Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? - Religion (6)

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Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Mintayo(m): 5:03pm On Aug 15, 2013

tbaba1234: Lol, lots of ranting but zero facts... Imagine someone even copying from an anti-Islam website.

I was very fair in my assessment of everything, this is what i wrote on the gospel of barnabas:

This is left as the last because it is controversial. There is evidence of a gospel of barnabas in early Christendom but there is no guarantee that what we have today as the gospel of barnabas is the same one. It remains an open question as to whether or not the book that is presently identified as being the Gospel of Barnabas is the same Gospel of Barnabas identified in the Decree of Gelasius. (A) Schneemelcher W: General Introduction. In Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W, Wilson RM (1963). B) Platt RH, Brett JA.)

Mintayo, There are obvious historical records of it, in the Decree of Gelsius, so there was a gospel of barnabas, I gave quite a number of references to attest to it. I guess you should google it, instead of calling me a liar.

I clearly stated that why we have may or may not be the one.

I think that is a balanced view.

All I see here, is lots of ranting with little substance.

Historically, I have shown sufficiently, that the early christians were divided on the issue. If early Christians were so sharply divided on this issue, then it raises a serious problem for the christian today.

Instead , some people are missing the point.

The early christian churches chose those books as their scripture because they were convinced it was the words of God.

They had their reasons, too. They must have been convincing to them.

As regards the Quran, I would encourage you to first read it in translation first, and not visit anti-islam sites for your information.

now that u v been exposed,u v started making amendment lol...atleast u v seen d similarities btw d gospel of barnanbas n ur quran.
Now that u quote from a book of lie,u xpect us to embrace d oda books u quoted from?
For d sake of ppl reading this,"we only have d gospel(of Jesus)according to Mattew,Mark,Luke and John...d rest are letters or epistles!
Barnabas was nt even one of disciples of Jesus and He claimed to b so in d his book...and againd fact that it is d "gospel of barnabas" made it invalid!
You r nt talking to an ignorant person...
History is against islam n mohammed,do u really want us to delve into that?
Everything abt islam starts with mohammed...no prophecy whatsoever abt him by any prophet preceding him...no wonder u ppl try so hard to put him ind bible...bt d more u try,d more my faith in JESUS is cast in d iron...do u want more?
May d Lord v mercy on you all!

1 Like

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Mintayo(m): 5:04pm On Aug 15, 2013

tbaba1234: Lol, lots of ranting but zero facts... Imagine someone even copying from an anti-Islam website.

I was very fair in my assessment of everything, this is what i wrote on the gospel of barnabas:

This is left as the last because it is controversial. There is evidence of a gospel of barnabas in early Christendom but there is no guarantee that what we have today as the gospel of barnabas is the same one. It remains an open question as to whether or not the book that is presently identified as being the Gospel of Barnabas is the same Gospel of Barnabas identified in the Decree of Gelasius. (A) Schneemelcher W: General Introduction. In Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W, Wilson RM (1963). B) Platt RH, Brett JA.)

Mintayo, There are obvious historical records of it, in the Decree of Gelsius, so there was a gospel of barnabas, I gave quite a number of references to attest to it. I guess you should google it, instead of calling me a liar.

I clearly stated that why we have may or may not be the one.

I think that is a balanced view.

All I see here, is lots of ranting with little substance.

Historically, I have shown sufficiently, that the early christians were divided on the issue. If early Christians were so sharply divided on this issue, then it raises a serious problem for the christian today.

Instead , some people are missing the point.

The early christian churches chose those books as their scripture because they were convinced it was the words of God.

They had their reasons, too. They must have been convincing to them.

As regards the Quran, I would encourage you to first read it in translation first, and not visit anti-islam sites for your information.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Mintayo(m): 5:04pm On Aug 15, 2013

tbaba1234: Lol, lots of ranting but zero facts... Imagine someone even copying from an anti-Islam website.

I was very fair in my assessment of everything, this is what i wrote on the gospel of barnabas:

This is left as the last because it is controversial. There is evidence of a gospel of barnabas in early Christendom but there is no guarantee that what we have today as the gospel of barnabas is the same one. It remains an open question as to whether or not the book that is presently identified as being the Gospel of Barnabas is the same Gospel of Barnabas identified in the Decree of Gelasius. (A) Schneemelcher W: General Introduction. In Hennecke E, Schneemelcher W, Wilson RM (1963). B) Platt RH, Brett JA.)

Mintayo, There are obvious historical records of it, in the Decree of Gelsius, so there was a gospel of barnabas, I gave quite a number of references to attest to it. I guess you should google it, instead of calling me a liar.

I clearly stated that why we have may or may not be the one.

I think that is a balanced view.

All I see here, is lots of ranting with little substance.

Historically, I have shown sufficiently, that the early christians were divided on the issue. If early Christians were so sharply divided on this issue, then it raises a serious problem for the christian today.

Instead , some people are missing the point.

The early christian churches chose those books as their scripture because they were convinced it was the words of God.

They had their reasons, too. They must have been convincing to them.

As regards the Quran, I would encourage you to first read it in translation first, and not visit anti-islam sites for your information.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 5:18pm On Aug 15, 2013

The major problem with modern christians is that they do not even know anything about their scripture. They know nothing about the history of their gospel.

During the first three centuries of the so-called Christian era, there was no concept of an authorized and closed canon of New Testament scripture. Various books were viewed as scriptural on the sheer strength of their self-stated claim of being divinely inspired. Their circulation and popularity among the various Christian churches gave them a further impetus in this direction. As a result of this, what was regarded as holy scripture at one place was not necessarily regarded so in another. (Dr. Jerald Dirks 2001)

m.k.o2005:

1.Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.

Mathew, Mark, Luke and John were written in greek not hebrew. In fact none of the books in the new testament were

Mathew and Luke had sources from a earlier called Q and they are Canon.

The Gospel of thomas took from Q as well and it is called apocryphal. Even that Q gospel has three 'versions' according to christian scholars.

2.Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.

Not true, blatant lie actually... It was used by the Early churches who were convinced of it

3.These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.

Neither was Mathew, Mark , Luke and John

4.They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, d[b]uring the first four centuries of the Christian Church.[/b]
They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves;

What are you talking about?? There was no unified church doctrine in the first four centuries

5.The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible,

Of course, you mean the bible that the roman empire influenced by the Pauline school of thought chose for you, 500 years after Jesus (peace be upon him). Other Christian churches that disagreed with this went through persecution as well.

6.It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.

Untrue, how many have you actually read? You have to be specific here

7.The apocryphal books themselves make reference to what we call the Silent 400 years, where there was no prophets of God to write inspired materials.

Which apocryphal?? What exactly does this mean? There are many books, you have to be specific.

8.Some Apocryphal books, though written as history, are actually fiction. This is a form of deception not found in divinely inspired books of the Bible

Lol this is a joke right?? where is your verifiable evidence??

This is a waste of time, It is obvious that you know very little about your books or your history

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 5:19pm On Aug 15, 2013

Mintayo:
now that u v been exposed,u v started making amendment lol...atleast u v seen d similarities btw d gospel of barnanbas n ur quran.
Now that u quote from a book of lie,u xpect us to embrace d oda books u quoted from?

What amendment?? The post has been up since morning... The least you can do is read...

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 5:20pm On Aug 15, 2013

MKO 2005 as much as i like your passion, i think this discussion is a little above your level of knowledge, with all due respect. Trust me, I am just scratching the surface.

Also, you have to try to get your facts right.

The Quran mentions Jesus by name, 25 times (cited about 37 times) and Mohammad 4 times. Peace be upon them both.

Moses is cited 177 times
Abraham is cited 74 times
Noah is cited 47 times..

The Qur'an refers only to the Gospel (lnjil) of Jesus, a book of revelation that was given to Jesus Christ." However, the four canonical gospels of Christianity are definitely not this book of revelation, although they may include parts of this book in their alleged recordings of "sayings" of Jesus.

2 Likes

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 5:26pm On Aug 15, 2013

Again, My Christian friends have failed to bring any good rebuttal

So I will move to Evidence 3, from the Canon.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Sissie(f): 6:21pm On Aug 15, 2013

I agree with you tbaba they don't know much about their book and history, atleast m.k.o2005 tried to answer, but mintayo please go and educate yourself more properly, not from anti-Islam website.

And please write with some respect, you dont have to agree but write Allah (SWT) and Muhammad (SAW) properly. Am sure your educated, you should know even in English language you spell names starting with a capital letter.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Nobody: 6:27pm On Aug 15, 2013

Sissie: I agree with you tbaba they don't know much about their book and history, atleast m.k.o2005 tried to answer, but mintayo please go and educate yourself more properly, not from anti-Islam website.

And please write with some respect, you dont have to agree but write Allah (SWT) and Muhammad (SAW) properly. Am sure your educated, you should know even in English language you spell names starting with a capital letter.

So you know more about the history of Christianity than the Christian Scholars grin

Jesus is the ONLY way, he is the prince of peace, without him you have no hope.

Just look at 80% of Islamic countries with all the war, ignorance, bloodshed , confusion etc , I wonder why their religion cannot bring them peace and harmony if it is such a lofty idea.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Mintayo(m): 8:22pm On Aug 15, 2013

Sissie: I agree with you tbaba they don't know much about their book and history, atleast m.k.o2005 tried to answer, but mintayo please go and educate yourself more properly, not from anti-Islam website.

And please write with some respect, you dont have to agree but write Allah (SWT) and Muhammad (SAW) properly. Am sure your educated, you should know even in English language you spell names starting with a capital letter.

lol...should i prove d death and resuurection of Jesus to you historically?
Do u knw d history of ur religion very well?
Owk let me ask u some few questions:
-d arabs before islam,where dey kissin a stone before ur prophet came?
-where dey 'walking' round d kabba 7 times before ur prophhet came?
-where they worshiping d kabba before islam came?
Pls don't go to history at all bcus history is against islam.
U said i went to anti-islamic site,pls type' the gospel of barnabas' in google n see d result...
Again i will say it,no diff btw dt book n quran.
A quick question:tell me abt any prophet dt preced Mohammed n prophesied abt his coming!

God help us all!

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by ghazzal: 8:41pm On Aug 15, 2013

When people talk about history, I laugh.

google greatest lies in history. Once an information is not verified in the past, it becomes history. Is that what people use to make decision about Salvation.

I think we first need to understand what salvation is. What eternal life is. then we can begin to get serious about search for the truth.

May God guide us all aright.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by mazaje(m): 9:26pm On Aug 15, 2013

Here is the problem. . .Tbaba goes about bringing stories from discredited sources like the gospel of Barnabas that says Jesus was not crucified. I am not a christian but tbaba is just playing the normal games muslims play. . .The founders of Islam wanted to create a new religion, they took the already established religion of the Jews and the christians, re-wrote it and claimed it is the final revelation from their own god. . .

The gospels and the bible have their own problems but so does the koran and th hadith. . .Everything that we know about the prophet Mohammed we know ONLY from his very biased followers who wanted to promote him and help him propagate his new religion. . .The hadith as we know them today came over 200 years after the death of Mohammed for example. . .islam is agains christianty as such it is expected that it goes around looking for books that tear into or disagree with the christian message since it wants to establish itself using some of the christian stories. . . . .

2 Likes

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Maisuya1: 9:45pm On Aug 15, 2013

^
With all due respect, the argument presented here by tbaba r clear, concise and schorlarly laid out (with references). I have read ur posts in the past and they also are researched. But please let the christains debunk tbaba's assertion and establish with superior proof the validity of one of the most important dogma of their creed - crucifixion. Otherwise you can debunk them with reason or research and let's not do the 'Islam this Islam that' argument cycle when christainity is cornered. I am sure if there is a thread discussing anything Islam MATUREDLY (without insults) you will find us most willing to discuss fact for fact, evidence for evidence.

But for now let's stay on point.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 10:03pm On Aug 15, 2013

^ Deleted, I think Mai-suya has reponded

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by mazaje(m): 10:29pm On Aug 15, 2013

Mai-suya:
^
With all due respect, the argument presented here by tbaba r clear, concise and schorlarly laid out (with references). I have read ur posts in the past and they also are researched. But please let the christains debunk tbaba's assertion and establish with superior proof the validity of one of the most important dogma of their creed - crucifixion. Otherwise you can debunk them with reason or research and let's not do the 'Islam this Islam that' argument cycle when christainity is cornered. I am sure if there is a thread discussing anything Islam MATUREDLY (without insults) you will find us most willing to discuss fact for fact, evidence for evidence.

But for now let's stay on point.

Agreed, the christians responding to this topic obviously do not have good historical knowledge of the bible and the gospels as such they are not responding well. . .Only one person(m.k.o 2005) has tried to respond well so far. . .I was shocked by some of the response here. . .My point is the same could be said of the koran. . .But then let me allow the christians to defend their faith and not derail. . .

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by kayword(m): 10:55pm On Aug 15, 2013

frosbel:

So you know more about the history of Christianity than the Christian Scholars
:-)

If you cared to notice, all the references he made use of were from christian scholars

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 11:02pm On Aug 15, 2013

Evidence 3

The Canon

The canonical books of the new testament are Mark, Mathew, Luke and John. Mark, Mathew and Luke are called the Synoptic Gospels because they frequently present a united front. All four gospels are based on prior hypothesised written sources like Q, proto-Mark, M, L, and other hypothesized documents. NONE of these four gospels were actually written by a disciple of Jesus (peace be upon him).

The order of authorship is Mark- Mathew- Luke -John

Luke and Mathew based some of their writings on Mark. None of the books in their initial completed form can be dated earlier than the last quarter of the first century. John is dated in the first quarter of the second century. Editing of these books continued throughout the first few centuries.

The above proves that none of the authors of the four canonical gospels was an actual eye-witness to the events of the crucifixion, and even though they seem to include first hand accounts, they were only stories of news happenings as told to them, either directly or though intermediaries.

(A) Moffat J (1929). B) Robertson AT (1929). C) Burch EW (1929). etc )

Here we are going carefully examine crucifixion stories in all four gospels, a careful reading would clearly suggest that the person who was crucified was not Jesus, afterall.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by kayword(m): 11:03pm On Aug 15, 2013

frosbel:

Just look at 80% of Islamic countries with all the war, ignorance, bloodshed , confusion etc , I wonder why their religion cannot bring them peace and harmony if it is such a lofty idea.

You should have tried checking who /what are the primary instigators of the "war" and "bloodshed''; WWII, Israel, Soviet Republic, US Of America.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 12:53am On Aug 16, 2013

Evidence 3a

The Release of Barabbas

The release of Barabbas is recorded in all four gospels. In each account, Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of Judaea, gives the Jewish crowd a choice between the release of two prisoners, one of whom has been traditionally presented as Jesus who is called Messiah, and the other of whom has been presented as a notorious outlaw, who is known only as Barabbas.

The agitated crowd chose Barabbas to be released and Jesus who is called Messiah is supposedly crucified.

As we will soon see, this sunday school protrayal is less than accurate primarily because the most ancient and accurate texts and evidences are kept away from the average christian.

The new revised standard version translators went to the earliest sources and they have this thought-provoking translation from Mathew:

Now Jesus stood before the governor; and the governor asked him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" Jesus said, "You say so."... Now at the festival the governor was accustomed to release a prisoner for the crowd, anyone whom they wanted. At that time they had a notorious prisoner, called Jesus Barabbas. So after they had gathered, Pilate said to them, "Whom do you want me to release for you, Jesus Barabbas or Jesus who is called the Messiah? For he realized that it was out of jealousy that they had handed him over. While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent word to him, "Have nothing to do with that innocent man, for today I have suffered a great deal because of a dream about him." Now the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus killed. The governor again said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release for you?" And they said, "Barabbas." Pilate said to them, "Then what should I do with Jesus who is called the Messiah?" All of them said, "Let him be crucified!" Then he asked, "Why, what evil has he done?" But they shouted all the more, "Let him be crucified!" So when Pilate saw that he could do nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took some water and washed his hands before the crowd,saying,"I am innocent of this man's blood;see to it yourselves." Then the people as a whole answered,"His blood be on us and on our children!" So he released Barabbas for them; and after flogging Jesus, he handed him over to be crucified (Matthew 27:11,15-26.)

The text quoted above from Matthew, as found in The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), clearly identifies Barabbas as having the given name of Jesus. The New Revised Standard Version goes to the earliest manuscripts available.(

So we have two names:

Jesus Barabbas

and

Jesus who is called messiah.

Bible scholars have known for a very long time that 'Barabbas' first name was Jesus. However, we see that the king's James Version of the Bible totally omits the first name Jesus. The New Revised Standard Version of 1989 presents this name in the text where it is supposed to be.

This gets even more interesting.

Bible translators are still not telling us the full story because Barabbas is not a name. It is a patronymic.

It is presented as Jesus Bar Abbas... In Aramaic, 'Bar' means 'son of'. In Arabic, you have 'Bin'.

Abbas is also not a name, it means father in Aramaic (Language spoken by Jesus).

Therefore, Jesus Bar Abbas actually means : Jesus, son of the father.

So we have two options:

Jesus, Son of the Father

or

Jesus who is called Messiah

To expose this dishonesty, in Matthew 16:17. In the NRSV, the translators have gone all the way, and have rendered the name "Simon son of Jonah". In the earlier RSV, the translators have simply said "Simon Bar-Jona" but they refuse to translate Barabbas.

If you ask, 100 christians today, Who is Jesus, son of the father? You will get 100% response as Jesus Christ...

This leaves us with a big problem here. Jesus Barabbas is simply Jesus, son of the father. This is not from an apocryphal book, This is directly from the canonical gospel of Mathew. (Later, we will examine why this 'sonship' has nothing to do with 'begotten son' wink

,) For now let us focus of this incredible dilemma.

Bible translators are still refraining from translating it, but there is progress. We moved from Barabass in the KJV, To Jesus Barabass as just a footnote in in the RSV, To Jesus Barabass in the NRSV.

So we have two options:

Jesus, Son of the Father

or

Jesus who is called Messiah

So Jesus the son of the Father is freed and Jesus who is called Messiah is crucified.

Alright, now time to examine the word Messiah.

The Hebrew word "Mashiah", which is rendered "Messiah" in the Bible, simply means "anointed".

Thus, even if Pilate's words were "Jesus who is called the Messiah", all he was saying was "Jesus who is called the anointed." Who were the anointed of Israel? The answer is the kings and high priests of Israel.

In that regard, any insurrectionist who was laying claim to being the king of Israel, and there were many such people in the first century CE, would have had himself anointed as king of Israel, and could have been referred to as "Messiah" (Dr Jerald Dirk, 2001)

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 1:53am On Aug 16, 2013

Evidence 3a (continued)

The hebrew understanding of messiah is very important because it helps us understand why Pilate asked the question, he did.

So who is who?

Prior to Pilate asking the crowd whom they want released, Matthew has Pilate asking a single, pointed question to Jesus, i.e., "Are you the King of the Jews?". This was the only thing in which Pilate appeared to be interested. Was Jesus laying claim to being the King of the Jews, and thus leading an insurrection against Rome?

Pilate had no concern about internal bickering among the Jewish religious establishment. Whether or not someone claimed to be a religious figure such as the Messiah was not his concern. He wanted to affirm the claim of kingship, since this encompassed temporal and secular authority, posing a challenge to the imperial rule of Rome. Hence, he did not ask Jesus if Jesus were the theological Messiah, because Pilate didn't care about this issue. However, Pilate did care if Jesus were claiming to be King of the Jews. Claiming to be the theological Messiah was not a crime under Roman law, while claiming to be the King of the Jews certainly was.

Now that we know the meaning of messiah and pontius pilate real concerns,

let's move to the passage in Mark as it makes it clearer:

So the crowd came and began to ask Pilate to do for them according to his custom. Then he answered them, "Do you want me to release for you the King of the Jews?" ... But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have him release Barabbas for them instead Mark 15:8-9,11.

Notice the subtle change:

The choice is between

Jesus Son of the Father

and

Jesus, King of the Jews.

Given this version, there is no ambiguity or confusion as to identity. Jesus, who claimed to be the King of the Jews, and had thus been anointed as such, i.e. had become a Messiah, was turned over for crucifixion, while Jesus, the son of the Father, was released. What could be simpler or more straightforward than that?

It was this Jesus, (king of the Jews) who was the actual murderer and insurrectionist, whose charges were falsely being attributed to Jesus, the son of the Father, simply through the confusion, deliberate or otherwise, created by the writers of the gospels or their renderers, redactors, or editors.

Jesus, the son of the father was released.

If you disagree with the above, It is still a big problem because it means the respective identities of who was released (Jesus, the son of the Father) and of who was crucified (Jesus who is called the Messiah) are still confusing and unanswered questions.

Corroborating evidence

If Pilate did, indeed, sentence Jesus Christ to death by crucifixion, how should the early churches have viewed Pilate and his associates? Would not Pilate have been vilified to the ends of the earth by the early Christian churches?

One would certainly think so. However, the facts are radically different.

On October 28th, the Eastern Orthodox Church calendar lists the feast day of Saint Procla, the wife of Pontius Pilate.

On June 25th, the Coptic Christian Church lists the feast day of Saint Procla and of Saint Pontius Pilate !

Procla was canonized as a saint by both the Eastern Orthodox Church and by the Coptic Christian Church,

while Pontius Pilate was canonized as a saint by the Coptic Christian Church.

How did the early Coptic Christian Church ever justify canonizing as a saint the man, who condemned Jesus Christ to death by crucifixion?

This just defies all reason and all logic.

What did these early Christians know that modern Christians don't know?

Perhaps, they knew that Pontius Pilate, their beloved saint, was the man who released Jesus Christ. Perhaps, they had a better understanding of Matthew, than do most modern Christians.

Case closed!

This would come as a massive shock to many christians, but hold on to your seats.

More Evidences to come.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Mintayo(m): 6:26am On Aug 16, 2013

mazaje: Here is the problem. . .Tbaba goes about bringing stories from discredited sources like the gospel of Barnabas that says Jesus was not crucified.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by lanrexlan(m): 6:41am On Aug 16, 2013

This is really interesting Tbaba,waiting for our christian brothers filled with 'holy spirit' to debunk these evidences. grin

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Rexyl(m): 7:36am On Aug 16, 2013

WOW PEOPLE WHO ARE BLINDED SPIRITUALLY STILL WANT MORE THINGS TO BE TOLD AFTER MUCH TRUTH ABOUT GOSPEL OF JESUS HAS BEEN TOLD. THEY ARE JUST GOING LONGER WAY AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. WE APPRECIATED THEIR LONG RESEARCHES THAT MAKE US KNOW MUCH MORE ABOUT THIER RELIGION. THEY HAVE SHOWN THEIR RELIGION CAN NEVER STAND WHAT BIBLE BRINGS FOR REDEMPTION AND SALVATION OF HUMAN SOULS BY CHRIST GOSPEL. INTERESTINGLY THEY HAVE SHOWN IT TO US FROM ALL THE EVIDENCES BROUGHT FORWARD THAT THEIR RELIGIOUS LITERATURE AND BOOKS WERE CAREFULLY PREPARED FROM THE BIBLE TO SUITE THE RELIGIOUS AND PROBABLY POLITICAL INTERESTS OF THE FOUNDERS. MUCH HAS BEEN REVEALED AS DISHONESTY TO CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES. THEY HAVE SHOWN THAT WRITERS OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BOOK SCIENTIFICALLY AND DELIBERATELY ALTERED BIBLE. WHAT A GREAT ABOMINATION!
PLEASE WHAT DOES COVENANT THAT INITIATED BIBLE MEANS TO YOU? THE ONE GOD STARTED WITH ABRAHAM AND CONTINUED WITH ISAAC AND JACOB UP TO DAVID AND JESUS. HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR ABRAHAM‘S DISOBEDIENCE THAT GAVE BIRTH TO ISMAHAEL? YOU SHOULD KNOW AS GOD REMAINS UNCHANGED HIS COVENANT CAN NEVER BE SUBSTITUTED. YOU ARE JUST TRYING!

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Rexyl(m): 7:37am On Aug 16, 2013

@ tbaba @ lanrexian,WOW PEOPLE WHO ARE BLINDED SPIRITUALLY STILL WANT MORE THINGS TO BE TOLD AFTER MUCH TRUTH ABOUT GOSPEL OF JESUS HAS BEEN TOLD. THEY ARE JUST GOING LONGER WAY AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. WE APPRECIATED THEIR LONG RESEARCHES THAT MAKE US KNOW MUCH MORE ABOUT THIER RELIGION. THEY HAVE SHOWN THEIR RELIGION CAN NEVER STAND WHAT BIBLE BRINGS FOR REDEMPTION AND SALVATION OF HUMAN SOULS BY CHRIST GOSPEL. INTERESTINGLY THEY HAVE SHOWN IT TO US FROM ALL THE EVIDENCES BROUGHT FORWARD THAT THEIR RELIGIOUS LITERATURE AND BOOKS WERE CAREFULLY PREPARED FROM THE BIBLE TO SUITE THE RELIGIOUS AND PROBABLY POLITICAL INTERESTS OF THE FOUNDERS. MUCH HAS BEEN REVEALED AS DISHONESTY TO CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES. THEY HAVE SHOWN THAT WRITERS OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BOOK SCIENTIFICALLY AND DELIBERATELY ALTERED BIBLE. WHAT A GREAT ABOMINATION!
PLEASE WHAT DOES COVENANT THAT INITIATED BIBLE MEANS TO YOU? THE ONE GOD STARTED WITH ABRAHAM AND CONTINUED WITH ISAAC AND JACOB UP TO DAVID AND JESUS. HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR ABRAHAM‘S DISOBEDIENCE THAT GAVE BIRTH TO ISMAHAEL? YOU SHOULD KNOW AS GOD REMAINS UNCHANGED HIS COVENANT CAN NEVER BE SUBSTITUTED. YOU ARE JUST TRYING!

2 Likes

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 7:38am On Aug 16, 2013

Lol, if you want, we can talk about Abraham convenant but one step at a time. Everything is from your canon bible.

Easy, bro easy.

1 Like

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Mintayo(m): 8:28am On Aug 16, 2013

tbaba1234: ^ Lol, if you want, we can talk about Abraham convenant but one step at a time. Everything is from your canon bible.

Easy, bro easy.

has it ever occured to you that pilate maybe canonized because he eventually accepted Jesus as the Lord and messiah...i bet ur 'logical reasoning' didnt tell u that!
Or going by ur 'logical resoning' what do u think wild be d aftermath of pilate's wife telling not to have anything to do with Jesus! I bet ur logic didnt tell u that!
I know where all this will end...trying to confirm d 'lies' in ur book dt Jesus did~~not~~die/resurrect!
May God help you!

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Mintayo(m): 8:29am On Aug 16, 2013

tbaba1234: ^ Lol, if you want, we can talk about Abraham convenant but one step at a time. Everything is from your canon bible.

Easy, bro easy.

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Nobody: 8:46am On Aug 16, 2013

kayword:
You should have tried checking who /what are the primary instigators of the "war" and "bloodshed''; WWII, Israel, Soviet Republic, US Of America.

USSR was communist, Israel is Jewish ( lol ) , and the rest are at best wishy washy church goers or not.

Any religion founded on the mass killing of people is certainly not of God.

2 Likes

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by Nobody: 9:44am On Aug 16, 2013

I have no time to go into a lengthy monologue, but let me clarify a few things for the benefit of my brethren.

1. In the days of the apostles and church leaders there was no new testament, the scripture was still the Tanakh. The Tanakh contains the Torah, Prophets and other writings such as the Psalms , Proverbs etc.

2. The new testament is simply a collection of letters, gospels , early church model and activities , and the final revelation of all things to come.

3. There are no doubt other books which were authentic , for as John nicely stated here :
John 21:25
New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

4. However not all books are authentic, scripture must validate scripture , and the benchmark for the testing of all scripture is the Tanakh. Any book that is not aligned to the teachings, prophecies and revelations of the Tanakh is not authentic for God does not contradict himself.

To cut the long story short, there have been a plethora of false doctrines since the days of the apostles which is why they fought day and night to preserve the purity of the faith. For example Jude the half brother of Jesus exhorted the brethren thus:
"Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people." - Jude 1:3

However , the church had been infiltrated by false prophets and teachers :
2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. (NASB: Lockman)

Of these destructive heresies , the most damaging was gnosticism , it's influence on the early church and the many false gospels it produced. These are the false gospels that tbaba1234 and team keep referring to , erroneously , if I may add.

It is also from these false books and the Jewish heretical Talmud , that the Quran derived a large portion of it's content , in some cases word for word plagiarism. I will delve into the detail later this evening , time permitting.

God can and does protect his word , and he has done so over the millennia. It is indeed worthy to note that the books we have today are sufficient to teach ALL mankind the way into the kingdom of GOD which is ONLY through Jesus Christ.

If there are false doctrines and practices in Christianity, it is not because of a problem with authenticity of scripture, rather it is because of the misapplication, misrepresentation and in some cases twisting of it's great truths to the satisfaction of heretics and the reprobates.

Islam is nether a continuation of Judaism nor Christian, it is an aberration of both.

Jesus is the ONLY WAY , the ONLY TRUTH and the ONLY Path to LIFE for all Mankind, there is no other name under heaven that God has given for our salvation, do not be deceived.

1 Like

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by mko2005: 4:37pm On Aug 16, 2013

We are back !
Thought this ought to have been on front page by now !-Anyways,let's go ahead slowly but surely.
Some people are getting themselves confused becos of the death,resurrection and ascension into heaven of our Lord Jesus Christ.- wink

Let us look into the quran a little to see the confusions therein :
''And peace on me on the day I was born, and on t[b]he day I die[/b], and on the day I am raised to life”
-Sura 19:33 According to our quran people,they said Jesus made this statement in their quran and they believed HIM 100 percent becos a,llah said they should believe in Jesus ! cheesy

See below another one from the quran:

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain''.-Sura4:157
The quote directly above goes to confirm what they said Jesus said in their(Sura 19:33) But some of them said no oo,we belived that HE will die but not now,becos HE will first ascend into heaven with HIS real body,then come back later to the earh to make it perfect,marry,have kids and everyone on earth will live happily ever after before HE(JESUS)will then die and go to heaven to validate sura 4:157 - grin

Ok,let us see this other one below just to confirm how it 'agrees'with the above two ! shocked

''Surah 3:54-55 says,
''And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed [/b]against them and [b]Allah is the best of SCHEMERS.
And remember when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee ABOVE (SUPERIOR) those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.-Sura 3:55
Please our muslim friends,what other resurrection day is ur quran talking about since it countered the sura 19:33 ur quran put's forward concerning Jesus'death and resurection?or could it also mean that this Surah 3:54-55 is taken to mean
a,llah permitted Jesus to be killed and then he surprised the schemers who thought that once Jesus was killed that would be the end of his existence. But God raised Jesus up alive to fulfill Surah 19:33. !

or are u still holding unto HE not been crucified but was caused to die a natural death and was raised (resurrected)again?
Surah 3:55 says followers of Jesus are superior than Muslims. The verse says "those who follow Jesus" and not "those who only believe in Jesus". As muslims do not follow Jesus but believe in Jesus only, muslims are 2nd class believers based on the Quran ! grin

God help us !

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by mko2005: 5:53pm On Aug 16, 2013

The muslims kicked started with their confusion when they tried mis-interpreting the below sura to fit it into their satanic lies and deception!
And for their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain''.-Sura4:157 #
You know tbaba,i have always told you that ur mohamed copied the apocryphal uninspired books,twisted the canonical(bible)giving it a touch of the bible creation story to make it look 'original'to give you ur gibberish called quran !
Considering the fact that he(mahamed)came around the 6th-7th century (close to 600yrs after Christ)let us also see how he made success in compiling and selling lies to you folks!
There were Gnostic Christian sects in and around Syria and Arabia at that time. The Gnostic Christians believed in the doctrine of Docetism.(the doctrine according to which the phenomenon of Christ, his historical and bodily existence, and thus above all the human form of Jesus, was altogether mere semblance without any true reality) Within the doctrine of Docetism is the idea that Jesus Christ had two aspects of his being: the material (flesh) and the spiritual (his Spirit)Please don't also forget that apocrphal books can so twist the word of God to make it look invalid.So,in Sura 4:157, mhammad was reflecting the idea that he had heard or was taught: he wasactually taught that though it appeared to the Jews and Romans that they had killed the Christ (his flesh), they had not killed or crucified the true spiritual nature and being of Christ. lol,what do you expect him(mohamed)to think or feel when there are so many people with such belive.And if you look at it critically,you will also see that we(Christians) believe that since Jesus was resurrected,not the spirit alone but the body as well,we can also say our lord JESUS CHRIST IS ALIVE

And also,there were a very few Gnostic Christians around Arabia in the 6th Century that were spreading the heretical lies of balisides. balisides was a heretic who, between 130 AD and 150 AD, was telling others that Jesus Christ had not been crucified, but that Simon Cyrene had been crucified in his place.Actually this was not the true Gnostic teaching of Docetism, but was a deviation of the doctrine of Docetism from Satan that had been perpetuated by Balisides, and others who came after him like mohamed !
Clearly,early muslim “scholars” have tried to perpetuate this lie of Satan by misinterpreting Sura 4:157, and saying that the person on the cross was a “young man who volunteered to Jesus” (according to Ibn Abbas), or Judas Iscariot(according to the fraudulent gospel of Barnabas which tbaba is madly in love with)But who cares if they misinterpret their own error ! balisides another mohamedians said that it was Simon of Cyrene! Three different people – ALL “full of doubts, with no (certain)knowledge, but only conjecture to follow,”.
But these other suras in the quran clearly dispel the substitution theory, because Sura 3:155, Sura 5:117, and Sura 19:33 all say it is Jesus who died.But the true Gnostic teaching regarding Docetism best explains mohammad’s 'jinn inspired', ambiguous musings in Sura 4:157.
The idea that anyone would reject all the Prophecies and Scripture about the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ in the bible and even in ur on contradictory quran based upon one ambiguous verse of that same quran is foolishly ridiculous !
But it is the discrepancies and contradictive verses in your quran that should show you that Sura 4:157 does not mean that the man Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. Truly, His eternal Spirit could not be killed or crucified ! If that is what confused mohamed and his followers like tbaba123 and the rest of you muslims,then i can understand ! grin

But, Satan does not care how he gets a person to deny the crucifixion and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The spirit of anti-Christ works in the atheist’s heart as well as in the heart’s of those who follow a false religion that denies the Son of God like you muslims !

God help us

1 Like

Re: Is The Christian God And The Muslim God One ? by tbaba1234: 9:13pm On Aug 16, 2013

My Christian brethen, I have not shared knowledge that is not known by christian scholarship. It is just not known by the average Christian.

The lesson so far is simple:

For Muslims, the lesson may be that many of the early Christian churches were much closer to Islam than previously thought.

For Christians, the lesson may be that the doctrine of the crucifixion was very much questioned and debated by the early churches.

With that in mind, perhaps they might be willing to take a second look at the teachings of Islam with some honesty, and to consider the similarities between the teachings of Islam and the foundations of early Christianity.

I have a busy day tomorrow so my next set of evidences will be delayed.

@MKO

Here is a translation of the Quran, it would be helpful.

At least, it will help you speak with knowledge instead of ranting.

The Quran A new translation by M. A. S. ABDEL HALEEM (Oxford press) is highly recommended because of the simple language....

Pdf copy:http://asadullahali.files./2010/09/the_quran.pdf

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