african army to be safe and protected by their more experienced Tanzanian brothers.

global military experience has learned from war history that an army does not need artillery guns with range more than about 24km....that is what the americans and russians are building and still using today. 70km range of G6 DENEL artillery is a waste, if the enemy is too far away, you lose control and accuracy because you dont knwo what you are hitting anymore and the enemy target may have since moved away from where you think they were, you just waste your shells bombarding a useless potato farm .

UN is going for human capacity of combat experience, battlefield courage, physical toughness, and history of reliability in military operations.

DENEL should start using Tanzania's army to market their weapons from now on !

Tanzania's army trained with China's army for the Congo DRC war....they now command and control south african military.
.

since when did we say that, but have the best weapons sure does help, or do you think wars are won with bravery and foolhardiness alone.

except all those countries that have bought arty that can fire that far, hell russia has the BM30 mrls. The biggest advantage of the G guns is not range but accuracy and accuracy at extreme ranges.

Wrong, the USA has a strong air force so ARTY is less imported even so they did try and get long range guns, they all so need them here are three part vedioe on the issue, go to number three to get the list of different arty out there and there range.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94ehxKHhUBc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ3lyhJbyUA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igxFBObUZ-4


You many a china that lost there last war they fought, and that was in vietnam. Tanzanian are the brigade commander not the south african battalion commander, you see unlike nigerians we don't leave UN missions when the UN puts someone else in charge like in malil


the fact is you a ignorant fool accept t and move along

agaugust: [size=14pt]UN prefers Ukrainian air force helicopter gunships and Tanzanian artillery guns for tactical a.ttack on M23 rebels to clear the way fro easy entrance of less capable South African air force DENEL made gunships and artillery


"In a second day of fighting Thursday between the army and the M23, some 17 kilometers north of Goma, however, the brigade’s artillery unit from Tanzania fired its field artillery at the rebels’ positions, according to international observers and sources within the Congolese army"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/28/us-congo-democratic-strikes-idUSBRE97R0QD20130828

http://www.voanews.com/content/drc-welcomes-action-by-un-intervention-brigade/1736011.html

[/size]

D-30 ARTILLERY GUNS....POWER OF TANZANIA'S TRUSTED ARMY...CLEARING THE WAY FOR DENEL EQUIPPED SOUTH AFRICAN ARTILLERY UNITS

where in the source is the above statements facts from? If they think our stuff is so bad they can just get more hinds and tanzanian arty, but no they asked for our stuff because it is better. But you a fool so what do you know did your mommy change the retards diaper yet.

agaugust: .

[size=16pt]Ghost south african army snipers in Congo DRC.....

.....fire Ghost DENEL sniper rifles....

....k.ill Ghost M23 Rebel commanders....

set new Ghost world sniper k.ill record.........

...posted by Ghost south african fraudsters on wikipedia......

.....how do we trust Seleka rebel claims of 800 k.illed by SANDF in CAR ?



http://mg.co.za/article/2013-08-30-sandf-on-drc-deployment-no-repeat-of-car-massacre
[/size]


https://www.taranormal.com/store/images/GhostSoldiersPatchSticker_3-5x2-25.jpg

where in the (south african source) do you get the info for your statments?

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31736:sandf-mum-about-drc-sniper-super-shot&catid=55:SANDF&Itemid=108

“South Africa was not specifically requested to supply snipers as part of its troop contribution but the 850-strong battalion moved to the DRC to be part of the FIB does have certain capabilities,” Lieutenant General Derrick Mgwebi told a briefing in Thaba Tshwane this morning when asked about the sniper’s kill.

“That is a question you would have to ask the UN,” was all he would say. At the time of publication the UN Peacekeeping Operations website did not carry any information about the sniper shot.

agaugust: .



[size=16pt]Ukraine's air force Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunships finish the tactical attack on M23 rebels

.....after which UN is confident enough to slowly give a chance in a less capable South African air force with Rooivalk helicopter gunships in congo DRC

Tanzania's army Artillery guns complete the tactical bombardment of M23 rebels

.....after this the UN is confident enough to reluctantly invite a less courageous South African army with G6 or other artillery guns in congo DRC [/size]


the world's (UN) tested, tried, and trusted military forces have done the most important job of MASTERS in combat, the SERVANTS are now invited to come from Soweto land to follow the teaching and footsteps of their MASTERS.

"The UN and the Congolese army sent MI24 and MI25 helicopters flown by Ukrainian pilots. The gunships, first made by the Soviet Union, strafed hillsides with 30mm rounds and fired rockets, a UN source said.

"We made several passes on rebel positions," the UN official said"

http://reliefweb.int/report/democratic-republic-congo/un-drc-helicopter-gunships-attack-m23-rebels



Ukraine shines in Congo DRC, European backbone of UN air power, clears the frontline for others to follow
https://i.imgur.com/LS4m6XS.jpg

my God you are a fool, the UN has asked for rooivalks along tome ago, if they did not think they were better they would have just asked for hinds, and we were only just asked for our ARTY but you jump to these conclusions, yes this is wshy i call you a fool with zero credbliety. please leave this forum and stop embarsing every african with your perthticness

chris365: yeah, and you failed woefully until other SADC troops came to your rescue

South Africans botch military intervention in Lesotho

They achieved the exact opposite. Moving in against fierce resistance, with poor information from their intelligence apparatus, they failed to secure their objectives timeously, and stood by while the Basotho basically looted and burnt down their own capital. The major causes of this failure were due to a lack of intelligence as to the situation on the ground, and the fact that they were understrength militarily for an operation of this nature.

I suspect that most of the South African casualties occurred in the first few hours as the South Africans waltzed in like some sort of colonial expedition, expecting the natives to see our "maxim guns" and run away. Wars don't happen like that. Something the South African general staff only realised to its dismay when it was too late.

your military lacks the capability to lead.. simple
http://www.ecn.org/communitas/en/en121.html

\By the time the other countries rocked up the coup had been stoped, so please stop with you bull, but this has been discussed and you still menstion it, because tou a fool

Henry120: This is what fans in baseball call a "home run". Now let us sit back and see how they spin this one.

Andrewza and white pig @craigb over to you.

how about the article is from the first day of fighting.

agaugust: .

[size=16pt]NEWS : Only Tanzanian Army Has Fired On M23 Rebels So Far....

As Congo DRC Army Releases Official Battlefield Status Confirmation [/size]

"Congolese army sources say that only the Tanzanian troops in the Intervention Brigade have fired at the M23 so far, and they did so from some ways behind the government forces' front lines."

http://allafrica.com/stories/201308250124.html


the new toast of African military rankings.....Tanzanian army from the land of Tanzanites !

.

yes old articles

agaugust: .

[size=16pt]UN Asks South African Army To Step Behind.....

....Moves Tanzanian Army To Frontline Battle In Congo DRC[/size]


UN wants the stronger and more experienced Tanzanian army to be in the frontline battles, thus throwing South African army backwards to watch and learn combat from their new Tanzanian military masters.


"A U.N. source said the South African government is not reluctant to combat the M23 rebels, but its forces were not needed in the latest engagement, which required only the use of the Tanzanian field artillery unit.

The intervention brigade commander used to be Tanzania's highest ranking artillery commander."

http://allafrica.com/stories/201308250124.html


Tanzanian army warriors doing Africa proud by protecting and teaching their DENEL equipped South African army brothers

https://edge.passblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Tanzanian-troops-in-DRC1.jpg

That was from friday, wow you are a fool, and arty by it's nature is fired from well behind the front lines.

NaijaPikinGidi: SELEKA kill ratio is a fraud!
SANDF sniper kill and range is a fraud.

The 2 cases mentioned are especially for you!

firstly you mentioned SANDF, yet they never made any statement,

secondly, selka confirmed the deaths so how is a fraud

The SANDF have had this to say on the sniper

The softly spoken but steely-eyed man who heads the SA National Defence Force’s (SANDF) Joint Operations division will not be drawn on whether a South African operator made one of the longest confirmed sniper kill shots in history.

Various South African media have carried reports of a successful two kilometre plus kill by a South African soldier deployed in the DRC as part of the UN Force Intervention Brigade (FIB) this week.

“South Africa was not specifically requested to supply snipers as part of its troop contribution but the 850-strong battalion moved to the DRC to be part of the FIB does have certain capabilities,” Lieutenant General Derrick Mgwebi told a briefing in Thaba Tshwane this morning when asked about the sniper’s kill.

“That is a question you would have to ask the UN,” was all he would say. At the time of publication the UN Peacekeeping Operations website did not carry any information about the sniper shot.

So i ask again please show SANDF fraud

NaijaPikinGidi: Snipers are standard features in any organized military structure! So don't preach to the Pope? It takes SANDF forever to do paperwork? We are monitoring progress in DRC. Any more lies to tell?

actually no, for NATO and CSS yes but not all militaries have snipers in here battalions. The paper work is by the UN so it is in there court, if they sign now we can have rooivalks in the goma by monday.

CraigB: Don't hold your breath.

it will be the same CAR story they try and peddle, forgetting the SANDF has a organisation never mentioned selka losses only saying they were highly and selka them self confirmed their massive losses.

NaijaPikinGidi: We know the undisputed crown kings of military fraudulence - SANDF. No digressions now ... stay with your snipers in your dreams!

mention one case please do i beg of you.

NaijaPikinGidi: Because you live in a world of solitude and delusions. No digressions please! Fake snipers!

because you a coward living in SA, yes you mock us but ran away from nigeria.

NaijaPikinGidi: How does that become an issue! No request was made for SA snipers so why raise the issue of snipers now? It shows they very weak nature of SANDF's personnel and logistics deployment planning. Tactical air support is what you need for DRC and not cowardly snipers. Tanzanian soldier's are stumping the frontlines of the battlefield while your cowardly SANDF wimps ... so cared to do brave battle stay behind aiming random and wasteful long range shots at phantom M23 fighters? Unknown you are ... unknown you'll remain!

And the UN will get rooivalk when they finish the paper works, snippers are standard in all SA infantry battalions, and how are snipers cowards, they operate in tiny teams of 2 to 6 deep behind enemy lines, if caught they are dead.

Why do you say tanzanian is on the front line and not SA, please explian.

CraigB: And the nation that is one of the most violent in the world for journalists.

No wonder they don't know how to extract information from media.

so true there media is not free or fair.

CraigB: It's curious that they use South African media to discredit South African media.

When it suits them, South African media is not a "neutral source".

well they are the nation of corrupt fraudsters

NaijaPikinGidi: Your interpretation is different from the most simple, objective and straightforward interpretation anybody can deduce from Mgwebi's comment! Please spare us your personal thoughts! Phantom sniping warriors ... SANDF?

because you failed to read this sid at the same conference

“South Africa was not specifically requested to supply snipers as part of its troop contribution but the 850-strong battalion moved to the DRC to be part of the FIB does have certain capabilities,” Lieutenant General Derrick Mgwebi told a briefing in Thaba Tshwane this morning when asked about the sniper’s kill.

CraigB: Why is it "a fraud" again?

because they don't believe it and only nigerian sources tell the truth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl-Dkxv2w4A

NaijaPikinGidi: Ouch! That hurts! It hurts like a non-existent sniper's bullet hitting an imaginary target! Yet the crazyBoy is quick to go on to Wiki with false and or unconfirmed fables! Truth always prevails amidst the confusion of lies and propaganda! Notice how Tanzania is doing the real job and not making a noise on the batte frontlines? It's a UN military effort of several countries yet SA is so obsessed about highlighting its tiny individual efforts even if it means making false unconfirmable propaganda claims! They must fight and talk less! That's how war is done! See why their SELEKA kill ratio remains a fraud?

they forgot to add this bit

“South Africa was not specifically requested to supply snipers as part of its troop contribution but the 850-strong battalion moved to the DRC to be part of the FIB does have certain capabilities,” Lieutenant General Derrick Mgwebi told a briefing in Thaba Tshwane this morning when asked about the sniper’s kill.

such has snipers

chris365: there's nothing in the video that proves your version of the story to be true. it was the same man that said your snipers did not kill anybody and protecting your troops means concealing identity, not denying your snipers are involved in the fighting, since everyone knows SANDF is fighting already.

and i'll take him for his words. simple

your media was in a hurry for juicy stories and gullible dumbos like you bought it. end of story

he did not say our snipers did not kill any body he said speak to the UN. And denying they there is protecting them because there may be more teams behind enemy lines and has little info that is given the better.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6642:fact-file-otomelera-76mm62-super-rapid-medium-automatic-cannon&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

76mm gun

The Oto Melara 76mm gun is a widely used naval artillery piece now manufactured by the Italian OTOMelera company and in service with over 50 navies and coast guards.

Capable of very high rates of fire, the dual-purpose gun can engage both surface and air targets. Its compact mount allows its installation on relatively small vessels, including patrol craft.

and the ammunition used by SAN.


High Explosive (HE), HE Pre-fragmented, Fragment Curtain, Practice Anti-Aircraft Flash, Target Practice (TP), TP Tracer, Reference, Semi-armour piercing (SEP), SEP Extended Range, Clearing charge, Ramming and Drill. Chaff and illumination are available as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PuxJIdPbfY

that a large group of sources that told them it was a south african sniper.

https://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/FC/6FBA3FF329F44A47EFB155DD6E6DC.jpg

[img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVTCOsE19vTpvNjZv6tiTT8gPNlx6yEjI0y3Jm_yKObnJVZxMv[/img]

https://sphotos-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/933973_323396831130322_1217823279_n.jpg

chris365: yeah right. you and your media were quick to quote unconfirmed reports. now your military has spoken the truth, you a*s is exposed.

didn't you read where he said it is false? am i the one who wrote the report.

our milltary said

“South Africa was not specifically requested to supply snipers as part of its troop contribution but the 850-strong battalion moved to the DRC to be part of the FIB does have certain capabilities,” Lieutenant General Derrick Mgwebi told a briefing in Thaba Tshwane this morning when asked about the sniper’s kill.


Nowhere did they say it was not a south african, only that it was a UN solder and they should release the detail.