Sagamite, calm down.
I think Crackles learned his lesson.

Sagamite:

The slowpoke does not know I am not in his league when it comes to intellectual debates. Let the bleeping stupid soon-to-be-slaughtered fool comeback with his conjectures and see what happens as I sensitize his brain-farts with logic and facts.

All these for crackles

A i ni sè shé is a serious problem!!! Roflmao!!!

Sagamite:

You state the problems Buhari faced but not their achievements in turning things around. Without the achievement it would be very difficult to assess that regime, I do appreciate it is hard to get the figures now but apart from social discipline through force, I can't recall any song-praising of economic recovery Buhari and Idiagbon being part of the portfolio of praise for that regime.

The social discipline kept people on their toes.
Corruption was reduced to the barest minimum. . . .Politicians with capricious personalities were locked up and Nigeria was headed towards the right direction. They were able to put honest men in uniform to direct affairs and in the long term, their plans could have worked.

Their administration was short-lived(no thanks to IBB) because they were about to investigate some top military officers who were suspected of handling fraudulent military contracts in the defence ministry.
There was no way any economic recovery would have been visible given the short period they were in power.
You cannot compare OBJ's 8 years to Buhari's 20 months in power.

~Sauron~:

The social discipline kept people on their toes.
Corruption was reduced to the barest minimum. . . .Politicians with capricious personalities were locked up and Nigeria was headed towards the right direction. They were able to put honest men in uniform to direct affairs and in the long term, their plans could have worked.

Agreed! I am not disputing that for a second. I loved those guys.

My point is that OBJ lacked the luxury of such powers and still achieved a lot (imo even more than Buhari/Idiagbon).

~Sauron~:

Their administration was short-lived(no thanks to IBB) because they were about to investigate some top military officers who were suspected of handling fraudulent military contracts in the defence ministry.
There was no way any economic recovery would have been visible given the short period they were in power.
You cannot compare OBJ's 8 years to Buhari's 20 months in power.

You have arrived at my point then. Without any form of reasonable assessment, or even myth, of economic achievements then saying Idiagbon/Buhari are the best is a specious argument.

Ouch. . . Lol. Take it easy sagamite

Sagamite:

Agreed! I am not disputing that for a second. I loved those guys.

My point is that OBJ lacked the luxury of such powers and still achieved a lot (imo even more than Buhari/Idiagbon).

OBJ has all the power and he cld have achieved a lot.
OBJ was a military man in agbada.

Fhemmmy:

OBJ has all the power and he cld have achieved a lot.
OBJ was a military man in agbada.

Conjecture, mate! Otherwise he would have had a third term.

FL Gators:

Sagamite, calm down.
I think Crackles learned his lesson.

TOPE2000!:

Ouch. . . Lol. Take it easy sagamite

Babes, I am just enjoying myself. It is fun to me to ridicule cunts like him on this forum.

It is my cruel way of catching fun (bullying intellectually less privileged goons), my only vice on earth. 

Rofl. . .meanie

Sagamite:

Babes, I am just enjoying myself. It is fun to me to ridicule cunts like him on this forum.
It is my cruel way of catching fun, my only vice on earth.  

hahaha, yeye man

Sagamite:

Conjecture, mate! Otherwise he would have had a third term.

Let us get real, OBJ has the opportunity to do so much and he would have gone into the history book as a savior.
OBJ cld have done something abt the electricity
He could have done something about the bad roads.
He cld have done something about security in Nigeria and now Nigeria would be among the best.
He could have make sure that the arrested politicians were truly jailed for stealing and whatever happens to all the money stolen?
All EFCC has done was going after some lil kids at the cybercafe, which is nice, but the bigger fishes are out there will billions stolen from me and you

Sagamite:

My point is that OBJ lacked the luxury of such powers and still achieved a lot (imo even more than Buhari/Idiagbon).

I disagree. . . . .

OBJ had no clue. . . . .I doubt he grasped the concept of good leadership when he was in power.
Compounding all the difficulties that Nigeria faced under OBJ was a resurgence of the ethnic and religious rivalry. The underlying cause was the collapse of government institutions, their failure to provide even basic services.

More than 150 clashes were recorded in the first 12 months of OBJ's regime. . . .The cause was often as much to do with mass poverty, unemployment, and crime and the government's failure to alleviate them as with religious belief. So many violent disputes broke out in the early years of OBJ's regime - over land, politics, religion, ethnicity and money. At times, it seems Nigeria was ungovernable in those years.

OBJ struggled valiantly to keep a lid on ethnic strife and to get to grips with the myriad of problems Nigeria faced.
He made Nigeria politics remain an arena for an elite group on the look-out for money-making opportunities, not a vehicle for pursuing economic and social reform. Nigeria were poorer in 2000 than they had been since independence. Half of the population lived on $0.30 a day. . .

Mannnnnnnnn, i can go on and on.

Fhemmmy:

hahaha, yeye man
Let us get real, OBJ has the opportunity to do so much and he would have gone into the history book as a savior.
OBJ cld have done something abt the electricity
He could have done something about the bad roads.
He cld have done something about security in Nigeria and now Nigeria would be among the best.
He could have make sure that the arrested politicians were truly jailed for stealing and whatever happens to all the money stolen?
All EFCC has done was going after some lil kids at the cybercafe, which is nice, but the bigger fishes are out there will billions stolen from me and you

Agreed he could have been a saviour and could have done far more if he was a refined, well-developed man but he still did alot and far more than any previous leader.

Nigeria's problem is too much and OBJ is a mere man (in his 60s for that matter).

There are only 24hrs in the day, he can't solve all our problems in 8 years.

Good start, but Yarafool is reversing it.

Sagamite:

Agreed he could have been a saviour and could have done far more if he was a refined, well-developed man but he still did alot and far more than any previous leader.

Nigeria's problem is too much and OBJ is a mere man (in his 60s for that matter).

There are only 24hrs in the day, he can't solve all our problems in 8 years.

Good start, but Yarafool is reversing it.

But he knew he was just a man in his 60s when he contested, or someone puts a gun into his head?
He appointed yar'fukc and make sure the guy won the election, so now no matter how much respect i have for him, for the fact that he appointed a man that will "revise" what you think he did, then, it means he is a man that lacks intelligence.

Fhemmmy:

But he knew he was just a man in his 60s when he contested, or someone puts a gun into his head?
He appointed yar'fukc and make sure the guy won the election, so now no matter how much respect i have for him, for the fact that he appointed a man that will "revise" what you think he did, then, it means he is a man that lacks intelligence.

Fixed!!!!!

~Sauron~:

I disagree. . . . .

OBJ had no clue. . . . .I doubt he grasped the concept of good leadership when he was in power.
Compounding all the difficulties that Nigeria faced under OBJ was a resurgence of the ethnic and religious rivalry. The underlying cause was the collapse of government institutions, their failure to provide even basic services.

More than 150 clashes were recorded in the first 12 months of OBJ's regime. . . .The cause was often as much to do with mass poverty, unemployment, and crime and the government's failure to alleviate them as with religious belief. So many violent disputes broke out in the early years of OBJ's regime - over land, politics, religion, ethnicity and money. At times, it seems Nigeria was ungovernable in those years.

OBJ struggled valiantly to keep a lid on ethnic strife and to get to grips with the myriad of problems Nigeria faced.
He made Nigeria politics remain an arena for an elite group on the look-out for money-making opportunities, not a vehicle for pursuing economic and social reform. Nigeria were poorer in 2000 than they had been since independence. Half of the population lived on $0.30 a day. . .

Mannnnnnnnn, i can go on and on.

Agreed he had poor leadership skills but his stubborness was as much his greatest strength as it was his weakness as Nigeria is full of lunatics that only recognise force.

You cannot blame OBJ for ethnic strife and all the others you listed above as that is just pent-up problems/frustrations from the military period that was unleashed by a populace boisted by the confidence of rights that democracy brings. Dem no born them well to do all those during Abacha's time.

~Sauron~:

Fixed!!!!!

Fixed by the fool called OBJ, cos he was trying to make sure the leader after him is never better than him, so that he cld look like a messiah

Fhemmmy:

But he knew he was just a man in his 60s when he contested, or someone puts a gun into his head?
He appointed yar'fukc and make sure the guy won the election, so now no matter how much respect i have for him, for the fact that he appointed a man that will "revise" what you think he did, then, it means he is a man that lacks intelligence.

That is your opinion, I disagree as I am am sure whilst he is solving the numerous problems he can not easily assess every facet of a human to predict accurately how they will turn out.

At least, he did not leave us with a James Ibori.

Sagamite:

Agreed he had poor leadership skills but his stubborness was as much his greatest strength as it was his weakness as Nigeria is full of lunatics that only recognise force.

You cannot blame OBJ for ethnic strife and all the others you listed above as that is just pent-up problems/frustrations from the military period that was unleashed by a populace boisted by the confidence of rights that democracy brings. Dem no born them well to do all those during Abacha's time.

he lacks good leadership and yet you calamining that he was the best we ever had?
During his time, how many times were the ASUU on strike.
During his time was when almost every one now has a school and even Atiku of all people has a University, and now the public schools are left to be a dust, cos now u can only go to school when u can afford to pay for private schooling or school out of Nigeria?
tell me what makes one a good president, when u have spent billions on electrical project with nothing to show for it, it is money we lacking, or would it be manpower?
During OBJ's tenure, people talks about forgiving of our debt, and be4 he left office, how much debt did he rack up again?

Sagamite:

Agreed he had poor leadership skills but his stubborness was as much his greatest strength as it was his weakness as Nigeria is full of lunatics that only recognise force.

Why is Yar'adua succeeding without being stubborn and obnoxious?

You cannot blame OBJ for ethnic strife and all the others you listed above as that is just pent-up problems/frustrations from the military period that was unleashed by a populace boisted by the confidence of rights that democracy brings. Dem no born them well to do all those during Abacha's time.

So who do you blame? If he had turned Nigeria to Canaan(a land flowing with milk n honey), he would have taken the credits.
Let him shoulder the blame for fucking Nigeria up the ass without prophylactics. I cannot stand OBJ or whatever he calls himself.
In his regime, Nigeria became the open sore of the African continent. . . .Shame on OBJ!!!!

Sagamite:

That is your opinion, I disagree as I am am sure whilst he is solving the numerous problems he can not easily assess every facet of a human to predict accurately how they will turn out.

At least, he did not leave us with a James Ibori.

It is my opinion and i stand by it.
I would rather have anyone to Yar'Dumbfool, cos the guy has done nothing to help Nigeria, he is a lame duck, and only a fool can appoint a fool to take his position

~Sauron~:

Why is Yar'adua succeeding without being stubborn and obnoxious?

So who do you blame? If he had turned Nigeria to Canaan(a land flowing with milk n honey), he would have taken the credits.
Let him shoulder the blame for fucking Nigeria up the ass without prophylactics. I cannot stand OBJ or whatever he calls himself.
In his regime, Nigeria became the open sore of the African continent. . . .Shame on OBJ!!!!

Nigeria will soon get electricity from Ghana, so waoh, good news, and thanks to OBJ.

Fhemmmy:

he lacks good leadership and yet you calamining that he was the best we ever had?
During his time, how many times were the ASUU on strike.
During his time was when almost every one now has a school and even Atiku of all people has a University, and now the public schools are left to be a dust, cos now u can only go to school when u can afford to pay for private schooling or school out of Nigeria?
tell me what makes one a good president, when u have spent billions on electrical project with nothing to show for it, it is money we lacking, or would it be manpower?
During OBJ's tenure, people talks about forgiving of our debt, and be4 he left office, how much debt did he rack up again?

Look, I don't care how many beans fell from your plate during OBJ tenure.

What I care about are the figures I gave you in the previous page, that is how I judge an administration.

The debt racked up is less than $3bn and by any standard set by the world's best economist it was a fabulous figure.

Sagamite:

Look, I don't care how many beans fell from your plate during OBJ tenure.

What I care about are the figures I gave you in the previous page, that is how I judge an administration.

The debt racked up is less than $3bn and by any standard set by the world's best economist it was a fabulous figure.

That is a fabulous figure, if there is anything to show for the figure.
Nothing was done and all the figure u gave me were the figures that OBJ send to people to make them clap for him at the enterance to any gathering, i am sorry, i am not one of those.
The woman that sell pepper under the bridge are living poorly than they were be4 OBJ.
car prices has skyrocketed.
Rents are off limit to salary earners.
Students cant afford school anymore.
yet we owe 3b$
No light
No water.
No good schools.
Nothing that we export
We cant refine our own Oil, we still import gas.
So tell me what were the 3B$ used for, i guess to rub palms and to pay salary of employees that dont even go to work/

~Sauron~:

Why is Yar'adua succeeding without being stubborn and obnoxious?

Huh?? Succeeding in what?

In dancing to this BeeGees song?

[flash=450,300]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/OCAjmuA1HDk[/flash]

What da Bleep are you talking about?

~Sauron~:

So who do you blame? If he had turned Nigeria to Canaan(a land flowing with milk n honey), he would have taken the credits.
Let him shoulder the blame for fucking Nigeria up the ass without prophylactics. I cannot stand OBJ or whatever he calls himself.
In his regime, Nigeria became the open sore of the African continent. . . .Shame on OBJ!!!!

I have to be realistic he is not a magician. I blame the long period of military dictatorship that fostered inequality.

If OBJ managed to stop this, he should have been sainted.

Fhemmmy:

That is a fabulous figure, if there is anything to show for the figure.
Nothing was done and all the figure u gave me were the figures that OBJ send to people to make them clap for him at the enterance to any gathering, i am sorry, i am not one of those.
The woman that sell pepper under the bridge are living poorly than they were be4 OBJ.
car prices has skyrocketed.
Rents are off limit to salary earners.
Students cant afford school anymore.
yet we owe 3b$
No light
No water.
No good schools.
Nothing that we export
We cant refine our own Oil, we still import gas.
So tell me what were the 3B$ used for, i guess to rub palms and to pay salary of employees that dont even go to work/

I have given you figures in the last page of what was achieved, most of your stuff above are conjectures and secondly, he will not solve all our problems is 8 years.

Sagamite:

Look, I don't care how many beans fell from your plate during OBJ tenure.

What I care about are the figures I gave you in the previous page, that is how I judge an administration.

The debt racked up is less than $3bn and by any standard set by the world's best economist it was a fabulous figure.

Sagamite, figures can be deceiving. . . .
OBJ had 8 years to make a change and he failed. . . .Comparing him to leaders who spent LESS than 2 years in power cannot be adjudged fair.
What was the quality of life of an average Nigerian in the Idiagbon days compared to OBJ's regime. . . .I know this will make you chuckle.

What was the state of leading institutions such as the civil service? Vast sums of money were pumped into them but they delivered few services.
Embezzlement and bribery were rife. . . . .I promise to tell my grandchildren about Okadigbo. .
The justice system was chaotic. Even under OBJ's democracy, prisoners were locked up without trials for years on end.

U keep forgetting the fact OBJ operated in a democratic government. . . .Comparing em to military dictators is not proper at all.

Sagamite:

I have given you figures in the last page of what was achieved, most of your stuff above are conjectures and secondly, he will not solve all our problems is 8 years.

If 8 years was not enuf to at least solve 1 thing that will have a lasting effect on the citizens, then, he was a useless leader

~Sauron~:

Sagamite, figures can be deceiving. . . .
OBJ had 8 years to make a change and he failed. . . .Comparing him to leaders who spent LESS than 2 years in power cannot be adjudged fair.
What was the quality of life of an average Nigerian in the Idiagbon days compared to OBJ's regime. . . .I know this will make you chuckle.

What was the state of leading institutions such as the civil service? Vast sums of money were pumped into them but they delivered few services.
Embezzlement and bribery were rife. . . . .I promise to tell my grandchildren about Okadigbo. .
The justice system was chaotic. Even under OBJ's democracy, prisoners were locked up without trials for years on end.

U keep forgetting the fact OBJ operated in a democratic government. . . .Comparing em to military dictators is not proper at all.

Let us even compare the time OBJ was a head of state to that of Buhari/Idiagbon, they still beat the dumb fool hands down.
OBJ has a chance 2ce and he failed.

~Sauron~:

Sagamite, figures can be deceiving. . . .
OBJ had 8 years to make a change and he failed. . . .Comparing him to leaders who spent LESS than 2 years in power cannot be adjudged fair.
What was the quality of life of an average Nigerian in the Idiagbon days compared to OBJ's regime. . . .I know this will make you chuckle.

The key question is "what was the quality of life before Idiagbon and what was the quality of life after him and what advantages did he have in achieving it".

OBJ improved Naija to the point, we all are returning.

~Sauron~:

What was the state of leading institutions such as the civil service? Vast sums of money were pumped into them but they delivered few services.
Embezzlement and bribery were rife. . . . .I promise to tell my grandchildren about Okadigbo. .
The justice system was chaotic. Even under OBJ's democracy, prisoners were locked up without trials for years on end.

No doubt more could have been done on corruption but even Transparency International (an independent body) observed OBJ improved things and the West also noted it too, ala Clinton visit.

~Sauron~:

U keep forgetting the fact OBJ operated in a democratic government. . . .Comparing em to military dictators is not proper at all.

I have above.

In Nigeria, democratic rule is a disadvantage so he had to work harder.

Sagamu dude!


Defending Aremu is fruitless man, he had all the power to do what he wanted and did only those he chose to QED.
More people probably died on his watch than Buhari/Idiagbon who were set on restoring Nigeria's glory only for the powers that be to say NO WAY, mko, obj and the likes are beyond any kind of defense, not even Johnny Cochran could have defended those two before a court presided over by Judge Ito.

Fhemmmy:

If 8 years was not enuf to at least solve 1 thing that will have a lasting effect on the citizens, then, he was a useless leader

The Queen of England would have knighted OBJ if only he had solved the epileptic power supply in Nigeria.
I don't care how Sagamite tries to flip the scripts. . . .OBJ was a nuisance.
He is a poor excuse of a good leader.

Sagamite:


Huh?? Succeeding in what?
What da Bleep are you talking about?

Coping with the shit OBJ and his goons left behind.
He hasn't sent troops to Odi village to maim innocent people(yet).

I have to be realistic he is not a magician. I blame the long period of military dictatorship that fostered inequality.
If OBJ managed to stop this, he should have been sainted.

Well. . . . .he didn't manage to stop it so he failed us as a leader. . . .
QED!!!