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Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) - Religion (38) - Nairaland

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Archangel Michael Is Jesus Christ / @i.chuka & Others Lets Discuss D Revelation 12 Woman And The Marian Apparition. / Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 5:12pm On Dec 20, 2012
Boomark:

So the decree "You are my son..." was made after his stay on earth?

what kind of child play debate is taking place here that people avoid answering a conclusive question only to reappear and start post what has already been resolved?

@boomark

how many person are authorised to receives worshipful honor among Yahweh's loyal organisation?
.............

How can you claim to stand for the truth when you are not honest?

Well, Yahweh wants us to be honest and defend the truth.

It is obvious that you are either not being honest here or you are being slow or it is a mind set thing.

Why not answer the question and see what you will get? That is if you are ready to learn or you have been infected with some antics of the trinitarians.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by BARRISTERS: 5:48pm On Dec 20, 2012
@Boomark

Boomark:

So the decree "You are my son..." was made after his stay on earth?
Yoooowah! see it below,it was 'fuffiled'........... when it was made is not the issue, but it was after his death! paul aknowledge!

Acts 13:33

''he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "'You are my Son; today I have become your Father.''
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 7:36pm On Dec 20, 2012
BARRISTERS: @Boomark


Yoooowah! see it below,it was 'fuffiled'........... when it was made is not the issue, but it was after his death! paul aknowledge!

Acts 13:33

''he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "'You are my Son; today I have become your Father.''


Jn 3:16

"for God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son,...."

How did he become the only begotten son before his resurrection?

@truthislight

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

@ijawkid

One of the Chief princes is not referring to joint princes of God and those of Satan. They are not of the same kingdom. There are other princes who are not cheifs.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by BARRISTERS: 8:07pm On Dec 20, 2012
Jn 3:16

"for God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son,...."

How did he become the only begotten son before his resurrection?

can you supply us what is meant by 'beggoten'!
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 8:25pm On Dec 20, 2012
Boomark:

Jn 3:16

"for God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son,...."

How did he become the only begotten son before his resurrection?

@truthislight

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

@ijawkid

One of the Chief princes is not referring to joint princes of God and those of Satan. They are not of the same kingdom. There are other princes who are not cheifs.

this is actually a straight forward statement.

Yahweh sent his only beggoton son.

When was the son sent?


Boomark:
@truthislight

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

is this the answer to the question of how many persons receives worshipful honor in Yahweh's organisation?

Meanwhile, how can an archangel be an ordinary angel?

How can the first born of all creation be an ordinary angel?

How can the leader of the whole of Yahweh's angels be an ordinary angel?

How can the captain of Yahweh organization be an ordinary angel?

How can Yahweh's only beggoton son be an ordinary angel?

How can the one through whom all things were created be an ordinary angel?

You are on your own if you say he is.

Besides, there is nothing "ordinary" about being an angel.

There is nothing ordinary about being a messenger of Yahweh.

Not when people are proud of being the messengers of human presidents.

How much more being the messenger of Yahweh? The creator of the univers.

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by ijawkid(m): 9:33pm On Dec 20, 2012
Boomark:

Jn 3:16

"for God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son,...."

How did he become the only begotten son before his resurrection?

@truthislight

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

@ijawkid

One of the Chief princes is not referring to joint princes of God and those of Satan. They are not of the same kingdom. There are other princes who are not cheifs.

Can you please list out the other princes in Gods camp??.......

Maybe you can put Jesus on the list .......uh??.....

The whole of daniel 10 discussed about many princes and there names were mentioned...........if you feel there are other princes in Gods camp you can mention them.....

This michael was both a prince and the arch angel......my brother only Jesus run those roles........except we have to agree that micheal and Jesus are twin brothers with equal authority and power........

This great prince fights against the prince of persia and was to fight against the prince of greece....and that same great prince chased satan out of the heavens,would come in the last days and would ressurect the dead.......

These parallels are just so glaring for one to ignore my bro.............
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by TroGunn(m): 9:36pm On Dec 20, 2012
truthislight:

this is actually a straight forward statement.

Yahweh sent his only beggoton son.

When was the son sent?




is this the answer to the question of how many persons receives worshipful honor in Yahweh's organisation?

Meanwhile, how can an archangel be an ordinary angel?

How can the first born of all creation be an ordinary angel?

How can the leader of the whole of Yahweh's angels be an ordinary angel?

How can the captain of Yahweh organization be an ordinary angel?

How can Yahweh's only beggoton son be an ordinary angel?

How can the one through whom all things were created be an ordinary angel?

You are on your own if you say he is.

Besides, there is nothing "ordinary" about being an angel.

There is nothing ordinary about being a messenger of Yahweh.

Not when people are proud of being the messengers of human presidents.

How much more being the messenger of Yahweh? The creator of the univers.

I don't know why Bookmark loves referring to God's faithful angel as 'ordinary'. No one should belittle the work of these faithful messengers. That one took out 185000 Assyrians shows there's nothing ordinary about them. And what's with asking questions where answers are so apparent? How can the Archangel, who is above other angels by definition, be same level as the angels he's leading?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by TroGunn(m): 9:40pm On Dec 20, 2012
Boomark:

Daniel 10:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 But the prince of the Persian
kingdom resisted me twenty-one
days. Then Michael, one of the chief
princes,
came to help me, because I
was detained there with the king
of Persia.

Chief/foremost princes is not just one person. They are more than one. Michael is the prince of the people.

This Archangel and Prince, which kingdom does he or will he rule? The other princes have kingdoms, right? Which one is the Archangels's if he's not Christ, the Prince of Peace?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 12:05am On Dec 21, 2012
Boomark:


@ijawkid

One of the Chief princes is not referring to joint princes of God and those of Satan. They are not of the same kingdom. There are other princes who are not cheifs.

@Boomark, i see you grapple with Daniel 10:13;. @ijewkid has correctly addressed it, but you are yet to grasp it.
Well, no problem, let look at more and more verses of the Bible, you wil see how you will grab the understanding of thise verse. Lets look into this.

So, we all agree that Michael is one of the chief princes.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of "the" chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia
Note: not one of your chief princes!

However, Michael is also our prince abi!

Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Note: now it says "your prince". Not your princes here.

If Michael is our Prince, so maybe, the other princes are not our princes!

And Michael is the great prince that protects God's people.

You previews post made alot of sense, you said God is not a prince but a King. I hope you are not going to suggest that God as a King has two great Prince
because scripture told us Michael and Jesus are great Prince.

FOR MICHAEL:
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1 and Isaiah 63:7-9

FOR JESUS:
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Acts 3:14-15. "But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,
"and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree.
"Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and "Savior", to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. Acts 5:30-31.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:34am On Dec 21, 2012
pastormustwacc:

This thread has raised many other questions - like preexistence of jesus, trinity, angel, angel of covenant, jesus = god or purely man and others. a good read.

Logicboy, Methinks you ought to win NL poster of the year with the way you are stringing along all these religious folks both in the Islam and religion sections.

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 1:38am On Dec 21, 2012
BARRISTERS:

can you supply us what is meant by 'beggoten'!

beget
1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur;
produce: Violence begets more
violence.

@truthislight and troguun

i never said Michael is an ordinary angel.

Hebrew 1v5 has proven that Michael and Christ are different persons. One is an angel while that other is not.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by TroGunn(m): 6:09am On Dec 21, 2012
Boomark:

beget
1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur;
produce: Violence begets more
violence.

@truthislight and troguun

i never said Michael is an ordinary angel.

Hebrew 1v5 has proven that Michael and Christ are different persons. One is an angel while that other is not.

"For to which of the angels did God ever say.." does not show the Christ is not the Archangel, just as Christ saying "Look at the fig tree and all the trees..." at Luke 21:29 does not mean the fig tree is not a tree. Heb 1v5 is all about highlighting Christ's superiority to angels in general.

You have reduced self to a one-scripture wonder in this thread, just so you hold on to previously held belief, though comprehensively proved to be inaccurate and with a lot of holes.

I sense we are flogging a dead horse on this one with you. It's more about your preheld belief than reason. For you being an 'ordinary' messenger of God means demeaning Christ, even though Christ loves nothing more than doing his Father's will.

The arguments and scriptures put forward here (thanks to every contributor) are more than sufficient to make a sincere person to see that Christ plays the role of Michael the Archangel (Chief or Leader of angels).

Respect must be accorded people like Obadiah777, who came in with a pre-conviction, but can freely reason and sees nothing wrong in changing their stance.

OP, what's ur stance? Has ur question been answered?

2 Likes

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 10:33am On Dec 21, 2012
truthislight:

my guy,

i hope you know that some of the statement in Job were made by the fake/false advisers/companion of Job?

Besides, God will not punish the righteouse yes, but the ruler of this world is satan and as such evil can still happen to the righteouse once.

"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the hand of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19).
THOSE QUOTES ARE FROM JOB, AN ELECT OF ISRAEL, NOT HIS ADVISERS. THATS THE LORD SPEAKING THROUGH JOB. wink AND YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES TRUTHISLIGHT. THE ONLY TIME EVIL WILL HAPPEN TO THE RIGHTEOUS IS IF THE RIGHTEOUS DABBLE IN EVIL

PSALMS 125 VS 3 For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity. << ONLY IF THE RIGHTEOUS PUT THEIR HAND INTO INIQUITY IS WHEN EVIL WILL COMPASS THEM. YOU DO ERR *SMDH*
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 10:37am On Dec 21, 2012
Boomark:

This was how you closed a case yesterday. I opened it again. grin

Try that Hebrew verses and see.

Christ is still a messenger now but not an angel. He still possess flaming fire looks.
LOLZ. WHAT CAN I TELL YA. I DID ERR grin
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 10:48am On Dec 21, 2012
TroGunn:

"For to which of the angels did God ever say.." does not show the Christ is not the Archangel, just as Christ saying "Look at the fig tree and all the trees..." at Luke 21:29 does not mean the fig tree is not a tree. Heb 1v5 is all about highlighting Christ's superiority to angels in general.

You have reduced self to a one-scripture wonder in this thread, just so you hold on to previously held belief, though comprehensively proved to be inaccurate and with a lot of holes.

I sense we are flogging a dead horse on this one with you. It's more about your preheld belief than reason. For you being an 'ordinary' messenger of God means demeaning Christ, even though Christ loves nothing more than doing his Father's will.

The arguments and scriptures put forward here (thanks to every contributor) are more than sufficient to make a sincere person to see that Christ plays the role of Michael the Archangel (Chief or Leader of angels).

Respect must be accorded people like Obadiah777, who came in with a pre-conviction, but can freely reason and sees nothing wrong in changing their stance.

OP, what's ur stance? Has ur question been answered?
WELL SCRIPTURE DO SAY

PROVERBS 25 VS 9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself <<< WHICH WE DID, AND AS A RESULT >>>>> PROVERBS 27 VS 17 Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. <<<< I GOT SHARPENED BY YALL. IT IS THE BEAUTY OF DEBATE. AND BEST BELIEVE THE LORD IS PRESENT IN THIS OUR DEBATE >>> MATTHEW 18 VS 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them <<< THE LORD RIGHT HERE HANGING WITH US wink

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 11:16am On Dec 21, 2012
TroGunn:

"For to which of the angels did God ever say.." does not show the Christ is not the Archangel, just as Christ saying "Look at the fig tree and all the trees..." at Luke 21:29 does not mean the fig tree is not a tree. Heb 1v5 is all about highlighting Christ's superiority to angels in general.

You have reduced self to a one-scripture wonder in this thread, just so you hold on to previously held belief, though comprehensively proved to be inaccurate and with a lot of holes.

I sense we are flogging a dead horse on this one with you. It's more about your preheld belief than reason. For you being an 'ordinary' messenger of God means demeaning Christ, even though Christ loves nothing more than doing his Father's will.

The arguments and scriptures put forward here (thanks to every contributor) are more than sufficient to make a sincere person to see that Christ plays the role of Michael the Archangel (Chief or Leader of angels).

Respect must be accorded people like Obadiah777, who came in with a pre-conviction, but can freely reason and sees nothing wrong in changing their stance.


OP, what's ur stance? Has ur question been answered?

True talk bro....
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 11:19am On Dec 21, 2012
Boomark:

beget
1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur;
produce: Violence begets more
violence.

@truthislight and troguun

i never said Michael is an ordinary angel.

Hebrew 1v5 has proven that Michael and Christ are different persons. One is an angel "while that other is not".

That other is what to you? please back it with scripture!

You have skiped more than two of my qoutes, i want to believe it wasn't intentional ... grin
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 11:20am On Dec 21, 2012
OLAADEGBU:

Logicboy, Methinks you ought to win NL poster of the year with the way you are stringing along all these religious folks both in the Islam and religion sections.


Is this true? are they same person? shocked shocked shocked
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 11:25am On Dec 21, 2012
plappville:

Is this true? are they same person? shocked shocked shocked
PLAPPVILLE YOU KNOW THE WORLD ENDS TODAY RIGHT ? LET ME GIVE YOU MY ACCOUNT NUMBER SO YOU CAN DEPOSIT ALL YOUR MONEY IN IT SINCE YOU WILL NOT BE NEEDING IT AGAIN undecided
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by ijawkid(m): 11:29am On Dec 21, 2012
obadiah777: PLAPPVILLE YOU KNOW THE WORLD ENDS TODAY RIGHT ? LET ME GIVE YOU MY ACCOUNT NUMBER SO YOU CAN DEPOSIT ALL YOUR MONEY IN IT SINCE YOU WILL NOT BE NEEDING IT AGAIN undecided

Would you be needing it??...lmao........you no go kill me with laff....

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 11:36am On Dec 21, 2012
ijawkid:

Would you be needing it??...lmao........you no go kill me with laff....
grin grin I WAN HELP HER UNLOAD HER 'UNNECESSARY BURDEN' MY BROTHER. IT IS A RIGHTEOUS DUTY OF MINE grin
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by TroGunn(m): 11:58am On Dec 21, 2012
obadiah777: THOSE QUOTES ARE FROM JOB, AN ELECT OF ISRAEL, NOT HIS ADVISERS. THATS THE LORD SPEAKING THROUGH JOB. wink AND YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES TRUTHISLIGHT. THE ONLY TIME EVIL WILL HAPPEN TO THE RIGHTEOUS IS IF THE RIGHTEOUS DABBLE IN EVIL

PSALMS 125 VS 3 For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity. << ONLY IF THE RIGHTEOUS PUT THEIR HAND INTO INIQUITY IS WHEN EVIL WILL COMPASS THEM. YOU DO ERR *SMDH*

Fact is bad things can and does happen to the righteous - because the righteous are different and for their difference and forthrightness they are targets of the wicked. Jesus Christ confirmed the righteaous should expect it, but it's not a "permement" suffering - the future hold so much promise for the righteous, but for now, they are not immune to bad things happening to them. Else, they won't need endurance, and Jesus had to endure bad things happening to him when he was on earth, including temptations from the Devil - surely the servant is not greater than the master.

John 15:18-25
New King James Version (NKJV)

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by ijawkid(m): 12:07pm On Dec 21, 2012
obadiah777: grin grin I WAN HELP HER UNLOAD HER 'UNNECESSARY BURDEN' MY BROTHER. IT IS A RIGHTEOUS DUTY OF MINE grin

Lol........na bill gates you for dey tell this thing o.......
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 12:09pm On Dec 21, 2012
TroGunn:

Fact is bad things can and does happen to the righteous - because the righteous are different and for their difference and forthrightness they are targets of the wicked. Jesus Christ confirmed the righteaous should expect it, but it's not a "permement" suffering - the future hold so much promise for the righteous, but for now, they are not immune to bad things happening to them. Else, they won't need endurance, and Jesus had to endure bad things happening to him when he was on earth, including temptations from the Devil - surely the servant is not greater than the master.

John 15:18-25
New King James Version (NKJV)

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.
BUT YOU DO ERR. IF ANYTHING BAD HAPPENS TO YOU, IT IS BECAUSE THE LORD IS LETTING IT HAPPEN TO YOU. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT ALL EVIL IS DIRECTED BY THE LORD. HE DIRECTS WHERE EVIL GOES. AND IF HE DIRECTS THE EVIL TO YOUR SIDE, THEN ITS BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT AS RIGHTEOUS AS YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE. THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS MAN IN THIS WORLD. HE WHO SAYS HE IS WITHOUT SIN IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM

1 JOHN 1 VS 18 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us <<< SO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A RIGHTEOUS PERSON. AS SUCH THE LORD WILL OCCASIONALLY DIRECT EVIL TO YOU FOR CHASTISEMENT AND CORRECTION. THAT VERSE ( PSALMS 125 VS 3 ) IS JUST A BASE VERSE FOR AN IDEAL PERSON WHO HAS NO SIN. MEANING IF IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE HUMANLY PERFECT, THEN NO EVIL WILL COME TO YOU.

NOW THE CASE OF CHRIST IS DIFFERENT. HE HAD TO FULFILL PROPHESY SO AS TO UNITE THE WHOLE WORLD BOTH JEW AND GENTILE UNDER THE LAW. SO HE HAD TO GO THROUGH WHAT HE WENT THROUGH.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Nobody: 12:11pm On Dec 21, 2012
ijawkid:

Lol........na bill gates you for dey tell this thing o.......
BILL GATES IS A DAMN HEATHEN. HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD LET ALONE THE END OF THE WORLD cry grin
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:12pm On Dec 21, 2012
obadiah777: PLAPPVILLE YOU KNOW THE WORLD ENDS TODAY RIGHT ? LET ME GIVE YOU MY ACCOUNT NUMBER SO YOU CAN DEPOSIT ALL YOUR MONEY IN IT SINCE YOU WILL NOT BE NEEDING IT AGAIN undecided

Hahahaha.....why should you need my money when the world is ending? will it not end at your end? Typical 9ja guy, u won brainuse me abi? grin grin grin
The truth be say, no dey concur to doomsday prophecy. They have nothing positive than to contradict the
scripture and to creat fear in minds of ignorants...... grin grin grin

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:13pm On Dec 21, 2012
ijawkid:

Would you be needing it??...lmao........you no go kill me with laff....
No mind him....the world no go end reach him side.... grin grin grin

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:15pm On Dec 21, 2012
obadiah777: grin grin I WAN HELP HER UNLOAD HER 'UNNECESSARY BURDEN' MY BROTHER. IT IS A RIGHTEOUS DUTY OF MINE grin

You err...... grin grin grin

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:36pm On Dec 21, 2012
obadiah777: YES ALL THE FIRST FRUITS WERE RAISED UP DURING THIS PERIOD. THESE FIRST FRUITS WILL THEN HAVE THEIR SINS PERMANENTLY BLOTTED OUT SO THAT THEY CAN PUT TOGETHER THE NEW TESTAMENT WHICH WILL OFFER SALVATION TO THE GENTILE NATIONS. THE FIRST FRUITS WERE ALL ISRAELITES. THE LATER FRUITS WILL BE THE REST OF THE WORLD. THE ISRAELITES WHO ARE THE FIRST FRUIT WILL WRITE THE LAWS THAT WILL UNITE THE GENTILES WITH ISRAEL UNDER THE LAW. THIS IS CALLED THE NEW TESTAMENT. THIS IS WHY CHRIST DEATH SPIRITUALLY RESSURECTED THE FIRST FRUIT PERMANENTLY. SO THAT GOD CAN WORK THROUGH THEM TO WRITE THE NEW TESTAMENT ( PAUL WAS PART OF THE FIRST FRUIT AS WELL AS ALL THE AUTHORS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT ). THE WAGES OF SIN IS SPIRITUAL DEATH. IF YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD THE LORD CANT WORK THROUGH YOU. AND YET THESE FIRST FRUITS WILL STILL BE IN THIS WORLD WITH THEIR SINFUL AND LUSTFUL BODIES. THIS IS WHY THEY NEEDED THEIR RETROACTIVE AND PROACTIVE SINS WIPED OUT SO THE LORD CAN USE THEM WITHOUT THE CONNECTION BEING CUT OFF BY THEIR SINS. AND WITH THE NEW TESTAMENT WRITTEN, THE GENTILE NATIONS CAN START THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO BE PART OF THE LATER FRUITS WHICH WILL BE HARVESTED WHEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS ESTABLISHED PERMANENTLY ON EARTH. HOPE THIS ALL MAKES SENSE TO YOU

SO IF YOU MEAN ARE THE FIRST FRUITS THE ONLY ONES WHO WILL BE HARVESTED ? THE ANSWER IS NO. THERE IS A LATER FRUIT TO BE RAISED FROM SPIRITUAL DEATH WHEN CHRIST RETURNS. HOWEVER YOU WILL GET REFERENCES TO THIS IN THE BOOK OF ACTS ON DOWNWARDS BECAUSE PAUL IS THE APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES AND HIS WORK STARTED ON THE GENTILES FROM ACTS. HOWEVER FOR A SUMMARIZED VERSION YOU CAN READ THE BOOK OF REVELATION CHAPTER 11

AND MAY I ADD, THE DEAD RAISED UP IS NOT PHYSICALLY DEAD PEOPLE. ITS SPIRITUALLY DEAD PEOPLE. THIS IS NO MAGIC TRICK OF RAISING UP HUMANS WHO HAVE PHYSICALLY DIED. THATS CRAZY TALK AND PREPOSTEROUS. THE SPIRIT IS RAISED AND RESSURECTED INTO HEAVEN ( MEANING YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY ALIVE AND RECONNECTED TO GOD )

I just want you to throw more light on this please, I am not getting you because the scripture made it clear that the dead saints that rose appeared to many, so why did you its not "physical"?

Matthew 27:50-53 (KJV)
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


I believed this has been fulfilled, but it was physical no? so how did they appear to many?

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, "and now is", when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Verse 28 and 29 is not yet fulfiled because it talks about the resurrection of the rightous and the unrighteous. which shall be in the second coming of Christ.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is "coming", in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; "they that have done good", unto the resurrection of life; and "they that have done evil", unto the resurrection of damnation.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by TroGunn(m): 2:13pm On Dec 21, 2012
obadiah777: BUT YOU DO ERR. IF ANYTHING BAD HAPPENS TO YOU, IT IS BECAUSE THE LORD IS LETTING IT HAPPEN TO YOU. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT ALL EVIL IS DIRECTED BY THE LORD. HE DIRECTS WHERE EVIL GOES. AND IF HE DIRECTS THE EVIL TO YOUR SIDE, THEN ITS BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT AS RIGHTEOUS AS YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE. THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS MAN IN THIS WORLD. HE WHO SAYS HE IS WITHOUT SIN IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM

1 JOHN 1 VS 18 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us <<< SO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A RIGHTEOUS PERSON. AS SUCH THE LORD WILL OCCASIONALLY DIRECT EVIL TO YOU FOR CHASTISEMENT AND CORRECTION. THAT VERSE ( PSALMS 125 VS 3 ) IS JUST A BASE VERSE FOR AN IDEAL PERSON WHO HAS NO SIN. MEANING IF IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE HUMANLY PERFECT, THEN NO EVIL WILL COME TO YOU.

NOW THE CASE OF CHRIST IS DIFFERENT. HE HAD TO FULFILL PROPHESY SO AS TO UNITE THE WHOLE WORLD BOTH JEW AND GENTILE UNDER THE LAW. SO HE HAD TO GO THROUGH WHAT HE WENT THROUGH.


No one, of course is righteous in the absolute sense, but God counts our faith, backed by actions as righteousness. Abraham wasn't without sin being an offspring of Adam.

Gal 3: 6 - "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness".

Same goes for other people who have faith in God, and after Christ came, in his means of salvation - Jesus Christ.

It's why statement like this gives hope - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".- John 3:16.

Belief, faith (backed by appropriate works) , Jesus Christ leads to reward = everlasting life.

You do err, when you say God directs evil to his people. God does not cause evil. He may permit it, but he's not the source of it. He may and will punish the wicked (obstinate and unfaithful ones) with destruction (absence of life) in his due time - that's not evil, that's divine punishment.

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Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by pastormustwacc: 10:37pm On Dec 21, 2012
This is getting more interesting still, if i am permited to say.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by BARRISTERS: 12:06am On Dec 22, 2012
How did he become the only begotten son before his resurrection?

he became the only begotten son conciously here on earth during his baptism, and not when he was in heaven! he fuffilled Gods decree(made after adam sin),used to remedy the our parents sin when he died.

Matthew wrote when Jesus came up out of the baptismal water:

“And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17 KJV)

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