Please read all the evidences first, I shouldn't be repeating my self.

Please provide evidence not what you are tolf in Sunday school.

tbaba1234: MKO 2005.

The focus of the write-up is about the ministry of Jesus, focus on the points. When I write about the trinity then we can talk.

Most of the evidence used are from bible scholars and biblical history.

Fact is, Jesus focus was on the children of Israel and the ministry was limited.

Unfortunately, most chtistians do not know beyond bible school knowledge.

In case you never see am,i dey repeat am again for here:
God saw the gentile nations before choosing the Jews as HIS own !
He saw every one before Choosing Abraham !
He saw the Egyptians or the saudi arabians before choosing Israel !
The prophesy has always been that the world would be saved through some one(a Jew)who will be rejected by HIS own people! So Christ came to save the world but first the Jews before the rest of the gentile nations.He played the script of God very very well!
See below his instructions to HIS disciples:

''And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”Mathew 28:18-20
Jesus was the fulfillment of the promises of the Old Testament, given primarily to Jews !
God through history had focused His message through the Jews.Littel wonder HIS son JESUS Christ followed same wey for it is written!
The Jews were the ones knowledgeable in the Old Testament and what God had done to prepare for Jesus, so they would be the best ones to take His message out to the world and NOT the Egyptians !
God was preparing to bring His message to all mankind (Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.) but God needed to first establish a foundation. The focus on Jews by Christ was to build a stable foundation before it was taken to the Gentiles.
Notice this foundation was really the 12 apostles. Jesus preaching really was focused on the 12 apostles and not the entire Jewish nations !
To summarize, God worked through the nation of Israel, and this was the foundation for His church. Jesus' purpose, in addition to dying for sins, was to establish His church through His apostles. After His death [b]they freely took His message to all nations and peoples (as seen in Acts 2).But Jesus made it clear that, even though His focus during his ministry were Jews, Gentiles were also welcome and fully accepted with Him in heaven.
See below what Christ said as he commanded HIS disciples:
Acts 1:8 — ''but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

Gentiles
1-without Christ,
2-being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
3-and strangers from the covenants of promise,
4-having no hope,
5-and without God in the world:
Jews/Israel
1-Christ came first to Israel
2-Israel the chosen nation
3-God made the covenants with the fathers of Israel
4-Israel had the hope of the resurrection
5-It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
I think from the above,tbaba will see why it has to be that Christ preached to the Jews and instructed HIS disciples to go into the world,infact the remotest part of the earth and proclaim the gospel !
See below reasons i bask in the euphoria of Christ bein my saviour !
Galatians 3:29 — And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
Romans 10:12 — For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same {Lord} is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

God help us

tbaba1234: Next up: Was Jesus crucified?

Many christians will be shocked at the sheer volume of evidence from history, canonical and apocryphal gospels that raise serious doubts about this

Stay tuned, will start in a few hours.

You never fit defend the one at hand you dey start another one(lol) !-How many times are we going to dwell on Crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ?Even the old testament that mohamad and him coleagues copy give u as quran carry am say Jesus go die and him go resurrect after 3 days ! Abi quran no copy that one join ?
With time you go see the light becos i no wish you death in this religion wey u dey practice. I pray God rescues you like he DID TO SOME OF US !

God help us

^ please review evidence 1.

The verse you quote has serious problems.

Again, you are giving me you bible school interpretation.

The evidence clearly shows the disciples flat out disobeyed it.

Acts 15:1-5; 21:17-26; Galatians 2:1-9. Remember that the book ofActs. was written by the Pauline tradition and school, and thus presents a very biased report ofthe conflict between Paul and the early "church" at Jerusalem. For example, Acts 21: 17-26 purports to show that the Jerusalem "church" backed Paul. However, the fact of the matter was, as recorded in that very passage, that the elders ofthe Jerusalem "church" made Paul undergo the temporary rites of being a Nazarite, indicating that he was made to purify himself and to pay penance for what he had been doing.

Debunk the evidence one by one then we know, you have done something.

I am actually typing from my phone so when I get to a computer, we will see that you have made no point.

tbaba1234: Please provide evidence not what you are tolf in Sunday school.

Evidence of what ?
The holy bible is all i need for evidence of the God i serve ! Any evidence i give outside the holy bible please do not accept it from me !

God help us

tbaba1234: Please read all the evidences first, I shouldn't be repeating my self.

half-baked knowledge and little understanding is serious problem o. See your understanding and those historians on whom you are backed of unfolding events in the book of Act 9 verse 25-26 you cited was totally wrong. Do you know Saul was one of the greatest enemies of the first church and prosecutor of disciples of Jesus Christ. Do you know he was arrested by the power of God while on deadly mission against the gospel and he was blinded. At that crucial moment he needed deliverance and healing which he was directed to obtain thru the disciples. His first showing, bearing withness for Christ was a big surprise that made other disciples afraid cos they were not yet totally convinced of his conversion. After they were convinced he was welcomed to be an Apostle of the gospel of Christ. As it pleased God He suffered most and made the greatest exploit in the course of gospel.

^Most of the evidence are from biblical scholars those with masters in divinity from some of the best schools in the world. I even provided some references.

If anyone has half baked knowledge, I am afraid, it is you my friend. How much of christian history have you actually read?

No one has even given any good rebuttal here.. Anyway, when I get on a computer, your few points will be addressed with even more damning evidence.

tbaba1234: ^Most of the evidence are from biblical scholars those with masters in divinity from some of the best schools in the world. I even provided some references.

If anyone has half baked knowledge, I am afraid, it is you my friend. How much of christian history have you actually read?

No one has even given any good rebuttal here.. Anyway, when I get on a computer, your few points will be addressed with even more damning evidence.

the only damning evidence we need to see about ISLAM is on the streets of Egypt right now, in Syria, in India, in Iraq, in Northern Nigeria - Non-stop 24/7 blood shed from the so called religion of peace, what a joke.

Keep your god to yourself , we do not want him.

tbaba1234: ^Most of the evidence are from biblical scholars those with masters in divinity from some of the best schools in the world. I even provided some references.

If anyone has half baked knowledge, I am afraid, it is you my friend. How much of christian history have you actually read?

No one has even given any good rebuttal here.. Anyway, when I get on a computer, your few points will be addressed with even more damning evidence.

you are just trying to avoid the truth and queue behind historians your lord(s). should it be what the Bible says or what historians say. It would just be like supporting evolution and sweating for facts as against wonders of the creation.

frosbel:

the only damning evidence we need to see about ISLAM is on the streets of Egypt right now, in Syria, in India, in Iraq, in Northern Nigeria - Non-stop 24/7 blood shed from the so called religion of peace, what a joke.

Keep your god to yourself , we do not want him.

See frosbel,no one is saying the muslim god is same as the Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth who's son is Jesus ! The fact has already been established that the muslim religion/.alah is not same as the God of the Christians but i don't know why dey always want to claim that we serve same God !
The question that was asked was if the Christian God and the muslim god is same ? Christians say NO !
But the muslims keep beating about the bush telling yes/no,but you know,you see and if to say no be this one that one...blablablable !
Abeg i don tire !

God help us

m.k.o2005:

See frosbel,no one is saying the muslim god is same as the Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth who's son is Jesus ! The fact has already been established that the muslim religion/.alah is not same as the God of the Christians but i don't know why dey always want to claim that we serve same God !
The question that was asked was if the Christian God and the muslim god is same ? Christians say NO !
But the muslims keep beating about the bush telling yes/no,but you know,you see and if to say no be this one that one...blablablable !
Abeg i don tire !

God help us

they can't really decide!
They knw that we r nt serving d same God,but they dare not say it, because their claim thatmohammed is in d Bible will be made FALSe(which is anyways).
A test=
1. can muslim pray using 'Elohim','Elshadai' instead of allah...
2. Let dem go to mosque and instead of facing kaba to pray,let them raise their head to heave with open hands and pray d christain God way(am sure such muslim will nt come back to tell d tale).
Do we v 'Elshadai,Elohim,Elloi in The 99 names of allah?
You ppl hold on to ur god...bt I will advice...that u accept Jesus as ur Lord and Saviour now that u all v d chance!

lanrexlan: Ameen,thumma ameen and you too my brother.May Allah always guide your ways.

ameen

Rexyl:

You are on board. You are just starting reading the BIBLE but you have a long way to go cos HOLY SPIRIT has not been invited to interpret things that are obscure to you. You should know reason we are human beings to add and weigh things in order to locate the centre of balancing. At such location all burdens are properly tackled: be it physical, spiritual and mental. The Bible reveals that knowledge is for the rise and falling it is when truth is discovered that there will be confidence and stability. Read YOUR Bible all thru you will know it lays emphasis on certain things: the way to God and His salvation.

....This is my problem with you guys. You always have to fill in the blanks with holy spirit. I created a thread about holy spirit seeking for answers in www.nairaland.com/1394224/holy-ghost-holy-spirit#17427340 and none of you who claim to be filled with holy spirit has responded to it. My brothers are already doing justice to this topic already. I pray may Allah reward you all beyond your imagining. Tbaba, lanrexlan and others, tnx for ur jihad

udatso: ....This is my problem with you guys. You always have to fill in the blanks with holy spirit. I created a thread about holy spirit seeking for answers in www.nairaland.com/1394224/holy-ghost-holy-spirit#17427340 and none of you who claim to be filled with holy spirit has responded to it. My brothers are already doing justice to this topic already. I pray may Allah reward you all beyond your imagining. Tbaba, lanrexlan and others, tnx for ur jihad

Pls what Justine? When he has missed it all!
I pray I have the time to explode that topic you open where you will begin to invite Holy Spirit into yur life!

udatso: ....This is my problem with you guys. You always have to fill in the blanks with holy spirit. I created a thread about holy spirit seeking for answers in www.nairaland.com/1394224/holy-ghost-holy-spirit#17427340 and none of you who claim to be filled with holy spirit has responded to it. My brothers are already doing justice to this topic already. I pray may Allah reward you all beyond your imagining. Tbaba, lanrexlan and others, tnx for ur jihad

The reason you don't get answers is becos you guys keep talking 'comparative religion' ! Do ur comparative religion with ur fellow religious people like the bhudists,shintoists,judaists and you can even add agnostics and atheists ! As for Chrsitianity,it is not a religion but a relationship with Christ ! We call God father and you guys say no HE can not be father to mere men but master and we say we have got a relationship with HIM as our 'Abbah' ! So,continue with ur god and let us be with our Father who sent forth HIS son into the world to cleanse us from our iniquities-shekena ! You creating a tread about holy spirit ? What do you know about HIM ? SHEBI NA UNA SAY THE HOLY SPIRIT WEY JESUS PROMISE US NA HIM BE mohamed ? Jesus is watching you guys as him no sabi mention human being name again abi ? The only thing HE told us that will come after HIS departure is false prophets of different categories;there are the ones that will come in HIS name,the one that will come with lying wonders,the one that will come rejecting HIM out rightly,the one that will come like an angel of light and the one that will come saying HE is this but not that ! We are already aware of these things becos HE told us before leaving ! Little wonder why many of us dnt agree with all the men today who claim they are from God ! Ask frosbel he will tell you that fake prophets are bound ! So dnt mind us when you see us disagree on certain things as Christians o. We only trying to test the spirit that wrought s the miracle !

God help us

m.k.o2005:

See frosbel,no one is saying the muslim god is same as the Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth who's son is Jesus ! The fact has already been established that the muslim religion/.alah is not same as the God of the Christians but i don't know why dey always want to claim that we serve same God !

Exodus 31:17 (NIV)- It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth,and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.

Exodus 31:17 (KJV) -It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.

The Creator resting and was refreshed[With Viju milk or what?]Is this not human attribute? Does this befits the Creator? SubhanAllah.
Compare to Allah's statement in Surah Qaf 50:38- And indeed We created the heavens and earth and all between them in six days and nothing of fatigue touched us

The question that was asked was if the Christian God and the muslim god is same ? Christians say NO !
But the muslims keep beating about the bush telling yes/no,but you know,you see and if to say no be this one that one...blablablable !
Abeg i don tire !

God help us

Surah Al-Imran 3:64- Say:O people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)! Come to a word that is just between us and you,that we worship none but Allah(Alone) and that we associate partners with Him and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah.Then if they turn away,say:Bear witness that we are muslims.
Salam alaikum.....Peace

m.k.o2005:

In case you never see am,i dey repeat am again for here:
God saw the gentile nations before choosing the Jews as HIS own !
He saw every one before Choosing Abraham !
He saw the Egyptians or the saudi arabians before choosing Israel !
The prophesy has always been that the world would be saved through some one(a Jew)who will be rejected by HIS own people! So Christ came to save the world but first the Jews before the rest of the gentile nations.He played the script of God very very well!
See below his instructions to HIS disciples:

The Quran does talk about the Jews been favoured but it also talks about the abuses of that privilege. Actually, review of some of these so called 'prophesies' would reveal. Abraham was not a Jew, the prophet Job was not a Jew. The prophets in Islamic theology were sent to the centers of all nations, not just the children of Israel even though they got the largest dose because of God's favour. We know the prophets were certainly sent to other nations.

i. A blatant misinterpretation losing the total context of the verse. This is one of the things we will look at in this series. Stay tuned.

ii. A one size fits all interpretation that can apply to a host of people.

Be patient we will deal with all the differences of opinions between christians and muslims.

''And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”Mathew 28:18-20
Jesus was the fulfillment of the promises of the Old Testament, given primarily to Jews !

The serious and damning faults in this verse has already been examined in Evidence 1. Kindly refer to that.

Through this series, i would also provide evidence of obvious manipulation of 'so called' prophesies. Be patient and read through.

God through history had focused His message through the Jews.Littel wonder HIS son JESUS Christ followed same wey for it is written!
The Jews were the ones knowledgeable in the Old Testament and what God had done to prepare for Jesus, so they would be the best ones to take His message out to the world and NOT the Egyptians !
God was preparing to bring His message to all mankind (Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.) but God needed to first establish a foundation. The focus on Jews by Christ was to build a stable foundation before it was taken to the Gentiles.

Incorrect, prophets were sent to other nations. Abraham, Lot, Job etc were not Jews.

The evidence shows that the disciples were very hesitant in going to preach this 'word' to gentiles such that the got into fights with Paul.

Why don't you prove the evidence as incorrect, first?

God was preparing to bring His message to all mankind (Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.) but God needed to first establish a foundation. The focus on Jews by Christ was to build a stable foundation before it was taken to the Gentiles.

The very serious defects in that verse are examined in Evidence 2, Kindly refer to that


Please address the flaws first.

Notice this foundation was really the 12 apostles. Jesus preaching really was focused on the 12 apostles and not the entire Jewish nations !
To summarize, God worked through the nation of Israel, and this was the foundation for His church. Jesus' purpose, in addition to dying for sins, was to establish His church through His apostles. After His death [b]they freely took His message to all nations and peoples (as seen in Acts 2).But Jesus made it clear that, even though His focus during his ministry were Jews, Gentiles were also welcome and fully accepted with Him in heaven.
See below what Christ said as he commanded HIS disciples:

Is it that you do not read the bible?? Jesus preached to pharisees, he preached on the mount of olives, he taught in the synagogue... He clearly stated that he was for the lost sheep of Israel not 12 disciples.

Again, evidence already shows that many of the disciples were hesitant to go to the gentiles, even years after the so called passover.

Again the verse has been debunked, refer to evidence 2 and 3

Read evidence 4 again:

Luke 24:50 indicates that the ascension of Jesus was on Easter Sunday, which would indicate that Jesus was not present to have made the speeches recorded in Matthew 28:16-20 (the first example above) and Acts 1:7-8 (the third example above) both of which were previously quoted verbatim. However, as the author of Luke is held to have also been the author of Acts, one is immediately struck by a major discrepancy and inconsistency. In Luke, the ascension is said to have been on Easter Sunday." However, in Acts, the very same writer maintains that the ascension was 40 days after Easter Sunday Acts 1:3. 53. Thus , if the Lukan narrative were accepted, the passages from Matthew and from Acts must be considered baseless and faulty. However, if the passages from Matthew and Acts were accepted, the Lukan narrative would have to be rejected.


The verses are contradictory and problematic indicating that some of these quotes are made up.

I just read through your write-up and i must confess that i am thoroughly disappointed.

You did not read any of the evidences brought forth and you kept repeating verses that have serious inherent flaws already proven.

Your target should be to debunk the flaws with scholarly evidence first before attempting to use it as evidence. It does not fly.

tbaba1234: I just read through your write-up and i must confess that i am thoroughly disappointed.

You did not read any of the evidences brought forth and you kept repeating verses that have serious inherent flaws already proven.

Your target should be to debunk the flaws with scholarly evidence first before attempting to use it as evidence. It does not fly.

You also noticed that,I expected him to debunk the flaws you presented one by one and clear it up.

the christian worship the son of mary And the muslim Worship the creator of mary and her son(jesus).which do you prefer to worship, the creator(ALLAH) or his creation.make ur choice.

what a thread. staying tuned!

Always gbadun all dis muslim guz,dey always talk wit proof and made dere point visible and simple.all praise to u all...

I repeat , you can preach that your religion is the only true faith , but that's insignificant because talk is cheap and action speaks louder than words.

God is kind, merciful , loves ALL mankind not just the Arabs or Jews , is patient, hates murder and hate etc , if your religion does not bear any of this fruit, it cannot be of GOD , no matter how much logic you introduce to depict it as such.

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah"-but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not-nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is exalted in power, wise- Qur'an 4:157-158

Was Jesus Crucified or was it just an appearance

There are very few things that divide muslim and christian views like the crucifixion of Jesus and the doctrine of trinity. In the case of the trinity, the average christian does not even know how to make sense of it. However, in the case of the crucifixion, the christian is absolutely sure that there can be no doubt about this historical event.

Besides the books of of the new testament, which were authored in the second half of the first century and the first half of the second century, There are only two near-contemporary mention of the crucifixion of this event.

A brief mention in the works of Josephus bin Mathias authored in the second half of the first century:

At this time there was a wise man called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous... Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive. Accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have reported wonders.(Josephus F (1988). Pages 264-265.)

Also the Roman historian, Tacitus, who lived from around 55 to 115 CEo, briefly stated this:

Christus...had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate... (Tacitus: Annals. In Pagels E (1979). Page 70.)

The Qur'an explicitly states that "they killed him not, nor crucified him". However, the Qur'an does not say that there was no crucifixion. Rather, the Qur'an states that it was not Jesus Christ who was crucified, even though it was made to appear that he was.

The fact remains that there are quite a number of evidences from christian literature and history to accept the Quranic state that it was not Jesus(peace be upon him) that was crucified.

The evidence will show the early Christians were quite confused and uncertain about what actually happened during the crucifixion event.

Evidence 1

The Apostolic Fathers

The apostolic fathers were the who is who in the early christian churches,

In the quotes of the apostolic fathers, we find out that there were christian sects in the first century which taught that the "passion" or suffering of Jesus on the cross was untrue and/or illusory. Ofcourse, these sects were labelled as 'heretical' because they did not agree with the dogma promoted by these apostolic fathers. References are found in the writings of Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Hippolytus (All apostolic fathers).

In one very interesting quote, we see Ignatius, the bishop of Antioch(died 110CE) writing in the first part of the second century:

But if, as some say.. .his suffering was only an appearance, then why am I a prisoner, and why do I long to fight with the wild beasts? In that case, I am dying in vain.(Ignatius: Trallians 10:1. In Pagels E (1979). Page 83.)

Ignatius was jailed by the romans in 107/108CE. In Prison, he wrote a series of letters attacking those who thought that Jesus suffering and death was a case of mistaken identity, an illusion.

This is very, very interesting because it fits perfectly with the muslim narrative and the fact that ignacius felt the need or importance to even attack this doctrine from his jail cell suggests that this belief was quite widespread by 110CE. One cannot attack as heresy a belief or doctrine that does not yet exist.

Let's look back at the ayah ('verse') from the Quran:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah"-but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not-nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is exalted in power, wise- Qur'an 4:157-158

Given the size of the roman empire, for such an opinion to become so widespread, it must have existed from the first century. This also shows that the Muslim assertion of Jesus not the one crucified existed from the earliest days of christianity.

Let's remember that Ignacius is not attacking non-christians. He is attacking christians who had a different belief, christians who believed that the crucifixion was only an appearance.

This will come as a shock to many christians but be rest assured, this is just the beginning.

We will examine evidences from both Canonical and apocryphal scriptures that are sure to increase the shock.

Evidence 2

The Apocryphal Books

Introduction

It is important to give a brief understanding about the apocryphal books of early christianity.

There is an erroneous belief amongst christians that the early church was monolithic. There is nothing that could farther away from the truth. In fact, each church was totally independent of the other. They all had their own leaders, doctrines and theologies. They also all had their own set of recognised scripture.

Each church had its recognised scripture and dogma independent from every other church. There was no 'orthodox' set of beliefs. It would take several centuries before there was an accepted canon of scripture. This process began at the council of Nicea in the year 325CE. (Danielou J, Marrou H (1964))

We do have a partial list of apocryphal books of the gospel that existed not all. The emerging orthodoxy of the church tried to suppress and destroy these books and succeeded in some cases such that we only know about them from writings of early christians.

A list of Apocryphal: The Dialogue of the Savior, The Gospel of Andrew, The Gospel of Apelles, The Gospel of Bardesanes,The Gospel of Barnabas, The Gospel of Bartholomew, The Gospel of Basilides, The Gospel of the Birth of Mary, The Gospel of Cerinthus, The Gospel of Eve, The Gospel of the Ebionites, The Gospel of the Egyptians, The Gospel of the Encratites, Gospel of the Four Heavenly Regions, The Gospel of the Hebrews, The Gospel of Hesychius, The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, The Gospel of Judas Iscariot, The Gospel of Jude, The Gospel of Marcion, The Gospel of Mani, The Gospel of Mary, The Gospel of Matthias, The Gospel of Merinthus, The Gospel According to the Nazarenes, The Gospel of Nicodemus, The Gospel of Perfection The Gospel of Peter,The Gospel of Philip, The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew,The Gospel of Scythianus, The Gospel of the Seventy, The Gospel of Thaddaeus,The Gospel of Thomas,The Gospel of Titan,The Gospel of Truth, The Gospel of the Twelve Apostles, The Gospel of Valentinus, The Protevangelion ofJames,The Secret Gospel of Mark
Thomas's Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ.

(A) Platt RH, Brett JA. B) Cameron R (1982). C) Pagels E (1979). D) Robinson 1M (1990). E) Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W, Wilson RM (1963).)

This is very interesting list but unfortunately some of these gospels can not be found today, imagine how much of the theology of the different churches in early christianity could have been explored. This is not even an exhaustive list.

Out of all of the 45 gospels listed here, only 4 made into the new testament.. A meagre 9%. The contrast is quite dramatic. It illustrates the wealth of early Scripture, which the early church conveniently chose to ignore, ban and destroy once it started its move towards a unified dogma.

Our evidences on the said crucifixion comes from five different apocryphal sources: Two Books of Jeu; Apocalypse of Peter; The Second Treatise of the Great Seth; the Acts of John and Gospel of Barnabas.

Evidence 2a

Two Books of Jeu

The two books of Jeu is believed to have been composed in the third century (Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W, Wilson RM (1963)). It is important to know that these composition are usually from earlier scritures and references.

It reports Jesus to have said the following:

Jesus, the living one, answered and said to his apostles: "Blessed is he who has crucified the world, and has not allowed the world to crucify him." (TwoBooks ofJeu. In Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W, Wilson RM (1963). Page 261.)

The clear indication of this statement attributed to Jesus are either he was not blessed or he was not crucified. Both christians and muslims will disagree with the first option so it leaves us with only one option: he was not crucified.

Evidence 2b

Apocalypse of Peter

Found in 1945, Literary analysis suggest it might have been composed in the third century.

The quotation from this scripture maintains that Jesus Christ was only crucified in appearance, not in reality. The crucified victim is a substitute of Jesus, a substitute who came into being in the likeness of Jesus, and who appears to be identified as a demon.

When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said, "What do I see, 0 Lord, that it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?" The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me." But I, when I had looked, said, "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place." But he said to me, "I have told you, leave the blind alone! And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant they have put to shame." ...And he said to me, "Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons...But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking at those who did him violence, while they are divided among themselves. (Apocalypse ofPeter 81:4-32; 82:1-3,17-23,27-33. In Robinson IM (1990).)

The narration agrees with Quranic presentation and rejects the orthodox christian view.It rejects the notion that Jesus was crucified even though it looked that way to many people.

Evidence 2c

The Second Treatise of the Great Seth

This book is thought to be probably composed in the second century.(Dr Jerald Dirk, 2001). It was also discovered in 1945.

Again it claims that someone other than Jesus was crucified. Jesus is said to alter his appearance and physical features.

And the plan which they devised about me to release their error and their senselessness-I did not succumb to them as they had planned. But I was not afflicted at all. Those who were there punished me. And I did not die in reality but in appearance, lest I be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk...For my death which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death .. .for they were deaf and blind...Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another; their father; who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not l. They struck me with the reed; it was another; Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon whom they placed the crown of thoms...And I was laughing at their ignorance...For I was altering my shapes, changing from form to form. (The Second Treatise ofthe Great Seth 55:10-20,30-35; 56:1-13,18-19,23-25. In Robinson IM (1990). Page 365)

This is an amazing statement because we will see possible corroboration of this when we look at the canon. I won't give away the suprises yet.

Once again, the message is clear. While Jesus Christ appeared to be crucified, this was mere illusory appearance. In reality, Jesus was not crucified. Rather, it was Simon who was crucified in substitution for Jesus Details of this appear later on.In short, Seth clearly rejects the concept of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, being thus consistent with the Qur'anic presentation of the crucifixion. Once again, the traditional Christian orthodoxy is outrightly rejected by an early Christian text.

Evidence 2d

Acts of John

Thought to be composed in the early 100s, i.e the early part of the second century (Cameron R (1982). Discovered in 1897..

The passage takes place after the supposed arrest of Jesus, It is written the first person. John, one of the disciples narrates after Jesus is arrested.Jesus came to him during the time of the crucifixion and told him that it was not him that was crucified

And we were like men amazed or fast asleep, and we fled this way and that. And so I saw him suffer, and did not wait by his suffering, but fled to the Mount of Olives, and wept at what had come to pass. And when he was hung (upon the Cross) on Friday, at the sixth hour of the day there came a darkness over the whole earth. And my Lord stood in the middle of the cave and gave light to it and said, "John, for the people below in Jerusalem I am being crucified and pierced with lances and reeds, and given vinegar and gall to drink. But to you I am speaking and listen to what I speak ..."And when he had said this he showed me a Cross of Light firmly fixed, and around the Cross a great crowd, which had no single form; and in it (the Cross) was one form and the same likeness. And I saw the Lord himself above the Cross..."this is not that wooden Cross which you shall see when you go down from here; nor am I the (man) who is on the Cross. (I) whom now you do not see but only hear (my) voice. I was taken to be what I am not, 1who am not what for many others 1was; but what they will say of me is mean and unworthy of me ...So then I suffered none of those things which they will say of me; even that suffering which 1 showed to you and to the rest in my dance, 1 will that it be called a mystery ... You hear that I suffered, yet I suffered not; and that I suffered not, yet I did suffer; and that I was pierced, yet I was not wounded; that I was hanged, yet I was not hanged; that blood flowed from me, yet it did not flow; and, in a word, that what they say of me, I did not endure, but what they do not say, those things I did suffer... "(Acts ofJohn 97-99,101. In Cameron R (1982). Pages 94-96.)

Again, the relevant verses leave no doubt that the crucifixion of Jesus was only an illusion. Once again, an apocryphal writing of early Christianity totally refutes traditional Christian orthodoxy about the crucifixion event, and is consistent with the Qur'anic position on that issue.

Evidence 2e

Gospel of Barnabas

This is left as the last because it is controversial. There is evidence of a gospel of barnabas in early Christendom but there is no guarantee that what we have today as the gospel of barnabas is the same one. It remains an open question as to whether or not the book that is presently identified as being the Gospel of Barnabas is the same Gospel of Barnabas identified in the Decree of Gelasius. (A) Schneemelcher W: General Introduction. In Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W,
Wilson RM (1963). B) Platt RH, Brett JA.)

It may or may not be the same book.

Either ways, it does present its version of events:

When the soldiers with Judas drew near to the place where Jesus was...God, seeing the danger of His servant, commanded Gabriel, Michael, Rafael, and Uriel, His ministers, to take Jesus out of the world. The holy angels came and took Jesus ...and placed him in the third heaven in the company of angels blessing God for evermore Judas was so changed in speech and in face to be like Jesus the soldiery entered, and laid their hands upon Judas, because he was in every way like to Jesus ...The soldiers took Judas and bound him, not without derision ...Then the soldiers lost their patience, and with blows and kicks they began to flout Judas, and they led him with fury into Jerusalem ... (Gospel of Barnabas 215-217. In Ragg L, Ragg L (1974))..

Pontius pilate condemns Judas to crucifixion

So they led him to Mount Calvary, where they used to hang malefactors, and there they crucified him naked, for the greater ignominy. Judas truly did nothing else but cry out: "God, why hast thou forsaken me, seeing the malefactor hath escaped and I die unjustly?" Verily I say that the voice, the face, and the person of Judas were so like to Jesus, that his disciples and believers entirely believed that he was Jesus;wherefore some departed from the doctrine ofJesus ...for Jesus had said that he should not die till near the end of the world; for that at that time he should be taken away from the world. But they that stood firm in the doctrine of Jesus were so encompassed with sorrow, seeing him die who was entirely like to Jesus, that they remembered not what Jesus had said...Those disciples who did not fear God went by night (and) stole the body of Judas and hid it, spreading a report that Jesus was risen again; whence great confusion arose. GospelofBarnabas 217. In Ragg L, Ragg L (1974)..


Post crucifixion, the angels transported Jesus back to earth from the third level of heaven, in order that Jesus might make an appearance to his mother and her two sisters, to Martha, Mary Magdalene, and Lazarus, and to John, James, Peter, and Barnabas. A later appearance was then made to the seven (of the 12?) "faithful disciples", Nicodemus and Joseph(ofArimathea?). Finally,Jesus again ascended into heaven, with this ascension being witnessed by 47 of the greater 72 disciples. Gospel of Barnabas 219-221. In Ragg L, Ragg L (1974).

Inspite of the controversial nature of this gospel, it does clearly refute the orthodox position of the church and support the Quranic position.

frosbel: I repeat , you can preach that your religion is the only true faith , but that's insignificant because talk is cheap and action speaks louder than words.

God is kind, merciful , loves ALL mankind not just the Arabs or Jews , is patient, hates murder and hate etc , if your religion does not bear any of this fruit, it
cannot be of GOD , no matter how much logic you introduce to depict it as such.

So you do see the logic, you have refused to see the good in Islam, atleast you can explain why, so even if we say from today till next year boko haram are not practicing Islam it makes no difference to you, or we tell you it's not about hate and murder, if it was you wouldn't be alive but because you have chosen not to see it, telling you otherwise will be fruitless.

How about the flaws in Christianity do you not see it too? Isn't this what you practice and believe? Have you really studied what you practice, its history, the origin of so many things Christians practice I.e Christmas. Or are you among the christians who say you can't use sense and logic to understand Christianity, you can't use carnal mind to understand the spiritual, that's what some Christians base arguments on?