₦airaland Forum

chamotex: Where is afrodoc?

i dey here,i no loss na

why u dey look for me?

GustavoFring: The boy must have browsed Nairaland during the half-time teamtalk

Last week it was Rooney, This week Januzaj....It seems like every Man Utd Player Coogar slates before the game turns round to silence him

hehehehe!

i remember when guys were debating on whether januzaj should be loaned out, the guy is good enough for the squad right now even though we know he wont start most games.
another thing is if we loan him out now then we will lose him to another big team when his contract runs out.
he has special talent and is one of the guys that should feature regularly in moyes rotation especially with the other wingers off form

altidore having his way with vidic

vidic! see assist

the lineup is good enough to beat a Sunderland side in free fall and devoid of real quality.
januzaj is facing a newbie at the sunderland's RB position (Celustka) ,he should be able to give the guy a baptism of fire

Fellaini is soooo SLOW and he has the turning arc of a MACK truck.

debosky: Lampard isn't a 10, so that's the wrong comparison. A better one would be Joe Cole, who did play wide, or even Oscar who can play centrally and wide as well.

All midfielders at Arsenal play wide at some point or the other - Fabregas did, Ramsey did, Wilshere did/does, Cazorla did/does, Ozil does.



Is the lack of effectiveness due to Rooney's deficiencies or the forwards? That is the question to ask. Last time I checked, not only the 10 determines whether goals are scored.

those strikers are veritable goal machines, u know that.
even giroud has received more through balls than United's strikers!

wayne rooney has to make more through balls and less long balls.
long balls can only be made when you are A LONG WAY from the opposition goal e.g central midfield or in ur half.
what is he doing so far from goal when United have had majority possession in practically all our games this season?

dademola: we havnt scored frm open play ever since we beat swansea 1-4. On dt dai, welbeck played in d hole behind rvp and we won! Y arent pple clamouring for welbeck to get d "hole" spot den, since he played der dt dai and we scored 4 goals?

kagawa is a player who has excelled in the hole before so i believe he should be given more chances to play his preferred position especially if the guy who is playing the role is not performing his task satisfactorily. I am a fan of both rooney and kagawa so this is not an attempt to rubbish rooney but i believe kagawa should be given more opportunities in that position lets see what he is truly made of.
if he succeeds good and if he fails well the clamor will die down.

oh boy see gang up on Rooney
The one thing we know is that if one feeds either RVP or Chicharito with quality chances they will score goals galore.....thats a given.
So the blame lies with the 3 behind the striker whose primary function is to prove creativity......the man in the hole and the wingers.

However i would lay the blame FIRST on the wingers who have been so dire and diabolically poor al season long and even going back to last season.
After them though Wayne Rooney has to accept a large portion of the blame too cos those stats show that he is drifting way too deep and not performing his primary function which is to PLAY IN THE HOLE and link up play with the strikers and wingers PREFERABLY IN SHORT INTERCHANGES.

lets compare his stats with someone that excels in that position Ozil

Wayne Rooney has tried 35 long balls and only 4 through balls, Ozil has played fewer minutes obviously and has played just 8 long balls but same number of through balls as Rooney 4.

David Silva has 9 long ball and 8 through ball attempts and Aguero has 3 long ball and 2 through ball attempts

Rooney is giving a lot of effort but he is not applying it in the best way to play in the hole .TOO MANY LONG BALLS AND TOO FEW THROUGH BALLS.
Having said all this our incompetent wingers are culprits no 1 then rooney for our lack of creativity up front

SailorXY: I no know wetin una wan achieve with this argument. Berbatov is no longer with this team duh!

lol no vex bro just a lil distraction from United's problems

OK on to the next one.

Another case in point you hear that Berbatov has 33 european goals in 79 matches compared Drogba 46 in 90 and Rooney 33 in 78.
u think that well that is not too bad until u realise that 19 of his goals came in the uefa cup (including the 7 against mighty Tiraspol) and his champions league record is actually 14 GOALS IN 56 MATCHES.

he is the classical bottom feeder and flat track bully

another nugget ....... a whopping 21 percent of his European goals came in 2 matches against the great Tiraspol of Moldova.
he is a stat padder of the highest calibre

coogar: you are plumbing the depths of idiocy with this meaningless stats. i have told you already your method if choosing the top four is largely flawed. i won't even mention your ridiculous assumption that berbatov must have started all the games against your supposed top teams.

scientifically, your theory is flawed!!!



when liverpool won the champions league in 04/05, they were 5th. when chelsea won the champions league in 11/12, they finished 6th. by your ridiculous insipid assumption, strikers that scored against these 2 teams in those seasons did not score against a top team.

you are arguing against logic....



if you compute this same stat for rooney, RVP or suarez, you would find out a higher percentage of their goals came from bottom sides.



nah, you have shot yourself in the foot - computing meaningless stats that do not have a definite top four teams. your logic fails to recognise liverpool(04/05) & chelsea(11/12) as a top team. the whole world is laughing at you....

yet you the master of stats has not been able to show stats to back up your claim.
u mentioned ronaldo and messi and RVP

WELL show us with facts and figures which of them has capitalized on bottom feeder relegated teams to score 30 percent of his league goals like Berbatov?
The fact remains that compared to top strikers for big teams he scores a disproportionately high percentage of his goals against the yeye defences of relegation bound teams.
Thats why he is a flat track bully

a draw would do for in all honesty. it would be too bad if another defeat is recorded

Did ronaldo or messi score 30 percent of their goals against teams soooo bad that they were relegated?
no b democratically dem dey share their love?

even your often maligned Rooney has scored 11 percent of his goals against quality teams that ended up in the top 4.

coogar: that's another flawed argument.
only 20% of the teams in the world are top teams. the other 80% are shyte teams. logic then dictates a striker is 4 times likelier to score against a weak team than a top team.

ronaldo scored 34 league goals last season, only 3 of them were against top sides(barcelona & athletico), he scored 2 against sociedad(another champions league representative).

in a nutshell, 29 of ronaldo's 34 league goals were scored against shyte sides. by your logic, ronaldo is a flat track bully. ronaldo scored hatricks against deportivo, getafe, sevilla. why didn't he do the same against barca or athletico?

you have shot yourself in the foot....

every season there are 19 teams to face in the league.
assuming berbatov's team always finishes in the top 4 it means he has a minimum of 3 teams that finish in the top 4 to play against.
so one assumes that if things were balanced berbatov should have scored about 3/19(15%) of his EPL goals against teams that finished in the top 4. even if its not up to 15 percent it should be somewhere close to that.

however to my dismay i found out that berbatov had scored ONLY 6 out of his 90 EPL goals against teams that finished in the top 4 giving a percentage of 6.6 percent!

the same way there are 3 relegated teams every season so one expects him to score about 3/19 or 15 percent of his goals against them.

however to my dismay i found out that he had score a whooping 27 out 90 goals i.e 30 percent of his goals against teams that were relegated.

now u shot urself in the foot

he is the epitome of the flat track bully

i am off this, have things do

afrodoc: which brownie points?

i no send nairaland reach that level guy.
answer this did he or did he not score almost HALF of his UEFA CUP goals against TIRASPOL of Moldova?

u still haven't answered this question

coogar: you are the one shooting yourself in the foot. berbatov scored against united in 02/03. he scored twice against madrid as far back as 04/05. there have been goals against bayern munich, dortmund, liverpool, lyon, roma, etc even before berba moved to england & you are here propagating lies to score cheap brownie points.



and this is the fraud you keep spreading. liverpool might finish 20th but it doesn't tell the story of how they would still mop the floor with united at anfield. united have lost more games to liverpool in the last 6 seasons than arsenal that always manage to finish in the top four.

so how can you find any logic in the argument you are putting forward? anfield is a difficult place for any man utd team. we are more likely to cop points at the etihad, emirates, white hart lane than anfield so the league position is a fraudulent way of choosing your top four.....

biko no b top 4 of the league we dey discuss?
how does uefa pick the 4 to go to champions league? no b league position?

coogar: you are the one shooting yourself in the foot. berbatov scored against united in 02/03. he's scored twice against madrid as far back as 04/05. there have been goals against bayern munich, dortmund, liverpool, lyon, roma, etc even before berba moved to england & you are here propagating lies to score cheap brownie points.

which brownie points?

i no send nairaland reach that level guy.
answer this did he or did he not score almost HALF of his UEFA CUP goals against TIRASPOL of Moldova?

so the seasons liverpool were crappy and finished 6th i should count them as top 4?
its like someone claiming because he scored against man city in 2004 that he scored against a top team just because man city r top 4 now.
the league position of the team that season tells you about the quality of the team THAT SEASON.
I am more concerned about that than traditional or cultural top 4

he scored most of his goals against teams that were relegated and very few against teams that were good enough for top 4 in those seasons

coogar: you are a fraud......
the traditional big four have always been man utd, chelsea, arsenal & liverpool. berbatov couldn't have scored against his own team(man utd) so there has to be another team in there(perhaps spurs or man city).

berbatov scored a hatrick against liverpool at OT. that's half of the league goals you are crediting him to have scored since 06/07 against top 4 EPL sides. can't you see the flaw in your argument?

then you had the hutzpah to say he's a stat padder but records showed berbatov scored his first goal against united as far back as 02/03 while you were still in a primary school studying elementary arithmetic.

lol i knew u would resort to insults when u had nothing else to say.
enjoy

Berbatov with CSKA SOFIA in the UEFA CUP 7 goals in 7 matches

next he moved to Bayer Leverkusen .in the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE 9 goals in 30 matches

moved down again to UEFA CUP with Tottenham Hotspur 12 goals in 16 matches

moved back up with Manchester United to CHAMPIONS LEAGUE 5 goals in 26 matches.

do u see the MASSIVE difference between his stats in both competitions?

#flattrackbully

coogar: at this juncture, you have to list the top 4 EPL teams in your statistics. who are the top four teams?

chairman is is that hard?
Man City is a top 4 team now but a few years ago they were mid-table so there is no permanent top 4 team.
u assess a team's quality in a particular season by their position at the end of the season.thats why league champions are crowned at the end of the season and teams are relegated at the end and not in december of february.

i did due diligence with my research and found that more often than not the goals berbatov scored were against teams so crappy that they ended up being relegated at the end of the season and he rarely scored goals against teams that were so good THAT SEASON that they made the top 4.
Thats why i call him a flat track bully.

i call him a stat padder because once he sees those his "abirun" teams he loads them with goals so that in years to come people will come on nairaland to defend his stats
for example berbatov has 19 goals in 23 matches in the UEFA Cup.
do u know that of his 19 goals SEVEN of them came against the "mighty" team called TIRASPOL FC of MOLDOVA in a tie which ended 11-2?
thats why i call him a stat padder

coogar: he's a different animal at fulham & spurs. he's their leader in those teams. they let him do everything. at united, things were different. rooney, ronaldo, giggs, carrick, nani, etc get the first option before berbatov .

are you saying berbatov has only scored 6 goals against top teams since he moved to england in 06/07? you must be a dreamer......

i showed the stats earlier and everybody saw them. this is no conjecture ,just pure facts....i know u r a fan of statistics

we are talking EPL goals remember


A MEASLY 6 EPL GOALS AGAINST TOP 4 TEAMS WHILE HE IS BUSY PADDING HIS STATS WITH GOALS AGAINST OLOBE TEAMS

coogar: which game did berbatov take a penalty or a freekick to score in a red shirt? i can't remember any. berba has only scored 2 goals via penalty in a red shirt(stoke & wigan) and that was in 11/12 season.

before berbatov won the golden boot, he assisted 10 league goals in 08/09 & 6 league goals in 09/10. it then begs the question - why should a supposed centre forward be assisting 10 or 6 league goals from open play? who was he assisting?

we are debating berbatov 's scoring against top 4 teams in his EPL HISTORY.you even pointed to goals he scored against United,Chelsea while playing for Spurs.
he scored a penalty against Arsenal last season while playing for Fulham

I believe its clear to all but one that berbatov is not only a flat track bully but he is a grand master of stats padding.

time to move on from this debate

coogar: this is the simplest question ever....

firstly, he rarely started those "big games". he had less minutes against big clubs than rooney or drogba.

secondly, berba never took set pieces in those big games. every goal he's scored against top teams were from open play or individual brilliance. comparing him to rooney or ronaldo is flawed in that regard.

at tottenham, he scored plenty of goals against top clubs. in 07/08, he scored against man utd, chelsea & liverpool.

at united, he wasn't even operating as a striker, the strikers had to make way for ronaldo during a united attack. his number of assists in 08/09 and 09/10 should tell you he was more of a trequartista than a fox in the box.

not true.
out of his measly 6 EPL goals against top 4 teams he has at least one penalty there.
cross check ur facts

ok.
but how come 4 of his 7 seasons he ended up not scoring against the top teams? and scored only 6 GOALS against top 4 teams [/b]in his career?
then u factor him scoring goals galore every season against relegated teams and [b]27 GOALS against relegation bound [b]teams [/b]in his career?

the question is not whether he has scored against United, the question is why is such a suspiciously LOW PERCENTAGE of his goals against top teams while an INORDINATELY HIGH PERCENTAGE is against crappy relegation bound teams?

coogar: afrodoc, stop arguing like a child.
those teams were not in the relegation pool when berba scored against them. it was after they conceded those berba goals that they slipped into relegation.......

no need insult people here guy.

in case u don't understand me let me type it in capital letters

I AM ILLUSTRATING THE QUALITY OF THE TEAMS IN GENERAL AND DEFENCES IN PARTICULAR THAT BERBATOV SCORES MANY OF HIS GOALS AGAINST.

they were not dropped into relegation by tsunami or by paratroopers. they were relegated because they were crappy!
and ur bro berbatov took advantage of them and padded his stats. however when the he had to leave the flat tracks of relegation bound teams for the steep incline of top contenders he was found wanting.....time and time again.
compare 6 goals to 27 goals......no be fluke. NA HIM HANDIWORK

in the 2006/2007 season berbatov scored 4 goals against relegated teams

in the 2007/2008 season berbatov scored 5 goals against relegated teams

in the 2008/2009 season berbatov scored 4 goals against relegated teams

in the 2009/2010 season berbatov scored 3 goals against relegated teams

in the 2010/2011 season berbatov scored 6 goals against relegated teams

in the 2011/2012 season berbatov scored 2 goals against relegated teams

in the 2012/2013 season berbatov scored 3 goals against relegated teams

when u consider that he scored only SIX (6) goals against top 4 teams and TWENTY SEVEN (27) goals against teams that got relegated that season you would agree with me that 'o ku die kaato"

once again if this is not a flat track bully pls who is?

dademola: bros.. Berba scored 20 goals dt season;a whopping 8 of dem came in 7-1 and 5-0 wins against lowly blackburn and birmingham AT OLDTRAFFORD!! Hw else can afrodoc clear ur doubt again??

just got back from work,are guys still on this berbatov issue?

ok another one.

2010/2011 season berbatovs greatest ever EPL season he scored 20 goals which got us ELEVEN points.
the same season rooney's joint worst scoring season for United he scored 11 goals which got us TEN points.

in actual fact berbatov is not only a flat track bully he is a stat padder! he pads stats by loading goals against faecal teams that have long given up the ghost

so torres was keeping lukaku on the bench and before that he kept sturridge on the bench too?