Ubenedictus:


o.k, God come and toast dapo.

How do you define wickedness?

davien:
smh.......estimates are based on concurrent data....only a religitard like yourself would try to compare estimates to assertions of a man on a winged animal taking flight to "heaven"....
I really don't have anything to prove to you because whether or not you understand or deny the science it still works... not so much you can say for talking donkeys and psychopathic magical jewish "god" can you?
And no i couldn't help but laugh on your stup!dity....if you noticed i'm following you.. dimwits like you are funny...so why not follow you and get daily laughs from your stup!dity?

Xcapist:


On what grounds can we ascertain it's truthfulness? Is it objective truth we speak about or subjective.

davien:
I think the idea you think science is image123 is that the occurence itself has to be observable....that idea is wrong....from the observation of the present and being keen to studying processes that are constant to have a default value.... the past and future can be estimated with varying degrees of accuracy thus verify-able

Hiswordxray:
1Peter 1:20 "He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you". Heb 9:26 "He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.". Rom 5:20 "But then Law came in, [only] to expand and increase the trespass [making it more apparent and exciting opposition]..." and in Gal 3:19, 22-24 "What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added [later on, after the promise, to disclose and expose to men their guilt] because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made... But the Scriptures [picture all mankind as sinners] shut up and imprisoned by sin, so that [the inheritance, blessing] which was promised through faith in Jesus Christ (the Messiah) might be given (released, delivered, and committed) to [all] those who believe [who adhere to and trust in and rely on Him]. Now before the faith came, we were perpetually guarded under the Law, kept in custody in preparation for the faith that was destined to be revealed (unveiled, disclosed), So that the Law served [to us Jews] as our trainer [our guardian, our guide to Christ, to lead us] until Christ [came], that we might be justified (declared righteous, put in right standing with God) by and through faith." (AMP) . Heb 10:1 "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things". There is no better thing to say than what the word has said.

Image123:


This makes no sense. How can varying degrees of accuracy make anything verifiable? Why deceive yourself with meaningless words probably copied from some intelligent pretender? What is the meaning of varying degrees of accuracy for earth's sake? Like 2+2 equals 22 or 2.04 or 3 or 3.9998 due to varying degrees of accuracy? Thus verifiable, QED. Please, think for yourself, freethinking should not be an excuse for meaningless statements.

Image123:


This makes no sense. How can varying degrees of accuracy make anything verifiable? Why deceive yourself with meaningless words probably copied from some intelligent pretender? What is the meaning of varying degrees of accuracy for earth's sake? Like 2+2 equals 22 or 2.04 or 3 or 3.9998 due to varying degrees of accuracy? Thus verifiable, QED. Please, think for yourself, freethinking should not be an excuse for meaningless statements.

Image123:


Do you for a minute think that i need to prove anything to you? You've shown us that you cannot? verify your own future, you claim to be only able to estimate how many times i peed yesterday, you cannot verify if my grandfather ever traveled to Sudan. These are all realities you cannot verify. The simple point in case you missed it yet again being, that you cannot verify something don't mean it didn't happen. The supernatural is not subject to laboratory tests, and life doesn't always boil down to science.

Xcapist:


Bro, it appears like you're deliberately making effort to misunderstand him. Not cool, really. There's a course in A-level mathematics called Numerical Analysis... in my school it was math209. I don't know if you're familiar with it. If you were familiar with that domain of mathematics then you'd know that approximation and estimates can be used to perform computations that give usable results. It finds practical application in the field of computing.


Note this (from Wikipedia):
overall goal of the field of numerical analysis is the design and analysis of
techniques to give approximate but accurate solutions to hard problems, the
variety of which is suggested by the following

Advanced numerical methods are essential in making numerical weather
prediction feasible.

Computing the trajectory of a spacecraft requires the accurate numerical
solution of a system of ordinary differential equations .

Car companies can improve the crash safety of their vehicles by using
computer simulations of car crashes. Such simulations essentially consist of
solving partial differential equations numerically.

Hedge funds (private investment funds) use tools from all fields of
numerical analysis to attempt to calculate the value of stocks and derivatives
more precisely than other market participants.

Airlines use sophisticated optimization algorithms to decide ticket prices,
airplane and crew assignments and fuel needs. Historically, such algorithms
were developed within the overlapping field of operations research .

Insurance companies use numerical programs for actuarial analysis.
The rest of this section outlines several important themes of numerical
analysis.

davien:
2 plus 2 are descriptive man-made mathematic models and would always be equals to 4 unless the definitions are changed....also the same way a triangle would always have 3 sides is because it is definitional....
And what i meant by varying degrees of accuracy are the different results that can be obtained through these models as compared to the phenomenon it verifies... an example is gravity....it is a model that verifies to a degree how mass can pull other bodies towards itself...its degree of accuracy is correct(thus verify-able) as applied to the earth and other phenomenon....but when we approach bodies like mercury(the planet) it fails and has to be patched with the theory of relativity....every model has a varying degree of accuracy....

davien:
Statistics are used to determine the future whether you admit to this or not....it still works. And as for your grandfather i believe telling you i don't know if he did or did not travel to sudan would be my best answer due to you not providing substantial evidence....so is the case of what you call "supernatural"....how you can detect what you call "supernatural" let alone give it descriptive qualities and yet have it non-existent.. since it is lacking in any evidence or proofs that can be verified....it will remain non-existent and not certain...just like unicorns and talking donkeys....

Image123:


There you go again. i'll keep it simple nd on point. Here are three realities; your future posts on nairaland, my urinating yesterday, my grandfather.
Your future posts (next month by grace) are specific. It is either you make 20posts or no. There is no varying degree of ACCURACY about it.
It is either i urinated a specific number of times yesterday. You cannot be varying the accuracy saying i urinated 2.43times, or 6, or 9. You have to be accurate about it. It is senseless to vary the degrees.
It is either my grandfather traveled to Sudan in his lifetime or he didn't. You can't be varying the accuracy between yes, no, maybe, whatever.
These are the models of reality in focus.

Image123:


Statistics are used to PREDICT and PROJECT into the future. They don't compulsorily determine the future. Also, you cannot determine if my grandfather ever TRAVELED to Sudan using the method you claimed, which BTW is not a MERE method. You cannot verify it, yet the event allegedly happened, point made. Not every reality can be verified, whatever reason.
Something is said to be supernatural when it is not natural, that's a basic enough explanation. Millions of people in different centuries till tomorrow make claims to experiencing the supernatural, it's not dismissible with the wave of the hand.

davien:
You are comparing apples and oranges.... why do i have to be 100% accurate for past,future and geological events.....? can you recall 100% all the words you have ever written on paper?.... and why is the proof of your grandfather being in sudan on me?....am i making any claim that he did travel anywhere?

davien:
The likelyhood of events are what is determined(predicted).....and if you allege that your grand-daddy travelled to sudan then the burden of proof is on you.....else i am justified to dismiss it....
I cannot verify it because you asserted it without any evidence.....so whether or not he did do such a thing is easily dissmiss-able
As for the "supernatural" you defined it as "not natural" therefore can we say cars....planes....phones and shoes are "supernatural"?
REMEMBER THAT IS YOUR DEFINITION I USED ABOVE
This is the problem words that are vague and easily re-purposed.....

Image123:


You're making great effort at misconstruing the point. He said that varying degrees of accuracy makes stuff verifiable. While i see him appreciate your comradeship, his words were " the past and future can be estimated with varying degrees of accuracy thus verify-able". That is senseless as there is nothing like varying degrees of accuracy in the context we were discussing. He was to verify amongst other things his future, how many times i urinated yesterday, and if my grandfather ever traveled to Sudan. He failed to verify any of these alleged realities. Instead, he was busy spinning dust about how those were MERE tasks and about secondary schoolers knowing how to.
Here you come with advanced level stuff, trajectories of space craft, partial differential equations, and sophisticated optimization algorithms. hehehe, thereisGodo.

DavidKissinger:
Phew! In all ramification, Logic always seem to rout 'faith'.

Xcapist, you asked me to employ my reasoning, and if I should oblige, no doubt, I'd easily agree with you. But the Bible told us, faith over sight, eh? Again, that's the issue.

I'll be honest with you now, Despite my faith in Him, I've often had doubt about HIS ways, but what do I, a mere mortal know? And believe me, this is the same phase you are. Deep down in your heart, beneath those walls you're trying so hard to mount, you know HE exists.

Now, let me tell you about my dad, a dad you may relate to too..

My dad is the most perfect person on God's green earth, he's never wrong. No, not once, not ever. He'll never say to you, "Oh son, you were right, I never should have taken the left turn" , if I get 'lucky', He may say "the left turn never appeared the best option anyway". Yeah right, 'left turn' gets the blame, Nope, Not him, that's how perfect my dad is. He's always right. Today he asks me to do this, I do it, falls short. And He bellows, and when I go all, "but dad, the other time, you told m.....", "Shut up!!! Didn't common sense tell you..." Yep, this time it's 'common sense', never him, Perfect dad, I must say.

Why ? May be because if he admits wrong, it may present him as 'weak', rob him a tidbit of his appellation 'all-perfect dad'. And that's not to a large extent.. ideal, I guess.

May be because if he admits wrong, on his account would lay my excuse for being 'bad', "afterall, dad is not all perfect, he does this too." thus, he rather have me strive for perfection.

Dad too, will invariably point to my ills, sometimes punish me too. And do I get maddened by it? Of course, who wouldn't? But in the long run, he's only doing it for my good- try to make me a better person.

Growing up, I started seeing dad's fault too, "No, he's not all-perfect. For Pete's sake! He can easily pass for an hypocrite! " ( I don't mean it, daddy *inserts kiss smiley*)

That's my dad for you. But you know what? Despite his 'flaws', I can't despise him for it. No, never. Yes, I may get mad, but for how long? Dad's still dad, still the most amazing person in my life. I love him so, so much and I'm ever grateful for the huge chunk he has contributed (and still contributing) to my life.

Same way he loves me- same way I KNOW he loves me, in spite of my flaws. I often do think he sees me as 'weak' (let me not go there) but despite this, it doesn't take the love away.

By now, you must have figured what I'm implying. Yes, Xcapist. That's my relationship with HIM. Call me psycho, call me schzophrenic for having an 'imaginary sky daddy'. I don't mind. Honestly, I don't.

And if by 'human standard', He isn't 'perfect', who am I, to 'judge' HIM?


Xcapist, it is okay to try to feel your Maker's pulse, but we should know when to draw the line. You have, like Paul would say, 'worked harder than other apostles'- Myself inclusive. Wait, What if I tell you I've never quite taken the gospel to anyone? What if I tell you I don't even attend any church? And do I feel conscience-smitten about that? No. Am I under way to becoming an atheist too? No. You are Shocked, I believe..

Xcapist, now I appeal, why not retrace your steps? Back to the drawing board?

Nevertheless, if this is the path you've chosen to follow, nothing changes. I respect your decision. And My admiration for you remains unaltered. You remain an inspiration and I'd forever be glad I met you.

This is where I take my bow, Thanks for your time. It was indeed worth the while. And my dear, I've seen miracles happen, no, not the rain nor snow, none of that. I've seen genuine miracles. And with you, I'd hope for one.

once again, Thanks ....for everything.

MAY GOD FORGIVE US ALL..

*hands over baton to Tallesty1*

*exeunts*

DavidKissinger:


Wow! This is where I stroke your ego.

You Atheists are so smart.

Image123:


You didn't know it was apples and oranges when you wanted to force theological issues into the laboratory?
What level of accuracy is expected for verifying if my grandfather traveled to Sudan? What level to verify how many dreams i had last night? What level to verify Mo' flying to heaven?
If you cannot verify that my grandfather traveled to Sudan, does that mean it didn't happen? If i or nobody can verify, does that mean it didn't happen?

Image123:


Don't be lazy. Cars, planes and shoes are natural.

natural /ˈnatʃ(ə)r(ə)l/
adjective
1. existing in or derived from nature; not made or caused by humankind.
2. in accordance with the nature of, or circumstances surrounding, someone or something.
3. (of a parent or child) related by blood.
4. (of a note) not sharp or flat.
5. relating to earthly human or physical nature as distinct from the spiritual or supernatural realm.
6. (of a bid) straightforwardly reflecting one's holding of cards.
noun
1. a person having an innate talent for a particular task or activity.
2. a sign (♮) denoting a natural note when a previous sign or the key signature would otherwise demand a sharp or a flat.
3. an off-white colour.
4. a hand of cards, throw of dice, or other result which wins immediately, in particular:
5. an insect or other small creature used as bait, rather than an artificial imitation.
6. a person born with a learning disability.
adverb
naturally.

Xcapist:


David, you did more to me than I did to you. Godspeed.

Oya Tallesty1, over to you bro.

DavidKissinger:
Phew! In all ramification, Logic always seem to rout 'faith'.

Xcapist, you asked me to employ my reasoning, and if I should oblige, no doubt, I'd easily agree with you. But the Bible told us, faith over sight, eh? Again, that's the issue.

I'll be honest with you now, Despite my faith in Him, I've often had doubt about HIS ways, but what do I, a mere mortal know? And believe me, this is the same phase you are. Deep down in your heart, beneath those walls you're trying so hard to mount, you know HE exists.

Now, let me tell you about my dad, a dad you may relate to too..

My dad is the most perfect person on God's green earth, he's never wrong. No, not once, not ever. He'll never say to you, "Oh son, you were right, I never should have taken the left turn" , if I get 'lucky', He may say "the left turn never appeared the best option anyway". Yeah right, 'left turn' gets the blame, Nope, Not him, that's how perfect my dad is. He's always right. Today he asks me to do this, I do it, falls short. And He bellows, and when I go all, "but dad, the other time, you told m.....", "Shut up!!! Didn't common sense tell you..." Yep, this time it's 'common sense', never him, Perfect dad, I must say.

Why ? May be because if he admits wrong, it may present him as 'weak', rob him a tidbit of his appellation 'all-perfect dad'. And that's not to a large extent.. ideal, I guess.

May be because if he admits wrong, on his account would lay my excuse for being 'bad', "afterall, dad is not all perfect, he does this too." thus, he rather have me strive for perfection.

Dad too, will invariably point to my ills, sometimes punish me too. And do I get maddened by it? Of course, who wouldn't? But in the long run, he's only doing it for my good- try to make me a better person.

Growing up, I started seeing dad's fault too, "No, he's not all-perfect. For Pete's sake! He can easily pass for an hypocrite! " ( I don't mean it, daddy *inserts kiss smiley*)

That's my dad for you. But you know what? Despite his 'flaws', I can't despise him for it. No, never. Yes, I may get mad, but for how long? Dad's still dad, still the most amazing person in my life. I love him so, so much and I'm ever grateful for the huge chunk he has contributed (and still contributing) to my life.

Same way he loves me- same way I KNOW he loves me, in spite of my flaws. I often do think he sees me as 'weak' (let me not go there) but despite this, it doesn't take the love away.

By now, you must have figured what I'm implying. Yes, Xcapist. That's my relationship with HIM. Call me psycho, call me schzophrenic for having an 'imaginary sky daddy'. I don't mind. Honestly, I don't.

And if by 'human standard', He isn't 'perfect', who am I, to 'judge' HIM?


Xcapist, it is okay to try to feel your Maker's pulse, but we should know when to draw the line. You have, like Paul would say, 'worked harder than other apostles'- Myself inclusive. Wait, What if I tell you I've never quite taken the gospel to anyone? What if I tell you I don't even attend any church? And do I feel conscience-smitten about that? No. Am I under way to becoming an atheist too? No. You are Shocked, I believe..

Xcapist, now I appeal, why not retrace your steps? Back to the drawing board?

Nevertheless, if this is the path you've chosen to follow, nothing changes. I respect your decision. And My admiration for you remains unaltered. You remain an inspiration and I'd forever be glad I met you.

This is where I take my bow, Thanks for your time. It was indeed worth the while. And my dear, I've seen miracles happen, no, not the rain nor snow, none of that. I've seen genuine miracles. And with you, I'd hope for one.

once again, Thanks ....for everything.

MAY GOD FORGIVE US ALL..

*hands over baton to Tallesty1*

*exeunts*

AgentOfAllah:


I have sound deductive and cognitive skills, and I'm able to articulate my thoughts with lucidity. The way I see it, I'm in a position to ask any question I like.
I am not disputing the fact you feel you have "Sound deductive and cognitive skills"



I don't think my beliefs had the remotest influence on the decision you made concerning yours, so you don't need to know what I believe in any more than you need to know what I had for breakfast.
It actually does has it's influence, for instance your Moniker states "AgentOfAllah". We won't want a convolution in our argument, I do hope you understand my statement.



If you really wish to know, I believe in me.
I've heard this before, and really it didn't help matters much.
You know what I'm askin' for and I expect you to give it to me.
Please.

Xcapist:


Lols.
I should have read between the lines. My bad.

I just thought since we (or they) can with varying degrees of accuracy predict weather, and with almost absolute certainty - even to the exact minute - predict eclipses, the rise and fall of stocks etc based on calculations it is on a similar plain of application. I can see how I may have flew off the tangent. Apologies. Have a great day ahead bro! But have your grandpa ever traveled to Sudan?

AgentOfAllah:


Evolution is design by nature. Perhaps you wish to compare evolution and intelligent, purposive design?

By definition, any naturalistic/materialistic proposition for the origin of species, however flawed, is statistically less improbable than a supernatural alternative. So, your task is to show that this level of complexity is not naturally possible.

Xcapist:
My friend BossTtdiamonds has been sighted. I like this guy, wonderful individual...but he's not a hero

davien:
Like i said...whether it is true or not.....so far as you can't validate something you claim is true....everyone is justified to not believe you..
since you can't trace your lineage or provide evidence for what you claim is true then it cannot be taken as true....the default position is that it is untrue....till you either prove it or claim you don't know...

davien:
cool so now tell me,what specific definition of these can we say the "supernatural" is a negative to and how you could detect it(being outside of nature).....and probably give an example so that i can know if anything around me is(supernatural)...

BossTtdiamonds:


It actually does has it's influence, for instance your Moniker states "agentofallah". We won't want a convolution in our argument, I do hope you understand my statement.