AgentOfAllah:


Dude, if you're really suggesting that my belief and handle ID had/have any consequence on yours; and even more outrageous, that this will convolute an imaginary argument, how can I take you seriously?

Put simply, It will have it's consequence towards the argument (if there will be any).... Your Belief and the Moniker..that is..

Image123:


i expected that you'd consult a dictionary when i hinted at your laziness. Supernatural is BASICALLY something not natural. Maybe you should study "basically" too while at it. Since i have a task of explaining supernatural as not natural to you, check the links provided below.

1. mwebster. NATURAL as adjective. Read definition 4, 8a, b, c, 11a, 12a, b ( http://i.word.com/idictionary/natural[1] )

2. Collins English, the 2nd dictionary. Definition 3and 6. ( http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=natural )

3. wikipedia. Nature , in the broadest sense, is equivalent to the natural, physical, or material world or universe. "Nature" refers to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general.
( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature)
First major sentence in the article. Learn "broadest".

cool so what is supernatural then?........"not nature" a.k.a "supernatural" you haven't defined nor gave an example of what i can point to as supernatural.....
you've been avoiding all these questions.....do not be a subtle person....remember the "devil" you believe in allegedly has this trait...

davien:
cool so what is supernatural then?........"not nature" a.k.a "supernatural" you haven't defined nor gave an example of what i can point to as supernatural.....
you've been avoiding all these questions.....do not be a subtle person....remember the "devil" you believe in allegedly has this trait...

Cool or cold? You don't believe in anything supernatural, at least you see it in the dictionary now. Millions of people believe and attest to experience the supernatural. You're ridiculously rude and dishonest as i've noticed. Why not check dictionaries for the definition of supernatural or you need the links yet again? An example of a supernatural experience is Mo' flying to heaven, i thought i already referred to that as supernatural? Miracles are supernatural.
i'm not being subtle. i'd say maybe evasive BECAUSE i have to get you to think since you claim to and take pride in it. You wouldn't appreciate my answers if i spoonfed you, and i'd be neglecting one of the Lord Jesus' advice in the process. When you think honestly and sincerely and deeply, you'd arrive at saner and better conclusions i hope. If you stay through and think and work hard, you get all the answers, that i can promise.

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Cool or cold? You don't believe in anything supernatural, at least you see it in the dictionary now. Millions of people believe and attest to experience the supernatural. You're ridiculously rude and dishonest as i've noticed. Why not check dictionaries for the definition of supernatural or you need the links yet again? An example of a supernatural experience is Mo' flying to heaven, i thought i already referred to that as supernatural? Miracles are supernatural.
i'm not being subtle. i'd say maybe evasive BECAUSE i have to get you to think since you claim to and take pride in it. You wouldn't appreciate my answers if i spoonfed you, and i'd be neglecting one of the Lord Jesus' advice in the process. [b] When you think honestly and sincerely and deeply, you'd arrive at saner and better conclusions i hope. If you stay through and think and work hard, you get all the answers, that i can promise. [/b]

really so what amount of thinking would i use to verify a snake talked?..or do you employ wishful thinking

And i want you to define what you understand to be "supernatural" and how to identify things "supernatural"....(because all believers define it differently)

And saying millions of people believe "A" doesn't make "A" true...understand?

And how can you tell mo flied to "heaven"..let alone any "supernatural" occurrence to have taken place?...do you believe the account?...and why?

And how can you testify a "miracle" has taken place?....have you ever bothered to trace one?....if you did....did you find it to be "not natural" a.k.a "supernatural"?

Lastly do you believe in "spontaneous generation"...?

BossTtdiamonds:


Put simply, It will have it's consequence towards the argument (if there will be any).... Your Belief and the Moniker..that is..

That can only mean you don't have honest answers to my simple questions! Surely, the proof and motive of your god's existence are immutable to the possibility that my name could be biliki, akpos, yerima or john; or that I'm a devil worshiper, humanist, Hindu or muslim?

You don't have to answer my questions. Your points are excruciatingly juvenile, and this conversation is becoming mildly irritating.

The topic sounds funny .... But the idea of dividing the Torah, Gospel and psalms into "old testament and new testament" is human tradition ! THE TRUTH is : What we have is HEBREW SCRIPTURES AND GREEK SCRIPTURES , a proof that both are harmonious is found in the fact that the greek scriptures inspired writers of Gods word quote extensively from the hebrew scriptures ! In one word " All scriptures is inspired of God" 2tim 3:16

davien:


really so what amount of thinking would i use to verify a snake talked?..or do you employ wishful thinking



And i want you to define what you understand to be "supernatural" and how to identify things "supernatural"....(because all believers define it differently)



And saying millions of people believe "A" doesn't make "A" true...understand?



And how can you tell mo flied to "heaven"..let alone any "supernatural" occurrence to have taken place?...do you believe the account?...and why?



And how can you testify a "miracle" has taken place?....have you ever bothered to trace one?....if you did....did you find it to be "not natural" a.k.a "supernatural"?



Lastly do you believe in "spontaneous generation"...?

We've not talked about verifying if a snake talked, have we? Are you opposed to thinking about what i tell you? You want to swallow hook, line and sinker? i want you to think as against making hasty generalizations, emotional outbursts, and moral fallacies which are common traits of unbelievers.

Whatever you see in the dictionary as the definition of supernatural is what supernatural is. Saying millions of people believe is to make you slow down and be more careful as against your dismissive attitude to theological matters. Take more time, patience, carefulness, open mindedness and wisdom before making assertive conclusions.

i don't know or care if Mo' flew to heaven. i wouldn't rule out the possibility hastily too. Out of the body experience is real and not limited to a particular religion or group. i can testify of miracles as i have seen a few. They happened to me and close people, so it's not "dem say" that i need to trace anywhere.

'Spontaneous generation', like living things NATURALLY being formed from non living things regularly or as a way of life? No, i don't believe it. Why, because i know how living things come to be.

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We've not talked about verifying if a snake talked, have we? Are you opposed to thinking about what i tell you? You want to swallow hook, line and sinker? i want you to think as against making hasty generalizations, emotional outbursts, and moral fallacies which are common traits of unbelievers.

you told me

. If you stay through and think and work
hard, you get all the answers, that i can promise.

and so i am asking what amount or type of thinking can i arrive for an answer of alleged snake and donkey talking...?

Whatever you see in the dictionary as the definition of supernatural is what supernatural is. Saying millions of people believe is to make you slow down and be more careful as against your dismissive attitude to theologicali matters. Take more time, patience, carefulness, open mindedness and wisdom before making assertive conclusions.

[b] you do realise being open minded isn't accepting baseless claims right?.... nor any of those attributes.....and telling me whatever definition i see in the dictionary as "supernatural" is what it is does not satisfy the question.....much like me asking you to read what space is defined and whatever you see defines it...... you claim to have witnessed the "supernatural" and i want your expertise to know what it is and how i can detect what is "supernatural" and what isn't.....your definition of "not nature" makes it feasible for me to deduce imaginary concepts that indeed are not part of nature and cannot be artificially created e.g a minotaur.....half man....half bull.. or santa....

And also because millions believe something contradictory and unverify-able exists doesn't mean i should reconsider it being possible.....if i told you something like a married bachelor exists and millions believe me therefore you should have a re-think of it being possible would you automatically start believing a concept you have no idea of? [/b]

i don't know or care if Mo' flew to heaven. i wouldn't rule out the possibility hastily too. Out of the body experience is real and not limited to a particular religion or group. i can testify of miracles as i have seen a few. They happened to me and close people, so it's not "dem say" that i need to trace anywhere.

really?.....define what you understand to be outer body experiences and why you think its real? and also miracles please...

'Spontaneous generation', like living things NATURALLY being formed from non living things regularly or as a way of life? No, i don't believe it. Why, because i know how living things come to be.

really?....so can you tell me how living things came to be.....i'd love to hear it...and please state how you knew.....because you could win a nobel prize by uncovering the mysteries of how life came to be...

davien:
you told me
and so i am asking what amount or type of thinking can i arrive for an answer of alleged snake and donkey talking...?

[b] you do realise being open minded isn't accepting baseless claims right?.... nor any of those attributes.....and telling me whatever definition i see in the dictionary as "supernatural" is what it is does not satisfy the question.....much like me asking you to read what space is defined and whatever you see defines it...... you claim to have witnessed the "supernatural" and i want your expertise to know what it is and how i can detect what is "supernatural" and what isn't.....your definition of "not nature" makes it feasible for me to deduce imaginary concepts that indeed are not part of nature and cannot be artificially created e.g a minotaur.....half man....half bull.. or santa....

And also because millions believe something contradictory and unverify-able exists doesn't mean i should reconsider it being possible.....if i told you something like a married bachelor exists and millions believe me therefore you should have a re-think of it being possible would you automatically start believing a concept you have no idea of? [/b]

really?.....define what you understand to be outer body experiences and why you think its real? and also miracles please...

really?....so can you tell me how living things came to be.....i'd love to hear it...and please state how you knew.....because you could win a nobel prize by uncovering the mysteries of how life came to be... [/b]

i'm not connected to a computer so i'm replying in paragraphs as against quoting. When i assured you of getting answers if you work hard and think hard, thatis simply another way of expressing a biblical and even general truth "seek and you shall find". It was not a call or promise by me to answer every irrelevant question you repeatedly ask me.

i would not oblige you in your quest about the supernatural at this time. That is your cup of tea, make do with the dictionary definitions.
Again, my point about millions of people is that you be more circumspect in dismissing other people's claims especially when so many are claiming same.
Miracles are real, people experience them all the time. i have also.
Living things come to be by reproduction. The spontaneous ish purports that living things come out of non living things, they just appear as a matter of course.

If ur waitg for som1 to satisfy ur pesky notions of reality or prove reality accordg to some atheist/sceptic's criteria you'll wait till seun's grandson takes over nairaland.
God doesnt hav ur time.
You've never beyond a doubt proved that ur biological parents are REALLY your parents. Hav you?
Hav all atheists? No.
They and you, simply took your parents at their word .
They cudve been lying to u all these while , yet u didnt know.
If you took your parents for a test,the results cud b faked? How dyu know the testers didnt manipulate the result to decieve you?
You'd need to b in the same lab inspect the equipments urself,
before u'd satisfied beyond a doubt. And if,they were telling d truth,wen d results came what wud it prove? Tht you were better off(time and money wise) simply taking their word in d first place.

God has given His word in d bible. If u like believe Him if you like demand more - He maynt give you more. Besides,if u demand a dna test bf u believed ur parents theyd feel very insulted at ur doubt. Many wudnt submit to be tested.

asalimpo:
If ur waitg for som1 to satisfy ur pesky notions of reality or prove reality accordg to some atheist/sceptic's criteria you'll wait till seun's grandson takes over nairaland.
God doesnt hav ur time.
You've never beyond a doubt proved that ur biological parents are REALLY your parents. Hav you?
Hav all atheists? No.
They and you, simply took your parents at their word .
They cudve been lying to u all these while , yet u didnt know.
If you took your parents for a test,the results cud b faked? How dyu know the testers didnt manipulate the result to decieve you?
You'd need to b in the same lab inspect the equipments urself,
before u'd satisfied beyond a doubt. And if,they were telling d truth,wen d results came what wud it prove? Tht you were better off(time and money wise) simply taking their word in d first place.

God has given His word in d bible. If u like believe Him if you like demand more - He maynt give you more. Besides,if u demand a dna test bf u believed ur parents theyd feel very insulted at ur doubt. Many wudnt submit to be tested.

yeah...."his" word currently disputed by over 41,000 denominations of christianity

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i'm not connected to a computer so i'm replying in paragraphs as against quoting. When i assured you of getting answers if you work hard and think hard, thatis simply another way of expressing a biblical and even general truth "seek and you shall find". It was not a call or promise by me to answer every irrelevant question you repeatedly ask me.

i would not oblige you in your quest about the supernatural at this time. That is your cup of tea, make do with the dictionary definitions.
Again, my point about millions of people is that you be more circumspect in dismissing other people's claims especially when so many are claiming same.
Miracles are real, people experience them all the time. i have also.
Living things come to be by reproduction. The spontaneous ish purports that living things come out of non living things, they just appear as a matter of course.

So far you've avoided all my questions....i thought a theist like you could defend your beliefs but you can't.....you open a book all your life and can't understand how a stick spontaneously generated a snake....smh!

davien:
So far you've avoided all my questions....i thought a theist like you could defend your beliefs but you can't.....you open a book all your life and can't understand how a stick spontaneously generated a snake....smh!

Perhaps you think wrongly a lot. Sticks don't always become snakes in the bible, that is not what the debunked spontaneous generation is about. You deceive yourself to even attempt that. How long and how far would you deceive yourself?

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Perhaps you think wrongly a lot. Sticks don't always become snakes in the bible, that is not what the debunked spontaneous generation is about. You deceive yourself to even attempt that. How long and how far would you deceive yourself?

really?....perhaps you fail to understand that spontaneous generation was introduced as how "god" did it......if you say otherwise i'm interested in your source.....solve my "delusion"...

davien:
really?....perhaps you fail to understand that spontaneous generation was introduced as how "god" did it......if you say otherwise i'm interested in your source.....solve my "delusion"...

Spontaneous generation is not how God did it. The bible records how God did it, by His power, by His Word, by His great might, by faith. Spontaneous generation is a dead and obsolete hypothesis, miracles are not. Spontaneous hypothesis allegedly have wrapped pieces of bread producing rats anything, anywhere. Decayed meat give birth to maggots. Those aren't miracle, The Red Sea doesn't part every other day. Neither does water turn into wine every weekend. Stop the folly.

Image123:


Spontaneous generation is not how God did it. The bible records how God did it, by His power, by His Word, by His great might, by faith. Spontaneous generation is a dead and obsolete hypothesis, miracles are not. Spontaneous hypothesis allegedly have wrapped pieces of bread producing rats anything, anywhere. Decayed meat give birth to maggots. Those aren't miracle, The Red Sea doesn't part every other day. Neither does water turn into wine every weekend. Stop the folly.

learning.....so why should faith be a factor in all these....is it the right way to know what is true?...

davien:
learning.....so why should faith be a factor in all these....is it the right way to know what is true?...

This is a turn from what we're discussing, not a bad turn though. Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. That's like a constant in the spiritual equation. Faith is the way to God as it were, so if one wants to know God or "see" God as it were, or even understand God better, faith is it. Believing is seeing in that realm. If you can believe, you will see.

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This is a turn from what we're discussing, not a bad turn though. Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. That's like a constant in the spiritual equation. Faith is the way to God as it were, so if one wants to know God or "see" God as it were, or even understand God better, faith is it. Believing is seeing in that realm. If you can believe, you will see.

Exactly, the same way gravity will pull you to the surface of he earth is the same way faith will pull you to God..

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This is a turn from what we're discussing, not a bad turn though. Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. That's like a constant in the spiritual equation. Faith is the way to God as it were, so if one wants to know God or "see" God as it were, or even understand God better, faith is it. Believing is seeing in that realm. If you can believe, you will see.

okay....but why are all religions based on faith and yours as well?....doesn't that place the god of christianity on the same grounds with the rest?.....and even still christianity is divided into over 41,000 denominations how do i know the right one....

asalimpo:
If ur waitg for som1 to satisfy ur pesky notions of reality or prove reality accordg to some atheist/sceptic's criteria you'll wait till seun's grandson takes over nairaland.
God doesnt hav ur time.
You've never beyond a doubt proved that ur biological parents are REALLY your parents. Hav you?
Hav all atheists? No.
They and you, simply took your parents at their word .
They cudve been lying to u all these while , yet u didnt know.
If you took your parents for a test,the results cud b faked? How dyu know the testers didnt manipulate the result to decieve you?
You'd need to b in the same lab inspect the equipments urself,
before u'd satisfied beyond a doubt. And if,they were telling d truth,wen d results came what wud it prove? Tht you were better off(time and money wise) simply taking their word in d first place.

God has given His word in d bible. If u like believe Him if you like demand more - He maynt give you more. Besides,if u demand a dna test bf u believed ur parents theyd feel very insulted at ur doubt. Many wudnt submit to be tested.

Sir, I just feel I should chirp in a bit. Reality is a really relative term especially when it has to do with beliefs.

And let me talk about the parent questioning alibi. Sir, if your old neighbor who happens to share many physical traits with you should come to your house one day and claim that he is your father in 'reality', what will you do? I doubt if your parents' word-of-mouth claim will be enough ground for you to falsify his own counterclaim. You probably might choose to disregard it at first, because of all you've been through together with your "parents" and all they've sacrificed for you, and entertaining this 'stranger' may seem like betrayal on your part but I assure you that your mind won't be at rest. Because there's now a person making a counterclaim to your parents Word. And you might want to get an evidence more concrete than their word-of-mouth believe by faith.

Sir, I ask you, and I indulge you to answer sincerely, do you belief the Koran is God's expressed Word?

If your answer is no, why not?

davien:
yeah...."his" word currently disputed by over 41,000 denominations of christianity

you didnt ask ur parents to "prove" themselves to you did you?
You didnt ask your teachers/lecturers to present their certifcates to you?
You are no stranger to believg without physcal evidence.

41 000+ denominations. The basics information isnt confusg.
The bible is caterogically clear about d truth.

Xcapist:


Sir, I just feel I should chirp in a bit. Reality is a really relative term especially when it has to do with beliefs.

And let me talk about the parent questioning alibi. Sir, if your old neighbor who happens to share many physical traits with you should come to your house one day and claim that he is your father in 'reality', what will you do? I doubt if your parents' word-of-mouth claim will be enough ground for you to falsify his own counterclaim. You probably might choose to disregard it at first, because of all you've been through together with your "parents" and all they've sacrificed for you, and entertaining this 'stranger' may seem like betrayal on your part but I assure you that your mind won't be at rest. Because there's now a person making a counterclaim to your parents Word. And you might want to get an evidence more concrete than their word-of-mouth believe by faith.

Sir, I ask you, and I indulge you to answer sincerely, do you belief the Koran is God's expressed Word?

If your answer is no, why not?

hmm. Old neighbour. 1 in a billion people cud hav this experience. It's possible. But this is an un necessarily contrived example. Stay with d essence of d example.

You, 95% of people who grew up with parents, never seriously consider acceptg their claim of parenthood on som physcally verifiable proof! Their word alone
suffces.
And yet this scenerio is so ripe for rigging.

Why doesnt d sceptic atheistc mind also thoroughly scrutinize the claims of som very important people in d sceptics life?

As a christian wat dyu expect my stance on d koran to b?
- is tht even a necessary question, going by my replies on this thred so far.

Y do i blv d bible?
Y do I believe it's God's word?
The answer wud b over d head of any atheist/sceptic. Too theologcal.
You were a christian once, y did u previously blv?

asalimpo:


you didnt ask ur parents to "prove" themselves to you did you?
You didnt ask your teachers/lecturers to present their certifcates to you?
You are no stranger to believg without physcal evidence.

41 000+ denominations. The basics information isnt confusg.
The bible is caterogically clear about d truth.

1. I did....they are deacons afterall....good ol' mum and dad honestly told me they don't know...


2. We infact have asked lecturers to present them before being approved and before participating in any field of study...

3. no....actually i am....indoctrination and ignorance plays a role though…in my belief then
although if you are no stranger to belief without evidence why not believe in ctulhu by H.P Lovecraft?

If its clear why are there over 41,000 interpretations all supported by the bible and most conflicting.....a particular set is the "church of christ" that follows that "miracles,god and others" no longer interact with us in the present day but did during "biblical times" to prove the word and now that we have the word....it is left to believe in...they also believe the earth and universe is 6000 years old....

asalimpo:


hmm. Old neighbour. 1 in a billion people cud hav this experience. It's possible. But this is an un necessarily contrived example. Stay with d essence of d example.

You, 95% of people who grew up with parents, never seriously consider acceptg their claim of parenthood on som physcally verifiable proof! Their word alone
suffces.
And yet this scenerio is so ripe for rigging.

Why doesnt d sceptic atheistc mind also thoroughly scrutinize the claims of som very important people in d sceptics life?

As a christian wat dyu expect my stance on d koran to b?
- is tht even a necessary question, going by my replies on this thred so far.

Y do i blv d bible?
Y do I believe it's God's word?
The answer wud b over d head of any atheist/sceptic. Too theologcal.
You were a christian once, y did u previously blv?

I think my question is a valid one and only requires a simple yes or no. And in the event it's a no, a sentence would suffice as a befitting answer. How hard is that?

Don't evade answering questions because you feel it'd be over some people's head, just answer honestly and they'd be responsible for their own reaction. Btw I delve in theology too bro, as a matter of fact, I have one theological book on my desk as we speak.

I was banned a second time .
I said u shud infer my stand on ur question.
Judgg by my responses so far.
Must all thngs b spelled out?
If u make a wrong inference i'll correct u.

asalimpo:
I was banned a second time .
I said u shud infer my stand on ur question.
Judgg by my responses so far.
Must all thngs b spelled out?
If u make a wrong inference i'll correct u.

Eyya, well, welcome back

What is the point of asking the question and answering for you? I rather not infer since you are here to answer yourself.

davien:
okay....but why are all religions based on faith and yours as well?....doesn't that place the god of christianity on the same grounds with the rest?.....and even still christianity is divided into over 41,000 denominations how do i know the right one....

It's like asking why there are millions of websites on the internet. Not all are on the same level. There are over 200countries playing soccer, only one is champion. About 41000 denominations or whatever, are you insinuating that they are 41000 DIFFERENT ways to God. That would be a crass and misinformed position/view to take. It's either Jesus is Lord or Jesus is not. It's either God is holy or God is not. There are no 41000 different positions on the fundamentals of the christian faith.

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It's like asking why there are millions of websites on the internet. Not all are on the same level. There are over 200countries playing soccer, only one is champion. About 41000 denominations or whatever, are you insinuating that they are 41000 DIFFERENT ways to God. That would be a crass and misinformed position/view to take. It's either Jesus is Lord or Jesus is not. It's either God is holy or God is not. There are no 41000 different positions on the fundamentals of the christian faith.

I am not talking of positions to "god"....but rather which one of the 41,000 is true and how you know its true.....compared to the vast majority that also tag "christian" to themselves.....and contrasting to other beliefs....

davien:
I am not talking of positions to "god"....but rather which one of the 41,000 is true and how you know its true.....compared to the vast majority that also tag "christian" to themselves.....and contrasting to other beliefs....

Are the so called 41000 different?

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Are the so called 41000 different?

In myriad of ways yes....some things are similar....but all in all the bible is sourced for all.....

davien:
In myriad of ways yes....some things are similar....but all in all the bible is sourced for all.....

Do they serve 41000 gods? Do they believe in the lordship of 41000 Jesus? Do they believe Jesus died in 41000 ways? How are they fundamentally different, and in how many ways?