tbaba1234: Evidence 2a



Again, the relevant verses leave no doubt that the crucifixion of Jesus was only an illusion. Once again, an apocryphal writing of early Christianity totally refutes traditional Christian orthodoxy about the crucifixion event, and is consistent with the Qur'anic position on that issue.

Evidence 2e

Gospel of Barnabas

This is left as the last because it is controversial.

Sissie:

So you do see the logic, you have refused to see the good in Islam, atleast you can explain why, so even if we say from today till next year boko haram are not practicing Islam it makes no difference to you, or we tell you it's not about hate and murder, if it was you wouldn't be alive but because you have chosen not to see it, telling you otherwise will be fruitless.

How about the flaws in Christianity do you not see it too? Isn't this what you practice and believe? Have you really studied what you practice, its history, the origin of so many things Christians practice I.e Christmas. Or are you among the christians who say you can't use sense and logic to understand Christianity, you can't use carnal mind to understand the spiritual, that's what some Christians base arguments on?

m.k.o2005:

No one is saying or asking if Boko Harams are muslims or not ! They are muslims to the teeth ! They are only living the words in ur quran !We do not need apocryphal books or even the canonical books to puncture the statements in the quran,they are there for themselves and to be punctured by themselves.No further evidences is needed to do that at all.tbaba quoting books not in the bible and rejected long ago by Christ and early Christians to counter the crucifixion,authority and Sonship of our lord Jesus Christ is highly laughable !It's Just like the scientists putting up evidences that are not scriptural to counter the bible,claiming that there is no God and you expect me to start an argument with them ? We need biblical evidences that Jesus isn't the son of God and that HE was not crucified. Your quran lied by claiming Jesus isn't the son of God and that HE wasn't crucified ! Did that make me change from following Christ even as i have bein hearing that before i became a Christian ? Your mohamed and his gangs copied other apocryphal books and are leading you guys to the part of destruction today !Considering the fact that mohamed came 6 hundred yrs after Christ and tbaba from his findings just said that the apocryphal has been there since the second century or so,does that not tell you that mohamed copied from the apocryphal as stated by tbaba ? Check the meaning of apocryphal and revert convincing me the apocryphal is inspired by God ! Even mohamed told you that the bible (canonical books)is inspired by God !

God help us

tbaba1234: ^ Mr man, It was labeled 'apocryphal' by the orthodox churches when they started to develop their doctrine because it did not agree with their doctrine.

These books WERE used by segments of the early churches.. Please refer to the introduction of apocryphal

You should read more

m.k.o2005:

Incase you want to Know more concerning the apocryphal books,then i think you should consult the bible reagrding the canonical books !
For Christians who are here with us,let us go through the inspired books as against the uninspired apocryphal books i.e the quran as quoted by tbaba.

Canonical Books or inspired books :

The word “canon” comes from the rule of law that was used to determine if a book measured up to a standard. It is important to note that the writings of Scripture were canonical at the moment they were written. Scripture was Scripture when the pen touched the parchment. This is very important because Christianity does not start by defining God, or Jesus Christ, or salvation. The basis of Christianity is found in the authority of Scripture. If we cannot identify what Scripture is, then we cannot properly distinguish any theological truth from error.

What measure or standard was used to determine which books should be classified as Scripture? A key verse to understanding the process and purpose, and perhaps the timing of the giving of Scripture, is Jude 3 which states that a Christian's faith “was once for all entrusted to the saints.” Since our faith is defined by Scripture, Jude is essentially saying that Scripture was given once for the benefit of all Christians. Isn't it wonderful to know that there are no hidden or lost manuscripts yet to be found, there are no secret books only familiar to a select few, and there are no people alive who have special revelation requiring us to trek up a Himalayan mountain in order to be enlightened? We can be confident that God has not left us without a witness. The same supernatural power God used to produce His Word has also been used to preserve it.

Psalm 119:160 states that the entirety of God's Word is truth. Starting with that premise, we can compare writings outside the accepted canon of Scripture to see if they meet the test. As an example, the Bible claims that Jesus Christ has the NATURE of GOD (Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 1:22-23; John 1:1, 2, 14, 20:28; Acts 16:31, 34; Philippians 2:5-6; Colossians 2:9; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1). Yet many extra-biblical texts,(apocryphal including the quran) claiming to be Scripture, argue that Jesus is not God. When clear contradictions exist, the established Bible is to be trusted, leaving the others outside the sphere of Scripture for the followers to continue in their ignorance.
In the early centuries of the church, Christians were sometimes put to death for possessing copies of Scripture. Because of this persecution, the question soon came up, “What books are worth dying for?” Some books may have contained sayings of Jesus, but were they inspired as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16? Church councils played a role in publicly recognizing the canon of Scripture, but often an individual church or groups of churches recognized a book as inspired from its writing (e.g., Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Throughout the early centuries of the church, few books were ever disputed and the list was basically settled by A.D. 303.Hope you tbaba can see that the issue was settled long ago !
tbaba said the books were used by segments of the early churches ! See below what actually happened expecially with the OT :
Most questions about which books belong in the Bible dealt with writings from the time of Christ and forward. T[b]he early church had some very specific criteria[/b] in order for books to be considered as part of the New Testament. These included: Was the book written by someone who was an eyewitness of Jesus Christ? Did the book pass the “truth test”? (i.e., did it concur with other, already agreed-upon Scripture?). The New Testament books they accepted back then have endured the test of time and Christian orthodoxy has embraced these, with no challenge, for centuries.

Confidence in the acceptance of specific books dates back to the first century recipients who offered firsthand testimony as to their authenticity.
There is an important theological point that should not be missed. God has used His word for millennia for one primary purpose—to reveal Himself and communicate to mankind. Ultimately, the church councils did not decide if a book was Scripture; [b]that was decided when the human author was chosen by God to write[/b]and God don't choose people to write things that will contradict HIM ! In order to accomplish the end result, including the preservation of His Word through the centuries, God guided the early church councils in their recognition of the canon and not the apocryphal like the quran and the rest of them quoted by tbaba !

The acquisition of knowledge regarding such things as the true nature of God, the origin of the universe and life, the purpose and meaning of life, the wonders of salvation, and future events (including the destiny of mankind) are beyond the natural observational and scientific capacity of mankind. The already-delivered Word of God, valued and personally applied by Christians for centuries, is sufficient to explain to us everything we need to know of Christ (John 5:18; Acts 18:28; Galatians 3:22; 2 Timothy 3:15) and to teach us, correct us, and instruct us into all righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16) and not to rely on the evidences of uninspired apocryphal books bein followed or used by tbaba and other muslims !
The bible is the only book with the authority to use as evidences and not the apocryphal quran

God help us!

tbaba1234: ^ Mr man, It was labeled 'apocryphal' by the orthodox churches when they started to develop their doctrine because it did not agree with their doctrine.

These books WERE used by segments of the early churches.. Please refer to the introduction of apocryphal

You should read more

Rexyl:

THOSE HELPING SATAN TO TURN PEOPLE‘S BACK AGAINST THE PLAN OF GOD AND HIS WORD SHOULD BY NOW KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They cannot change God‘s position by volumes of erroneous beliefs.

Mintayo:

@tbaba...u v lost my respect a long time ago when i discover that u r a liar,not that i am surprised bcus ur islam supports lies as long as it propagate it!
Now let me ask u,v u seen d gospel of barnaba before? Do u knw d writer!
DO U KNW THERE ARE NO ANCIENT EVIDENCE FOR THIS UR GOSPEL?
Owk,let me tell,though mko has answerd u well,bt there is no difference btw d gospel of barnabas and ur quran!
D gospel of barnabas called barnabas one of d disciples of Jesus,tht is nt true.
Let me show u d similarity btw d dt barnabas gospel n quran.
1. It says Jesus is not d son of God...chapter 70
2. It says Jesus predicts d coming of anoda prophet...mohammed.
3. It says Jesus denied himself as d messiah bt called mohammed messiah...chapter 97.(BUT WAIT,DID UR qURAN CALL MOHAMMED D MESSIAH??
4. It says Jesus did not die,crucified or ressurected...but Judas took his place...(does dt sound familiar?)

no wonder u muslims promote dis book bcus it was written to conform with d quran!
I am sure u v heard of d ahmad shafaat who wrote the 'gospel of islam',ther is no difference btw the two,they both twist biblical gospel to conform with d quran!
Its actually a waste of time answering u in ur desperation to condemn d Bible,bt no matter how much u try and LIE,it wnt work...YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!
Stop this mischief and accept Jesus into ur life!

http://answering-islam.org/green/barnabas.htm.

tbaba1234: Conclusion


But there is even greater shock coming from the canonical scripture. Have to take a break now!

Stay tuned!!

m.k.o2005:

No one is saying or asking if Boko Harams are muslims or not ! They are muslims to the teeth ! They are only living the words in ur quran !

We do not need apocryphal books or even the canonical books to puncture the statements in the quran,they are there for themselves and to be punctured by themselves.No further evidences is needed to do that at all.tbaba quoting books not in the bible and rejected long ago by Christ and early Christians to counter the crucifixion,authority and Sonship of our lord Jesus Christ is highly laughable !It's Just like the scientists putting up evidences that are not scriptural to counter the bible,claiming that there is no God and you expect me to start an argument with them ?

We need biblical evidences that Jesus isn't the son of God and that HE was not crucified.Your quran lied by claiming Jesus isn't the son of God and that HE wasn't crucified ! Did that make me change from following Christ even as i have bein hearing that before i became a Christian ?

Your mohamed and his gangs copied other apocryphal books and are leading you guys to the part of destruction today !Considering the fact that mohamed came 6 hundred yrs after Christ and tbaba from his findings just said that the apocryphal has been there since the second century or so,does that not tell you that mohamed copied from the apocryphal as stated by tbaba ? Check the meaning of apocryphal and revert convincing me the apocryphal is inspired by God ! Even mohamed told you that the bible (canonical books)is inspired by God !


God help us

lanrexlan: Boko Harams are just ignorant as you are.They aren't following Islam,killing innocent souls is forbidden in Islam.Who are the crusaders following? The biblical god footsteps I guess.

1 Samuel 6:19 (KJV) -And he smote the men of Bethshemesh,because they had looked into the ark of the LORD,even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men:and the people lamented,because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
@Bold,was Christ alive when those apocryphal were written?
Psalm 2:7 (KJV)-I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,Thou art my Son;this day have I begotten thee.[At the age of 40]

Exodus 4:22 (NIV)- Then say to Pharaoh, This is what the LORD says:Israel is my firstborn son.

Genesis 6:2 (NIV) -the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Jeremiah 31:9 (NIV)- ......because I am Israel's father,and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

.
The theological Dictionary of the new statement states: I have begotten thee is probably no more than a stereotyped formular.[Kittel. G Theological Dictionary of the New Testament,op cit. Pg 668].
Sonship and fatherhood in the bible means the relationship between the servants and the Creator.

Did 'Jesus' fulfilled the sign of Jonah? Was Jonah dead or alive in the belly of the fish For 3days and 3nights?[Matthew 12:40]

They now copied the apocryphal and not the canonical books of the bible again? Confusion,@Bold,do you have proofs for it?.....Peace

m.k.o200:

THE QURAN COPIED BOTH THE APOCRYPHAL AND MIXED IT UP THE FEW CANONICAL BOOKS !

God help us

Mintayo:

i was actually shocked to c d similarities btw all those books tbaba mentioned and d quran when i researched abt some of dem...and yet he wants us to believ dem...smh!
The more they talk the more they r showing to us that we do not serve d Same God,mba!
No matter how much u explain'd begotten Son' to lanre,it will only take God for him to believe...so many of us have done that to him in so many threads!
The spirit(s) behind islam 'gidi gan',it will only take the Spirit of Jesus to cast (them) out!
May d Lord reveal Himself to them!

m.k.o2005:
Your own issue be say you don master how to google the old testament letters and you love to quote them at will

It will be another long write up by me to educate you on how God in the OT dealt with unbelievers like mohamad and his followers;people like you. 'HE killed them',actually punished them for their disobedience ! We weren't around then and weren't Christians either! But i tell you,if you want to Know if i can kill or hate or bomb either as a suicide bomber or mosque bomber,look at the life of Jesus and HIS teachings.

I am not a Judaist. God translated me from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light and that is how i'm called a christian ! We are telling you that becos of the grace of God bein made available to us through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross of Calvary,God will not kill any defiant this day ! HE will not kill you muslims for disobeying HIS word becos of HIS son Jesus !

God killed most of you muslims in the past who worshiped idol claiming it's God you worship just becos of the grace of God through HIS son Jesus wasn't around then! But HE isn't doing that anymore. YOU KNOW WHY ? JESUS'blood ! HE is waiting for you to repent !

m.k.o2005:
Concerning the Israel nation and Ephraim as a tribe bein the son of God and we M.K.O,Mintayo,rexsl,Frosbel and other Christians are adopted into the sonship of God ! Israel as a nation is the first son 'amongs nations'becos God chose Israel first before other nations.

Then for Ephraim who is the first son of God amongs the tribes in Israel ! The sons of God you saw picking up wives among the sons of men that got God angry,were the chosen sons of seth intermarrying with the cursed daughters of men;Cain(this one will be too big for u.Later we will discuss this one)

We who were gentiles,were adopted into this sonship for accepting Christ ! Now all of us are sons but see below the case with the first son of God,the ONLY BEGOTTEN OF GOD:HE IS THE FIRST AMONGS ALL THE SONS !

Consider,though,the significance of this revelation that Jesus Christ is the Father's "only begotten" Son.This unique phrase is used with reference to the Lord Jesus many other times,and all the five verses below contain vitally important truths concerning Christ.

These verses are as follows: "And the Word was made flesh,and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).This is the key verse of the Incarnation,assuring us that the man Jesus, who dwelt among us for a time,was also the eternal Word who was in the beginning with God" and that He was God" and that "all things were made by Him" (John 1:1-3). He was God the Creator manifest in the flesh. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him" (John 1:18).

The Father is omnipresent, and therefore invisible to mortal eyes,but as Jesus said: " He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9). Men have seen and heard the Father in the person of His only begotten Son.Whenever God has been seen by men,it has been through the Son who has revealed Him.

" For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). This verse, of course, is the most magnificent of all gospel verses; many would call it the greatest verse in the Bible. It assures us that, if we simply put our trust in Jesus who has become man in order to die for our sins, and then to defeat death and become our Savior,our sins will be forgiven, and we shall live forever with Him. "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).

Other than the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,"there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). In view of all that our Savior has done for us, this verse gives clear warning that t[b]hose who refuse or neglect to believe on the person and work of God's only begotten Son, will die in their sins, condemned forever by the Father whose Son they have spurned.[/b] " God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him" (I John 4:9).

You see that you lanrexlan,tbaba,mclatunji and the rest can be adopted as sons too ! It's unfortunate ur mahamad died with accepting Chrsit as his savior !Don't make same mistake please !

THE QURAN COPIED BOTH THE APOCRYPHAL AND MIXED IT UP THE FEW CANONICAL BOOKS ! God help us

tbaba1234: Lol, lots of ranting but zero facts... Imagine someone even copying from an anti-Islam website.

I was very fair in my assessment of everything, this is what i wrote on the gospel of barnabas:

This is left as the last because it is controversial. There is evidence of a gospel of barnabas in early Christendom but there is no guarantee that what we have today as the gospel of barnabas is the same one. It remains an open question as to whether or not the book that is presently identified as being the Gospel of Barnabas is the same Gospel of Barnabas identified in the Decree of Gelasius. (A) Schneemelcher W: General Introduction. In Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W, Wilson RM (1963). B) Platt RH, Brett JA.)

Mintayo, There are obvious historical records of it, in the Decree of Gelsius, so there was a gospel of barnabas, I gave quite a number of references to attest to it. I guess you should google it, instead of calling me a liar.

I clearly stated that why we have may or may not be the one.

I think that is a balanced view.

All I see here, is lots of ranting with little substance.

Historically, I have shown sufficiently, that the early christians were divided on the issue. If early Christians were so sharply divided on this issue, then it raises a serious problem for the christian today.

Instead , some people are missing the point.

The early christian churches chose those books as their scripture because they were convinced it was the words of God.

They had their reasons, too. They must have been convincing to them.

As regards the Quran, I would encourage you to first read it in translation first, and not visit anti-islam sites for your information.

lanrexlan: Not that he chose Israel,he knew only Israel amongst all nations in the world.
Amos 3:1-2 (KJV) -Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you,O children of Israel,against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt,saying You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities..
Lolz,engage me please.
David is also a begotten son of God[Psalms 2:7].
Romans 8:14- For as many(not only gentiles)led by the spirit of God,they are sons of God.

Jesus rejected being good

Which father is invisible?Amos 9:1 (NIV) -I saw the Lord standing by the altar.
Exodus 33:11 (NIV) -The LORD would speak to Moses face to face,as a man speaks with his friend.Then Moses would return to the camp,but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.
Exodus 24:9-11 (NIV) -Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu,and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire,clear as the sky itself.But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites;they saw God,and they ate and drank.
The word only begotten has been thrown out of the Revised Standard Version of the bible,revised by Dr. C I Scofield and other 32 christian scholars of the highest eminence.They said it has no basis in the greek manuscript.
John 3:16 (RSV) -For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

I would rather be a slave like Jesus prostrating myself in prayers[Matthew 26:39,Matthew 14:23].
Lolz,so all those grave errors and unscientific proofs in the bible was avoided in the Quran right?
Surah Yunus 10:38- Or do they said He has fabricated it? Say:Bring then a chapter like it and call upon whomsoever you can besides Allah if you are truthfull.....Peace

Rexyl: @Lanrexian.

YOU HAVE JUST SHOWN THE WORLD THAT YOUR BELIEF IS EXCLUSIVELY MAN MADE.Nothing Spiritual in it. May you serve God in His only true way - Gospel of Jesus Christ.

lanrexlan: Lanrexlan please.
What makes it man-made? I believe and worship the one and only true God,who begets not nor was he begotten,there's none comparable to him,the Creator of the heavens and earth who never slumbers nor rest,never drinks blood nor eat flesh.Is this man-made belief?

m.k.o2005:
We have dwelt long on this mountain and God desires that we move forward !
For front page things,lets consider ur prophet a little just to balance this discussion. MOds please take this to the fron page if not,i will personal go and invite all to this section(religion) !

Jesus is mentioned 97 times in the quran -Why ?
And several hundreds of times in the bible !-Amazing

mohammed is mentioned only 25 times in the quran ! Reason should be becos the god a.llah is what the people needs !
mohammed was NOT mentioned even a single time in the bible yet you guys claim the Almighty God knows a,llah or ur quran !

The reason for this comparison,hoped to commence on the front page is to see how the mere man mohamad is greater than the Son of the Most High God the creator of the heavens and earth !
Sorry we have to go this way becos you guys have failled to provide me authentic evidence(s)disputing the sonship of Jesus Christ !

God help us