italo:
No. Religion is not illogical. It's Atheism that is illogical and I'll tell you why.

Religion is illogical. It makes conclusions it has no evidence for. If religion is logical, then all religions are right. If all religions are right, then all religions are false.

italo:
I tell you I know God is. That he is Spirit but can sometimes manifest himself in the physical or make himself perceivable to our natural senses. I tell you I have perceived him. Yet you claim I have never perceived him. How are you to know?

Lol. Ask kids about imaginary friends...

italo:
How can you say because you cant see something, it doesnt exist?

Of course, it's unreasonable. But when you claim to see something no one else can see, something that is not willing to show itself, we can as well dismiss it and leave you to your delusions. There's a reason man built psychiatric wards..

italo:
How illogical does it get?

You claim that I have faith without physical evidence...and I agree. You tell me I believe religious leaders when they tell me God is without physical evidence and I agree.


But the irony is: you believe man evolved from fish without physical evidence too. You believe in emotions like love and hate exist without physical evidence too. You believe because men have told you these without physical evidence too.

We experience hate, love and a gamut of other emotions as humans and sentient beings.. Love and hate can not exist on their own.. And atheism makes no claim as to how life originated.. Stop equating atheism with science. If you have a grouse with science because it invalidates some of the claims in your religious text, go blow up all laboratories, health care centers....

italo:
Evidently, even Atheists are people of FAITH too: BELIEVING without physical evidence.

So your EVIDENCE is ill-conceived conjectures...

italo:
Then, the troubling thing is: you ask me to use a telescope to show you a spirit.
Incredible!
Like a blind man asking me to show him a picture before he can believe something.
Spiritually, you are blind and will not perceive a spirit...

Is air spirit? What is a spirit?


And honestly, the drivel above is just pathetic. Need I remind you how you started

italo:
No. Religion is not illogical. It's Atheism that is illogical and I'll tell you why.

smh.

As some people are aware the left part of the brain is the part that deals with "logic and time". It deals with looking at the past, evaluating it and then coming to a conclusion on the present or about the future. This looking at the past and working out what the future might be, can be anywhere from a few seconds to years. It is the Mind or the Lower Mental Body of an individual.

While the right side of the brain deals with the creative and spiritual side of you where time is not involved. The right side of the brain handles inspiration coming in from the "Higher Mental Body and above". Or to put it in another way, handles information coming in from the highest planes of consciousness where spirit reside.

The left side of the brain deals with the past and the future, while the right side deals only with THE NOW, this instant of time. The left side of the brain is restricted to conditioning in this life and past lives, while the right side of the brain has no such restrictions. It has access to all knowledge and wisdom.

The left side is under the dominance of the "SELF or EGO", while the right side is connected to the "Higher Self" the spiritual and divine within you.

The left side is connected to the "I AM" part of people. The "I AM" part that says you want to do this, you want to do that, and you do not want to get involved in anything you don't like or do not want to do. It is the selfish part of you! Most of the decisions of the left brain revolve around "Pain and Pleasure", usually on a short-term basis.

While the right side, connected as it is to the "Higher Self", looks at more a long term vision. This vision coming in from the Helpers, Guides, Teachers, and Masters from the plane of Spirit.

For the Uninitiated, the left brain is where atheism stems from, the right brain home of theism.

When I saw this empty baseless post, devoid of logic or reasoning, I knew it couldnt be Plaetton or any of the other Atheists. It could only be you.

It seems that you are not up to speed with the others.

Logicboy03:




lol at the bold.....


Religion is illogical. Fact
Religion offers no spirituality.

FrostyZonn: As some people are aware the left part of the brain is the part that deals with "logic and time". It deals with looking at the past, evaluating it and then coming to a conclusion on the present or about the future. This looking at the past and
working out what the future might be, can be anywhere from a few seconds to years. It is the Mind or the Lower Mental Body of an individual.

While the right side of the brain deals with
the creative and spiritual side of you where time is not involved. The right side of the brain handles inspiration coming in from the "Higher Mental Body and above".
Or to put it in another way, handles
information coming in from the highest planes of consciousness where spirit reside.

The left side of the brain deals with the past and the future, while the right side deals only with THE NOW, this instant of time. The left side of the brain is restricted to conditioning in this life and past lives, while the right side of the
brain has no such restrictions. It has access to all knowledge and
wisdom.

The left side is under the dominance of the "SELF or EGO", while the right side is connected to the "Higher Self" the spiritual and divine within you.

The left side is connected to the "I AM" part of people. The "I AM" part that says you want to do this, you want to do that, and you do not want to get involved in
anything you don't like or do not want to do. It is the selfish part of you! Most of the decisions of the left brain revolve around "Pain and Pleasure", usually on a short-term basis.

While the right side, connected as it is to the "Higher Self", looks at more a long-term vision. This vision coming in from the Helpers, Guides, Teachers, and Masters from the plane of Spirit.

For the Uninitiated, the left brain is where atheism stems from, the right brain home of theism.

Pseudo-scientific babble!!


Nonsense. Abeg dont talk about neurology that you clearly do not understand.


Theism, especially religious theism is borne of of ignorance and dogmatic principles.

[size=18pt]Infact, when you have a "spiritual" experience, you are no different from one who is high on magic mushrooms[/size]
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/health/HealthRepublish_1682610.htm

Logicboy03:


Pseudo-scientific babble!!


Nonsense. Abeg dont talk about neurology that you clearly do not understand.


Theism, especially religious theism is borne of of ignorance and dogmatic principles.

Infact, when you have a "spiritual" experience, you are no different from one who is high on magic mushrooms.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/health/HealthRepublish_1682610.htm

Mr Troll:
you can't just say it and expect to be believed. We are not gullible sheeple you know. You have to show proof for your claim. Until then, it remains a drug induced hallucination. Muchechechecheche

Are we talking logic here or you just want to mock?

I am saying it is illogical to conclude that something doesnt exist because you have not perceived the proof.

Yes or no?

Mr Troll:

this is a strawman. You can know something exists without seeing it physically. No atheists make the claim that everything that exists must be physically seen.

By see, I meant perceive, prof. How can you conclude that it doesnt exist because YOU cant perceive it?

Mr Troll:

another strawman...

there are evidences for evolution. Don't be an ignorant douchebag. Have you heard of inductive reasoning?

Ignorant? Alright show me your evidence that you evolved from fish...dont just quote the words of men to me.

Mr Troll:

believing in what without evidence?

You pretend you didnt see what I said before. You believe there are emotions like love and hate, you believe people dream when they sleep, you believe people can imagine things.

Can you show me evidence of these things?

Mr Troll:

another strawman. Do you work in an animal farm?

muchechecheche

I reiterate! You cannot see a visual picture if you are physically blind...just like you cannot perceive the spiritual realm if you are spiritually blind.

The fact that we have more than 10,000. religions that are contradictory and mutually exclusive proves beyond reasonable doubt , that theism is illogical.

Bro, read up.. the left brain/ right brain myth has been debunked...

FrostyZonn: As some people are aware the left part of the brain is the part that deals with "logic and time". It deals with looking at the past, evaluating it and then coming to a conclusion on the present or about the future. This looking at the past and working out what the future might be, can be anywhere from a few seconds to years. It is the Mind or the Lower Mental Body of an individual.

While the right side of the brain deals with the creative and spiritual side of you where time is not involved. The right side of the brain handles inspiration coming in from the "Higher Mental Body and above". Or to put it in another way, handles information coming in from the highest planes of consciousness where spirit reside.

The left side of the brain deals with the past and the future, while the right side deals only with THE NOW, this instant of time. The left side of the brain is restricted to conditioning in this life and past lives, while the right side of the brain has no such restrictions. It has access to all knowledge and wisdom.

The left side is under the dominance of the "SELF or EGO", while the right side is connected to the "Higher Self" the spiritual and divine within you.

The left side is connected to the "I AM" part of people. The "I AM" part that says you want to do this, you want to do that, and you do not want to get involved in anything you don't like or do not want to do. It is the selfish part of you! Most of the decisions of the left brain revolve around "Pain and Pleasure", usually on a short-term basis.

While the right side, connected as it is to the "Higher Self", looks at more a long term vision. This vision coming in from the Helpers, Guides, Teachers, and Masters from the plane of Spirit.

For the Uninitiated, the left brain is where atheism stems from, the right brain home of theism.

plaetton: I intend, through deductive reasoning, to prove that atheism is the default mental settings, and, that religious faith is the extreme Form of our default mental/ intellectual settings.

Therefore, when one breaks from the pack to declare atheistic viewpoints, the person is actually pressing the reset or reboot button to revert to default settings.
"When in doubt,Reboot".

Anyway, while I take my time to assemble my points,I invite all to present theirs.

Yes all babies are born atheist until the brain settings are tuned to the extreme level by belief systems. Babies are not judgmental,religious,not aware of tribalism......

Sometime people get back to that way of life and understand life itself is meaningless. Life is best enjoyed when no meaning is added to it. A laws are man made that can be broken.

plaetton: PREAMBLE:

During the soviet era, and all untill the final collapse of the former Soviet Union , it was a commonly accepted notion that Capitalism and Communism were two diametrically opposed systems of resource allocation and distribution.
In Communism, it was believed that national resources of production and distribution belonged to all the people, and was to be held in sacred trust by the state.

Capitalism, on the other hand, relied on few private profit-motivated hands for the efficient allocation, production and distribution of resources.
Both were assumed to be opposite ideological, political and economic systems.
For a very long time, a cold war between the two foremost nations sort of cemented that dichotomy in everyone's mind.

However, with collapse of the former Soviet union, we have seen the rise of the oligarchs, the super rich billionaires of the new Russia.
These oligarchs, an elite few, are now the champions of free market capitalism. These oligarchs are former members, or friends and family members of the politbureau or the communist party top brass.

One is forced to wonder where and how did the newly minted oligarchs learn and master the capitalist system so fast?
The answer is they did not have to learn it all.
It now appears that communism was just a fancy name and mask for super or extreme capitalism.
The former communist party top brass simply kept the resources that they held, or pretended to hold in trust for masses.

So, in communism, contrary what was being professed, state resources and all the factors of production were held and controlled by even far fewer people than the capitalist systems of the west.

But unlike free market capitalism of the west, the extreme capitalism of the communist state operated on monopoly systems, where only a handful of powerful state elites controlled all the resources, whilest pretending to hold it in trust for the masses.

So today, the sudden rise of the Russian oligarchs to super billioniredom is certain proof that communist Russia was simply operating a kind of super or extreme capitalism under the veil of the generic word called communism.
Capitalism of the west and the communism of the east were simply two sides of the same coin, with one being more extreme than the other.

Incidentally, the same can be said of religious faith and atheism,... with one simply being the extreme of the other.

By simply disregarding what they preach and looking at what they do, I will endeavor to shed a microscopic light on religious beliefs and practices, and to do a piece by piece analysis to prove that it is all about doubts and disbelief,- aka, atheism.
Stay tuned.

You have an excellent way of reasoning bro. There are obviously few people who reason this way on this plant .Pls keep it up!

musKeeto:
Religion is illogical. It makes conclusions it makes no evidence for. If religion is logical, then all religions are right. If all religions are right, then all religions are false.

Yeah right. Like saying if Atheism is right, then all Atheists are right. And if they are all right, they are false.

There is a difference between "logical" and "truthful." I thought you Atheists tout yourselves as "intelligent." As it turns out, most of you are dumber than the average suicide bomber.

musKeeto:

Lol. Ask kids about imaginary friends...


Of course, it's unreasonable. But when you claim to see something no one else can see, something that is not willing to show itself, we can as well dismiss it and leave you to your delusions. There's a reason man built psychiatric wards..

The keyword there is UNREASONABLE! It is unreasonable - ILLOGICAL to claim assert that something doesnt exist because you havent perceived it (which is Atheism's precise position). This argument just came to an end didnt it?

musKeeto:

We experience hate, love and a gamut of other emotions as humans and sentient beings.. Love and hate can not exist on their own.. And atheism makes no claim as to how life originated.. Stop equating atheism with science. If you have a grouse with science because it invalidates some of the claims in your religious text, go blow up all laboratories, health care centers....

My point is Atheists believe in things they cant prove physically, like love and hate...so on what grounds do they criticize me for believing God because I havent proved his existence physically.

musKeeto:

So your EVIDENCE is ill-conceived conjectures...

Like your evidence for love and hate?

My evidence is not perceivable to you but it is to billions of people.

musKeeto:

Is air spirit? What is a spirit?

Precisely my point. If you dont know what a spirit is, claiming that a spirit (God) doesnt exist is illogical and dumb. No?

italo:


Precisely my point. If you dont know what a spirit is, claiming that a spirit (God) doesnt exist is illogical and dumb. No?

Precisely my point. The theist can not define a spirit in any way that wont leave him sounding like a child describing a ghost and so, he pushed the burden of proof to the atheist

Reyginus: Plaetton, I don't think it is a logical argument to assume that atheism is a default mental setting.
What it implies is that the human mind from the instant of conception has been tied to a belief in the absence of a deity. Atheism.
And then we begin to wonder how by default, a being will disagree in a concept he is yet to come across.
Something he is not aware of. How can that be.
Don't ever think that atheism will exist if there is no theism.
The argument fails from your premise.
Don't you think that for a being to have an unbelief in anything, as in, to be opposing any proposition, he must be aware of both the proposition and the opposition?

Your statement is based on the false premise that Atheism is 'opposition' of Theism. It is not. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in any god.
A child has no beliefs in any god though that does not qualify it for the tag 'atheist'. A child can, therefore, not be Jewish or Muslim for example. Now, imagine that religious tradition which ensures religion is passed from parent to child is nonexistent. Would we have religious adults? Most unlikely. We'll definitely have atheists and agnostics in the majority. That kind of proves that agnosticism is our default 'settings' as humans.

That's besides the point.

If you dont know what a spirit is, it is illogical and dumb to assert that it doesnt.

But also, it is illogical and dumb to assert that spirits do not exist, simply because theists cannot define it in a way that makes sense to you (although I dont care if my definition makes sense to you...like you wouldnt care if your definition of "blue" makes sense to a man blind from birth who is adamant that the blue colour doesnt exist).

Many people will admit that they cannot define love, yet they assert that it exists.

I presume we are still talking LOGIC, boy.

Logicboy03:



Precisely my point. The theist can not define a spirit in any way that wont leave him sounding like a child describing a ghost and so, he pushed the burden of proof to the atheist

Have you ever imagined the first ever religious person (whoever that is)?

He surely wasnt taught by his parents, yet he was religious.

How come?

Oluye0311:
Your statement is based on the false premise that Atheism is 'opposition' of Theism. It is not. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in any god.
A child has no beliefs in any god though that does not qualify it for the tag 'atheist'. A child can, therefore, not be Jewish or Muslim for example. Now, imagine that religious tradition which ensures religion is passed from parent to child is nonexistent. Would we have religious adults? Most unlikely. We'll definitely have atheists and agnostics in the majority. That kind of proves that agnosticism is our default 'settings' as humans.

italo: That's besides the point.

If you dont know what a spirit is, it is illogical and dumb to assert that it doesnt.

But also, it is illogical and dumb to assert that spirits do not exist, simply because theists cannot define it in a way that makes sense to you (although I dont care if my definition makes sense to you...like you wouldnt care if your definition of "blue" makes sense to a man blind from birth who is adamant that the blue colour doesnt exist).

Many people will admit that they cannot define love, yet they assert that it exists.

I presume we are still talking LOGIC, boy.

Is not only atheists that "claim" your xtian spirit doesnt exist; hindus,muslims,pagans,budhists etc also say they dont know this your spirit. how come this spirit is peculiar to only xtians?

nnofaith: The fact that we have more than 10,000. religions that are contradictory and mutually exclusive proves beyond reasonable doubt , that theism is illogical.

They all agree on one thing: the forces of the world are not limited to the physical realm.

You are saying: if people have contradictory views about something, that thing doesnt exist.

Again, illogical and dumb!

nnofaith: Is not only atheists that "claim" your xtian spirit doesnt exist; hindus,muslims,pagans,budhists etc also say they dont know this your spirit. how come this spirit is peculiar to only xtians?

Who mentioned "xtian spirit?"

I see you just want to digress. Why not talk 'beach soccer' then?

italo: Have you ever imagined the first ever religious person (whoever that is)?

He surely wasnt taught by his parents, yet he was religious.

How come?

To answer your question-

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”


― Mark Twain

italo: That's besides the point.

If you dont know what a spirit is, it is illogical and dumb to assert that it doesnt.

But also, it is illogical and dumb to assert that spirits do not exist, simply because theists cannot define it in a way that makes sense to you (although I dont care if my definition makes sense to you...like you wouldnt care if your definition of "blue" makes sense to a man blind from birth who is adamant that the blue colour doesnt exist).

Many people will admit that they cannot define love, yet they assert that it exists.

I presume we are still talking LOGIC, boy.

1) We all watch movies or tv in this 21st century.....any literate has an idea of what a spirit is
2) However, anyone who believes in spirits and tries to define it will only look like a fool because he is describing something that exists only in fiction/imagination.
3) I cant be spiritually blind, especially when you say so because your own spirituality does not exist on this earth.
4)I am yet to see someone who is in love but cant describe it. The attraction, the good feeling, the s.ex etc

italo:

They all agree on one thing: the forces of the world are not limited to the physical realm.

You are saying: if people have contradictory views about something, that thing doesnt exist.

Again, illogical and dumb!



Who mentioned "xtian spirit?"

I see you just want to digress. Why not talk 'beach soccer' then?

cool! i love beach soccer!

Logicboy03:


To answer your question-

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”


― Mark Twain

Religion is a scam! like every other scam, you have varrious versions!

holy spirit my ars.e

Logicboy03:
1) We all watch movies or tv in this 21st century.....any literate has an idea of what a spirit is

What has literacy or lack of it got to do with knowledge of spirits?

Logicboy03:

2) However, anyone who believes in spirits and tries to define it will only look like a fool because he is describing something that exists only in fiction/imagination.

Like love is a figment of your imagination?

Logicboy03:

3) I cant be spiritually blind, especially when you say so because your own spirituality does not exist on this earth.

How can you tell that my spirituality does not exist on this earth when you dont know what my spirituality is?

Logicboy03:

4)I am yet to see someone who is in love but cant describe it. The attraction, the good feeling, the s.ex etc

If you accept this as physical evidence that love exists, then you must accept prayers, worship, fasting etc as evidence that God exists.

I know you Atheists are experts at wild unreasoned and vulgar rants.

I concede that trophy to you.

But on fair reasoning and logic, you have said next to nothing.

nnofaith: Religion is a scam! like every other scam, you have varrious versions!

holy spirit my ars.e

nnofaith: cool! i love beach soccer!

Well, there is no physical evidence that Mark Twain was right...or that he even said this...or that he even existed, yet you believe it. Perhaps Mark Twain or whoever said or wrote this is the conman and you are the fool.

Logicboy03:


To answer your question-

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”


― Mark Twain

italo:

What has literacy or lack of it got to do with knowledge of spirits?



Like love is a figment of your imagination?



How can you tell that my spirituality does not exist on this earth when you dont know what my spirituality is?



If you accept this as physical evidence that love exists, then you must accept prayers, worship, fasting etc as evidence that God exists.

Yawn.


Guy, I dont have time to play with you.....unfortunately.


Fact remains that we are all born without a belief in God.

italo: I know you Atheists are experts at wild unreasoned and vulgar rants.

I concede that trophy to you.

But on fair reasoning and logic, you have said next to nothing.

you are just playing with words!
what is reasonable or logical about your delusion?

nnofaith: you are just playing with words!
what is reasonable or logical about your delusion?

That's why I ignored him..

We are all born seemingly without a belief in anything and everything.

God, humans, science, love, physical world, spirits etc

Because we are all born without a knowledge of anything and everything.

You are learning. It is safer to yawn than to spend your energy speaking without reasoning.

Logicboy03:
Yawn.


Guy, I dont have time to play with you.....unfortunately.


Fact remains that we are all born without a belief in God.

@italo, i'm coming back to respond to you. . .stay tuned.

It's no delusion.

Delusion is when you say that anything on which people hold contradictory versions does not exist.

People hold contradictory views about love, the universe and almost everything under the sun.

Delusion is YOU saying they all dont exist.

nnofaith: you are just playing with words!
what is reasonable or logical about your delusion?

Oh! I thought you ignored because our argument ended when you admitted that Atheism is "UNREASONABLE" since it holds a position that there is no God because Atheists have not perceived him.

I think its safer you IGNORE or YAWN like Logicboy.

Dont murder reason like Mr Troll is probably about to do.

musKeeto:
That's why I ignored him..

@italo
Do you even know the meaning of reason¿