Joshthefirst:
God created life. But he created it perfect, before man sinned, and life became imperfect and living things had to exploit other living things to survive.

Was man created perfect?

Logicboy03:


WHAT HE DID REMAINS WRONG. IS HE A MALU (COW) THAT CAN NOT REASON THAT A GIRL AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE IS NOT SE.XUALLY MATURE?


IN A DEVELOPED COUNTRY, HE WOULD BE ARRESTED FOR MOLESTATION....RELIGION IS NO EXCUSE FOR STOOPIDITY (EVEN THOUGH RELIGIOUS PEOPLE SEE IT AS SUCH)

Good. Guess I was wrong.

Joshthefirst: wow. So if I steal from a bank with the perspective of giving to the poor, I am not doing wrong? So if I murder a man because I'm jealous, I'm not doing wrong?
Smh.

The law is broken irrespective of whatever perspective a person has.
Rape is wrong. Irrespective of whatever intentions a person has, even inside him, his conscience tells him it is wrong to force anyone to have sexual intercourse.

.

Shut up.

When I'm wrong I admit I'm wrong. I've admitted I was wrong. You are the only one who doesn't do that. You keep claiming sin is sin despite me convincingly proving to you its not so.

aManFromMars:
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

Isaiah 45:7(HCSB)
I form light and create darkness,
I make success and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

(WEB)
7 I form the light,
and create darkness.
I make peace,
and create calamity.
I am Yahweh,
who does all these things.

(NLT)
7 I create the light and make the darkness.
I send good times and bad times.
I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

(NKJV)
7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things. ’

(GNT)
7 I create both light and darkness;
I bring both blessing and disaster.
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Zechariah 14:2
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

the book of zechariah is a prophetic vision. Nowhere in it does God condone rape.

aManFromMars:
Was man created perfect?

yes, God looked upon his creation, and everything was good. Yes. Man was created perfect.
Free from sin and the degredation that comes with it.

Joshthefirst: yes, God looked upon his creation, and everything was good. Yes. Man was created perfect.
Free from sin and the degredation that comes with it.

You talk like sin is a being. Sin isn't. You say Man was created Good and perfect, how then could Man sin?

aManFromMars:

You talk like sin is a being. Sin isn't. You say Man was created Good and perfect, how then could Man sin?

yes sin isn't a being, but man is not a machine. Man was created perfectly sinless without a sinful nature. But he was created in the image of God and has freewill. Man could sin because it was his choice to choose to either reject God or submit to him and accept him.

Joshthefirst: yes sin isn't a being, but man is not a machine. Man was created perfectly sinless without a sinful nature. But he was created in the image of God and has freewill. Man could sin because it was his choice to choose to either reject God or submit to him and accept him.

In your opinion, an ability to sin isn't a sign of imperfection?

Joshthefirst: yes sin isn't a being, but man is not a machine. Man was created perfectly sinless without a sinful nature. But he was created in the image of God and has freewill. Man could sin because it was his choice to choose to either reject God or submit to him and accept him.

If man was created without a sinful nature it will be impossible for man to sin.

You can't give what you don't have..freewill or not!!

aManFromMars:
In your opinion, an ability to sin isn't a sign of imperfection?

no. It is not.

GeneralShepherd:

If man was created without a sinful nature it will be impossible for man to sin.

You can't give what you don't have..freewill or not!!

no. In the beginning, man was created in the image of God. He chose to sin. And it has given us all sinful natures now.

This does not mean we are not responsible for our sins, because, though we now know our predicament, we refused to accept Gods solution to our imperfection in Christ Jesus.

Though the old nations knew wrongdoing was wrong, they persisted and refused to trust Gods salvation like abraham did.

Joshthefirst: no. It is not.

It isn't because the ability to sin comes from God. Goot, goot.

aManFromMars:
It isn't because the ability it sin comes from God. Goot, goot.

smh.

aManFromMars:
It isn't because the ability it sin comes from God. Goot, goot.

lol shaa. Lol. You threw me off guard with your reply.

Joshthefirst: lol shaa. Lol. You threw me off guard with your reply.

huh, must be a first..

Logicboy03:



Wow....this guy is funny!!!

The bible is now a science book that has his own classification of living things?

Oh and God didnt create animals abi? God didnt create lving things abi?

So it is man that created life in the form of bacteria, viruses and parasites




GUY, YOU ARE NOT THINKING

Dude, it is you who seem to not be thinking. You appear to be equating the existence of viruses, bacteria and other microorganisms to the existence of disease. Have you considered what might happen if none of these organisms existed in this world as you know it today? Have you considered that they have more to do in the scheme of things than cause disease? If your body wrre stripped of all the bacteria in and on it, would you survive?

Josh's point is not difficult to grasp at all. If man had not let sin in, all the thibgs that exist in this world would not be trying to destroy one another in their bid for survival. Relationships would be harmonious and symbiotic in nature. The Bible itself illustrates the type of world God had in mind and is bringing in after this whole scheme of things has been judged, it says that the lion and the lamb will lay down together and the young lion will eat grass, that a child will be able to play with deadly snakes and not be hurt, it says that in God's world, there shall nothing hurt or destroy.

So maybe it is you who should engage your brains a little.

Joshthefirst: no. It is not.

Smh ur thinking is pathetic

If we are to go by all ur post. Freewill wud b regarded as imperfection

rationalmind:

Shut up.

When I'm wrong I admit I'm wrong. I've admitted I was wrong. You are the only one who doesn't do that. You keep claiming sin is sin despite me convincingly proving to you its not so.

You can prove that "sin is not sin"?

How do you do that abeg? I'm very curious.

Ihedinobi:
You can prove that "sin is not sin"?

How do you do that abeg? I'm very curious.

You and Lb are on the same page. I've seen it all.

aManFromMars:
In your opinion, an ability to sin isn't a sign of imperfection?

Hmmm, this looks interesting. Is it your opinion that it is?

Ihedinobi:
You can prove that "sin is not sin"?

How do you do that abeg? I'm very curious.

Yes. I have proven that everyone has his own definition of sin which has its roots in their childhood indoctrination. There is no general universal agreed definition of sin. Having various sex.ual partners is to you a sin. To a taoist, it is not. Idolatory to you is a sin, To some its not even idolatory. They are simply worshipping their own supreme being.

Ihedinobi:
Hmmm, this looks interesting. Is it your opinion that it is?

Yeah.

macof:

Smh ur thinking is pathetic

If we are to go by all ur post. Freewill wud b regarded as imperfection

if you would think well enough, you'd realize that freewill is an attribute.

macof:

Smh ur thinking is pathetic

If we are to go by all ur post. Freewill wud b regarded as imperfection

How so? How do his posts suggest such a thing?

Joshthefirst: if you would think well enough, you'd realize that freewill is an attribute.

Yh midgets have height issues-that's an attribute that points imperfection

aManFromMars:
You and Lb are on the same page. I've seen it all.

Lol. How? Me and Lb on the same page?! Make him no hear am o!

macof:

Yh midgets have height issues-that's an attribute that points imperfection

Smh.
Freewill is an attribute of man. Man was created good. But he chose to sin.
Others choose to follow God and not rebel against him.

Joshthefirst:
Smh.
Freewill is an attribute of man. Man was created good. But he chose to sin.
Others choose to follow God and not rebel against him.

You know that freewill leads to chaos. soldiers MUST obey.

rationalmind:

Yes. I have proven that everyone has his own definition of sin which has its roots in their childhood indoctrination. There is no general universal agreed definition of sin. Having various sex.ual partners is to you a sin. To a taoist, it is not. Idolatory to you is a sin, To some its not even idolatory. They are simply worshipping their own supreme being.

Bros, proving that A defines a given word in one way and B defines it another is not quite the same as proving that the word is not the word, wouldn't you agree?

But I see what you meant. Let's follow your thought a little, shall we? The Greco-Romans were very generous in their spiritual worship. They had a large pantheon of gods and goddesses. They would add yours if it was spectacular enough, but they still took issue with people who worshipped gods outside their own pantheon. That was why they attacked Christians in Ephesus.

That is, both the Christian and the pagan agree that idolatry is idolatry, they just disagree on which god is the idol and which the true God.

Let's take your other example of sexxual immorality. The Taoist may in fact consider multiple sexxual partners as not only not an evil thing but a good thing (can't confirm that now) and the Christian may consider it an evil thing, but the two agree that there is such a thing as evil and that sexxual immorality is evil. They just disagree on what acts may be called sexxual immorality and what acts may not.

So everyone has a concept of evil or sin and everyone agrees on what it conceptually is. What people may disagree with is what to call wvil and what not to call evil. Unless Taoists do not believe that there is no such thinf as sexxual immorality, they would be quite offended if you told them that they were immoral people for keeping multiple sexxual partners and probably try to show you how keeping multiple sexual partners is not sin. In other words, they agree that sin is sin, but not that keeping multiple sexxual partners is sin.

rationalmind:

Yes. I have proven that everyone has his own definition of sin which has its roots in their childhood indoctrination. There is no general universal agreed definition of sin. Having various sex.ual partners is to you a sin. To a taoist, it is not. Idolatory to you is a sin, To some its not even idolatory. They are simply worshipping their own supreme being.

i get what you are trying to say, its the core of my atheistic beliefs, to me everything is random, evil and good are sides of the same coin, it is we humans that define good and bad, nature doesnt care. a lion killing an antelope is not good or evil, rainfall watering agric plants is not good or evil, typhoon destroying properties and killing pple is not good or evil, it is nature in its randomness.

Joshthefirst:
Smh.
Freewill is an attribute of man. Man was created good. But he chose to sin.
Others choose to follow God and not rebel against him.

Well, I find it ridiculous that God will create man knowing fully well he will eat the forbidden fruit and still plant the tree anyway!!

Secondly, project man according to christian belief in my opinion is a failure!!

Why? If I were to develop a car the first products will be prototypes(Adam and Eve) if they failed the field tests,why would I continue production knowing my products were dead on arrival.

If Adam and eve who were direct products from God failed,how does God expect derivatives of that product to become perfect?!

And since God is all knowing He planned all this from time immemorial from creation,to the fall and the names of all that will go to hell.

But then God doesn't exists,because if there was a God,his logic will be airtight and not filled with the contradictions in the bible.