₦airaland Forum

A-40:
Those protective gear are probably what keep those players alive

definitely

phiszo: can you guys stop discussing about rugby?

LOL its American Football not Rugby

Hmmmm i don't think there is any cause for vitriolic arguments in this particular matter.
Dademola,Coogar and Starboard all agree that Rooney has been poor this season and he should be shifted from the no10 position for someone else to play the role.
The only difference i can make out is that Dademola believes Rooney should not be blamed for ALL United's problems as there are other issues with the team. This i believe is generally accepted as people here have at different times criticized Rio,Fellaini,Welbeck,our wing play and of course David Moyes.
Unless Rooney is now an Agent Smith who inhabits the bodies of the aforementioned people i don't see why anybody would blame Rooney for the failings of other adult men!

chamotex: For me, good management still plays a huge role, we can sign the best players, if they are not utilised corectly with the right formation/tactics we would still struggle in some ways.

Come on we have Chicha, Zaha, Kagawa etc...these players are decent enough and with our current performances they can't even get a game, what does that tell you?



How can a club like united scrap such a vital role...the mind boggles

I completely agree with you that is why i was usually against those who were always quick to criticize SAF team selections and substitutions here. They did not understand how good we had it for years, Fergie was dominating a top league like the EPL with above average players and challenging periodically in Europe also.
We all agree we need a better manager than Moyes but barring a catastrophe of monumental proportions e.g relegation battle, i suspect he will get 2 seasons at least to prove himself. Therefore i don't see any changes in manager mid-season and at the end of this season, however if we can't improve the manager for now at least we can improve the players. With better players he would find it a lil more difficult to mess things up.
PLUS Rio and Giggs need to retire and we should sell off all dead wood e.g Asinine Young,Anderson,Fellaini e.t.c

chamotex: Quick question guys, who in our backroom staff replaced Rene as our technical coach? Please don't tell me it's Phil Neville

And do you guys feel we would be able to sign marquee players if these dire performances continue?

The rot is setting in but the situation is still salvageable.
Its very likely we wont make top 4 this season and that would be very bad BUT the disaster would be if we miss out on it again next season. Missing out on the champions league 2 years in a row would set us on a slide of liverpudlian proportions.
Now some will say aiming for top 4 is defeatist,well to them i say look at the league table (we are not even in the europa league places).
To answer your question we can still sign marquee players if we pay top dollar for REALISTIC targets in January or at the end of THIS season. However if as time goes on we remain mediocre we would find it more and more difficult to sign world class talent.

A-40:
Where is El-Guapo that was raving about Luiz? Luiz ko Hamilton ni! That one na player?


A 120kg ninja would be an undersized linebacker in the NFL at best! Linebacker is not even the largest position. Let's see the rugby ninja that would survive 320+ pound defensive tackles and nose tackles like Vince Wilfork,Casey Hampton or Haloti Ngata padding or no padding

Rugby wey like 7 or 8 ninjas go form convoy dey throw ball to themselves na him you dey compare to gridiiron? Taaa


Protection doesn't do much judging by the post-career nervous problems these ninjas deal with! The violence and carnage is far beyond what rugby can provide

I am actually on your side, however its a fact that NFL players wear more protection than rugby players. Having said that the NFL is more violent than rugby, the players are bigger,faster and more violent and the hits are more vicious

we won the season last season because
a) we had SAF a legendary winner with EPL experience......now he is gone and his likes are rare

b) our rivals were weak......they have all strengthened this season liverpool,arsenal,chelsea,city and spurs have all improved their squads from last season.
the manager seems to be rubbish yes but don't overestimate the quality of our players.
when i say wholesale i don't mean the whole team but for starters
1) rio ferdinand and ryan giggs should retire
2) ashley young and anderson sold.....one for being asinine and the other for being fat and not delivering on potential
3) fellaini sold off to a mugu russian club or something for 20 million pounds
4) rooney sold to a mugu french club like PSG or Monaco
5) possibly a world class center back to ease vidic out the door soon

6) REPLACE THESE PLAYERS WITH REAL QUALITY!
especially in central midfield

SAF spoiled a lot of United fans by winning titles with mediocre squads. ever since tevez and ronaldo left the teams we have put out have been average, the only reason i had faith in us still competing for titles was the old gaffer. now he has left the mediocrity of most of these players will be exposed

those changes were idiotic.
this is a manager who all his life has played not to lose rather than play to win.
the title is definitely out of the equation however top 4 is still possible to salvage the season.
one thing is certain ,wholesale changes are needed in the team come winter and the next off season.
if that doesnt work moyes will get the sack sometime next season

dayokanu: And one toad was comparing FAILLAINI to Javi Martinez on this thread

name and shame! who is the toad?

david moyes shot himself in the foot with his substitutions AND his thick skukk has not yet processed the fact that United don't do 1-0s especially this present defence.
taking rooney off for smalling and taking nani off for giggs was idiotic to say the least

rooney and fellaini are competing for Poo.n.e.s.s today.
the ease with which fellaini has been beaten today is alarming and of course his brain seems too slow for the game

Rooney is having a stinker.
giving up the ball closer and closer to United's goal

♛AndrERush♛:
Truth be told, Vidic hasn't had the best of season so far, maybe Moyes is trying to send a message to him that he should step up or run the risk of losing his spot, Or maybe he just decided to go for mobility here. like I pointed out yesterday, mobility will be key against a team like Soton, hopefully Evans and Jones will step up and prove Moyes right.

yes hope they do.its a good line-up with lots of mobility in most areas apart from central midfield

montelik: Line-up: De Gea; Rafael, Jones, Evans, Evra, Nani, Carrick, Fellaini, Januzaj, Rooney, van Persie.

line-up is not bad,would have liked vidic there but he also has had his wobbles.

coogar: xavi-iniesta-busquets are tiki-taka.
they all form the trinity & this is why they are more important to the system than any manager in charge of them. these managers cannot deploy tiki-taka in any other team, it can only work with the current barca players - which destroys your argument that it's the managers. hell no, it's not the manager - it's the players.



that article is bullshyte!
any article with no quote or comment is a figment of imagination pulled out of the arsë of the sports writer.

then why single out iniesta and say "thanks to iniesta" like he was the reason for that.
also these players are the products of the environment and coaching they were lucky to receive from childhood.
La Masia is more important to tiki taka than any single player and we all know the author of that idea.
The manager of a team is more important than any single player when it comes to the style of the team's play.....let tony pulis or big sam take over bayern munich and see what they would play

LOL
The Wayward guy still dey vex me ehn

A-40:
Obviously you never saw a Steelers vs Ravens game. When you show me that rugby player that will survive a James Harrison sack or a T-sizzle, Ray Lewis blitz then you can get back to me! Rugby bawo?

Word! NFL players might wear more protection but the speed and force of collisions in the NFL is greater than rugby

coogar: you are talking bantu as usual....
barca under rijkaard, van gaal & cryuff never played like the barca side under pep. pep moved to bayern & bayern are not playing like the tiki-taka barca side. van gaal also managed bayern for a while & they did not play tiki-taka. therefore, the style is down to the current crop of barcelona players.....even del bosque had to adapt his tactics to fit into what xaviesta offer - that's the fact!!

but you think you are not talking more bantu?
so in your mind Iniesta (one player) is the reason Barca play tiki-taka not the decades of coaching at La Masia that has churned out set after set of technically gifted players and evolved to the apotheosis we witnessed recently?
even if one is to go with that unsound reasoning is xavi not as important or even more important to their tiki taka style?

chamotex: Cleverley is not fit

hmmm thats not good news.
the other obvious options are anderson and phil jones......hope that otondo manager doesn't play giggs in central midfield o
is fellaini fit?

coogar: if he was good enough to start, then he must be good enough to have at least helped france beat denmark & qualify for the 2nd round? what about the CL games against monaco(2004) & juventus(2003)? was zidane not undressed against substandard players? was he not sodomised against greece @ euro 2004?




chelsea went on to win that competition & we know the van was parked by di matteo. similarly in 2010(inter) & 2008(man utd), these teams had to swallow their pride to play negative football. iniesta wasn't dominated in these games, he had the lion share of the possession & territorial advantage but when a van is parked, all those stats come to nothing!



how can you play 90 mins & not fit?
zidane missed the first 2 games but he played in the last game. france had 1 point until the last game & they had the hope of qualifying if they had copped 3 points against denmark. zidane started the game & he was destroyed by gravesen! france lost 0-2. end of story!!!



zidane is not superior to xavi or iniesta. I cannot think of anything zidane does better than the barcelona pair. for years to come, they would be remembered as the stalwarts that changed modern football.

what's zidane legacy for real madrid, juventus or france? nothing! no style, no panache, no class. no team wanted to be like any of the teams zidane played for from 97-2006. every team today wants to be like barca/spain. all of a sudden, teaching young players how to keep the ball is now the most important aspect in football academies.

thanks to iniesta.....

Did u start watching football 5 years ago?
thanks to iniesta or thanks to Pep?
thanks to iniesta or thanks to Van Gaal?
thanks to iniesta or thanks to Cruyff?
thanks to iniesta or thanks to Rinus Michels?

very comical,so iniesta is now the author of Barca's style?

chamotex: Abeg who is here to talk about Southampton tomorrow

.......................de gea

....rafael.....evans....vidic....evra

............carrick.........cleverly ?

....valencia......rooney.....nani

.............RVP...............

Adnan and Kagawa to be the first to come off the bench if attack finds it sticky. Ashley Young loaned to Okomu Oil

coogar: zidane played against denmark in france's most important game in that group & france lost woefully. let's stop overhyping zidane cos memories can't really pick all the games he was dismembered.

there's no midfield player in the history of the game that has made opponents suffer like iniesta. he broke the hearts of chelsea fans in the semis of 2009 CL. his goal broke hearts in the last world cup final @ extra time. he's more of a complete midfielder than zidane was. the only player ahead of him(arguably) is xavi!

Zidane missed the opening matches and was obviously not fit for that last match. The only reason he was used in that match was cos their confederation of highest goal scorers ( Cisse,Trezeguet,Henry ) had failed woefully and they were desperate to try anything even an unfit Zidane.

Your comparison entered the realms of Laffmattaz when you included Riquelme in your list. The others are not so comical but Zidane is still superior to them

debosky: Good comedy on this thread. Valencia being compared to Beckham - only on the United thread.

LOL...... I still kinda believe they are joking

StarBoard: In Milan, what were the roles of Gattuso, Ambrosini, Pirlo among others?
Was Beckham a starter and was he a better cm player than any of these players?
Bring out his assists, pass completion figures, successful tackles and relevant stats to prove that he was an effective CMer rather than a marketing strategy to sell shirts.
And I still ask whether Beckham couldn't have solvedEngland's creativity problems while he played for them.
After all his versatility should have given the sides he played for an x-factor.

we are not comparing beckham to beckenbauer,bobby charlton or di stefano......... we are comparing him to antonio valencia.
how many matches has valencia played and against what opposition has he played in the right back position for you to label him versatile?

StarBoard: Ignorant?
Let me see.
The Madrid of 2003-07 had Figo, Raul, Ronaldo de Lima, zidane, Hierro, Roberto Carlos,among others yet they were sh*t in your eyes.
I think the joke is on you.
They weren't good enough. Maybe they werent but the collection of talent was sufficient to win more than the one Liga title in that era. Unless you weren't watching then.


Still no one is yet to address the issue about his sides not being able to benefit from his versatility.

A team having a versatile player does not mean they must win all titles in sight, they might actually not win anything( other factors come into play).
A tree(even a versatile one) does not make a forest.
Please dont forget the genesis of this particular debate.
How does Valencia's handful of Right back appearances make him more versatile than a player who played so many more times at CM and Right midfield and Right wing for some of the biggest clubs across multiple leagues?
nobody is calling beckham bobby charlton but please what has valencia done for anybody to say he is more versatile than beckham?

♛AndrERush♛:
Because a single player will make a team win a title right?. Don't talk like an ignorant person. No matter how great a player is, if your defense is sh*t you will concede loads of goals, there's nothing you can do about it. If your strikers can't score a goal to save their lives, there's nothing you can do about that as well. Madrid didn't win much during his time there because the team as a whole wasn't good enough, it's not that Beckham was doing a bad job.

I agree with you, just don't get that line of argument.
So 1 player in a team of stars is the reason why the team failed to win multiple titles?
or is it that versatility is the only quality needed to win titles?
the fact is this ; beckham played over 100 matches in central midfield with Real Madrid, AC Milan, PSG and LA Galaxy winning 3 or so league titles in that position. what has Valencia done as a right back for anyone to say he is more versatile?

Beckham was a hard running central midfielder for most of his time at Real Madrid and he played both central midfield and right midfield at Milan.

I dont see what Valencia has done for anybody to label him more versatile than Beckham. Playing a few matches here and there at right back is not the same as playing over 100 matches for Madrid at central midfield.

The only qualities in which Valencia beats Beckham are speed and strength. How can you doubt that Beckham has more football IQ than Valencia?
Its not me lauding Beckham's intelligence,its just an indictment of Valencia's stupid moves especially when he keeps leaving spaces on the inside of the full back to try and go to the corner flag where the full back is already waiting for him.
If ignoring swathes of open field leading to opponents goal post in order to run blindly at a full back isn't stupidity then what is?

A-40:
Valencia being compared to Beckham? Lele ooo chineke!

bros i tire o!

RuuDie: I'd go for Valencia on the basis of strength, speed, aerial ability, work-rate and versatility. I think he packs a more ferocious shot (but doesn't use often) than Becks and even though he is terribly one-way, he does at least make a conscious effort to get behind his marker unlike Becks!

how?
beckham played right wing and also played central midfield at other times (including a champion's league final).
strength and speed yes valencia but these are qualities he shares with ahmed musa ,manga mohammed, pius ikedia, stanley okoro amongst other highly esteemed and much beloved brainless one-way runners. Valencia and these guys are so one-way LASTMA and FRSC would detain them on any given Sunday.
Beckham beats him hands down in crossing ability, passing ability(long and short), free kicks, finishing and general goal scoring ability and of course football IQ

short passing-------beckham

long range passing------beckham

crossing-------beckham

shooting-------beckham

goals-------beckham

free kicks--------beckham

football intelligence-----beckham

speed--------tony valencia

I think this is a fair assessment

dayokanu: Berbatov? What has he ever achieved in his career or done? Whether at Neverkusen, Spurs Manure or Fulham aside playing like a premature child

When in the same EPL Bale won PFA player of the year twice and was in PFA team of the year 3 times, How many times did Valencia or Young make it.

Bale came from neither a top country nor a top club, Valencia has been playing at a top club for over 4yrs yet no one ranks him higher than Manga Mohammed.

Cavani, Falcao two of the top 5 most expensive footballers are neither from great clubs nor from great footballing countries




Its only those playing Monkey post football that would say Okocha was worth anything in football.

Etoo is camerounian is he not one of the top strikers of his generation ?

Same with Yaya Toure, Drogba are these not Africans? Didnt Weah win WPOTY as a Freaking Liberian?

Its when some people are incompetent that they usually play the dumb race card. Is Okocha more African than Etoo, Weah, Toure, Drogba that get worldwide acclaim

Soon we would hear if Ahmed Musa was Caucasian he would bench Hazard

abeg tell them.
i don't believe anybody is denying there was media hype behind beckham, but media hype alone does not get you 5 consecutive top 10 places in the World Footballer of the Year awards.
i really can't believe we are having this debate. Antonio Valencia? SMH

coogar: david beckham is simply a hype generated by the english media. if he's nigerian, he wouldn't even make the super eagles team. how come finidi george(who's supremely more talented than beckham) never made it to the top 300 of footballers in europe?

if berbatov was english, he would be valued @ £200m because there would be a massive hype from the media about him. that's the way football works in europe. the british hype gassed gareth bale up & he suddenly became £86m in value. is bale better than nani or even nasri? you either come from a big footballing country or play for a big club to reach those top 10 heights.

okocha is 50,000 times better than beckham but he won't get near becks on the player ranking cos he's nigerian & his best shot was playing for bolton fc. tony valencia of 09/10 that destroyed bayern munich at old trafford was head & shoulders better than beckham of 98/99 season - all the wingers we have had in the senior team since beckham left are all better as well including ashley young.

OK

Seriously? Antonio Valencia?
That guy has pace and nothing else and he is as one-way as a ticket to the afterlife

Like i said when he first came to United he could have been a success only at a club like Wigan where he was not under scrutiny.
You can not be so decidedly unidirectional in a big club with such a limited skill set and believe full backs wont catch up to you eventually and that is what happened to Valencia.

He is 28yrs old and at his age Beckham had already been number 2 in the world twice including losing narrowly (to Figo i think).
And the award is voted on by national team coaches and captains so i have a feeling its not because Beckham was English or handsome

P.S crossing the ball is the primary function of a winger and Beckham was possibly the best we ever had in that,Valencia is not even close.
we have not even mentioned the goals that Becks scored himself.