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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Foreign Affairs / Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? (19316 Views)
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Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Ohibenemma(m): 8:08pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Nigerians should stop sounding clueless and vague in reasoning. Under Gen Sani Abacha, the economy of the nation was more stable than it is todaY. While he didn't pay owed debts, he didn't borrow more. The economy was more stable and food prices much lesser than obtains today? How much was a bottle of coke? N15, and what was the price of a litre of fuel? Had he been left to spend up to 12 years, maybe he would have had no need to loot again as already acquired wealth would have geometrically increased and the focus would have been on people's living standards, but alas, that wasn't to be. WHY DID WE WANT HIM OUT Because the people wanted FREEDOM. Ask all of those who fled Nigeria which they would have preferred, more cool accounts or freedom, and you know what the answer will be. Finances are good, but not at the expense of freedom. This isn't to justify America's unwarranted interference in the affairs of other sovereign nations, They too will soon experience a revolution against their pokenosing tendencies. Thatz 4 now! |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by chamber2(m): 8:16pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
It's odd, but not necessarily surprising, that critics of the Libya intervention were calling it any number of things: mistake, quagmire, dangerous, an Iraq repeat, and so on. It is odd because the ultimate outcome -- the rebels winning and Qaddafi falling -- never seemed much in doubt. It was a matter of when, not if. For both better and worse, Libya confirms the reality that the role of external actors (in this case, the United States and Europe) can still be decisive in the Arab struggle for freedom. We should always tread carefully with counterfactuals. But it is difficult to deny that the alternative to doing something -- doing nothing -- would almost certainly have led to a bloody, tragic massacre in Benghazi and other pockets of rebel resistance. Libya would have likely been held up as one of the great tragedies of Western neglect or outright subversion, on par with Iran in 1953 or Algeria and Iraq in the early 1990s. When you have the ability to act, doing nothing is no longer a neutral position. To be sure, this is not a time for settling scores. But it is a time for arguing for the utility, necessity, and morality of a doctrine -- the Responsibility to Protect -- that seemed, to its opponents, increasingly discredited. Another reality -- again, for both better and worse -- is that the United States remains something of an "indispensable nation," a notion increasingly in disrepute. Without American support, however belated, the responsibility to protect would have remained mere rhetoric and posturing. The NATO intervention would not have happened. That said, we should be careful not to overstate the strategic benefits of President Obama's chosen course of action the past six months. Foreign Policy's Blake Hounshell argues that the administration's strategy of "leading from behind" now "seems utterly vindicated." It is unclear why this would be so. If anything, it could be argued, as I did in March, that Obama's excessive caution made a bad situation even worse. If the U.S. and the international community had intervened sooner -- rather than at the very last moment when rebels were making their final stand -- Qaddafi would have fallen sooner and without such loss of life and destruction. This, lest we forget, is how the rebels themselves saw the situation in March. They were literally begging the United States to take action. When their calls were met with silence, Iman Bughaigis, spokeswoman for the rebels, fumed that "[The West] has lost any credibility." In a veiled but obvious reference to the fence-sitters, she continued, "I am not crying out of weakness , But we will never forget the people who stood with us and the people who betrayed us." With the Obama administration dragging its feet, French foreign minister Alain Juppe conceded that it was perhaps too late for military intervention. In other words, what seems like such a success now was then very much in doubt. Even after NATO stepped in, the complaints continued; NATO could do more but wasn't, rebel officials argued, in part due to U.S. insistence on "letting others lead." There was also an (understandable) reticence on the part of the Obama administration and its allies to more pro-actively arm and train Libyan rebel forces. But such hesitation, however prudent, came at a cost. Finally, it is worth nothing that one of the rationales for the Libya intervention -- that it would have a powerful demonstration effect across the Arab world -- is being vindicated (after being much maligned by Daniel Larison and others critics of the war). In the face of overwhelming repression in Syria and Bahrain and setbacks in Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen, Arabs needed a victory. There was a growing sense that the euphoria on February 11 -- the day Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak stepped down -- was rather premature. It was. But, now, all across the region, protesters and revolutionaries are once again emboldened, reminded that the unlikely is still possible. They are warning their own stubborn leaders -- Assad in Syria and Saleh in Yemen -- that they are next. Today, then, the region's revolutionaries face their own daunting struggles with more momentum and more hope. That is no small thing. Neither is the newfound freedom of millions of Libyans, who will now have the opportunity, for the first time, to rebuild their shattered nation on their own terms. http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2011/0822_libya_hamid.aspx |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by nsiadi: 8:21pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Might has always been right in the eyes of America & her allies America believes she can dictate which govt shd be attacked Usually she starts subtly and draws lackeys like Britain Her motive has always been Economy, who 2 exploit With all these attributes of Gaddafi I wonder y he was unable to muster enough sopprt The rebels will surely face enormous obstacles Libya will never be the same again & I pity A U that failed to raise eyebrows Gaddafi`s was outspoken, against Imperialism America has never been comfortable with that stance, Africa has lost a gem, Agreed Gaddafi has some dark sides, who hasnt |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by kosoro: 8:21pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWtLlFjzRVw |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by bossinie: 8:36pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
PStylish: Could tell your age the moment i read your piece(no-offence),lack of in-depth understanding of International politics and gross display of vague reasoning.First-off i am a 'home based' Nigerian and i see and articulate issues with unbiased & realistic perceptions and not because there is a band wagon of followers who think it is right.I believe that regimes like those of Ghadaffi and likes are undemocratic and totalitarian and needs to give way for the emergence of a more democratic institution.However ousting him by 'all-means' is grossly counter productive and leaves much to be desired by these executors of this modern era of 'jungle' justice. I really wonder if you ever carried a placard during any peaceful demonstrations during the era of Abacha or even aired your views at the time in a social gathering with friends sorry i forgot you were in primary school at the time, at-least voice your view in the midst of your peers at the time. What was the reported number of persons who staged a peaceful demonstration against the regime of Ghadaffi? But we are all aware of the magnitude of person who gathered day and night in Trafalgar-square. I will not go into details on my findings and knowledge of the ultimate plot for the down fall of the Arab world regimes by the Western world because it will be too advanced for your grasp & assimilation.Why are they not in Zimbabwe,Syria(over 2,200 civilians have died so far)etc. To imagine you believe everything you see on the television far explains your state of mind and level of understanding.You are very gullible and will be in jail before they realize you are 'Ernest' a look-alike to a wanted gangster. Frankly i recommend you for American full citizenship and rights so that you can appreciate better what it means to earn $500/month and you call that 'piece meal' for someone who does no work to earn such money,it either you are deluded or your parents are among the corrupt government or public personnel who will soon be visitors to EFCC or ICPC. For you to see nothing wrong in oppressive and manipulative acquisition of another mans wealth as though you are now the 'judge' of the entire world for a war you invited yourself out of selfish reasons then you must have dictatorial tendencies little wonder i will not be surprised if your father is Obasanjo. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by 49cents(m): 8:43pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
money is nothing without Freedom! |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nobody: 8:55pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
I weep for dis nation, imagine some ppl clamouring for a leader like gadafi if they can just have good roads, power, health. That means our leader are worse than gaddafi, they loot and still deny us these stuff. Dat day! |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Builder: 8:56pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
hmmm, my heart goes out to libya and libyans , in a year they gonna be worse off than somalia, this is what post- Gadaffi gonna look like , there will be a re-visit to the Cold war when it was democratic-west versus communist-east..( how funnny to see that its the so-called democratic countries invading countries) i see russia and china wanting a piece of the libyan resources and the NATO countries that invaded libya namely, uk, france italy, usa holding a firm stand, besides that, libya have got 140 tribes scattered all over libya but the most influential ones are based in the east are namely Abu Llail (anti- Qaddafi), Misurata (anti-Qaddafi) and the west namely Qadhafah (pro-Qaddafi), Magariha (alliance unclear) and aside that there is the LIFG (Libyan Islamic Fighting Group) jihadists which is Al Qaeda-aligned. As it as been with tribes in africa the relatively small tribes are always the influential ones and they are most active in government while the most populated tribes are left to poverty as its been in Rwanda and prolly nigeria which might led to some form of civil unrest. Been of an ethic minority would be a terrible thing, at the present there have been reported cases of black Arabs have been killed and raped because of their alliance to Gadaffi and purported propaganda from the west that black africans are working as mercenaries for Gadaffi, then there are the 2% of christians. Long before the NATO invasion of Libya Qaddafi's son isn't the only one warning of civil war because of Libya's unique makeup. World leaders from President Barack Obama to French President Nicolas Sarkozy have all expressed such concern, and many diplomats, intelligence agents, and analysts agree that if Qaddafi goes, civil war erupts |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by horny4u(f): 9:26pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Maslow's Law of hierarchy - Food, Shelter, Clothing, Self expression or actualization . No president should be so tyrannical that he aims to rule forever and then have his son take over, this is 2011. Is Gaddafi the only Libyan , that can lead, again libya is not a family run busines its a nation and only the people have the right to choose their Leader, no one has a right to impose himself on others, There is only one who is like none other and He alone is GOD !!! Libyans want to choose their leaders and express themselves , they no longer want to be puppets who get crumplets, money is not everything , Self actualization is more imortant and on a higher plane than money/shelter/clothing etc The Libyan people want more and i support that, As for Nato those ones are after oil but then again if Gaddaffi was Mandela and left room for continuation then outside vultures will have to access. By siddoning put he exposed the people of Libya to this war. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nobody: 9:29pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
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Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by poweredcom(m): 9:35pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
God have mercy, Libyans will suffer as they have bowed to Westerners, I am not saying that Ghadaffi did not do wrong, he was also at fault also, but they should not embarrassed their hero, Libyans welcome to suffer |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nobody: 10:05pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Libyans are fighting for their rights! Whatever they do with those rights is left for them to decide. You can't tell me there is nobody in all of Libya that can rule better than Gaddafi. Please, let's remove sentiment from it, do you guys in defense of Gaddifi think there is no educated Libyan(more educated than Gaddafi) in the country that can rule? |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by felifeli: 10:24pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Gaddaffi had to go anyway. He had become too power drunk for his own good and clearly like a real African king he has begun to feels that he is the all-wise and beyond reproach. It is the matter of who takes over that is the problem. The whole world will soon see that the rebels are fighting for a new Gaddafi-like replacement ; the new March 7 "god' of liberation. i predict that fool who calls himself the leader of NTC will be executed next ; give them 3 months , and then the West will begin to see pepper. As someone mentioned Aljazeera , the superpower countries have no friends; only "interests" and in matters like this their decision are never moral ; and that is why we have seen the forceful ouster of a person they don't like under some cooked up ideals. After Gaddafi, let;s see who NATO begins to point its gun at in Libya. The situation will make Iraq and Somalia like child's play. If Italy's Mussolini could be woken up he would have reminded them that Libyans are mad dogs and they have no friends either , only heroes. If Gaddafi dies now he becomes a martyr and for next hundred years Libya will burn with inter tribal wars. I am already sorry for libya |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nobody: 10:35pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
^^^^ Are you telling me it's a single tribe that is responsible for the rebel group? Leave that tribal talk aside and Libyans know about that before going about the war. I think Libya will be better off than what people are making it to look like here. Even those who benefited from Gaddafi regime are fed up of the man tyranny. No war order than this. As far as it couldn't happen during the time Gaddafi assassinated the King and the only son that fled to US tribe didn't call for war so, I can't see something like that happening when Gaddafi have terrorized both friends and foes in the country. There is nothing wrong in addressing every angle. But, I still think this will be the last war for the time being. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by felifeli: 10:59pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
all4naija: I am not telling you anything sir. Frankly for me you don't exist in this discussion. I also advise that you go look up your dictionary for the meaning of "tyranny'. Cheers |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by denitro(m): 11:02pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Poster, Are you okay? |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by dandollar1: 11:14pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Libya has finally entered into the hands of radical islam.its now an iranian proxy just like egypt.this was what mubarak and ghadaffi were trying to prevent.they had their excesses though.libya and egypt are going to be worse off.watch out. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nobody: 11:36pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
@felifeli I intend not to reply you but I think you need to know what TYRANNY means by dictionary definition - as you request me to check it up from the dictionary. Anyway, I am going to give you the general dictionary definition not what it connotes. Tyranny(noun)means[b] a government in which a single ruler is vested with absolute power[/b] - by online dictionary definition.And, I would like you to tell me why Gaddafi is not a tyranny in your dictionary. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by emmatok(m): 11:38pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
dan_dollar: Everybody with their theories. Some are claiming Libya has falling to Western Powers. Others are claiming Iran and radical Islamist have taken over Libya. But one thing is certain Gaddafi is gone after 42years |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by honeric01(m): 11:46pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Just imagine $60,000 after getting married, majority of Nigerians can't even save up to that in their entire life. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nobody: 11:54pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
^^^^ What's the meaning of that? Stop raising your ugly head every time you hear of Nigeria. I better work for my $60,000 than be given for free. Keep waiting for free money(benefit is supposed to be for jobless people) to sustain your family when others are becoming business tycoons. Boohoo! |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by dandollar1: 11:55pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
emmatok:time will tell.I guess you see the way egypt is heading.it won't be hidden it will be in the news. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by olaolabiy: 11:55pm On Aug 24, 2011 |
Why do some Africans find it difficult to reason well? Imagine some insane, expected-of-the-apes comments on this thread. To your tent . . . . . . SMH |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nyntynplus: 12:18am On Aug 25, 2011 |
Wat a pity, i can c darkness in deir future NATO hv totally failed them, d fact stil remain dt democracy can neva wrk in Africa. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Tunsbobo(m): 12:23am On Aug 25, 2011 |
Their is nothing any external force or NATO can do as per interfaring in a nation's affairs without the support of the citizens themselves! The people of libya wanted ghadafi to go, they were tired of his absolute and undemocratic control of libya! Why has NATO or external forces not interfared in the affairs of saudi arabia and opposed the monarchy practised in the kingdom? It is simply because the people of saudi arabia are still contented and have no problems with the monarchical system practised in their country, but this wasn't the case in libya! |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by panafrican(m): 12:24am On Aug 25, 2011 |
Libya will now promote homosexuality, child pornography, women slapping husbands in the face, children gunning down or jailing their own parents. Welcome to the messy world of Demon -Cracy. By the way, the chinese are doing better than the western world although out there in China, around 1.5 billion people live under a unique political party. Western countries including the USA are doing business with china. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Nobody: 12:27am On Aug 25, 2011 |
@Nyntynplus Why did you think democracy can't work in Africa? South Africa, Kenya,Ghana,Senegal,Mauritius,Namibia,etc are good example of democratic societies in Africa. I think it is a matter of time for others to understand how democracy can work better for their various countries. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by olaolabiy: 12:48am On Aug 25, 2011 |
all4naija: |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by kabukabu(m): 12:50am On Aug 25, 2011 |
panafrican: Really, so all those mullahs who marry 12 year olds, cut off people's hands and stone women who have been abused to death are the creators of a "FREE SOCEITY"!!!!!!!! You need to douse yourself with water and stick your head into a Microwave oven. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by Ladyrsky46: 1:21am On Aug 25, 2011 |
People always think the grass is greener on the other side. Good luck to Libya and her people. They need it in multiple folds. God help them. |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by BOMANY: 1:41am On Aug 25, 2011 |
playmode=topic=743332.msg9000770#msg9000770 date=1314231660: |
Re: Have Libyans Made A Huge Mistake By Removing Gaddafi? by BOMANY: 1:43am On Aug 25, 2011 |
Men! Do you know what are you talking about or just a parrot repeats lies without sense. Do you want facts, here are some; 1- For many years, Gaddafi hanged thousands of youths in universities and stadium and showed it alive on TV terrifying anyone to say anything against him 2- In the last revolution, he killed over 30 thousand civilians and 70 thousand are injured 3- The population Libya is about 6 million, with income last year from gas and oil about 6 billion dollars which means that one million US dollars per annum for everyone. Then the 60 thousands is nothing actually. Moreover, when you visit Libya, you wont see a rich country, in fact many Libyans were poorly suffering while Gaddafi was spreading their country’s fortune on other countries just to be stated the big leader, the king og all kings …. bla bla bla 4- He changed the name, flag, national anthem …etc of his country just to fit his sick imagination, even he imposed his silly “Green Charter” on his people claiming that it is the only book that can take man to the right path. Paragraphs of the book used to be broadcasted on Libyan Radio for years. If I keep talking about him sick de-mentality, I will need thousand pages. I wouldn’t call him a tyrant but just as he is called in the Arab world “The Crazy Man”. No one there took him seriously |
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