Nigerians should stop sounding clueless and vague in reasoning. Under Gen Sani Abacha, the economy of the nation was more stable than it is todaY. While he didn't pay owed debts, he didn't borrow more. The economy was more stable and food prices much lesser than obtains today? How much was a bottle of coke? N15, and what was the price of a litre of fuel? Had he been left to spend up to 12 years, maybe he would have had no need to loot again as already acquired wealth would have geometrically increased and the focus would have been on people's living standards, but alas, that wasn't to be. WHY DID WE WANT HIM OUT Because the people wanted FREEDOM. Ask all of those who fled  Nigeria which they would have preferred, more cool accounts or freedom, and you know what the answer  will be. Finances are good, but not at the expense of freedom. This isn't to justify America's unwarranted interference in the affairs of other sovereign nations, They too will soon experience a revolution against their pokenosing tendencies. Thatz 4 now!

It's odd, but not necessarily surprising, that critics of the Libya intervention were calling it any number of things: mistake, quagmire, dangerous, an Iraq repeat, and so on. It is odd because the ultimate outcome -- the rebels winning and Qaddafi falling -- never seemed much in doubt. It was a matter of when, not if. For both better and worse, Libya confirms the reality that the role of external actors (in this case, the United States and Europe) can still be decisive in the Arab struggle for freedom.

We should always tread carefully with counterfactuals. But it is difficult to deny that the alternative to doing something -- doing nothing -- would almost certainly have led to a bloody, tragic massacre in Benghazi and other pockets of rebel resistance. Libya would have likely been held up as one of the great tragedies of Western neglect or outright subversion, on par with Iran in 1953 or Algeria and Iraq in the early 1990s. When you have the ability to act, doing nothing is no longer a neutral position.

To be sure, this is not a time for settling scores. But it is a time for arguing for the utility, necessity, and morality of a doctrine -- the Responsibility to Protect -- that seemed, to its opponents, increasingly discredited. Another reality -- again, for both better and worse -- is that the United States remains something of an "indispensable nation," a notion increasingly in disrepute. Without American support, however belated, the responsibility to protect would have remained mere rhetoric and posturing. The NATO intervention would not have happened.

That said, we should be careful not to overstate the strategic benefits of President Obama's chosen course of action the past six months. Foreign Policy's Blake Hounshell argues that the administration's strategy of "leading from behind" now "seems utterly vindicated." It is unclear why this would be so. If anything, it could be argued, as I did in March, that Obama's excessive caution made a bad situation even worse. If the U.S. and the international community had intervened sooner -- rather than at the very last moment when rebels were making their final stand -- Qaddafi would have fallen sooner and without such loss of life and destruction.

This, lest we forget, is how the rebels themselves saw the situation in March. They were literally begging the United States to take action. When their calls were met with silence, Iman Bughaigis, spokeswoman for the rebels, fumed that "[The West] has lost any credibility." In a veiled but obvious reference to the fence-sitters, she continued, "I am not crying out of weakness , But we will never forget the people who stood with us and the people who betrayed us."

With the Obama administration dragging its feet, French foreign minister Alain Juppe conceded that it was perhaps too late for military intervention. In other words, what seems like such a success now was then very much in doubt. Even after NATO stepped in, the complaints continued; NATO could do more but wasn't, rebel officials argued, in part due to U.S. insistence on "letting others lead." There was also an (understandable) reticence on the part of the Obama administration and its allies to more pro-actively arm and train Libyan rebel forces. But such hesitation, however prudent, came at a cost.

Finally, it is worth nothing that one of the rationales for the Libya intervention -- that it would have a powerful demonstration effect across the Arab world -- is being vindicated (after being much maligned by Daniel Larison and others critics of the war). In the face of overwhelming repression in Syria and Bahrain and setbacks in Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen, Arabs needed a victory. There was a growing sense that the euphoria on February 11 -- the day Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak stepped down -- was rather premature. It was. But, now, all across the region, protesters and revolutionaries are once again emboldened, reminded that the unlikely is still possible. They are warning their own stubborn leaders -- Assad in Syria and Saleh in Yemen -- that they are next. Today, then, the region's revolutionaries face their own daunting struggles with more momentum and more hope. That is no small thing. Neither is the newfound freedom of millions of Libyans, who will now have the opportunity, for the first time, to rebuild their shattered nation on their own terms.

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2011/0822_libya_hamid.aspx

Might has always been right in the eyes of America & her allies
America believes she can dictate which govt shd be attacked
Usually she starts subtly and draws lackeys like Britain
Her motive has always been Economy, who 2 exploit

With all these attributes of Gaddafi I wonder y he was unable to muster enough sopprt
The rebels will surely face enormous obstacles
Libya will never be the same again
& I pity A U that failed to raise eyebrows

Gaddafi`s was outspoken, against Imperialism
America has never been comfortable with that stance,
Africa has lost a gem,
Agreed Gaddafi has some dark sides, who hasnt

check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWtLlFjzRVw

PStylish:

@All

Chei.
Most of you guys that posted in favour of Ghaddafi are all very du.ll.

I mean you are all o.des

You are all supposed to be Nigerians so where did you get your slavic/communist mentality

from?

There is a saying that a thin free man is better than a fat slave.What do you make of that?

We had Abacha some years back and he was already taking tutorials from Gaddafi on how to be

sit-tight dictator.What happened? We resisted and took him out.

There were successful uprisings in Algeria and Egypt.The leaders there took the path of honour and bowed out with little pressure.The army they banked on to shoot the protesters refused and chose to be professional.

[s]Libyans saw these and decided it was high time they saw Gadafi's back[/s].The army couldnt

support Gaddafi hence the use of mercenaries to quel the rebellion.

Did the West trigger the uprisings?

[s]Had the West not been doing business in Libya during the Gaddafi era[/s]?

[s]Majority of the country had fallen into rebel hands long before  NATO operations began
[/s]
[s]courtesy of defecting soldiers.Gaddafi struck back with full force and a genocide was about to take place in Benghazi before the UN intervened.
[/s]
[s]How can any one tell me the crowds jubilating in martyr square,Tripoli and Benghazi are fake [/s]

or hired?
Guys please grow up.

DSTv, facebook, Twitter, BlackBerry e.t.c opened the eyes of Libyans to the slavic lifestyle

they lived under Gaddafi and they immediately wanted out.Gaddafi shouldnt have stood in the

way.[s]Also, Libyans who have lived abroad know the better life and desired it for their people.
To hell with his $60k and $500 piecemeal.[/s]

Reports say the NTC will conduct electons in 8 months.Is that not awesome for a country that

has never had a constitution?

The whole world(including the Arab league) except spoilers like China and Russia and the

likes our own clueless AU-bunch of dictators themselves and id.iots- are in support of the

NTC.Thank God Nigeria was never in support of the AU.

What I noticed is that most of you guys in favour of Gaddafi are not home based.Hence, the

bad belle against your foreign lords who continue to drive you like slaves.Please come back

home and stop allowing the imagined ghost of the oyinbos haunt you.

[s]There is nothing wrong in the West recouping the money spent on the war.
[/s]
The whole world has learnt from the Iraq mistake and I can assure you it wont repeat

itself.The NTC has been very cautious and magnanimous in their speeches so far.It is the

mercenaries that are going to fight to death because there is no escape route.

Pakistan was never invaded by the West neither did NATO topple its govt yet, the suicide

attacks and violence in Pakistan far surpasses that of Iraq and Afghanistan lately.

Could tell your age the moment i read your piece(no-offence),lack of in-depth understanding of International politics and gross display of vague reasoning.First-off i am a 'home based' Nigerian and i see and articulate issues with unbiased & realistic perceptions and not because there is a band wagon of followers who think it is right.I believe that regimes like those of Ghadaffi and likes are undemocratic and totalitarian and needs to give way for the emergence of a more democratic institution.However ousting him by 'all-means' is grossly counter productive and leaves much to be desired by these executors of this modern era of 'jungle' justice.

I really wonder if you ever carried a placard during any peaceful demonstrations during the era of Abacha or even aired your views at the time in a social gathering with friends sorry i forgot you were in primary school at the time, at-least voice your view in the midst of your peers at the time.

What was the reported number of persons who staged a peaceful demonstration against the regime of Ghadaffi? But we are all aware of the magnitude of person who gathered day and night in Trafalgar-square.

I will not go into details on my findings and knowledge of the ultimate plot for the down fall of the Arab world regimes by the Western world because it will be too advanced for your grasp & assimilation.Why are they not in Zimbabwe,Syria(over 2,200 civilians have died so far)etc.

To imagine you believe everything you see on the television far explains your state of mind and level of understanding.You are very gullible and will be in jail before they realize you are 'Ernest' a look-alike to a wanted gangster.

Frankly i recommend you for American full citizenship and rights so that you can appreciate better what it means to earn $500/month and you call that 'piece meal' for someone who does no work to earn such money,it either you are deluded or your parents are among the corrupt government or public personnel who will soon be visitors to EFCC or ICPC.

For you to see nothing wrong in oppressive and manipulative acquisition of another mans wealth as though you are now the 'judge' of the entire world for a war you invited yourself out of selfish reasons then you must have dictatorial tendencies little wonder i will not be surprised if your father is Obasanjo.

money is nothing without Freedom!

I weep for dis nation, imagine some ppl clamouring for a leader like gadafi if they can just have good roads, power, health. That means our leader are worse than gaddafi, they loot and still deny us these stuff. Dat day!

hmmm, my heart goes out to libya and libyans , in  a year they gonna be worse off than somalia, this is what post- Gadaffi gonna look like , there will be a

re-visit to the Cold war when it was democratic-west versus  communist-east..( how funnny to see that its the so-called democratic countries invading

countries) i see russia and china wanting a piece of the libyan resources and the NATO countries that invaded libya namely, uk, france italy, usa holding a

firm stand, besides that, libya have got 140 tribes scattered all over libya but the most influential ones are based in the east are namely Abu Llail (anti-

Qaddafi), Misurata (anti-Qaddafi) and the west namely Qadhafah (pro-Qaddafi), Magariha (alliance unclear) and aside that there is the LIFG (Libyan Islamic

Fighting Group) jihadists  which is Al Qaeda-aligned.

As it as been with tribes in africa the relatively small tribes are always the influential ones and they are most active in government while the most populated

tribes are left to poverty as its been in Rwanda and prolly nigeria which might led to some form of civil unrest. Been of an ethic minority would be a terrible

thing, at the present there have been reported cases of black Arabs have been killed and raped because of their alliance to Gadaffi and purported propaganda

from the west that black africans are working as mercenaries for Gadaffi, then there are the 2% of christians.

Long before the NATO invasion of Libya Qaddafi's son isn't the only one warning of civil war because of Libya's unique makeup. World leaders from President

Barack Obama to French President Nicolas Sarkozy have all expressed such concern, and many diplomats, intelligence agents, and analysts agree that if

Qaddafi goes, civil war erupts

Maslow's Law of hierarchy  - Food,  Shelter, Clothing, Self expression or actualization .

No president should be so tyrannical that he aims to rule forever and then have his son take over, this is 2011.

Is Gaddafi the only Libyan , that can lead, again libya is not a family run busines its a nation and only the  people

have the right to choose their Leader, no one has a right to impose himself on others,

There is only one who is like none other and He alone is GOD !!!

Libyans want to choose their leaders and express themselves , they no longer want to be puppets who get crumplets, money is not everything , Self actualization is more imortant and on a higher plane than money/shelter/clothing etc

The Libyan people want more and i support that,

As for Nato those ones are after oil but then again if Gaddaffi was Mandela and left room for continuation then outside vultures will have to access. 

By siddoning put he exposed the people of Libya to this war.

.

1. The government of Muammar brought the Libyan government from poverty and debt, to prosperity and debt-free status in 41 years

2. Education from grade school through to college is free in Libya.

3. Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.

4. Libya ranks No. 53 on the United Nations Index of Human Development.

5. Libya has the highest standard of living in Africa (even better than South Africa,Mauritius and Seychelles).

6. Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.

7. There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home.

8. Women in Libya have equal rights, not only as a philosophy, but in practice.

9. Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month.

10. On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please

God have mercy, Libyans will suffer as they have bowed to Westerners, I am not saying that Ghadaffi did not do wrong, he was also at fault also, but they should not embarrassed their hero, Libyans welcome to suffer

Libyans are fighting for their rights! Whatever they do with those rights is left for them to decide. You can't tell me there is nobody in all of Libya that can rule better than Gaddafi.

Please, let's remove sentiment from it, do you guys in defense of Gaddifi think there is no educated Libyan(more educated than Gaddafi) in the country that can rule?

Gaddaffi had to go anyway. He had become too power drunk for his own good and clearly like a real  African king he has begun to feels that he is the all-wise and beyond reproach. It is the matter of who takes over that is the problem.
The whole world will soon see that the rebels are fighting for a new Gaddafi-like replacement ; the new March 7 "god' of liberation.  i predict that fool who calls himself the leader of NTC will be executed next ; give them 3 months , and then the West will begin to see pepper.
As someone mentioned Aljazeera , the superpower countries have no friends; only "interests" and in matters like this their decision are never moral ; and that is why we have seen the forceful ouster of a person they don't like under some cooked up ideals. After Gaddafi, let;s see who NATO begins to point its gun at in Libya. The situation will make Iraq and Somalia like child's play. If Italy's Mussolini could be woken up he would have reminded them that Libyans are mad dogs and they have no friends either , only heroes.
If Gaddafi dies now he becomes a martyr and for next hundred years Libya will burn with inter tribal wars. I am already sorry for libya

^^^^
Are you telling me it's a single tribe that is responsible for the rebel group? Leave that tribal talk aside and Libyans know about that before going about the war.

I think Libya will be better off than what people are making it to look like here. Even those who benefited from Gaddafi regime are fed up of the man tyranny. No war order than this. As far as it couldn't happen during the time Gaddafi assassinated the King and the only son that fled to US tribe didn't call for war so, I can't see something like that happening when Gaddafi have terrorized both friends and foes in the country.

There is nothing wrong in addressing every angle. But, I still think this will be the last war for the time being.

all4naija:

^^^^
Are you telling me it's a single tribe that is responsible for the rebel group? Leave that tribal talk aside and Libyans know about that before going about the war.

I think Libya will be better off than what people are making it to look like here. Even those who benefited from Gaddafi regime are fed up of[b] the man tyranny[/b]. No war order than this. As far as it couldn't happen during the time Gaddafi assassinated the King and the only son that fled to US tribe didn't call for war so, I can't see something like that happening when Gaddafi have terrorized both friends and foes in the country.

There is nothing wrong in addressing every angle. But, I still think this will be the last war for the time being.

I am not telling you anything sir. Frankly for me you don't exist in this discussion. I also advise that you go look up your dictionary for the meaning of "tyranny'. Cheers

Poster, Are you okay?

Libya has finally entered into the hands of radical islam.its now an iranian proxy just like egypt.this was what mubarak and ghadaffi were trying to prevent.they had their excesses though.libya and egypt are going to be worse off.watch out.

@felifeli

I intend not to reply you but I think you need to know what TYRANNY means by dictionary definition - as you request me to check it up from the dictionary. Anyway, I am going to give you the general dictionary definition not what it connotes.

Tyranny(noun)means[b] a government in which a single ruler is vested with absolute power[/b] - by online dictionary definition.And, I would like you to tell me why Gaddafi is not a tyranny in your dictionary.

dan_dollar:

Libya has finally entered into the hands of radical islam.its now an iranian proxy just like egypt.this was what mubarak and ghadaffi were trying to prevent.they had their excesses though.libya and egypt are going to be worse off.watch out.

Everybody with their theories.

Some are claiming Libya has falling to Western Powers.

Others are claiming Iran and radical Islamist have taken over Libya.

But one thing is certain Gaddafi is gone after 42years

Just imagine $60,000 after getting married, majority of Nigerians can't even save up to that in their entire life.

^^^^
What's the meaning of that? Stop raising your ugly head every time you hear of Nigeria. I better work for my $60,000 than be given for free. Keep waiting for free money(benefit is supposed to be for jobless people) to sustain your family when others are becoming business tycoons. Boohoo!

emmatok:

Everybody with their theories.

Some are claiming Libya has falling to Western Powers.

Others are claiming Iran and radical Islamist have taken over Libya.

But one thing is certain Gaddafi is gone after 42years

time will tell.I guess you see the way egypt is heading.it won't be hidden it will be in the news.

Why do some Africans find it difficult to reason well?

Imagine some insane, expected-of-the-apes comments on this thread. To your tent . . . . . .

SMH

Wat a pity, i can c darkness in deir future NATO hv totally failed them, d fact stil remain dt democracy can neva wrk in Africa.

Their is nothing any external force or NATO can do as per interfaring in a nation's affairs without the support of the citizens themselves! The people of libya wanted ghadafi to go, they were tired of his absolute and undemocratic control of libya!
Why has NATO or external forces not interfared in the affairs of saudi arabia and opposed the monarchy practised in the kingdom? It is simply because the people of saudi arabia are still contented and have no problems with the monarchical system practised in their country, but this wasn't the case in libya!

Libya will now promote homosexuality, child pornography, women slapping husbands in the face, children gunning down or jailing their own parents. Welcome to the messy world of Demon -Cracy.
By the way, the chinese are doing better than  the western world although out there in China, around 1.5 billion people live under a unique political party. Western countries including the USA  are doing business with china.

@Nyntynplus

Why did you think democracy can't work in Africa? South Africa, Kenya,Ghana,Senegal,Mauritius,Namibia,etc are good example of democratic societies in Africa. I think it is a matter of time for others to understand how democracy can work better for their various countries.

all4naija:

@Nyntynplus

Why did you think democracy can't work in Africa? South Africa, Kenya,Ghana,Senegal,Mauritius,Namibia,etc are good example of democratic societies in Africa. I think it is a matter of time for others to understand how democracy can work better for their various countries.

Yeah, very very very very very good. As in goodest

panafrican:

Libya will now promote homosexuality, child Indecency, women slapping husbands in the face, children gunning down or jailing their own parents. Welcome to the messy world of Demon -Cracy.
By the way, the chinese are doing better than  the western world although out there in China, around 1.5 billion people live under a unique political party. Western countries including the USA  are doing business with china.

Really, so all those mullahs who marry 12 year olds, cut off people's hands and stone women who have been abused to death are the creators of a "FREE SOCEITY"!!!!!!!!

You need to douse yourself with water and stick your head into a Microwave oven.

People always think the grass is greener on the other side. Good luck to Libya and her people. They need it in multiple folds. God help them.

playmode=topic=743332.msg9000770#msg9000770 date=1314231660:


The GOOD


1. The government of Muammar brought the Libyan government from poverty and debt, to prosperity and debt-free status in 41 years

2. Education from grade school through to college is free in Libya. IT IS THE SAME IN ALL ARAB COUNTRIES, including Egypt, Tunisia, Syria …etc

3. Healthcare is free IT IS THE SAME IN ALL ARAB COUNTRIES and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities, BLOODY LIE, if a Libyan gets injured, he probably goes to Egypt or Tunisia

4. Libya ranks No. 53 on the United Nations Index of Human Development. CONVERT OR TRANSLATE THIS IN REAL LIFE

5. Libya has the highest standard of living in Africa (even better than South Africa,Mauritius and Seychelles). WITH 6 BILLION US DOLLARS INCOME AND 6 MILLION POPULATION, what do you expect. However when you go out of Tripoli, you wont see a rich country. Some Libyans still growing goats for keeping alive

6. Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land. BLOODY LIE

7. There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home.

8. Women in Libya have equal rights, not only as a philosophy, but in practice.
ALL LIBYANS HAD NO RIGHTS
9. Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month.
WHEN THE REVOLUTION BEGAN, HE SAID IF YOU PEOPLE DO NT LIKE THE WAY OF SHARING THE MONEY THEN LET’S INCREASE IT
10. On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please

I could list a few more but my point is that here in Nigeria we are yet to really enjoy any if not all of the the above.

The bad:

Lack of democracy, opposition movements have always been dealt with harshly

The state was virtually family owned

Military involvement and meddling in other North African countries as well as support for despots like Charles Taylor. WHY YOU DID NT MENTION TO Ireland, Philippine and every conflicted spot in the world