Who bought the Church with His blood?

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he has purchased with his own blood. ~ Acts 20:28 (KJV)

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. Acts 20:28 (NIV)

God bought the Church with His blood shed on the Cross.

I think it's time for me to go to sleep. For all those reading this, please look at all the scriptures posted in this thread. Prayerfully study them and ask God to reveal the truth to you. If you do not believe He is who He says He is, you will perish. Seek Him and you will find Him, because He loves you.

Pls in as much as we worship God by faith we shouldnt throw away our brainpower to try to find the truth the scriptures made this clear enough. Most of the beleivers/preachers of trinity beleive cos its their church doctrine not cos of personal conviction. Humans are law lovers we always want to be told this is bad, this is good, follow this, dont do this....... But whot we failed to understand is that there are no fast rules to worship God. Rules/laws/doctrine are meant to cage/imprison us. Paul did alot of explanation on this in the book of romans. Serving God is personal it shouldnt be based on denomination/church doctrine. (that was why jesus never gave any new law though he further clarrified some). In whatever way u deem it fit to serve God let it be base on ur own personal conviction not on ur pastor or sunday skul teacher have ur own encounter (d scriptures says we should worship God in truth nd spirit. A true child of God should have God's spirit to discern the truth rom 12:2). But u shouldnt say ur way of worship is the only nd d best way this is where we all got it wrong. God is not particular about hw u worship him he is more interested if u re truly worshiping him in spirit nd truth. But u might say if God is not interested in laws then why do we sin. Its not that they re no rules but the rules re determined by God spirit in u nd its strictly personal. But mind u Gods spirit is sorely dependent on ur spiritual maturity which is in turn is dependent on whot u feed it( dat why we must always seek wisdom nd knowledge and get understanding).
Now to the issue of trinity if u re fully convince in d spirit that God is trinity then serve him in trinity if otherwise continue to serve him d way u think is the true way. You dont need to convince anybody i think God can do dat better. I dont beleive in trinity(cos i dont have d personal conviction) but i cant say God will not accept trinity beleivers

^^bros, i hope you read your bible sir,
Acts 2:42 says: And so they steadfastly continue in the Apostle's doctrine and fellowship, in breaking of bread and in prayers
not forsaken the assembly of ourselves together, as is the manner of some (Hebrews 10:25a)

this verses clearly shows that Jesus taught the apostles, the apostles taught their followers what Jesus taught them and so it was from the early churches, the point of gathering is to help each other in growing in the scriptures.

yes it's true having faith is a personal thing, but when it gets to the point you create what you want to believe despite all the evidence it is called idolatry. Jesus wasn't killed because he healed the sick or preached love he was killed because the Jews believed he was a blasphemer claiming equality with God.

Hehehehe.... Funny thread. Trinitarians, una funny sha. Its only Trinitarians that would say:
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(1) A person (Jesus) can be equal to his God (John 17:20).
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(2) The Father is greater than the Son (John 14:28), yet they are equal.
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(3) The Father gives the Son authority, and the Son subjects himself to God (1 Cor 15:27,28), yet they are equal.
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(4) The Father is the head of the Son (1 Cor 11:3), yet they are equal.
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(5) The Father's will dominates that of the son (Luke 22:42), yet they are equal.
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(6) The Father sent the Son (John 17:3), but they are equal.
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(7) The Son cannot speak of his own originality but what the father tells him (John 7:17; 14:10), yet they are equal.
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(8.) The Father gave the Son a revelation (Rev 1:1), yet they equal.
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(9) The Father resurrected the Son (2 Cor 4:14), yet they are equal.
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(10) The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative (John 5:19) but does what he beholds the Father doing, yet he is equal to the father anyway.
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(11) The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus is the one He sent (John 17:3), yet they are equal.
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(12) Jesus doesnt have the power to grant the sitting at his right or left, but his Father does (Matt 20:20-23), yet they are equal.
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(13) Blasphemy against the Son will be forgiven but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not be forgiven (Matt 12:31,32), yet they are the same.
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I don tire to cite instances sef... Its endless. The Bible quashes the pagan doctrine everywhere you go.
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When people who refuse to think, have no sensible answers to the questions posed to them from the gaping holes of that pagan doctrine, they would say God is a mystery. Yet Jesus said knowledge of God and (Jesus) himself would mean life (John 17:3).
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Trinitarians, I smh for una sha.

tevinsolt: Jesus wasn't killed because he healed the sick or preached love he was killed because the Jews believed he was a blasphemer claiming equality with God.

Didnt the Jews accuse him of planning to destroy the literal temple and build it again in 3days? Could it be that is what Jesus truly meant just because that is how the Jews understood it .? Remember they were unbelieving Jews. Do you really want to base your Christian faith on what unbelieving Jews thought of Jesus?

so according to your interpretation, because your father is older, has more life experience, brought you to life and send you on errands.....you aren't the same Human beings? you don't have the same human attributes?

but unless you are saying you father is an alien from out of space....... pls clarify

Oahray: Didnt the Jews accuse him of planning to destroy the literal temple and build it again in 3days? Could it be that is what Jesus truly meant just because that is how the Jews understood it .? Remember they were unbelieving Jews. Do you really want to base your Christian faith on what unbelieving Jews thought of Jesus?

and that's why they killed him? read your bible sir...what about the different occasions they picked up stones to kill him? what about the book of John that clearly states the word which is God came to dwell among men, but they rejected him? what about where he said he is before Abraham? what about where he said

7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
9And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

Mr tevinsolt, equality means equality. Do not our fingers have the same nature (flesh, blood, bone, nail and appearance)? How is it people say all fingers are not equal? Or don't you say that too?
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You do not need to answer that if it would be embarassing.
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All fingers are not equal cos some are longer than some, despite the fact that they are all fingers.
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So how is it you say the Father and the Son are equal just because they have same nature even when Jesus said his Father is his God and is greater than him?
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By the way, as long as I am under my dad's roof, he has more authority than I do, therefore he is greater. As long as he fathered me, we cannot be equals. The fact that I am his carbon copy doesnt make me equal to him.

you are going against yourself here, don't see the bigger picture here? you and your father are both equal in the sense that you are both Humans even though you exist in a father to son relationship in this case (finite). God the father, Jesus and the Holy spirit have all existed coequally and eternally....that's why God is the the embodiment of what true love is

tevinsolt:

and that's why they killed him? read your bible sir...what about the different occasions they picked up stones to kill him? what about the book of John that clearly states the word which is God came to dwell among men, but they rejected him? what about where he said he is before Abraham? what about where he said

7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
9And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

They killed Jesus because they hated him. John 11:45-53 shows that the chief priests and the pharisees first started plotting Jesus' death after He raised up Lazarus. They saw the way people were believing in him. They believed they were acting in the interest of their nation. They simply tried to fault his teachings as an excuse.
Try being more familiar with your bible sir.

tevinsolt: you are going against yourself here, don't see the bigger picture here? you and your father are both equal in the sense that you are both Humans even though you exist in a father to son relationship in this case (finite). God the father, Jesus and the Holy spirit have all existed coequally and eternally....that's why God is the the embodiment of what true love is

Is that what equality means to you? Get a dictionary. If we are equal it means we are of the same status. We are both humans but if you send me on errands and I go, saying 'let your will, not mine, be done', would any sane person watching conclude we are equal?
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Try thinking dude, it doesnt hurt.

Oahray: Is that what equality means to you? Get a dictionary. If we are equal it means we are of the same status. If you send me errands and I go saying 'let your will, not mine, be done', would any sane person watching conclude we are equal?
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Try thinking dude, it doesnt hurt.

really? this the definition from a dictionary and how it could be applied to different cases
the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.
uniform character, as of motion or surface.
Mathematics . a statement that two quantities are equal; equation.

you could be richer than me, better looking, but can you fly without the aide of a aircraft or whatever u may have?....the answer is no because as humans we don't have that ability, so that levels us all

tevinsolt:

really? this the definition from a dictionary and how it could be applied to different cases
the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability .
uniform character, as of motion or surface.
Mathematics . a statement that two quantities are equal; equation.

Quantity: God gives Jesus authority and elevates him. The Son subjects himself to his Father (1 Cor 15:27, 28). So the Father has more authority.
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Value: Jesus called his father the ONLY TRUE GOD (John 17:3)
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Rank: The head of the Christ is God (1 Cor 1:3)
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Degree: The Father is greater than I (Jesus) am (John 14:28)
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Ability: Jesus said the capacity to decide who sits at his right or left hand in the kingdom wasnt his but belongs to his Father (Matt 20:20-23).
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From the above definition of equality, they are not equal.
Got any other definition?

you can't be a christian if you don't understands God's nature, first of all you play deaf ears to the message of the forerunner of Christ, John......you fail to realize Jesus was both fully God and Fully Human and by being fully human, he was subjected to temptation, he prayed in order to communicate with God. him saying the father is greater than I doesn't make him less of the one and only God you are just using the same claims Muslims use. claiming to be lesser than my father doesn't make me less of a human if went to another solar system with a different kind of being to introduce myself.

tevinsolt: you can't be a christian if you don't understands God's nature, first of all you play deaf ears to the message of the forerunner of Christ, John......you fail to realize Jesus was both fully God and Fully Human and by being fully human, he was subjected to temptation, he prayed in order to communicate with God.

'fully God and fully human'. Just like saying something is completely hot and completely cold. This isnt biblical either. The Bible says Jesus was put to death in the flesh and was made alive in the spirit (1 Peter 3:18). He died a man, was raised up by God his Father as a spirit. While he was on earth, he needed holy spirit (with which he was anointed at baptism) to carry out his ministry, overcome temptations, and perform miracles. Why? Because he was only human, though perfect.

him saying the father is greater than I doesn't make him less of the one and only God you are just using the same claims Muslims use. claiming to be lesser than my father doesn't make me less of a human if went to another solar system with a different kind of being to introduce myself.

Be reasonable youngman! If I say you are a greater writer than I am, it automatically means I am inferior. That is exactly what Jesus meant. The Father is greater in rank, power and authority, and the Son is lesser! Or are you saying Jesus lied?
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YOU CAN'T BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN IF YOU TEACH THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT JESUS TAUGHT!

Jesus never taught this, so the disciples came up with it?, and you are using the book they wrote to know God?.....why were were the apostles killed too? they were political problems too....hmmm and what you've shown is you engage in selective reading sir.....the word trinity, rapture, tribulation are not in the bible, but the ideas events and teaching yes

Jutresbien:


JOHN 17:21- Jesus prayed that all his disciples be ONE just as he and the father are ONE. That we be ONE with himself and his father. This godhead is BIGGGGGGGG. Now on a serious note, the oneness means unity of purpose. Husband and wife are one, and yet Husband is head of wife. 1st cor 11:3

thank u my bro...God indeed is made up of family..He is singular but in essence plural

bola4dprec: Sura 5.72 Certainly they disbelieve who say:
Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and
the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah,
my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates
(others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to
him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there
shall be no helpers for the unjust.

..sorry the Bible is complete we dont need a strange book testifyin that Jesus is the Son of God..ur book potrays Him as s servant NOT A SAVIOR..THROW DAT BOOK AWAY AND COME TO JESUS. HE IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.

1) None of the Bible’s Writers Believed That Jesus is God:

Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. They are, however, divided over the question of his divinity.

Fortunately, this difference can be resolved if we refer the question to both the Bible and the Quran, because, both the Bible and the Quran teach that Jesus is not God.

It is clear enough to everyone that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus, so we do not need to spend much time explaining that.

On the other hand, many people misunderstand the Bible; they feel that the belief in Jesus as God is so widespread that it must have come from the Bible. This article shows quite conclusively that the Bible does not teach that.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. In the Bible God is always someone else other than Jesus.

Some will say that something Jesus said or something he did while on the earth proves that he is God. We will show that the disciples never came to the conclusion that Jesus is God. And those are people who lived and walked with Jesus and thus knew first hand what he said and did. Furthermore, we are told in the Acts of the Apostles in the Bible that the disciples were being guided by the Holy Spirit. If Jesus is God, surely they should know it. But they did not. They kept worshipping the one true God who was worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (see Acts 3:13).

All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9).

Paul, believed to be the author of some thirteen or fourteen letters in the Bible, also believed that Jesus is not God. For Paul, God first created Jesus, then used Jesus as the agent by which to create the rest of creation (see Colossians 1:15 and 1 Corinthians 8:6). Similar ideas are found in the letter to the Hebrews, and also in the Gospel and Letters of John composed some seventy years after Jesus. In all of these writings, however, Jesus is still a creature of God and is therefore forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28).

Now, because Paul, John, and the author of Hebrews believed that Jesus was God’s first creature, some of what they wrote clearly show that Jesus was a pre-existent powerful being. This is often misunderstood to mean that he must have been God. But to say that Jesus was God is to go against what these very authors wrote. Although these authors had this later belief that Jesus is greater than all creatures, they also believed that he was still lesser than God. In fact, John quotes Jesus as saying: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28). And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God (see 1 Corinthians 11:3).

Therefore, to find something in these writings and claim that these teach that Jesus is God is to misuse and misquote what those authors are saying. What they wrote must be understood in the context of their belief that Jesus is a creature of God as they have already clearly said.

So we see then, that some of the later writers had a higher view of Jesus, but none of the writers of the Bible believed that Jesus is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only one true God, the one whom Jesus worshipped (see John 17: 3).

In the rest of this article we will explore the Bible in more depth, and deal with the passages which are most often misquoted as proofs of Jesus’ divinity. We will show, with God’s help, that these do not mean what they are so often used to prove.
2) Evidence From the Acts of the Apostles:

Jesus performed many miraculous wonders, and he without doubt said a lot of wonderful things about himself. Some people use what he said and did as a proof that he was God. But his original disciples who lived and walked with him, and were eyewitnesses to what he said and did, never reached this conclusion.

The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Throughout this period they never refer to Jesus as God. They continually and consistently use the title God to refer to someone else other than Jesus.

Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed the crowd saying: “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.” (Acts 2:22).

It was God, therefore, who did the miracles through Jesus to convince people that Jesus was backed by God. Peter did not see the miracles as proof that Jesus is God.

In fact, the way Peter refers to God and to Jesus makes it clear that Jesus is not God. For he always turns the title God away from Jesus. Take the following references for example:

“God has raised this Jesus...” (Acts 2:32)

“God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)

In both passages, the title God is turned away from Jesus. So why he did this, if Jesus was God?

For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God. Peter said: “God raised up his servant...” (Acts 3:26). The title servant refers to Jesus. This is clear from a previous passage where Peter declared: “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.” (Acts 3:13).

Peter must have known that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob never spoke of a Triune God. They always spoke of God as the only God. Here, as in Matthew 12:18, Jesus is the servant of God. Matthew tells us that Jesus was the same servant of God spoken of in Isaiah 42:1. So, according to Matthew and Peter, Jesus is not God, but God’s servant. The Old Testament repeatedly says that God is alone (e.g. Isaiah 45:5).

All of the disciples of Jesus held this view. In Acts 4:24 we are told that the believers prayed to God saying: “...they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.’” It is clear that the one they were praying to was not Jesus, because, two verses later, they referred to Jesus as “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.” (Acts 4:27).

If Jesus was God, his disciples should have said this clearly. Instead, they kept preaching that Jesus was God’s Christ. We are told in Acts: “Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.” (Acts 5:42).

The Greek word “Christ” is a human title. It means “Anointed.” If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like servant and Christ of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who raised Jesus? Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the authorities, Peter declared: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...” (Acts 5:29-30).

Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit (see Acts 2:3, 4:8, and 5:32). They were simply teaching what they had learnt from Jesus — that Jesus was not God but, rather, God’s servant and Christ.

The Quran confirms that Jesus was the Messiah (Christ), and that he was God’s servant (see the Holy Quran 3:45 and 19:30).
3) Jesus is Not All-Powerful, and Not All-Knowing:

Christians and Muslims agree that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. The Gospels show that Jesus was not all-powerful, and not all-knowing, since he had some limitations.

Mark tells us in his gospel that Jesus was unable to do any powerful work in his hometown except few things: “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.” (Mark 6:5). Mark also tells us that when Jesus tried to heal a certain blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (see Mark 8:22-26).

Therefore, although we hold a great love and respect for Jesus, we need to understand that he is not the all-powerful God.

Mark’s Gospel also reveals that Jesus had limitations in his knowledge. In Mark 13:32, Jesus declared that he himself does not know when the last day will occur, but the Father alone knows that (see also Matthew 24:36).

Therefore, Jesus could not have been the all-knowing God. Some will say that Jesus knew when the last day will occur, but he chose not to tell. But that complicates matters further. Jesus could have said that he knows but he does not wish to tell. Instead, he said that he does not know. We must believe him. Jesus does not lie at all.

The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52). In Hebrews too (Hebrews 5: we read that Jesus learned obedience. But God’s knowledge and wisdom is always perfect, and God does not learn new things. He knows everything always. So, if Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and thus he was not God.

Another example for the limited knowledge of Jesus is the fig tree episode in the Gospels. Mark tells us as follows: “The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.” (Mark 11:12-13).

It is clear from these verses that the knowledge of Jesus was limited on two counts. First, he did not know that the tree had no fruit until he came to it. Second, he did not know that it was not the right season to expect figs on trees.

Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2).

Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. God said so according to Malachi 3:6.

Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).

The Bible clearly shows that Jesus was not all-powerful and all-knowing as the true God should be.
4) The Greatest Commandment in the Bible and the Quran:

Some will say that this whole discussion over the divinity of Jesus is unnecessary. They say, the important thing is to accept Jesus as your personal savior. On the contrary, the Bible’s writers stressed that, in order to be saved, it is necessary to understand who exactly is God. Failure to understand this would be to violate the first and greatest of all the commandments in the Bible. This commandment was emphasized by Jesus, on whom be peace, when a teacher of the Law of Moses asked him: “‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’ ‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’” (Mark 12:28-30).

Notice that Jesus was quoting the first commandment from the book of Deuteronomy 6:4-5. Jesus confirmed not only that this commandment is still valid, but also that it is the most important of all the commandments. If Jesus thought that he himself is God, why did not he say so? Instead, he stressed that God is one. The man who questioned Jesus understood this, and what the man says next makes it clear that God is not Jesus, for he said to Jesus: “‘Well said, teacher,’ the man replied. ‘You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.’” (Mark 12:32).

Now if Jesus was God, he would have told the man so. Instead, he let the man refer to God as someone other than Jesus, and he even saw that the man had spoken wisely: “When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, ‘You are not far from the kingdom of God.’” (Mark 12:34). If Jesus knew that God is a trinity, why did not he say so? Why did not he say that God is one in three, or three in one? Instead, he declared that God is one. True imitators of Jesus will imitate him also in this declaration of God’s oneness. They will not add the word three where Jesus never said it.

Does salvation depend on this commandment? Yes, says the Bible! Jesus made this clear when another man approached Jesus to learn from him (see Mark 10:17-29). The man fell on his knees and said to Jesus: “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus replied: “Why do you call me good? No one is good — except God alone.” (Mark 10:17-18).

By so saying, Jesus made a clear distinction between himself and God. Then he proceeded with the answer to the man’s question about how to get salvation. Jesus told him: “If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17, also see Mark 10:19).

Remember that the most important of all the commandments, according to Jesus, is to know God as the only God. Jesus further emphasized this in the Gospel According to John. In John 17:1, Jesus lifted his eyes to heaven and prayed, addressing God as Father. Then in verse three, he said to God as follows: “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” (John 17:3).

This proves beyond doubt that if people want to get eternal life they must know that the One, whom Jesus was praying to, is the only true God, and they must know that Jesus was sent by the true God. Some say that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. But Jesus said that the Father alone is the only true God. True followers of Jesus will follow him in this too. Jesus had said that his true followers are those who hold to his teachings. He said: “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.” (John 8:31). His teaching is that people must continue to keep the commandments, especially the first commandment which emphasizes that God is alone, and that God should be loved with all our hearts and all our strengths.

We love Jesus, but we must not love him as God. Today many love Jesus more than they love God. This is because they see God as a vengeful person who wanted to exact a penalty from them, and they see Jesus as the savior who rescued them from the wrath of God. Yet God is our only savior. According to Isaiah 43:11, God said: “I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.” Also God said according to Isaiah 45:21-22: “Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.”

The Quran confirms the first commandment and addresses it to all humankind (see the Holy Quran 2:163). And God declares that true believers love Him more than anyone else or anything else (Quran 2:165).
5) Paul Believed That Jesus is not God:

Many people use Paul’s writings as proof that Jesus is God. But this is not fair to Paul, because Paul clearly believed that Jesus is not God. In his first letter to Timothy, Paul wrote: “I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions...” (1 Timothy 5:21).

It is clear from this that the title God applies not to Christ Jesus, but to someone else. In the following chapter, he again differentiates between God and Jesus when he says: “In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession...” (1 Timothy 6:13).

Paul then went on to speak of the second appearance of Jesus: “the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time.” (1 Timothy 6:14-15).

Again, the title God is deliberately turned away from Jesus. Incidentally, many people think that when Jesus is called “Lord” in the Bible that this means “God.” But in the Bible this title means master or teacher, and it can be used for addressing humans (see 1 Peter 3:6).

What is more important, however, is to notice what Paul said about God in the following passage, which clearly shows that Jesus is not God: “God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever.” (1 Timothy 6:15-16).

Paul said that God alone is immortal. Immortal means he does not die. Check any dictionary. Now, anyone who believes that Jesus died cannot believe that Jesus is God. Such a belief would contradict what Paul said here. Furthermore, to say that God died is a blasphemy against God. Who would run the world if God died? Paul believed that God does not die.

Paul also said in that passage that God dwells in unapproachable light — that no one has seen God or can see him. Paul knew that many thousands of people had seen Jesus. Yet Paul said that no one has seen God, because Paul was sure that Jesus is not God. This is why Paul went on teaching that Jesus was not God, but that he was the Christ (see Acts 9:22 and 18:5).

When he was in Athens, Paul spoke of God as “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.” (Acts 17:24). Then he identified Jesus as “the man he (i.e. God) has appointed.” (Acts 17:31).

Clearly, for Paul, Jesus was not God, and he would be shocked to see his writings used for proving the opposite of what he believed. Paul even testified in court saying: “I admit that I worship the God of our fathers...” (Acts 24:14).

He also said that Jesus is the servant of that God, for we read in Acts: “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.” (Acts 3:13).

For Paul, the Father alone is God. Paul said that there is “one God and Father of all...” (Ephesians 4:6). Paul said again: “...for us there is but one God, the Father . . . and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ...” (1 Corinthians 8:6).

Paul’s letter to the Philippians (Philippians 2:6-11) is often quoted as a proof that Jesus is God. But the very passage shows that Jesus is not God. This passage has to agree with Isaiah 45:22-24 where God said that every knee should bow to God, and every tongue should confess that righteousness and strength are in God alone. Paul was aware of this passage, for he quoted it in Romans 14:11. Knowing this, Paul declared: “I kneel before the Father.” (Ephesians 3:14).

The letter to the Hebrews (Hebrews 1:6) says that the angels of God should worship the Son. But this passage depends on Deuteronomy 32:43, in the Septuagint version of the Old Testament. This phrase cannot be found in the Old Testament used by Christians today, and the Septuagint version is no longer considered valid by Christians. However, even the Septuagint version, does not say worship the Son. It says let the Angels of God worship God. The Bible insists that God alone is to be worshipped: “When the LORD made a covenant with the Israelites, he commanded them: ‘Do not worship any other gods or bow down to them, serve them or sacrifice to them. But the LORD, who brought you up out of Egypt with mighty power and outstretched arm, is the one you must worship. To him you shall bow down and to him offer sacrifices. You must always be careful to keep the decrees and ordinances, the laws and commands he wrote for you. Do not worship other gods. Do not forget the covenant I have made with you, and do not worship other gods. Rather, worship the LORD your God; it is he who will deliver you from the hand of all your enemies.’” (2 Kings 17:35-39).

Jesus, on whom be peace, believed in this, for he also stressed it in Luke 4:8. And Jesus too fell on his face and worshipped God (see Matthew 26:39). Paul knew that Jesus worshipped God (see Hebrews 5:7). Paul taught that Jesus will remain forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28).
6) Evidence from the Gospel of John:

The Gospel of John, the fourth Gospel, was completed to its present form some seventy years after Jesus was raised up to heaven. This Gospel in its final form says one more thing about Jesus that was unknown from the previous three Gospels — that Jesus was the Word of God. John means that Jesus was God’s agent through whom God created everything else. This is often misunderstood to mean that Jesus was God Himself. But John was saying, as Paul had already said, that Jesus was God’s first creature. In the Book of Revelation in the Bible, we find that Jesus is: “the beginning of God’s creation” (Revelation 3:14, also see 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Colossians 1:15).

Anyone who says that the Word of God is a person distinct from God must also admit that the Word was created, for the Word speaks in the Bible saying: “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works...” (Proverbs 8:22).

This Gospel, nevertheless, clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. If it did not continue this teaching, then it would contradict the other three Gospels and also the letters of Paul from which it is clearly established that Jesus is not God. We find here that Jesus was not co-equal with the Father, for Jesus said: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28).

People forget this and they say that Jesus is equal to the Father. Whom should we believe — Jesus or the people? Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent. This means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Yet John tells us that Jesus’ existence is caused by the Father. Jesus said in this Gospel: “...I live because of the Father...” (John 6:57).

John tells us that Jesus cannot do anything by his own when he quotes Jesus as saying: “By myself I can do nothing...” (John 5:30). This agrees with what we learn about Jesus from other Gospels. In Mark, for example, we learn that Jesus performed miracles by a power which was not within his control. This is especially clear from an episode in which a woman is healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and touched his cloak, and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him. Mark describes Jesus’ actions thus: “At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’” (Mark 5:30). His disciples could not provide a satisfactory answer, so Mark tells us: “Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it.” (Mark 5:32). This shows that the power that healed the woman was not within Jesus’ control. He knew that the power had gone out of him, but he did not know where it went. Some other intelligent being had to guide that power to the woman who needed to be healed. God was that intelligent being.

It is no wonder, then, that in Acts of the Apostles we read that it was God who did the miracles through Jesus (Acts 2:22).

God did extraordinary miracles through others too, but that does not make the others God (see Acts 19:11). Why, then, is Jesus taken for God? Even when Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead, he had to ask God to do it. Lazarus’ sister, Martha, knew this, for she said to Jesus: “I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.” (John 11:22).

Martha knew that Jesus was not God, and John who reported this with approval knew it also. Jesus had a God, for when he was about to ascend to heaven, he said: “I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” (John 20:17).

John was sure that no one had seen God, although he knew that many people had seen Jesus (see John 1:18 and 1 John 4:12). In fact Jesus himself told the crowds, that they have never seen the Father, nor have they heard the Father’s voice (John 5:37). Notice that if Jesus was the Father, his statement here would be false. Who is the only God in John’s Gospel? The Father alone.

Jesus testified this when he declared that the God of the Jews is the Father (John 8:54). Jesus too confirmed that the Father alone is the only true God (see John 17:1-3). And Jesus said to his enemies: “...you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” (John 8:40). According to John, therefore, Jesus was not God, and nothing John wrote should be taken as proof that he was God — unless one wishes to disagree with John.
7) God and Jesus Are Two Separate Beings:

Many people use certain verses of the Bible as proof that Jesus is God. However, all of these verses, when understood in context, prove the opposite!

For example, in Matthew 9:2, Jesus said to a certain man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” Because of this, some say that Jesus must be God since only God can forgive sins. However, if you are willing to read just a few verses further, you will find that the people “...praised God, who had given such authority to men.” (Matthew 9:. This shows that the people knew, and Matthew agrees, that Jesus is not the only man to receive such authority from God.

Jesus himself emphasized that he does not speak on his own authority (John 14:10) and he does nothing on his own authority, but he speaks only what the Father has taught him (John 8:28). What Jesus did here was as follows. Jesus announced to the man the knowledge Jesus received from God that God had forgiven the man.

Notice that Jesus did not say, “I forgive your sins,” but rather, “your sins are forgiven,” implying, as this would to his Jewish listeners, that God had forgiven the man. Jesus, then, did not have the power to forgive sins, and in that very episode he called himself “the Son of Man” (Matthew 9:6).

John 10:30 is often used as proof that Jesus is God because Jesus said, “I and the father are one.” But, if you read the next six verses, you will find Jesus explaining that his enemies were wrong to think that he was claiming to be God. What Jesus obviously means here is that he is one with the Father in purpose. Jesus also prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one. Obviously, he was not praying that all his disciples should somehow merge into one individual (see John 17:11 and 22). And when Luke reports that the disciples were all one, Luke does not mean that they became one single human being, but that they shared a common purpose although they were separate beings (see Acts 4:32). In terms of essence, Jesus and the Father are two, for Jesus said they are two witnesses (John 8:14-18). They have to be two, since one is greater than the other (see John 14:28). When Jesus prayed to be saved from the cross, he said: “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” (Luke 22:42).

This shows that they had two separate wills, although Jesus submitted his will to the will of the Father. Two wills mean two separate individuals.

Furthermore, Jesus is reported to have said: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46). If one of them forsook the other, then they must be two separate entities.

Again, Jesus is reported to have said: “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” (Luke 23:46). If the spirit of one can be placed into the hands of another, they must be two separate beings.

In all of these instances, Jesus is clearly subordinate to the Father. When Jesus knelt down and prayed he obviously was not praying to himself (see Luke 22:41). He was praying to his God.

Throughout the New Testament, the Father alone is called God. In fact, the titles “Father” and “God” are used to designate one individual, not three, and never Jesus. This is also clear from the fact that Matthew substituted the title “Father” in the place of the title “God” in at least two places in his Gospel (compare Matthew 10:29 with Luke 12:6, and Matthew 12:50 with Mark 3:35). If Matthew is right in doing so, then the Father alone is God.

Was Jesus the Father? No! Because Jesus said: “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.” (Matthew 23:9). So Jesus is not the Father, since Jesus was standing on the earth when he said this.

The Quran seeks to bring people back to the true faith that was taught by Jesus, and by his true disciples who continued in his teaching. That teaching emphasized a continued commitment to the first commandment that God is alone. In the Quran, God directs Muslims to call readers of the Bible back to that true faith. God have said in the Quran:

Say: “O people of the Book (Christians and Jews)! Come to a word that is just between us and you: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords beside God.” (Quran, 3:64)

tevinsolt: you can't be a christian if you don't understands God's nature, first of all you play deaf ears to the message of the forerunner of Christ, John......you fail to realize Jesus was both fully God and Fully Human and by being fully human, he was subjected to temptation, he prayed in order to communicate with God. him saying the father is greater than I doesn't make him less of the one and only God you are just using the same claims Muslims use. claiming to be lesser than my father doesn't make me less of a human if went to another solar system with a different kind of being to introduce myself.

Let me get you irked a lil........

Jesus was even created by his Father....I think that should end this discussion....if Jesus had a beginning then the trinity dogma ends............

I still can't understand why in the face of glaring scriptural facts you still argue that Jesus is Co-equal with his Father........

1.....Jesus is the image of GOD(and never vice versa)
2....Jesus is GOds Firstborn,,,,,(never can the Father be Jesus' firstborn)
3....Jesus is the beginning of the creation by GOD or of GOD....(Again this can't be apllied to the Father who never had a beginning)....
4....Jesus is Gods servant....(Can you beat that??I've never seen where a slave is equal to his OGA).....
______________________________

For you to say someone who is an image of GOD is also equal to GOD is utter denial of bible truths......

Jutresbien:

You base your believe not one what Jesus said, but on how the Jews UNDERSTOOD him? Isn't that risky? What if the jews misunderstood him(like they obviously did)?

Please don't stop at 33, read down to verse 36. Clearing up their MISUNDERSTANDING Jesus said,"do you say I blaspheme because I say to you I AM GOD'S SON?"

He can also follow what the Jews believe about Him and join them in the killing.

They don't want to believe whom the bible referred to as ONE GOD(THE FATHER) but what trinity referred to as one God(Father, Son and Holyspirit).

This is how obvious trinity contradict the will of the Father. Some of them will come here and say "i believe in trinity", "i have faith in it" without knowing anything about it but just what they were taught to believe.

If we should start from your definition of trinity to analyse it one step at a time without cherry picking of scriptures, i promise you that your belief in trinity will quench after few posts.

Jn 1vs1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and through him all things were made and the word was made flesh.
Christ is the word made flesh, the flesh is with God and the flesh is God. therefore Christ is God and the Spirit is God that comforts and edifies.

Oahray: Hehehehe.... Funny thread. Trinitarians, una funny sha. Its only Trinitarians that would say:
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(1) A person (Jesus) can be equal to his God (John 17:20).
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(2) The Father is greater than the Son (John 14:28), yet they are equal.
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(3) The Father gives the Son authority, and the Son subjects himself to God (1 Cor 15:27,28), yet they are equal.
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(4) The Father is the head of the Son (1 Cor 11:3), yet they are equal.
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(5) The Father's will dominates that of the son (Luke 22:42), yet they are equal.
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(6) The Father sent the Son (John 17:3), but they are equal.
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(7) The Son cannot speak of his own originality but what the father tells him (John 7:17; 14:10), yet they are equal.
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(8.) The Father gave the Son a revelation (Rev 1:1), yet they equal.
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(9) The Father resurrected the Son (2 Cor 4:14), yet they are equal.
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(10) The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative (John 5:19) but does what he beholds the Father doing, yet he is equal to the father anyway.
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(11) The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus is the one He sent (John 17:3), yet they are equal.
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(12) Jesus doesnt have the power to grant the sitting at his right or left, but his Father does (Matt 20:20-23), yet they are equal.
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(13) Blasphemy against the Son will be forgiven but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not be forgiven (Matt 12:31,32), yet they are the same.
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I don tire to cite instances sef... Its endless. The Bible quashes the pagan doctrine everywhere you go.
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When people who refuse to think, have no sensible answers to the questions posed to them from the gaping holes of that pagan doctrine, they would say God is a mystery. Yet Jesus said knowledge of God and (Jesus) himself would mean life (John 17:3).
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Trinitarians, I smh for una sha.

Good Job! this is all so staright forward and easy to understand. It baffles me how people chose to believe a mystery they cant explain.

magmegas: Jn 1vs1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and through him all things were made and the word was made flesh.
Christ is the word made flesh, the flesh is with God and the flesh is God. therefore Christ is God and the Spirit is God that comforts and edifies.

Read also vs 18.

He was with God, so he couldn't have been the same person he was with. So two persons are referenced here. Isaiah said Jesus would be called Mighty God. He is, however, not the Almighty God, who is superior to him. That's the crux of the issue.

John 1:1 does not show equality or that they are the same person. Other Bible verses clearly show that God is the head of the Christ. Jesus also clearly said the Father is greater than him.

If you agree that God the Father is above Jesus, then there's no argument. And you do not believe the Trinity. You need to check the definition of the Trinity by it's creators - Athanacean (sp?) creed they call it, I think.

magmegas: Jn 1vs1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and through him all things were made and the word was made flesh. . . . .

Amen; Three in One forever blessed.

magmegas: Jn 1vs1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and through him all things were made and the word was made flesh.
Christ is the word made flesh, the flesh is with God and the flesh is God. therefore Christ is God and the Spirit is God that comforts and edifies.

Try reading this http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1

People who want to understand the Bible don't pick one possible meaning of a verse and stick to it even if it contradicts the rest of the Bible.
Best to consider all related verses and gets the sense of it from there, instead of sticking to one possible meaning just so it tallies with already held belief, though it contradicts so many other verses.

Enigma:

Amen; Three in One forever blessed.

Hurray! Three in one bonanza............... One person get three head, one dey face front, one dey face left and one dey face right. Three in one......buy three for the price of one...... This offer lasts till 325 AD..........(Terms and conditions apply)

my broda i want to ask you if Christ and God are equal,
when He died that means God also died so,who raised God from dead?

Oahray: Quantity: God gives Jesus authority and elevates him. The Son subjects himself to his Father (1 Cor 15:27, 28). So the Father has more authority.
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Value: Jesus called his father the ONLY TRUE GOD (John 17:3)
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Rank: The head of the Christ is God (1 Cor 1:3)
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Degree: The Father is greater than I (Jesus) am (John 14:28)
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Ability: Jesus said the capacity to decide who sits at his right or left hand in the kingdom wasnt his but belongs to his Father (Matt 20:20-23).
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From the above definition of equality, they are not equal.
Got any other definition?

Excellent!!!

He will have to manufacture words to define equality.

@tevinsolt and trinitarians

What if one of the Pharisees had said that "he is equal to Jesus Christ just that Jesus can do some miracles he can't do but in terms of equality, he is equal to Christ."

Would you agree with him?

Ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
It may puzzle all of you that Melchizedek is the Ancient of Days.
You may choose to believe there is Trinity or Not but are you saved?
JESUS THE SAME YESTERDAY TODAY AND FOREVER(IMMUTABLE)
JESUS IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD.IT PLEASES THE FATHER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS IN AGREEMENT 1 JOHN 5:7

magmegas: Jn 1vs1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and through him all things were made and the word was made flesh.
Christ is the word made flesh, the flesh is with God and the flesh is God. therefore Christ is God and the Spirit is God that comforts and edifies.

It all happened in the beginning but God has no beginning. In that beginning the word WAS and the word was with His God.

That is why He is the beginning and the firstborn of God's creation. Col 1:18. God the Father is His God, Col 1:3, Eph 1:17, Heb 1:9.

Trinity opposes what the Holyspirit inspired.

Any question or do you disagree?