babystathopoulos: We all need to be realistic with life as it is not as we have in our imaginations. Don't be decieve that you can have it all(especially women) when you have a demanding career and the same time run a successful home. There is nothing like "Balancing", body nor be firewood. Is either the husband or the kids or both are paying the price. When the man don't complain is because he is a good cheat.
My advice for men is; don't expect any woman to change or suppress her career because of you. Chose a woman that fits into your future plan.
My advice to women; is a good thing to have a dream and pursue and get to the highest point. But if you want to be overambitious to try and avoid the marriage road. Marriage is not for everyone.

jhidey08: since u knw ur responsibilities as a woman do u think u can mix those two tins nd av a "pass mark" in dem? Wait first, let's get dis ryt first, wot's ur definition of a demanding career? 4rm which hours of d day till when do such women work? Gimme an example of such work?

carefreewannabe: You say so because you were brought up this way and because this is what you are used to.

carefreewannabe:
A father and a mother are EQUALLY IMPORTANT. No parent is more or less important. Children need both.

carefreewannabe:
The role of a mother and a father do NOT have to be the same but they can be the same. They can also be different.

carefreewannabe:
There is nothing wrong with the traditonal roles of women staying at home with little children and a man working BUT there is also NOTHING wrong with a role switch, where a woman works and the father stays at home.

carefreewannabe:
I know many couples in Germany who switch their traditional roles and nobody disrespects them for it because they do what ist BEST for them and their family at a given moment.

carefreewannabe:
It is not my win but I am very happy. I am about to leave the country for holidays but thinking it would be better to stay here now as the whole country is partying

honeric01:

What is your idea role for a father and a mother?

What are the major responsibilities for mothers
What are the major responsibilities for fathers?

Maybe people are mixing up your point of view because you haven't been clear with them on what should be "proper" in your view?

cococandy: Maybe that post wasn't self explanatory as I thought.
Life is about choices in my opinion. If I have a family and my career is getting in the way, I'll have to be very willing to give up my career for my kids and not otherwise. In that case,it is MY CHOICE and a happy one too. It won't be bondage because it is my first choice.and no you're not in bondage because you WILLINGLY CHOSE to make those choices

But if I so want my career and can't have it because I lack the support I need from my partner,then it is bondage.
It is indeed bondage for someone to live without what they want not because they chose to sacrifice it but because they were made to give it up.
That's where I'm coming from.



That said I think everyone here agrees on going for those who have the same ideology as them

All that about role reversal and having it all isn't for me right?
Because I didn't insinuate any such thing.
For someone to take on a career and her home and make the best she can out of both she has to work harder/smarter than she normally would.same for a man. So yes something gives and that's not having it all.we agree on that.

Sorry I can't go to that thread now.

Agreed that a mother is more needed at the infant stage of a child's life but that's not where child raising stops. After that stage,it's both hands on deck. And all this has nothing IMO to do with bathing/ feeding chores. More like being a steady presence in the child's life.

.

TV01:
Nope, years of anthropological experience clearly shows this. At the different stages of a childs development, the importance of the input from the parents differ. More crucially the difference between male & female input is key to a psychologically well balanced child.

Certainly we have children who do well despite this. But those are exceptions not the rule. Are you trying to sell us "interchangeability of the sexes?"

I don't believe anyone here has disputed this? I certainly didn't.


So you are selling "interchangeability". Can men give birth or breastfeed? Do men undergo the same physiological and psycholigical changes that women do before, during and after chldbirth? Are the responses and instincts of Mothers, Fathers and children in relation too one another merely learned responses?

The evident truth is simply that they are different, that's why we have men and women. And they are patently not the same - by design. Being treated equally, does not demand equal outcomes or forced equivalence. Not unless you make an ideology of it . It's just a segue into homosex and other ill-considered re-engineering initiatives.

There may be instances where it makes the best of a situation or even makes sense tactically, but for the vast majority our wiring (not how they were brought up) would make the dynamic of such an arrangement very difficult.

As above.
Would you happily enter into that arrangement?

Enjoy your holiday wherever you go. The Germans love Turkey


TV

Ngokafor:


...I think the saying 'to each their own' should be the focal point in this discussion.The peculiar family dynamics we find ourselves in determines whether or not some ambitious women like most of us on this thread can pull off pursing our chosen careers at full-throttle,especially when the marriage and kids are still very young..

...for instance,if one's hubby has an equally time- consuming and demanding work-schedule.. who then should 'step-down' for the other in this case huh?.Realistically i believe the woman should be the one to give in,ambition or no ambition untill the kids are older..dont get me wrong,i am not advocating for a house-wife role here(not that it is such a crime) but the kind of job that can give her time to attend to her home because most men cannot handle it like a woman would..sad but true.

..The truth is that the more successful we are in our chosen careers or even businesses the more demanding in terms of our time it becomes..marathon meetiings,trips within the country and beyond on short notices to meet up with one client or another,import and export issues..the list is endless..therefore leaving it for later for women is more advisable in my humble opinion.

...Dora Akunyili(RIP) and other powerful women we as women look up to did not become Ministers and all with their children as babies or toddlers...They all have grown-up children so it is a lot easier...but like a said earlier,to each their own.

carefreewannabe:

Is being a father a secondary role?

carefreewannabe:

I asked you a question, what is, according to you, the primary responsibility of a woman?

Why do you refuse to answer this question?

carefreewannabe:

I don't stick to fixed roles. I believe in pragmatism, flexibility and personal choice.

I do neither rely on medieval teachings on gender roles nor on the roles people had in the Stone Age.

I support freedom and different ways of running a family.

If a couple chooses to stick to the traditional role of a woman being a housewife and the man the breadwinner, fine with me.

If a couple decides that it is better that the woman goes to work and the man stays at home to take care of the house and the children, fine with me.

If a couple decides to share all responsibilites, fine with me.

I will NOT let ANYONE decide for me what to do with my life based on my gender.

carefreewannabe:
Years of anthropological experience show that the most traditional countries are the most backward. This is what years of traditional experience show.

carefreewannabe:
Talking about input, explain to me what a father cannot give a child at a certain stage except for breast-feeding.

carefreewannabe:
When it comes to raising children both parents are equally qualified to do so unless they are retarded and therefore a danger to the child.

carefreewannabe:
Apart from breat-feeding, there is no other argument why men cannot raise children. And as for breast-feeding, there are solutions too. If you don't like them, let the mother stay with the child till she finishes breast-feeding and then take over. Note that some women are not able to breast-feed at all.

carefreewannabe:
By the way, medical research chows that men also undergo physiological changes when their partners are pregnant, provided they live together and are close.

carefreewannabe:
Being different gives NOBODY the right to tell me what I am SUPPOSSED to do with my life. Being different does not mean that I cannot be a doctor, teacher, CEO, scientist, lawyer or whatever. Being different does not mean that I am less qualified and more st. upid to make money. Being different does not mean that I have to enjoy house chores and that you are UNABLE to do them.

carefreewannabe: As long as Nigerians will not accept that educated working women do the country a lot of good, there will be very little progress.

carefreewannabe:
Working women → more money → more shopping → demand for more goods and services → more jobs
→ more prosperity

carefreewannabe:
Just because something is difficult to achieve, does not mean it should not be tried to.

carefreewannabe:
I would unhappily enter an arrangement, in which my role is restricted to staying at home and in which my partner thinks that the house chores are the primary role of a woman.

carefreewannabe:
Am not German.

Ngokafor:


...I think the saying 'to each their own' should be the focal point in this discussion.The peculiar family dynamics we find ourselves in determines whether or not some ambitious women like most of us on this thread can pull off pursing our chosen careers at full-throttle,especially when the marriage and kids are still very young..

...for instance,if one's hubby has an equally time- consuming and demanding work-schedule.. who then should 'step-down' for the other in this case huh?.Realistically i believe the woman should be the one to give in,ambition or no ambition untill the kids are older..dont get me wrong,i am not advocating for a house-wife role here(not that it is such a crime) but the kind of job that can give her time to attend to her home because most men cannot handle it like a woman would..sad but true.

..The truth is that the more successful we are in our chosen careers or even businesses the more demanding in terms of our time it becomes..marathon meetiings,trips within the country and beyond on short notices to meet up with one client or another,import and export issues..the list is endless..therefore leaving it for later for women is more advisable in my humble opinion.

...Dora Akunyili(RIP) and other powerful women we as women look up to did not become Ministers and all with their children as babies or toddlers...They all have grown-up children so it is a lot easier...but like a said earlier,to each their own.

bukatyne:

And what job is 6 - 9 or do you mean 9 - 6/ 9 - 5

Depending on logistics, when you are working a 7 - 4 job, you might not be able to dress your kids up for school

Tannie:

I've seen women leave theiir house by 6am and return by 9pm but I'm not against it, whatever rocks their boat. But I don't want to be that kind of mother, I believe I've come this far in life because my mum was there for my siblings and I (she's a teacher) and I want to be there for my kids.
N/B I'm a career woman but I will glady make amends for my family till my children comes of age.

bukatyne:

Thanks

How are you and bros

carefreewannabe:

I think, you are right.

BizBloke:

Exactly, Damiso.

cococandy: I'm fine thanks
Yes I am she
Yes this is a new ID
Old one is dead

bukatyne:

Like I said in the first post I made on this thread, there is a difference between a mother delibrately working late in the name of building a career and a mother leaving early and getting home late because of logistics.

An average job is 8 - 5 in Nigeria

Logistics now determine when you leave/get home

I agree that parents should make ample time for their kids

remsonik: I would ve a hard time settling with such a man cos I and my siblings are raised to be very ambitious and there were no barriers or limitations cos I am a girl. My dad was doing his private business while my mum was in the civil service. My mom rose to the top and she retired and my dad kept pushing her to achieve more,get a doctorate degree and rise to the pinnacle of her career.
If the man is insecured that's when he starts feeling his wife is over ambitious. A woman doesn't need to abandon or limit her dreams cos of a man. If she indeed is lazy even limiting her dreams won't make the home any better.
We didn't ve maids while growing up but my mom was a homemaker and my dad assisted her too.
My parents have been married for close to 40 years.

cococandy: Any body who's a parent should know their family comes first. Be he husband or wife.
A man who makes all the money in the world without being available for his kids is still considered a failure as a father.
Kids who grew up with absentee fathers know this too. That no amount of money can make up for the parents deep and intimate involvement in their lives.

This mindset is what makes mothers more celebrated than fathers because despite all the money the kids are more bonded with who was available for them.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being ambituous be you man or woman. But a balance is necessary for both parties. And curtailing your ambitions as a woman isn't the answer. That's bondage.
Knowing how to make the best of your time is the answer.

Who's talking about African women in particular here?
Do African women raise better kids than other races? Look at Nigeria as a case study and look at other societies and tell me how relegating yourselves to the background or curtailing your ambitions as african women has helped your country.

I still maintain it is better for the kids if both parents make time for them. Excusing fathers' absence in the name of bread winning is almost the same thing as a single mom raising her kids alone with the father paying child support.

TV01:
What has this to do with with the point in question? Plus it's a non-sequitur. Are "forward" countries wothout "traditions"? Out of interest, please point us towards this illuminating research !

Fathers are not wired to provide the same degree/level of pre and post natal input to a childs life. It's not just care, it's development as well.

You are off-point, nobody made this claim. The point is that they are at some points differently equipped and therefore not interchangeable. And that fact should be considered when making decisions with the best long-term interest of the family in mind. Again, it's not just care, it's also oprimal development. Otherwise househelps/servants would obviate this conversation.

So lets take breast-feeding out of the equation. As soon as a child is born a father can take care of a child as well as it's mother? Please note my above responses.

Excellent point. And does this research show that the changes are exactly the same? Or that the changes are not unique to either sex and therefore meaning both sexes are not actually required?

By your argument, two men can have a child by surrogate, take delivery of the child at birth and that is exactly the same and just as good as a male/female family. Yes?

Nobody has claimed any of the above. And very little of it actually speaks to this discussion.
And for the little that does, I do house chores !

Nigerias progress - or lack of - has very little to do with it's family structure. Or it's educational provision to the sexes. Except for the north which I don't know about, in the rest of the country there is hardly any difference.

And even if this is true, does it mean better families or child nurture. Presumably the higher rates of divorce, single-parent homes, teen pregnancy, suicide, drug use, sexual violence, porn addictions etc. are all indicators of progress to you?

Don't be overly personal, nobody is being prescriptive or or even advisory. We are just presenting our points of view. Your choices remain personal.

I appreciate that Frau CW. But Turkey is still a great holiday destination !


TV

jhidey08: Dis carefreewannabe is d kinda lady dat'll draw out tym table 4 doing household chores between herself and her husband because dey're both working. Can any1 tell define "a demanding career" 4me? 4rm which tym of d day till when do u av 2 work? Wot r d examples of such careers? I tink dis would make us understand ourselves beta.

honeric01:

Sorry, i asked for your own idea settings which i am yet to get, can you please be precise? thanks

When you say freedom, freedom to do what? anything in the family as you wish or?

jhidey08: u're an adult and I don't need 2 spell out everytin 2 u. Since u already said u knw it, I tink dere is no point in saying stories again.