Jutresbien:

same essence, same nature, same this, same that and yet father and son can be seen but not the holy spirit.

I'm not saying for sure He can't be seen. I just said I coudn't recall any passage which says He could be seen. I could be wrong. I'll study more on that.

Has anyone seen God? We all work by faith and faith is believing in those things not seen. We are all here killing ourselves on existence of trinity or no trinity. As a Catholic, I believe in the doctrine of trinity because I have faith that it is correct. God Himself has appeared to us in three ways. He has Himself, through His son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit. We invent everything controversial and not useful in this country and we are taking the lead in re-inventing Christianity. It is not a place of worship any more but a place for business and class display.

Another verse in the Bible refuting the trinity doctrine
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as
indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and
for whom we live; and there is but one
Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things
came and through whom we live.
wetin una wan hear again?

Chuksxp:

I don't know. Do you prefer disorder?

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace ~ 1Corinthians 14:33a

God is definitely not a God of disorder. Jesus himself said THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I AM.-John 14:28 Again the apostle Paul was inspired to write THE HEAD OF THE CHRIST IS GOD-1st Cor 11:3. That is why the order exits and can never be reversed. Infact more than one verse of the bible refers to Jesus as God's servant(of course thats why God was able to SEND him)-Acts 3:26

Chuksxp:

I'm not saying for sure He can't be seen. I just said I coudn't recall any passage which says He could be seen. I could be wrong. I'll study more on that.

I'll be glad to learn what you find out on that. Check out too if the holy spirit has a name, the father and son do. And maybe why the holy spirit takes on forms-flame of fire, dove etc when it is seen.

Chuksxp:

No.

But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, ~ Acts 57

Lol........

So stephens body became the only place the holy spirit occupied at that instant when he(stephen) looked up into the heavens that was why the holy spirit was not present in that picture....??.....is that what you are saying??......

No make me SMH for you o.........

I'll ask you again,where was the Holy Spirit,the purported third person of the trinity when stephen gazed @ the heavens.??....

ikachi1: Has anyone seen God? We all work by faith and faith is believing in those things not seen. We are all here killing ourselves on existence of trinity or no trinity. As a Catholic, I believe in the doctrine of trinity because I have faith that it is correct. God Himself has appeared to us in three ways. He has Himself, through His son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit. We invent everything controversial and not useful in this country and we are taking the lead in re-inventing Christianity. It is not a place of worship any more but a place for business and class display.

Faith alone is not enough. ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE is required- John 17:3. Thats what Jesus meant by 'the truth will set you free'. Its important to confirm that the bible supports you believes as a christian, else, it'll all be a waste of time.

Jutresbien:

God is definitely not a God of disorder. Jesus himself said THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I AM.-John 14:28 Again the apostle Paul was inspired to write THE HEAD OF THE CHRIST IS GOD-1st Cor 11:3. That is why the order exits and can never be reversed. Infact more than one verse of the bible refers to Jesus as God's servant(of course thats why God was able to SEND him)-Acts 3:26

In another place He says He and the Father are one. We need to harmonize the two. Let's not take on one scripture and reject the other.

Concerning His servant-ship, He chose to be a servant, in mutual agreement with the Father.

"Who, being in very nature of God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant" ~ Philipians 2:6,7

frosbel:

but the bible never says this !!

The bible uses the word 'us' in v26 but then qualifies this with a singular pronoun in v27 , meaning that actually God was consulting his heavenly governing council made up of very high ranking angels.

God always makes his will known to his angels and prophets, for example :

"Then the LORD said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?" - Genesis 18:17


You cannot convert the word 'us' into the holy spirit, father and son when the bible says no such thing. You are assuming this concept based on tradition not on fact or reality.

bt u cn convert it 2 angels abi? Cntinue discieving ur sef dt GOD always tell HIS angels wats HE' S about 2 do. So u mean HE seeks thier permission nd advice 2? Wat does an Omnipotent GOD needs advice for?

Jutresbien:

Faith alone is not enough. ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE is required- John 17:3. Thats what Jesus meant by 'the truth will set you free'. Its important to confirm that the bible supports you believes as a christian, else, it'll all be a waste of time.

JOHN 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD and of the ONE WHOM YOU SENT FORTH, JESUS CHRIST". Jesus said those words in prayer to his father. READ AGAIN AND AGAIN AND PRAYERFULLY MEDITATE.

Chuksxp:


First off, God never said those words to David. The psalm it's found in was by Korah. Secondly, that was a prophecy, which the main interpretation was given to us in Hebrews; showing it was directed to Jesus. Thirdly, no where in scripture are we called 'Gods' with a capital 'G'. Psalm 82 says 'gods' though it was referring to men of authority who were judges, but that a discussion for another day. As for Jesus, the Father calls Him 'God' with a capital 'G'

Were the hebrew and greek texts written with capital letters or small letters??...please answer me....

For your info the hebrew texts were written with all capital letters.......hope you know that??....so don't come here telling me about small and large letters......

And that hebrews 1:8 which is an excerpt from the psalms did have an earlier fulfillment on david......go do your home work well...read down the book of psalms 45 you'll knw those words applied to both a human king and also to Jesus.......

Do your home work well!!!!!!!!!.......

ijawkid:

Lol........

So stephens body became the only place the holy spirit occupied at that instant when he(stephen) looked up into the heavens that was why the holy spirit was not present in that picture....??.....is that what you are saying??......

No make me SMH for you o.........

I'll ask you again,where was the Holy Spirit,the purported third person of the trinity when stephen gazed @ the heavens.??....

You can go back to a post I made earlier. I succinctly stated that the Holy Spirit is omnipresence. And if the Holy Spirit could be seen, who's to say Stephen didn't see Him. Maybe He didn't bother mentioning Him because of the context. If you read the whole chapter, you'd see the emphasis was on Jesus being the Messiah. He wasn't trying to prove the Holy Spirit's divinity. His emphasis was on Jesus.

Chuksxp:

In another place He says He and the Father are one. We need to harmonize the two. Let's not take on one scripture and reject the other.

Concerning His servant-ship, He chose to be a servant, in mutual agreement with the Father.

"Who, being in very nature of God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant" ~ Philipians 2:6,7

JOHN 17:21- Jesus prayed that all his disciples be ONE just as he and the father are ONE. That we be ONE with himself and his father. This godhead is BIGGGGGGGG. Now on a serious note, the oneness means unity of purpose. Husband and wife are one, and yet Husband is head of wife. 1st cor 11:3

This verse stresses the Oneness of God
Ephesians 4:4-6
New International Version
(NIV)
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Trinity has no support from the Bible. Twisting certain Bible verses just to support it, simply causes contradictions in so many other parts of the Bible. Why can people just accept that Jesus is subordinate to the Almighty God, who is only one Yahweh (Jehovah)?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 is enough to debunk trinity -

"Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." -New International Version (NIV)

Whatever name, position or authority Jesus has (including being called Mighty God), he got it from God, the Almighty. And Jesus has got a high position indeed. But Jesus is never called Almighty in the Bible, because he isn't.

This topic was discussed to death recently - https://www.nairaland.com/1064710/dilemma-god-trinity.

Jutresbien:


JOHN 17:21- Jesus prayed that all his disciples be ONE just as he and the father are ONE. That we be ONE with himself and his father. This godhead is BIGGGGGGGG. Now on a serious note, the oneness means unity of purpose. Husband and wife are one, and yet Husband is head of wife. 1st cor 11:3

Not just purpose. Please read the full context of that scenario where Jesus said He and the Father were one. And observed the reactions of the jews to that. They understood what He meant.

I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” ~ John 10:30-33

Chuksxp:

In another place He says He and the Father are one. We need to harmonize the two. Let's not take on one scripture and reject the other.

Concerning His servant-ship, He chose to be a servant, in mutual agreement with the Father.

"Who, being in very nature of God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant" ~ Philipians 2:6,7

We will not take one scripture and reject another, we will allow the bible to explain itself. Jesus is very very important, the mediator between God and man-1st Tim 2:5, Our ransomer- John 14:28 SUBJECT ONLY TO GOD-1ST COR 15:27,28

Chuksxp:


You can go back to a post I made earlier. I succinctly stated that the Holy Spirit is omnipresence. And if the Holy Spirit could be seen, who's to say Stephen didn't see Him. Maybe He didn't bother mentioning Him because of the context. If you read the whole chapter, you'd see the emphasis was on Jesus being the Messiah. He wasn't trying to prove the Holy Spirit's divinity. His emphasis was on Jesus.

That revelation stephen beheld was a revelation that numerous servants of GOD had received long before stephen and even after Him......

It has always been Jesus sitting at the right hand of his Father,never do we see a third person.......

I'm bringing out this point to squash the trinity dogma.....

Todaynatoday: 1. The Trinity Doctrine is
not taught anywhere in
scripture, but trinities
were common in
Paganism and were
prominent in Egypt and Babylon. 2. The beginnings of
recognition of this
doctrine started at the
Council of Nicea
approximately 325 AD.
Hundreds of years after the last book in the Bible
was written. 3. The Council of Nicea was
organized by the Roman
Emperor Constantine and
he had the final say on
matters that he had little
understanding of. 4. Creed followed creed,
and eventually idols were
accepted as forms that
we can worship God
through, and Mary was
exalted to be the Mother of God and worship of the
saints was sanctioned. 5. The organized church was
built on top of these
creeds. The creeds were
and are the foundation
for many of today's
churches/denominations. These denominations are
different to the Body of
Christ spoken of in the
scriptures. This shows us
that most denominations
are still rooted in a creed and in particular the
Trinity Doctrine. Most
denominations still have
the Trinity Doctrine as a
foundation and this
doctrine originally came from Babylon. 6. The mother of these
denominations the Roman
Catholic Church
murdered approximately
50 million people, had
armies and banned access to scripture to
Christians. This time is
known today as the Dark
Ages. 7. Some relief came during
the Reformation where
the teachings and
authority of the Catholic
Church were challenged.
The Reformation restored many truths
back to the Body of
Christ. 8. As a result many new
denominations started up
and unfortunately they
held onto some of the
creeds and in particular
the Trinity Doctrine.

I condemn your post for its weak facts... You say the word trinity is not in d scriptures, are the words Easter, new year, bible, chapel, Sunday, reverend etc written in the bible...
Next, the worship of saints was never sanctioned along with the worship of idols,... If you ask any good catholic whether they worship saints or idols, they'll tell u no... The saint act as intercessors in heaven, they are also exalted men and women of God... The saints worshipped God while on earth, so why wud ppl worship them wen they pass away, pls use ur common sense... You sound like an iconoclast wen u say Catholics worship idols n pictures... In our modern day we have cameras which we use to take pictures of our loved ones, in china, the ppl bow to each other in honor or to greet their elders.. In ancient rome b4 the inception of Christianity, the roman had statues of different gods n goddesses but they wud honour their gods by makin statues while worshipping them... Do u get my point ancient Rome honoured the statues of their gods, but the Israelites during the time of the pharoughs did not honour idols but rather worshipped them, we shd learn to differentiate btwn words like honour n worship... I wud also like to add that the reformation brought nothing but havoc especially to the twenty-first century, look at these modern day reformed churches, there's insufficient remorse for sin within them, a gal wud ride on a guy's disco stick through out a Saturday night but wud come to church Sunday morning dancing like Miriam in the bible.... U need to see ways actuali going on, our lord once told st. Peter that the gates of hell shall never triumph over the church, but which church do u think he was referring to, do u think it's these new comin churches hu knw nothing abt hw Christ was worshipped on d past or Tz those orthodox n catholic churches that were present in d past... I pray that u may see the light

I believe in the blessed trinity.

Chuksxp:

Not just purpose. Please read the full context of that scenario where Jesus said He and the Father were one. And observed the reactions of the jews to that. They understood what He meant.

I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” ~ John 10:30-33

You base your believe not one what Jesus said, but on how the Jews UNDERSTOOD him? Isn't that risky? What if the jews misunderstood him(like they obviously did)?

Please don't stop at 33, read down to verse 36. Clearing up their MISUNDERSTANDING Jesus said,"do you say I blaspheme because I say to you I AM GOD'S SON?"

TroGunn: Trinity has no support from the Bible. Twisting certain Bible verses just to support it, simply causes contradictions in so many other parts of the Bible. Why can people just accept that Jesus is subordinate to the Almighty God, who is only one Yahweh (Jehovah)?

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 is enough to debunk trinity -

"Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." -New International Version (NIV)

Whatever name, position or authority Jesus has (including being called Mighty God), he got it from God, the Almighty. And Jesus has got a high position indeed. But Jesus is never called Almighty in the Bible, because he isn't.

This topic was discussed to death recently - https://www.nairaland.com/1064710/dilemma-god-trinity.

hahahahaha... rOTFLMAO... NIV is nt a bible joor, that is a book that has twisted the original scriptures (bible)

Artemisthe1st: hahahahaha... rOTFLMAO... NIV is nt a bible joor, that is a book that has twisted the original scriptures (bible)

You should read that verse from a bible and see if the meaning is different before rotf and l

Chuksxp:

Not just purpose. Please read the full context of that scenario where Jesus said He and the Father were one. And observed the reactions of the jews to that. They understood what He meant.

I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” ~ John 10:30-33

The Jews understood Jesus so much that they killed him, abi? Isn't it clear the Jews, led by the Pharisees completely misundertood everything Jesus stood for, completely missing the fact that he was the messiah they were expecting, but were more interested in having him killed so they could keep their lofty position? They were so looking for what to charge him with, if nothing surfaced, they would have killed him for eating oranges!

Jutresbien:

You should read that verse from a bible and see if the meaning is different before rotf and l

guy, i don't av dt luxury to sit down n read ur boringing post, i advise wen next u want to quote bible for us, use a reasonable bible not one dt was twisted by heretics n schismatics

Artemisthe1st: guy, i don't av dt luxury to sit down n read ur boringing post, i advise wen next u want to quote bible for us, use a reasonable bible not one dt was twisted by heretics n schismatics

KK. U prefer King James?

Artemisthe1st: hahahahaha... rOTFLMAO... NIV is nt a bible joor, that is a book that has twisted the original scriptures (bible)

NIV is the New International Version, a Bible translation I like because it's in modern English. Meaning is same whichever translation you look up.

Here's the same from New King James Version (NKJV)- 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”[a] But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Jutresbien:

You base your believe not one what Jesus said, but on how the Jews UNDERSTOOD him? Isn't that risky? What if the jews misunderstood him(like they obviously did)?

Please don't stop at 33, read down to verse 36. Clearing up their MISUNDERSTANDING Jesus said,"do you say I blaspheme because I say to you I AM GOD'S SON?"

To call yourself the Son of God isn't something to take lightly. Everyone knew that by calling Himself the Son of God He was claiming deity. He was claiming equality with God. See John 5:18

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ~ John 5:18

Jutresbien:

KK. U prefer King James?

king James, is triple times better than NIV, but it was compiled by the Anglicans, and there just abt 500 yrs old... I prefer using scriptures that av nt bn soiled by human hands... U knw say sm of d reasons we av many denominations is because of the number of different translated bibles... So i use the new Jerusalem bible, or the Armenian or the Septuagint, those were the first scripture compiled books used by the apostles themselves

Artemisthe1st: guy, i don't av dt luxury to sit down n read ur boringing post, i advise wen next u want to quote bible for us, use a reasonable bible not one dt was twisted by heretics n schismatics

Where is the proof? It seems that you are not here to learn, you feel that you know it all and sadly, you don't.

TroGunn:

The Jews understood Jesus so much that they killed him, abi? Isn't it clear the Jews, led by the Pharisee completely misundertood everything Jesus stood for, completely missing the fact that he was the messiah they were expecting, but were more interested in having him killed so they could keep their lofty position? They were so looking for what to charge him with, if nothing surfaced, they would have killed him for eating oranges!

Of course they killed Him. Their hearts were evil. They saw the Light and despised the Light because they loved their darkness.

Chuksxp:

To call yourself the Son of God isn't something to take lightly. Everyone knew that by calling Himself the Son of God He was claiming deity. He was claiming equality with God. See John 5:18

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ~ John 5:18

That's what the Jews claimed, not what Jesus said. We haven't exhausted the things he said about he and his father and you think we should start looking out how his listeners(not his disciples but his enemies) understood him? Naaaaaah. Now this is how his disciples understood him- MATT 16:16. 'In response Peter said to him, you are the CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD"