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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John (81472 Views)
The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult / Special Thanks To Sir John, Enigma, Kunleoshob And Nuclearboy May God Bless U!! / The Truth About Christ Embassy Healing School (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by mbaemeka(m): 10:39pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
trustman: William James Sidis could talk at 2 months and before he was 7 had taught himself 2 Languages. 9 he attained the best entrance score for Harvard but was turned down because of His age. Got a position in Rice University as a visiting professor aged 11 and was confounding Mathematics Professors in Harvard with 4th dimensional concepts same age and time. Hope you catch my drift- even he was an ordinary man like you. Jesus could do no single miracle till he received the Holy Spirit at age 30. Until then any attributes of divinity like his prodigious wisdom at age 12 were purely coincidental. The fact that he DID NOT POSSESS the sin nature meant amongst other things that his physical as well as mental and other capacities were untainted in any way. The only reason for his not possessing the sin nature according to scripture was because he was going to be the sin-sacrifice and the sin-sacrifice capable of saving the world had to have sinless blood. That's why he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. So I reiterate: Jesus was in a class of his own. Therefore HE DID NOT NEED TO GROW HIS FAITH in order to see that his miracles keep improving. Jesus functioned 100 percent as a man. He did so to show that what he could do, other men could. That's why he berated his disciples on occasions when they couldn't do what he could. If Jesus was functioning as "God or a class of his own" then he would not have needed to pray. Who was he praying to or for what purpose? Does Jesus still pray now? Mark 1:35King James Version (KJV) 35 And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed. Luke 5:16King James Version (KJV) 16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed. Luke 18:1King James Version (KJV) 18 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; Who will God need to pray to? Note also that before this incident here at Nazareth he had healed various diseases including demon possession. So there is no basis to claim that the quality of his miracle kept IMPROVING or that, like you claim, as a result “That’s suggestive of a growing faith”. That would be your own interpretation of the events. Thrash! Before the case of the demoniac in Chapter 5 that you made reference to look at Chapter 1 verse 21. Mark 1:21King James Version (KJV) 21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught. at verse 23 he then commanded demons to leave then his fame spread as a result verse 28. Before chapters 2-5 could happen. Answer one question for once. Between raising Lazarus from the dead or resurrecting himself which was greater? John 5:20King James Version (KJV) 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. Explain this verse. Why would Jesus say something if it wasn't so? John 14:2King James Version (KJV) 2 . . . if it were not so, I would have told you. . . Do you people study at all? Did Jesus’ non-performance of much miracle at Nazareth stem from his response to their lack of faith in him to perform miracles or rejection of him as the Messiah? I think the more obvious answer is the latter What rubbish is this? Look at Mark's account Mark 6:4-6New International Version (NIV) 4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 [color=#990000]He was amazed at their lack of faith. Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. or Luke's Luke 4:24New International Version (NIV) 24 “Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. They rejected him in Nazareth as a Prophet. The majority of Israel (especially represented by their rulers) rejected him as the Messiah not just Nazareth and this happened much later. Even Capernum rejected him as the Messiah but they accepted him as a Prophet. His disciples didn't know he was the Messiah until later too when he revealed it to them after Peter's confession. Stop making disingenuous claims. Jesus’ miracles were not formally arranged. It did not take those healed days or weeks to be healed as a result of their needing to increase their faith to be healed. There is no record that anyone he healed came back to say he ‘lost’ his healing for any reason. Mark 1 32 That evening after sunset the people brought to Jesus all the sick and demon-possessed. 33 The whole town gathered at the door, 34 and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was Don't speak when you don't know or have not properly researched. Jesus had started teaching here in Capernaum and had healed a few people in the synagogue so far, so his fame spread far and wide. Then that evening the WHOLE town gathered at his door and they brought ALL the sick and demon-possessed. This wasn't spontaneous. Secondly, casting demons out doesn't require teachings per se. We cast out demons without much ado or ceremony. But when it comes to healing people the teachings of faith (concerning healings are necessary). There is another class of miracles called "creative miracles" and they are different too. If you walk in the power of God (as you should) you would know. You say there is no record of anyone that Jesus healed losing their healing? Well there is no record that they all remained healed or didn't die. But we can tell from Jesus' teaching to the impotent man at Bethsaida that such was possible and he said why. 14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” If Jesus could tell someone that he just healed that something worse could happen to him if he kept sinning then it means the miracles weren't irreversible per se- and this is Jesus we are talking about. He would either be speaking from experience or from wisdom. Pastor Chris has healed people impromptu before in the Airport and even in between services on a normal Wednesday or Sunday service. |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Topgainer: 10:49pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
@ Gombs, Mba Emeka you are really determined to preserve this dishonorable business of yours perhaps your cunning has brought you much gain. In all your responses, it is very clear you have been busy evading the questions about the credibility of your organization. Let me make it clear to you that your present schedule here is beyond your capacity to handle. Nowhere had Sir John denied the occurrence of miracles in life, he had only brought to the fore what many already know that the healing ministry of Pastor Chris Oyakhilome as well as the lifestyle he has impacted into most of his followers left much to be desired when compared to the Biblical truths , the things you guys do at Christ Embassy is so manipulative But don't over stress your hackers, lawyers, thugs, image sellers simply for fear of losing members. If you study your bible well False Teachers Will Always Have Adherents to preside over, I can guarantee you'll have new members just as the ones who are beginning to see you guys for who you are, are EXITING 5 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by SirJohn(m): 10:51pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
mbaemeka: I posted a video of how W V Grant and Peter Poppoff was exposed by James Randi, these were men who supposedly worked miracles and displayed exceptional gifts of the spirit, yet they were exposed for who they are: scam artists. What is more disturbing is not that they were exposed but the level certain loyalists are ready to put their lives on the line for a belief they have been made to embrace. I suggest you watch that video again, it will explain more of what I mean. Delusion is the word I challenged a lot of those phoney testimonies here on NL and even took Joagbaje on a challenge when he bragged about a woman he supposedly healed of blindness, it later didn't go down well as Joagbaje accused me of lying after the woman I interviewed on phone told me she was never blind. The whole of that exchange is still here on NL for reference purposes. mbaemeka: mbaemeka: Those were not just pictures from the healing school website, they were people I saw and stayed with for two weeks who later ended up in borrowed wheelchairs only when pastor chris ministered to them, a fact you and all of christ embassy have not been able to explain. As for the case of Kenyan28, when she came in 2010 shouting about her healing, I wasn't moved; I knew she wasn't telling the whole truth like most people who want to promote healing claims. in fact below is a post I did at that time when she came ranting: SirJohn 1:03pm On Jun 30, 2010 : When eventually time revealed the truth, I was able to reach her on phone and that was when I asked her to tell me how she tested negative and she told me that she and a couple of other people were directed to a hospital by a healing school staff and they all tested negative there. she never bothered to test somewhere else afterwards. She is still alive today and I can call on her to come reveal more. mbaemeka: Sometimes I wonder how it is difficult for you to understand something so simple: I was at the healing school between May 5th 2009 to June 3rd 2009. A period in which though I observed several things, I fought with the thoughts and like you, tried to make excuses for the things I saw. I left in November after my meeting with Pst Sola Olubode, I don't know if I mentioned anywhere that my Sis was a Pastor in the ministry, in fact, She was Pst Sola Olubode's PA and in charge of partnership in the branch. She eventually resigned and left the ministry too several days after I left. mbaemeka: Bro, I have moved on, but very much aware of happenings around me not just in CE. I don't know how this thread and the other one made it to FP recently. Believe me, I would have cared less about it but on a second thought decided to comment. I still have loads of CE friends both within and outside Nigeria so its a no-brainer how I know certain things by default. mbaemeka: You aint seen nothing bro 7 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by WinsomeX: 11:22pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
There is one line on mbaemeka response to SJ on why the thread was resurrected and the seeming witch hunt (my words) of Pastor Chris. I restored that thread, not SJ. I take responsibility for it. However it was not to witch hunt anyone but to prove a point. Prior to coming to nl, I knew next to nothing about CE. I considered them a bunch of noise makers and that impression has hardly changed even till now. I once visited a nlander in my city and he told me of SJ thread on Pastor Chris. I located the thread but did not read beyond the first page. Like most people, the fifty pages was too much for me to read. When the story of Pastor Chris divorce broke and following the bit I had learnt on CE on nl, I decided to endure the long read. I did not have the intention of opening a thread then. When I was on page 3 or thereabout, I realized that the whole thread was playing out like a movie script. I then decided on opening this thread for three reason 1. Like I said in the OP, to help people compare the present Chris and the 2008 Chris: nothing has changed 2. To summarise the thread. I would read the 50 pages and glean the important posts for others to read. I completed it, though with interference and some delay, in 10 pages. 3. For ease of reading for myself. I was literally reading the thread and removing the important posts one after another. The coming of the Kenyan was actually the crowning of the story. It is however OK if anyone thinks I am witch hunting Chris. I believe I have made my point. 5 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Tos87(m): 11:24pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
SirJohn you are good...the mannerism you apply while stating your claims is amazing. For me, right from abinitio I never got hooked when ever the pastor with relaxed heir hit ma TV screen. Weldone Bro. 4 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by dare2think: 11:28pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
shdemidemi:) Why do you think the entire country is in a state of perpetual darkness (and I mean that literally). The religious and political elites have one thing in common, Greed. They get greedy for power and money. It is the driving force of underdevelopment in Africa and Nigeria in particular. Conscience and integrity is nowhere to be found. The two institutions, political and religion, are very dependent on one another when it comes to the total control of the populace. Hence you see the Charlatans wining and dining with together. I believe Nigerians deserve them and the destruction they bring. They choose to believe in the folly of these men and turn a blind eye to their deviousness. 2 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by mbaemeka(m): 11:37pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
Topgainer: @ Gombs, Mba Emeka you are really determined to preserve this dishonorable business of yours perhaps your cunning has brought you much gain. In all your responses, it is very clear you have been busy evading the questions about the credibility of your organization. This discourse is above you. I don't know why you are losing sleep about a ministry that means nothing to you. Stop trolling, I have been on NL ever before this thread was started as a guest and I read all the encounters on the parent thread. Let me just shut you up once and for all. Besides, don't bother talking about scriptures with me, I can perceive you know nothing in that regard. SirJohn(m): 9:16am On Jul 11, 2010 Compare what he said above with what Jesus promised (and Jesus never lied) but an unstable man would not know this. John 14:12New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. Is science, engineering greater than what Jesus did? Do Most of the people who pioneered the recent scientific discoveries qualify as "he who believes in me?" Go and sleep. Losing members? What a joke. Jesus lost many members in a fell swoop. Paul lost members including Demas (one who had seen all the miracles wrought by Paul). John lost members etc. Losing divisive members is good. It shows growth. 2 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Tos87(m): 12:01am On Sep 16, 2014 |
SirJohn(m): 9:16am On Jul 11, 2010 But I am of the opinion that we may never be able to see some of the bible time miracles in our day for very obvious reasons : there is a very large knowledge gap between the old times and now, medical science has greatly improved since then and so has engineering, arts, politics etc. I believe these are all workings of God. @Mbaemeka...there is nothing wrong there. gosshhhh!!!...honestly you av got no iota of point anymore. Why don't you forget that this thread ever surfaced. 3 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by mbaemeka(m): 12:33am On Sep 16, 2014 |
SirJohn: Delusion works either ways. I am either deluded or you are. I read your exchange with Joagbaje and I trust his account more as you have changed your stories on so many occasions. The lady in question didn't expect your call at first and then she denied everything to you including ever having any eye- defect. When Joagbaje told her who you were she told you she was healed of blindness but you came on NL and claimed she said it was only an eye-defect with her having "peppery" sensations. Joagbaje came back to say she vehemently called you a liar for claiming that. Much later, when Joagbaje offered you more phone numbers to verify other cases you said you were no longer interested in numbers again. Don't you think it is delusive to stay where you are and claim every other person is lying when you could be even more guilty than they? Those were not just pictures from the healing school website, they were people I saw and stayed with for two weeks who later ended up in borrowed wheelchairs only when pastor chris ministered to them, a fact you and all of christ embassy have not been able to explain. Tell the world where you got the pictures from. I am itching to hear it. There are spare wheelchairs and stretchers in the HS many of which were left behind by people who got healed in previous sessions and decided to donate it. It is a known fact that some conditions get worse even while at the HS and as such some people were placed on those wheelchairs and stretchers to aid them before they could meet the MOG. Some other conditions had people who couldn't really walk well but the lines would have looked disorganized if someone was there to help them stand or back them. Putting them on the wheelchairs only makes it more "Packaged" or organized. Many CE members told you this but did you listen to them? No. When eventually time revealed the truth, I was able to reach her on phone and that was when I asked her to tell me how she tested negative and she told me that she and a couple of other people were directed to a hospital by a healing school staff and they all tested negative there. she never bothered to test somewhere else afterwards. She is still alive today and I can call on her to come reveal more Concerning Kenya28, I don't want to mention her too much because I feel for her but she got bitter and made a lot of contradictory statements which one can understand. If you would be honest with yourself you would know without a doubt that she got healed by faith and lived as so for more than a year (symptoms free). This is apart from testing negative. Coupled with that she got married and had a child. If her husband tested negative isn't that a miracle in itself or how did they create their child? This is what she said much later when she was angry. Compare it to what she said much earlier (Please take note that she said Pastor Chris never ministered to her) Kenyan28: 8:29am On Nov 01, 2012 Kenyan 28: Kenyan 28: Kenyan 28: So if you claim she made these posts out of excitement then I can say she made the other one's based on anger. Either way she testified that Pastor Chris didn't touch her and that albeit in the past drugs had made her gain weight and alleviate her symptoms for short-phases they never once tested negative. She even said that NO ONE told her to go there. So I wonder who is lying between you and her? Sometimes I wonder how it is difficult for you to understand something so simple: I am sure you meant 2008. Now you say you left in November of 2008. Fine. Please explain this: SirJohn(m): 8:53pm On Dec 04, 2008 Several months back from Dec 04 was when you stopped singing the song with Joy. That was when you suspected the scam. So any other thing you did from June till November was to prove your suspicions and not to find out any truth. That's why you are hysterical when others say they went there and got healed. You even refused to accept the testimony of Omopastor that said his daughter was healed for 8 years and is still healed till date 10 years after. Bro, I have moved on, but very much aware of happenings around me not just in CE. I don't know how this thread and the other one made it to FP recently. Believe me, I would have cared less about it but on a second thought decided to comment. I still have loads of CE friends both within and outside Nigeria so its a no-brainer how I know certain things by default. Good to know. I don't think CE Ojo misses you or your sister- Pastor Sola is still staging-miracles for free and for Jesus. 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by mbaemeka(m): 12:37am On Sep 16, 2014 |
Tos87: SirJohn(m): 9:16am On Jul 11, 2010 If you can't answer the concomitant question just log off. You are in the click of those who judge someone by just seeing them on TV and you are talking to me about an "Iota of a point". The people that go to the HS don't you think they tried all medical technologies available to them first before seeking other options because of its failure? 4 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Nobody: 2:17am On Sep 16, 2014 |
mbaemeka: Pastor joeagbaje or whosever you are, you can write millions of essays defending your church but THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE! 1 Like |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by trustman: 4:14am On Sep 16, 2014 |
mbaemeka: I have in the past pointed out your attitude which to say the least is VERY NEGATIVE. You actually attach your faults on others and blame them for it. You THINK you ALWAYS have a superior argument. This is expressed by your OBSESSION to fire back at every comment against your position. You will do so with this my post. Have you ever heard of the Hypostatic union? Simply put it the teaching that Jesus Christ was BOTH undiminished deity and true humanity IN ONE person for ever. While he was on earth he was what I just described above. Now is there ANY other human being that can be described in the same way? Maybe you guys know. I would say NO ONE. When you therefore belittle the UNIQUENESS of Jesus Christ one wonders which Christ you believe. When the angel announced in Luke 2: 11-:For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." was that baby in a manger the savior and Christ the Lord or just like any other human being? What sustained his humanity from there till and then through his public ministry? His human will-power? According to you it had to be because you NOT ONLY compared him with a prodigy you claim "Jesus could do no single miracle till he received the Holy Spirit at age 30. Until then any attributes of divinity like his prodigious wisdom at age 12 were purely coincidental." COINCIDENCE? So to you the workings of God in Jesus were just a matter of CHANCE. I want to ASSUME you agree he had[b] NO SIN NATURE[/b]. If for that FACT alone he still in your estimation DOES NOT qualify to be in a class of his own then I wonder what you guys are thinking. Except like I said you just want to 'puncture' every 'opponent' points whether good or bad. So you sincerely think that as at the time he started his ministry he still had TO GROW HIS FAITH [/b]that is why his miracles [b]KEPT IMPROVIN[/b]G? In spite of what he proved himself to be at 12 years? Did Jesus [b]SOLICIT for people to be brought to him in order for him to perform miracles? The answer is No. That is what is meant by the fact that Jesus' miracles WERE NOT formally arranged. That people brought the sick to him in droves or individually DOES NOT remove from the fact that he DID NOT set up a healing school OR even set apart specific times in his day or week solely for miracle working. They just come in the ordinary course of his business. So check this out again: Jesus’ miracles were not formally arranged. It did not take those healed days or weeks to be healed as a result of their needing to increase their faith to be healed. There is no record that anyone he healed came back to say he ‘lost’ his healing for any reason. If we come to an account as this: 14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” The question should be 'What is SOMETHING GREATER that can happen to this man? Greater sickness or what? Still on this issue of 'greater', when Jesus said greater works what did he mean? Are we to look at 'works' from the perspective of miracles alone? Can any single man since Christ claim that he alone has done greater works than Christ did? So how is that verse to be understood? So, What percentage of those who come to the healing school eventually get healed? How much do the procedure for healing there line up with what we have in the New Testament? 4 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by LambanoPeace: 7:10am On Sep 16, 2014 |
diluminati: What damage? You must be a learner! This one was nothing like the NBC and Atmosphere for miracles saga, plus the money laundering accusation...aha, and the visit to T.B Joshua's church. Wait and see, by December, re read this your post, and I'm sure you'd be ashamed you typed so. Weirdly, Seun gave an excuse for taking these threads to the front page, he said for 'facts' to be thoroughly discussed by Nairalanders, I wonder why threads of money laundering, the said masturrbation teaching video, NBC vs AFM, etc weren't also taken to from page. Anyways, mbaemeka I killing this, he reminds me of those ruthless wall street lawyers. 5 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Kenny4lyfe(m): 7:12am On Sep 16, 2014 |
PastorKun: You mean the truth that you and your cohorts were instrumental to that Kenya lady's lost of her healing; changing her situation from bad to worse due to your self-styled godly zeal that seems to deny the power in the Gospel of Christ? Spare me your boring sermon jare! By the way, I read your response to joagbaje's video on Bro. Jeff's healing. That testimony must have gotten you really pissed and you wished it was a nollywood movie! E pele O! 3 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by PastorKun(m): 8:32am On Sep 16, 2014 |
Kenny4lyfe: So we are now responsible for Kenyan28's loss of purported 'healing' your god must be really weak for mere mortals like us to reverse his so called healing. You guys keep descending to new lows every day everybody is to blame except your miserable pastor who is a confirmed fraudster and charlatan. I sincerely pray that God would open your eyes and release you from Oyaks bondage before it's too late. 12 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by SirJohn(m): 8:38am On Sep 16, 2014 |
mbaemeka: Again you evade talking about your take on the video posted Well Bro, you have already taken a side on a matter so what difference does it make. I called the lady and her brother and they never admitted that she was blind period. I'm sure joagbaje still has her contact, you can do a follow up yourself . He told me he had proof of a boy healed of a hole in the heart, when I demanded he provide the x-rays showing the before and after, he started brandishing numbers of other people. tell me why would I call anyone again when I have been accused of lying with the first one I called? mbaemeka: You are one very funny guy, you enjoy making things look complicated. Every picture I have posted from the HS have been from either the HS site or the HS magazine. I have not denied that and it doesn't make any difference where the pictures are from. in my last post I said "Those were not just pictures from the healing school website" I gave links to pictures in the HS website in my original post but the links no longer work so I had to post some of the pictures directly. I wonder how little things like this are difficult for you to understand. Those were folks from the 2008 HS session, if you think they're not then let me know Bro. mbaemeka: Oh come on!, I was hoping you wouldn't say this, it was the same crap Pst Deola Okeowo said at the beginning of the HS session. But like I mentioned in my original post, there was no such thing. Some of the wheelchairs used in the HS where borrowed from other students. In 2008 for example, out of over 100 wheelchair cases in that session, only five made it to the healing line, out of that five, three were given wheelchairs taken from other students, only two came with their wheelchairs and they where not crippled but had conditions that required them to stay less on their feet so as not to put more pressure on their limbs; one of such conditions is arthritis. Even after they were prayed for and asked to stand out of the wheelchair to the amazement of the unsuspecting audience who obviously thought these folks couldn't walk, they quietly sat back in their wheelchairs as before after the audience had left. mbaemeka: Again my friend, this is what you were made to believe, all these folks were well able to stand and walk up till when they were prayed for. Those who are unable to stand and walk never I repeat NEVER make it to the healing line. Pst Chris ministers to only people he knows will get up when he says so because the healing line has been carefully selected. I explained the process in my initial write up mbaemeka: Yes concerning Kenyan28, I'd rather not talk about her again as her matter has resorted to "your word against mine" "She said he said". The truth is, a lot of what she posted initially were modified facts just to give credence to her healing story. God opened her eyes and she came out clean with me. You dont have to feel for her, she and her daughter is doing very fine now and her daughter I understand is now free of the virus. Its very possible that her husband is HIV free as it is not automatic to contract the virus even if you have sexual intercourse with an infected person. percentage can sometimes be less than 1 in 1000 chance. mbaemeka: You're trying too hard to evade several strong issues raised on the post and endlessly clinging to trivial issues. Oh I get it, you're trying unsuccessfully to put a hole in a small part of my story so you can discredit the entire account. Sorry Bro, it aint working 10 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by SirJohn(m): 9:07am On Sep 16, 2014 |
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Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by WinsomeX: 10:44am On Sep 16, 2014 |
Is there any Christ Embassy member on this thread who quite naturally doubts SirJohn, who plans to attend the two weeks healing school with a sick person to ascertain whether SirJohn is lying or not? This is not a challenge. Its simply a suggestion or possibly a request. While it's easy to claim that embarking on such a mission is not congruent with "faith"; it might be your own opportunity to prove SirJohn a liar. 2 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by WinsomeX: 10:56am On Sep 16, 2014 |
nnenneigbo: |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by shdemidemi(m): 11:29am On Sep 16, 2014 |
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Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by mbaemeka(m): 12:05pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
SirJohn and Trustman, I will respond when I am chanced. I just wanted to clarify on WinsomeX and nnenneigbo. @WinsomeX there was a just concluded Healing School session in Canada. Thousands again went there to be deceived many of which must have heard about SirJohn's thread in 2008. I wonder why they are still going there. And of course, there were many staged-miracles and lying wonders all free of charge. Praise the Lord. I checked the link you and nnenneigbo provided for the write-up but it didn't work. Maybe you and her can provide a better one. Alternately, you can read the handle 'Feedthenation's post as it was more comprehensive. (I attended that service so I know). When you are done reading it please tell the forum where you and nnenneigbo got the concluding paragraph. The "Chris Oyakhilome and his ex-wife Anita" my zonal Pastor...bla bla bla. Do you see how you have reposted a lie because you want to believe what you want to believe? Nnenneigbo can help you out as she seems to be the source of that aspect and don't tell me it is trivial because I am trying to show you how easy it is to believe anything no matter how even non-commonsensical it is. For example, believing that someone would use millions of dollars to organise a show where he and a few people stage-manage miracles when they don't get anything in return for doing so. 2 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Kenny4lyfe(m): 12:13pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
PastorKun: I say a loud "Ammmmiiinnn oh!" To that prayer! Fixed 5 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by PastorKun(m): 12:24pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
Kenny4lyfe: You seriously need help. 4 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by WinsomeX: 12:59pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
mbaemeka: Consider my earlier suggestion: WinsomeX: Is there any Christ Embassy member on this thread who quite naturally doubts SirJohn, who plans to attend the two weeks healing school with a sick person to ascertain whether SirJohn is lying or not? mbaemeka: Thank you for the observation. Check this one: www.saharareporters.com/2014/09/15/divorce-scandal-pastor-chris-oyakhilome-warns-members-against-speaking-ill-“man-god” ^^^ My browser is not pasting the link properly. You may Google "sahara reporters Oyakhilome speaking ill", the article is the first item on the resulting page. Except, of course, you deny this also never happened. 1 Like |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by WinsomeX: 1:23pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
^^^ Now, that article leads to some very important questions: Who is Michelle Okojie? What did she do "for" Chris Oyakhilome? |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by deadie(m): 5:44pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
Christian Oyakhilome (the hair relaxing 'man of God') as well as all the 'miracle pastors' (i.e. TB Joshua and his 'wise men') are the most successful fraudsters in Nigeria. Anyway, their mumu followers deserve them. 1 Like |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by deadie(m): 5:45pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
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Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Kenny4lyfe(m): 7:22pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
PastorKun: Thanks but no thanks! |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by mbaemeka(m): 10:58pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
SirJohn: I am not interested in the videos because they are not referring to the HS and the only videos you have as regards the HS was provided by CEC. If they are smart enough to deceive people for how many years now, why do you think you would spot any discrepancies in the videos they provided for your viewing? As per, your exchange with Joagbaje I believe I have stated my position on the issue and I believe him over you. For starters, I know someone that attends the same church with him who tells me of all the miraculous things he sees happening regularly Or maybe he too stage-manages it? You are one very funny guy, you enjoy making things look complicated. Every picture I have posted from the HS have been from either the HS site or the HS magazine. I have not denied that and it doesn't make any difference where the pictures are from. in my last post I said "Those were not just pictures from the healing school website" I gave links to pictures in the HS website in my original post but the links no longer work so I had to post some of the pictures directly. I wonder how little things like this are difficult for you to understand. Those were folks from the 2008 HS session, if you think they're not then let me know Bro If the pictures you provided were from CE or the HS website then you are only giving your own interpretation of the pictures- nothing else. Hope you understand. If you say "look at this woman in red, she came there without a wheelchair. . .now she's sitting on one" It doesn't mean that's how it happened. The very woman may have come in that wheelchair yet you are reporting otherwise and misleading those who didn't go there. That's why I asked you for your own pictures and videos. Kapische? Oh come on!, I was hoping you wouldn't say this, it was the same crap Pst Deola Okeowo said at the beginning of the HS session. But like I mentioned in my original post, there was no such thing. Some of the wheelchairs used in the HS where borrowed from other students. In 2008 for example, out of over 100 wheelchair cases in that session, only five made it to the healing line, out of that five, three were given wheelchairs taken from other students, only two came with their wheelchairs and they where not crippled but had conditions that required them to stay less on their feet so as not to put more pressure on their limbs; one of such conditions is arthritis. Even after they were prayed for and asked to stand out of the wheelchair to the amazement of the unsuspecting audience who obviously thought these folks couldn't walk, they quietly sat back in their wheelchairs as before after the audience had left. You can already tell you are in the wrong if everyone's testimony has to be a lie for yours to be true yet more people have gone to the HS than you. Also, you said some of the wheelchairs used were borrowed and not all, so why should Pastor Deola's statement be crap? Then you said out of over 100 wheelchair cases only 5 made it to the Healing line so the remaining >95 were left hanging yet many people still go to the HS with wheelchairs 6 years after? Besides, you didn't say that the 5 people that were on the healing line with wheelchairs were not all crippled did you? So if someone gets healed of Arthritis they should keep standing all through after the healing to prove what? Don't you know walking or standing for long will feel anomalous to them given that they hadn't been doing so before? In 2008 Higherlife Conference in PHC, a lady got healed in the crowd some long distance away from the podium where Pastor Chris stood. Her family members kept hoisting the wheelchair that once carried her in the air while they walked towards the testimony line. By the time she got to meet with Pastor Chris she looked very tired and he said so. He said they should have not let her walk that long distance as she wasn't used to doing so in a while, then he asked her to sit back on the wheelchair while he continued listening to other testimonies saying he would minister to her again (remember I said I was an usher in that meeting), towards the end of the meeting he stepped up to her and held the 2 arms of the chair moving his legs while he stared intently at her. After a while he asked her to get up and this time she did so more briskly and even started hopping and jumping faster. He made her run across the stage and she did it a lot better than she had earlier done. The Liberation stadium erupted! So someone else may have attended that meeting and claimed that the woman "didn't come in a wheelchair" or "could walk before they put her in a wheelchair" or "she didn't walk any better when she came out to give her testimony" or even better. . . "she sat back after testifying with a pale look on her face, while family members didn't look like they saw any miracle". Again my friend, this is what you were made to believe, all these folks were well able to stand and walk up till when they were prayed for. Those who are unable to stand and walk never I repeat NEVER make it to the healing line. Pst Chris ministers to only people he knows will get up when he says so because the healing line has been carefully selected. I explained the process in my initial write up Like I said in my above response, it's all about perspective. Someone said "he took the rope and tied the goat" another person said "he took the goat and tied the rope" the question is "was the goat tied?" In the case that caused a rukus between Pastors Chris and TB Joshua and the whole of PFN there was a dutch man named Westerhorf that was on a wheelchair following a debilitating disease or an accident (can't recall). The man got up and walked in front of everyone. PFN saw it and didn't deny it- they claimed he used satanic powers. But you are saying he stage-managed it- even in TB Joshua's church? Haba. Yes concerning Kenyan28, I'd rather not talk about her again as her matter has resorted to "your word against mine" "She said he said". Absolute bogus hocus pocus. The modified facts could be what she said after due to anger and frustration. Did anybody call her to come on NL to testify? Did she ever claim anyone did? Did she not of her own volition say that she got healed by acting her faith in Jesus? Did she not unsolicitedly state that Pastor Chris didn't touch her? Did anyone ask her who sent her to the clinic? Did she not say she went there on her own and saw them use the same strips that she had tested positive to 13 times in Kenya yet she tested negative this time around? Did she not keep saying so even after a full year that she had lived symptom-free without ever taking medications? On the issue of "her daughter is living virus-free now" I doubt it, and I would tell you why. Just recently, the medications that were administered to a baby that tested positive, failed 3 years down the line as the virus re-emerged and this case was in Kenya. I don't wish that for her though but I wonder if she will come back to insult medicine for failing if that were the case. As per her husband, make we leave matter. I am not sure the created their baby after 1 try. That he is HIV negative is a miracle in my view. Period. You're trying too hard to evade several strong issues raised on the post and endlessly clinging to trivial issues. Oh I get it, you're trying unsuccessfully to put a hole in a small part of my story so you can discredit the entire account. No bro, on the contrary. You and I as well as every healthy person on NL don't count. The people that do are those who will get sick and try all the medical technologies available but will fail to see a result. They will look for other means and the one's who believe will go to the HS and get healed free of charge. Talking about clinging to trivialities, isn't that what you need to do to convince yourself that anybody who says they went to the HS and got healed is lying while you who says "all healings were stage-managed" is saying the truth. If A says it is a big spoon but B, C, D and E all say it is a spade. Pray, tell me what are the odds of A's correctness? Mathematics says 20% and 20% by any standard is a fail. 2 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by mbaemeka(m): 12:18am On Sep 17, 2014 |
trustman: You bet it. I have been on NL longer than most of you and I don't have as many posts as some because I am not on every thread saying things that I haven't properly studied-something most of you are guilty of though some more than others. Have you ever heard of the Hypostatic union? Simply put it the teaching that Jesus Christ was BOTH undiminished deity and true humanity IN ONE person for ever. While he was on earth he was what I just described above. Now is there ANY other human being that can be described in the same way? Maybe you guys know. I would say NO ONE. Oga, I agreed in the previous exchange that Jesus was 100 percent man and 100 percent God while on earth. I said he functioned ONLY as a man while on earth while he made "God-like" claims. That's what Paul meant by: Philippians 2:6-10New International Version (NIV) 6 Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself Jesus knew he was God but he let himself be subject to principles and systems of men- he humbled himself that way. That's why he ran away when he was threatened on some occasions and when Peter brought out a sword to fend off soldiers Jesus reminded him that he could have brought the host's of heaven to fight for him (a statement Elijah also made many years before). That's true humility: having power and choosing not to use it; thinking less of yourself without thinking of yourself, less. When you therefore belittle the UNIQUENESS of Jesus Christ one wonders which Christ you believe. When the angel announced in Luke 2: 11-:For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." was that baby in a manger the savior and Christ the Lord or just like any other human being? What sustained his humanity from there till and then through his public ministry? His human will-power? According to you it had to be because you NOT ONLY compared him with a prodigy you claim "Jesus could do no single miracle till he received the Holy Spirit at age 30. Until then any attributes of divinity like his prodigious wisdom at age 12 were purely coincidental." COINCIDENCE? So to you the workings of God in Jesus were just a matter of CHANCE. Nobody can belittle Jesus- even if they tried. Jesus is the Christ and Lord and I believe there is a general consensus on that matter but the baby in the manger was not yet the savior even if he was appointed unto that. The bible says the young boy Jesus grew in wisdom. Tell me, will God need to grow in wisdom? Is God not the very essence of wisdom? When I compared Jesus to a child prodigy I was indirectly telling you who he was as a boy- a prodigy. That God made him so wasn't by chance but linking it to his divinity is wrong and that's what I challenged. And yes, Jesus did no miracle till he was 30. The bible says so and tells us why- the Holy Spirit, the author of the miracles hadn't come upon him. Read this: John 2:11New International Version (NIV) 11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him. This was after he had been baptized. Until his baptism, even Satan did not know who he was that's why he made random attempts to kill him as a child. I want to ASSUME you agree he had[b]NO SIN NATURE[/b]. If for that FACT alone he still in your estimation DOES NOT qualify to be in a class of his own then I wonder what you guys are thinking. Except like I said you just want to 'puncture' every 'opponent' points whether good or bad. Jesus, the son of Man had no sin nature I agree. But this is not what made him perform miracles- the Holy Spirit's presence in him was. The uniqueness of Jesus as a class of his own was that like Adam he represented mankind. Whatever happened to him would affect the rest of us who are born after him like it affected us since we were born after the first Adam. That's why Jesus was a class of his own- nothing else. So you sincerely think that as at the time he started his ministry he still had TO GROW HIS FAITH [/b]that is why his miracles KEPT IMPROVING? In spite of what he proved himself to be at 12 years? He grew in wisdom, he grew in faith, he grew in knowledge, he grew in stature, his miracles kept growing greater etc. He didn't prove himself to be anything but a supremely intelligent young kid at age 12. His divinity was yet to be manifest till he died and resurrected. Until then, he made claims to it but never manifested it till his death. When he resurrected, Thomas called him Lord and God not just the "son of God". Did Jesus [b]SOLICIT for people to be brought to him in order for him to perform miracles? The answer is No. That is what is meant by the fact that Jesus' miracles WERE NOT formally arranged. That people brought the sick to him in droves or individually DOES NOT remove from the fact that he DID NOT set up a healing school OR even set apart specific times in his day or week solely for miracle working. They just come in the ordinary course of his business. Jesus gave instructions to his then disciples to go in 2's healing the sick and preaching about the kingdom. They didn't go around and expect sick people to just come to them spontaneously- they were sent to go out and heal them while teaching. Besides, Jesus read Isaiah's prophecy and told everyone in the synagogue that the prophecy was fulfilled by his presence. He was basically asking the sick, blind, lame etc to come to him. they didn't just randomly come. So the fact that "Healing Ministers" today have schools for it doesn't make them wrong. They are bringing organization to it just like we have Televangelists today. I must not go about on foot to preach, I could do it via the internet or with a vehicle etc. So check this out again: Jesus didn't use the internet to preach or teach. Some sick people needed more faith to get healed. The man whose son was possessed by a deaf and dumb spirit asked Jesus to help his lack of faith- Unbelief. Mark 9:23-25New International Version (NIV) 23 “‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.” 24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!” 25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. “You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, “I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.” Did you notice Jesus asked the Demon never to enter the boy again? Why do you think he said so? because the demon could enter again and make the boy deaf and dumb as well as epileptic. That's why someone can lose their healing- Jesus is saying so again but if you have no experiences in casting out demons or praying for the sick, you would not know. Now please show me where scriptures that states that no one lost their healings or that the healings were irreversible, I ask for the umpteenth time? If we come to an account as this: Jesus said something WORSE could happen to you. A WORSE SICKNESS than the one he had previously suffered. Still on this issue of 'greater', when Jesus said greater works what did he mean? Are we to look at 'works' from the perspective of miracles alone? Can any single man since Christ claim that he alone has done greater works than Christ did? So how is that verse to be understood? Jesus said that GREATER WORKS than the miracles he had done. The works meant miracles. The preceding verses 10 and 11 state so unequivocally. Jesus said the "Father in me (Holy Spirit) does the works" What works? The miracles, signs, wonders. In verse 11 he said even if you don't believe me, believe the works (Miracles) for no one could do what he did except God was with him. No single man need claim anything. Let us first of all do what Jesus did before we can bother about being or doing greater. But ignorance and unbelief has made many not to bother doing anything instead they hurl abuses and persecute those who dare to. So, The procedures line up as much as using the internet to preach does. Let us not split hairs unnecessarily. And as per the percentage who keeps the figures? I see more people get healed instantly than those I have ever seen in any hospital for the same sicknesses and even worse. That's a good way to start. 2 Likes |
Re: Truth Behind Christ Embassy Healing School By Sir John by Jasi7(m): 12:22am On Sep 17, 2014 |
trustman: Don't mind that animal guy...he's been misbehaving since this thread started 1 Like |
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