JMAN05:


Don't you think you are attributing to God what He is not? How can God knowingly create Satan to cause all the problem we see today just so that we can know He has aforementioned qualities? It appears something is missing sir.

No no no bro that's not what I meant . I meant that assuming there was no fall by man maybe we won't know God possessed these qualities -its an opinion . So what do you think ?

But isn't that different from the parent knowing what the child will become but giving birth to it anyway?

Its pretty tough describing how God's prescience works

bollify:


The question was actually if he knew of Satan's betrayer before even creating him. And if he does, why create him then in the first place. Was it so humanity can suffer like we currently are? Was it to show off his power in the future through creating hell for Satan, his followers and the rest of his creations?

God has the ability to foreknow the future. however, He evidently didn't use this ability during creation nor is there any need for that, since He was creating free moral agents.

Since he has the ability to foretell future event, he must have been able to foretell that Adam and Eve will eat the fruit and still went ahead to not only create the fruit but placed it in the centre of the garden. Isn't that a deliberate action to make humanity suffer?

No, that someone has the ability to do something does not mean that He will ALWAYS use it. God can foretell, but nothing in the scriptures shows that God foretold the aberration of Adam and Eve.

Since you agree that he foresaw the future of man and still went ahead to create the fruit in the garden and at the reach of man. Also create the devil knowing he will tempt them to eat this fruit. Then that's God tempting man.

It is true that ur comment is directed to him, but I think he is missing something in his reply. God didn't foretell what Adam and Eve will eventually do regarding the fruit.

KingEbukasBlog:


It depends on how you look at it . If there was no fall of mankind or the devil , you won't know much about God . You won't know that God is merciful through Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection for the remission of sin , you won't know that God is all knowing through the foretelling of the birth of Christ , His death and resurrection and His second coming ; You won't know that God has the power to overcome evil through the judgement of Satan and the devil's final defeat , you won't know of His ability to create the physical from a spiritual realm etc . So its all to God's glory . Think about it .

I would, for your sake delete this post from my mind's eye and believe you didn't type it

Pls, don't let this happen again, for your sake

KingEbukasBlog:



No no no bro that's not what I meant . I meant that assuming there was no fall by man maybe we won't know God possessed these qualities -its an opinion . So what do you think?

OK. My take can be seen above.

Its pretty tough describing how God's prescience works

I agree there is really much to learn about Him .

hopefulLandlord:


I would, for your sake delete this post from my mind's eye and believe you didn't type it

Pls, don't let this happen again, for your sake

That's my opinion . I clearly said we were discussing here not pontificating . And stop dismissing someone's argument as not worthy of consideration or absurd cos its a logical fallacy- stop pooh-poohing my argument instead refute it . Everyone strives to to better .

Ranchhoddas:
What I mean by those events are real is that they actually happened ie a sick person actually becomes healed after an activity (prayer, proclamation, incantation etc) was performed. Not necessarily that an external force made it happen as a response to the activity.

Are you implicitly suggesting that its fallacious - cum hoc ergo propter hoc - to claim that answers to prayers are not caused by praying at that particular moment .

JMAN05:


OK. My take can be seen above.

Its good . But I want you to see this

https://www.nairaland.com/3064045/does-god-think#44958235

My response to the question "Does God think " - so I tried explaining that since God has foreknowledge of events , He just needs to act out his forethoughts when the time comes .

God already knows what will happen in the future and since he is above and outside of the sphere of time , he sees all of eternity’s past and eternity’s future.

What do you think ?

I agree there is really much to learn about Him .

Yeah

KingEbukasBlog:


Its good . But I want you to see this

https://www.nairaland.com/3064045/does-god-think#44958235

My response to the question "Does God think " - so I tried explaining that since God has foreknowledge of events , He just needs to act out his forethoughts when the time comes .

God already knows what will happen in the future and since he is above and outside of the sphere of time , he sees all of eternity’s past and eternity’s future.

What do you think ?




Yeah

I have not check out the link. But I understand it to mean that God's omniscient is inherent rather than total (which I assume prescience represents). In other words, God has the ability to foreknow the future. This does not mean that He uses this ability always.

KingEbukasBlog:


Are you implicitly suggesting that its fallacious - cum hoc ergo propter hoc - to claim that answers to prayers are not caused by praying at that particular moment .

While the prayer, chant or incantation might trigger or catalyse the healing. It does not mean that an external necessarily mean that an external force responded to the 'prayer' and carried out the healing. This I think is why those miracles are not always reproducible (Not readily produced on demand).

JMAN05:


God has the ability to foreknow the future. however, He evidently didn't use this ability during creation nor is there any need for that, since He was creating free moral agents.



No, that someone has the ability to do something does not mean that He will ALWAYS use it. God can foretell, but nothing in the scriptures shows that God foretold the aberration of Adam and Eve.



It is true that ur comment is directed to him, but I think he is missing something in his reply. God didn't foretell what Adam and Eve will eventually do regarding the fruit.

If I'm to understand you properly, God did not use his ability because he think his creations are perfect. However, the creation didn't turn out to be as perfect as he actually thought as can be seen in Satan and in Adam and Eve.

Please don't try to tell me they were perfect before they sinned because if they were, they would never have made mistakes as there is no mistake in perfection.

Ranchhoddas:
While the prayer, chant or incantation might trigger or catalyse the healing. It does not mean that an external necessarily mean that an external force responded to the 'prayer' and carried out the healing. This I think is why those miracles are not always reproducible (Not readily produced on demand).

Which church do you attend ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Which church do you attend ?

It's not a popular one. Though it's fashioned after Winner's Chapel. I haven't attended in a long while though(last time Easter Sunday and before that December 31st).

Ranchhoddas:
It's not a popular one. Though it's fashioned after Winner's Chapel. I haven't attended in a long while though(last time Easter Sunday and before that December 31st).

Have you ever shared a testimony in church before ?

KingEbukasBlog:

Have you ever shared a testimony in church before ?

Not really. Why?

bollify:



If I'm to understand you properly, God did not use his ability because he think his creations are perfect. However, the creation didn't turn out to be as perfect as he actually thought as can be seen in Satan and in Adam and Eve.

Please don't try to tell me they were perfect before they sinned because if they were, they would never have made mistakes as there is no mistake in perfection.

God created them as free moral agents. God's intention is to create persons who will use their free will to serve/obey Him. As such, no need to keep probing whether they will turn out to serve Him or not. If He were to view their future, and eventually correcting any perceived future anormally, will He say He is creating those who will on their own serve Him? Or is He creating persons programmed to serve Him? Granted, God can create programmed individuals, but He chose not to create humans that way. There are other inanimate things He created to do as He wants, not humans.

Weather to obey Him or not is their's to make. He didnt foretell what their future will be.

Ranchhoddas:
Not really. Why?

I really wanted to know if you have witnessed God's benisons in your life .Or experienced something extraordinary that would indurate your faith and make it infrangible

KingEbukasBlog:


I really wanted to know if you have witnessed God's benisons in your life .Or experienced something extraordinary that would indurate your faith and make it infrangible

I haven't. The ones I thought I had now have rational explanations.

Ranchhoddas:
I haven't. The ones I thought I had now have rational explanations.

Rational explanations or what the atheists inveigled you to believe ?

JMAN05:


I have not check out the link. But I understand it to mean that God's omniscient is inherent rather than total (which I assume prescience represents). In other words, God has the ability to foreknow the future. This does not mean that He uses this ability always.

Why do you think God does not use that ability ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Rational explanations or what the atheists inveigled you to believe ?

Nope. Conclusions I arrived at myself. Now I think that apart from a personal epiphany (Paul to Damascus kind), I don't think I'd be able to ignore the 'irregularities' that abound in faith/religion.

Ranchhoddas:
Nope. Conclusions I arrived at myself. Now I think that apart from a personal epiphany (Paul to Damascus kind), I don't think I'd be able to ignore the 'irregularities' that abound in faith/religion.

So what are these "irregularities" ?

KingEbukasBlog:


So what are these "irregularities" ?

Are you serious? All the threads on Nairaland would be a good start.

Ranchhoddas:
Are you serious? All the threads on Nairaland would be a good start.

I haven't seen any of those threads . We Christians have had disquisitions on probably every argument tabled by the atheists . Right now , there is nothing new . What atheists do now is to rehash old arguments - very vapid .

KingEbukasBlog:


I haven't seen any of those threads . We Christians have had disquisitions on probably every argument tabled by the atheists . Right now , there is nothing new . What atheists do now is to rehash old arguments - very vapid .

Except that you are usually on the losing side of those disquisitions. Let's face it, the atheists have a superior argument. You have no proof- one that can withstand rigorous scrutiny.

Ranchhoddas:
Except that you are usually on the losing side of those disquisitions. Let's face it, the atheists have a superior argument. You have no proof- one that can withstand rigorous scrutiny.

I knew you were an atheist . Superior argument my nyash .

KingEbukasBlog:


I knew you were an atheist . Superior argument my nyash .

This made me laugh so hard. How did you arrive at this conclusion? I only try to be as objective as possible. The only thing you have is faith and reason trumps faith. You know this.

Ranchhoddas:
This made me laugh so hard. How did you arrive at this conclusion? I only try to be as objective as possible. The only thing you have is faith and reason trumps faith. You know this.

I am not going to have a discussion with a dishonest fellow .I'm yet to see any reasonable argument from any atheist . Gosh .. bro ... you had to lie just to say this crap ? Na you oo

There is no point too low for an atheist , anything -lies , deceit , pretense - they've got it all .

Jehovah Witnesses knocked On The Wrong Door


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuomB-SPYuk

KingEbukasBlog:


I am not going to have a discussion with a dishonest fellow .I'm yet to see any reasonable argument from any atheist . Gosh .. bro ... you had to lie just to say this crap ? Na you oo

There is no point too low for an atheist , anything -lies , deceit , pretense - they've got it all .

False accusations. Please point out the lie(s).

Ranchhoddas:
False accusations. Please point out the lie(s).

The lies are :

1. That you are not atheist

2. Atheists have superior arguments

You need to get acquainted with logically fallacies and false arguments like specious arguments . Most of these atheists are sophists

Pay attention to the underlined words .

I thought you'd be fun to discuss with , I was wrong apparently . So

KingEbukasBlog:


The lies are :

1. That you are not atheist

2. Atheists have superior arguments

You need to get acquainted with logically fallacies and false arguments like specious arguments . Most of these atheists are sophists

Pay attention to the underlined words .

I thought you'd be fun to discuss with , I was wrong apparently . So

You clearly do not understand what it means to be objective. An atheist denies a Higher Power. I don't.

Ranchhoddas:
You clearly do not understand what it means to be objective. An atheist denies a Higher Power. I don't.

And that's the lie .