₦airaland Forum

All so niether of those pic are of in servise spartans. Just pointing that out.

Capnd143: i confidently belive that you are lying, in the south africa storage there is no such thing as 1000 units of AML cars(even google says so) unless you prove me wrong with weblinks!
___

thank you andrewza! According to http://www.wargame-wiki.com/FV103_Spartan the Fv103_spartan is NATO top choice for transporting personel to enemy defended areas! (APC)! And to say the least it is the same type used by the UK,OMAN,IRAQ etc! Think bro . . . I hope its bouncing in, we aint buying poo!
these are some pics of it
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3429/3775682515_62a36b4941.jpghttps://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv9/Ryn0-/spartan-mainL.png?t=1261422076https://www.enemyforces.net/apc/fv103_spartan.jpg

Weblink.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eland_Mk7#section_1




Never said it was bad. Just a odd choice. UK uses it to transport small speciol units such has MANPAD teams, motar teams, scouts extra extra. Nigeria is fighting a low instiy war, peace keeping, COIN war. The M113 would be a better tracked APC or just get MRAPs

CAMEROONPRIDE: Ghana was already independent. Sir

It independents was declerd in 1957 and became rebulic in 1960

MsDarkSkin: Good. You know whats up.
I like that.

I just don't think blacks in amrica did any thing for the blacks in Africa and vis versa.

MsDarkSkin: Lol my point still stands and youre still helping me prove it.
I thank u.

Who siad I was trying to disproove it

MsDarkSkin: My point EXACTLY.

Garvey DIED in 1960...he was long known waaay before malcom little became malcom x

And ghanaians knew who garvey was because of his black star line paper which inspired them to use the black star

This is what wikpeadia says


Malcolm X had visited the United Arab Republic, Sudan, Nigeria, and Ghana in 1959 to make arrangements for a tour by Elijah Muhammad.[124] After Mecca he visited Africa a second time, returned to the United States in late May,[125] then flew to Africa again in July.[126] During these visits he met officials, gave interviews, and spoke on television and radio in Egypt, Ethiopia, Tanganyika, Nigeria, Ghana, Guinea, Sudan, Senegal, Liberia, Algeria, and Morocco.[127] In Cairo, he attended the second meeting of the Organization of African Unity as a representative of the Organization of Afro-American Unity.[128]Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana, Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, and Ahmed Ben Bella of Algeria invited Malcolm X to serve in their governments.[129] Following a speech at the University of Ibadan, the Nigerian Muslim Students Association bestowed on him the honorary Yoruba name Omowale ("the son who has come home";[130] he later called this his most treasured honor.[131]

By the time he returned to the US in November, Malcolm X had met with every prominent African leader.[129]













So I don't know what to say on this. Other than I would not brag about it.

MsDarkSkin: When did he go to ghana before or after listening to garvey sir? And you dont have to buy, because im not selling. Im telling!

Foh. Youre delusional.

Around 1959 and afterwards.

Are the BA still going on about this thing.

I had a look at those pics. At least one is of a Spartan APC ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV103_Spartan#section_1 )

I have no idea why nigeria would buy/build them. They carry a rather small number of passangers. The a 1970s ear AFV so may have been a second hand purches. Unless some one in the know is looking out for it. No one would no about a second hand sale.

The other are to blurry or not enough of it is in the pic or I have no idea what it is.

The patrol boat could be a reworked and refurbished work boat of some type.

Capnd143: [b] now how those this affect the fact that we will be receiving 24 unmaned Airial vehicles. And 1 Unmaned combat airial vehile aka predator drone? . . . .
---
common buddy! You are better than this an i knw surely! NIgerian military budget is well over $4.6BILLION when rounded up! And south africa military which is underfunded and overstreched according to
--http://www.marketresearch.com/Business-Monitor-International-v304/South-Africa-Defence-Security-Q1-7192426/
__is just $400m ahead of us! More so, the govt of Nigeria always approved extra-budgetery spending(deficit) for defense purposes, and we have almost $22.5billion dollar debt(mostly on defense) accrued due to proposed military spending according to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AtDK1pezEHGzdEhiOEZ1c21ibWpvTmd6ZzV4RFlXMEE#gid=0 and NDSD! Now you knw how far $22.5 billion can do things!(and 4 the record our minister of finance said the debt will be handled next week)!

According to http://beegeagle. there are several APC's,tanks and refurbished naval patrol vehicle spotted in Nigerian military bases that have been procured/supplied without anyones knwoledge, even top military media correspondent said the didnt know about, saying the were nt in the budget nor extra-budgetry plans!!! NIGERIAN MILITARY HAS Never announced its intension to acquire any major military equipment unlike other nations!

We have in storage tons of servicable weapons, including patrol boats,.50 cal, M134's,4x4 and 8x8 AFV's,rocket launchers,blowpipes,etc seized from former Militants(over 35,000 weapons) who accepted armnesty , and Boko haram(pending) who are arrested! The list keeps on going bro! . . . . Remember
---
---
"DEFEAT THE ENEMY WITH THE ELEMENT OF SUPRISE"[/b]

According to your own 2013 budget report it comes out around 3 billion USD.

Has said before we underfunded. But the budget has increased.

The big problem is we got a lot more ops going than the money covers. This takes money other areas. These are non opertaniol side so training(training is part of ops) and actual missions are not affected niether is personal. What is affect is maitnaince. Now maintaince is not just milltary equment but everthing from printers(and some are massive) and fax machines to civlian standard cars all the way to drills and chipping hammars. Personealy I have seen no change and it hard to see why. The SANDF total permant force size is not inceasing so all extra money can go towards areas that are underfunded.

If they where built local there is a high chance of it staying secruit. DIXCON has no need to report what they don't import.

SA all so have tones of wepaons in storage such has alleot helcopter, up to 1000 AML armourd cars extra extra. It nothing speciol.

agaugust: andrewza, if you have time, i want to take on you, just you and me one on one if you are not afraid. nobody else allowed to interfere, we have a few issues about some selected weapons to resolve before this thread continues for you and me. if you have a day you will be with laptop let me know.

i am free tomorrow sunday 24 hours if you are free let me know. we can settle those issues in just 4 hours on-line through this nairaland, when we finish, our other friends can read it and comment, but they should not interfere while we settle the issues, people like msauza and snydergp cause confusion telling lies.

I am no expert on every thing. I have a few freinds and people I know in other branches. So there are some things I won't know. If you actually go through this thread you will see there lots of posts I don't anserw. But I am game.

agaugust: south african defence budget includes heavy costs of soldiers salaries and allowances, as well as other basic overhead infrastructure and huge maintenance costs which will swallow up a large percentage of south african defence budget, all that budget is not for new weapons.
[b]
nigeria is at a stage of massive large scale purchase of brand new modern sophisticated weapons for the army and navy, more army amoured vehicles, more navy missile/helicopter stealth warships for deep ocean and shallow coast/rivers, anti-submarine helicopters from france, etc all have been already paid for and will be delivered 2013-2014. andrewza himself posted website info for this between pages 68 and 74 or so.

new intergrated modern and advanced air defense systems of sophisticated israeli electronics and latest indian missiles and electronics combined. the israeli air defence is for all nigerian coastline from east to west and it has been started and paid for fully it will be the same as israeli standard used for israel itself in air defence.

the indian air defence intergrated elecronics and missile system has just been signed and its terms of agreement includes joint technology input from nigerian engineers and scientists and nigerian DICON weapons manufacturing company, and also huge money funding from nigerian ministries of finance and defense so that nigeria will also have the missile and electronics technology to manufacture it in near future after this current installation starting from 2013.

nigerian airforce is told to wait until their argument and debate is concluded on the choice of new airforce air superiority jet fighter still under debate among air marshals and ministry of defence to choose between russian latest SU-30 new flanker C, or chinese/pakistani JF-17 thunder, or new chinese J-20 stealth jet 5th generation fighter in testing stage till 2017 favoured by some nigerian military officers want only stealth jets and ships to be purchased by nigeria frrom now on.[/b]

too much is going on in nigerian military weapons now, and how many can we write? nigerian military hates photos of their weapons so we cannot get photos to post. electronic air defence system of every wise country is usually a guarded secret when it comes to details, no country will give out details of computer capabilities of its electronics in its air defence because of risk of cyber warfare computer based enemy hacking and virus attacks.

i will post weblink source of the the israeli coastal air defence package later today with the few of some naval air and sea water drones photos and weblinks.

andrewza, if you have time, i want to take on you, just you and me one on one if you are not afraid. nobody else allowed to interfere, we have a few issues about some selected weapons to resolve before this thread continues for you and me. if you have a day you will be with laptop let me know.

i am free tomorrow sunday 24 hours if you are free let me know. we can settle those issues in just 4 hours on-line through this nairaland, when we finish, our other friends can read it and comment, but they should not interfere while we settle the issues, people like msauza and snydergp cause confusion telling lies.

About 50%(it was 60% but we just got a budeget increase with out a personal increase) of the current budget will be for personeal. The maitance is the.

I have mentioned SA's purcheses new corvets/OPVs IPVs (and we currentl renvating 4 old strike craft/opv)
New IFV
New communcation sytem
New MPA
Extra extra.

We may have budget shorteges but what about nigeria then. I heard Nigerian solders in Sudan threatend muitny if they did not get paid there unpiad allwances and be transported back to nigeria. That will never happen in SA since we actualy budegt for our operations. All so spending on personal is missleading. People assum it is just pay but there is a lot more to it.

Capnd143: hahahahagahagagagaga! Why would i temper/inflate figures when anyone can access it via internet! Including you! I would have asked you to visit Nigerian department of state defense website bt since you are a non-nigerian your ip wil be denied aces to the budget! Try using http://z9.invisionfree.com/21c/ar/t11786.htm

I post both South africas and nigerias deffesnse budget some post ago's.

Rounded of
Nigeria was over 3 billion USD
SA was over 5 billion USD and with a much smaller deffense force the per capter expedture is much much higher for SA



SA total budget for 2013 is 3 to 4 times larger than Nigeria. And since SA popultion is 55 million with mayber 10 million forghners compared to 170 million nigerians in nigeria.

Capnd143: Nigeria (Esco) - July 22, 2012 04:52 PM (GMT)
Nigeria 's Military Budget
Military Budget
QUOTE
Payment Plan
RU-2012-$96,000,000,2013-$511,600,000,2013-$288,000,000
USA-2012-$116,500,000 (Pending)
South African-2012-$80,000,000, 2013-$130,000,000 , 2013-$42,500,000
Ukraine-2012-$8,500,000
China-2012-$10,000,000, 2014-$945,000,000-2015-$931,472,000-2016-$931,472,000
UK-2013-$150,000,000
QUOTE
2012 Purchases
RU
(24) Dozor 600 UAV--$96,000,000 (Delivery scheduled for Q4 2013)
(15)-Mi-35M -$240,000,000 ( delivered by Q3 2013)
(6)-Ka-50N-$140,000,000 ( delivered by Q3 2013)
(100)-BTR-T APC-$40,000,000 (upgraded from Nigeria's T-55 stock) ( delivered by Q3 2013)
(300)-GAZ-2975 'Tigr' HMMMV:-$30,000,000 ( delivered by Q3 2013)
(77)-T-72BM-$61,600,000 (upgraded from Nigeria T-72 stock) ( upgrades will be completed by Q1 2013)
(2)-Mi-26T2-$36,000,000 (delivered in Q4 2013)
(4)-Ka-29TB-$48,000,000 (delivered in Q4 2013)
(3)-Ka-60/64-$36,000,000 (delivered in Q4 2013)
(1)-Il-76MF-$50,000,000 (delivered in Q4 2013)
(12)-Mi-17/Mi-8 (Variants: (10) Mi-17-1V and (2) Mi-17-1VA)-$108,000,000 (delivered in Q4 2013)
(100)-KAB-1500LG-Pr-E (Variants: (50) KAB-1500LG-F-E, (25) KAB-1500LG-OD-E, and (25) KAB-1500LG-Pr-E-$10,000,000 (delivered in Q4 2013)
USA
(1) MQ-9 Reaper UCAV (4-unit system)
(100) EGBU-12 Paveway II 500-lb-$116,500,000 (Delivery scheduled for Pending)
South African
(30) G6-52ER 155mm SPH-$210,000,000 (Delivery scheduled for Q3 2013, with the final units delivered by Q12015)
(25)-Rooikat 76-$55,000,000 (delivery by Q1 2013, with final deliveries in Q3)
Ukraine
(-BTR-4 APC-$8,500,000 (delivered by Q2 2013)
China
(5)-ZBD-97-$10,000,000 (4Q2013)
(33) ZBD-97s-(free vehicles for the purpose of training and maintenance)
(95) ZBD-97s-$195 million (45 ZBD-97 delivered 1Q2013) ( 50 vehicles delivered 1Q 2014)
(10) L-15 Advanced Jet Trainers-$150 million (can I be provided with a delivery date)
(24) JH-7A-$600 million (24 JH7A aircraft will be delivered 1Q 2014)
UK
(300)-ILAV Badger -$150,000,000-(Badger ILAV (200) 6x6 configuration and (100) 4×4) (Deliveries complete by first quarter of 2014)

I am failing to under stand this post.

[quote author=Proud.SAfrican]by the way South Africa isn't a developed country its quite far from it.[/quote]Though you correct it is still "more" developed any other african country. Though there are city's in africa that are advance there is no other country in more advance than SA.

azpekuliar: The Chinese military is no match/threat for American might! This isn't World War 2 where the sheer number of men the Soviets could muster propelled them to victory over Nazi Germany.
The American military might be smaller than the Chinese in terms of personnel, but is way way ahead in it's use of smart, high precision-based weaponry and military technology.

Chinas milltary is not all about numbers. They are very advance. Not at the level of USA but enough that there numbers equalse it. All so I never said deaft I said threaten.

There is talk of forming a speciol SADC force that will have one job. Destroy M23. Though right now it only in the disscusion phase.

If NK dose launch a attack on the USA I wonder who would destroy NK first. Amrica or china. Though China has a milltary that would be a real threat to the USA, they don't want war with them(yet) since that would be killing there biggest market for there goods. NK provides nothing for china other than hardship and I am shocked they never went the root of russia and give up on them.

With all his faults he is still one of the best leaders the world has seen. And he has far more good for his people than bad and his death is a blow to humantie.

khiaa: I think you need to check yourself and stop with the useless akata remarks. Why are you here in America if Cameroon is so great. Remember AA are the ones who made it possisble for you to be in this country, believe me when I say the white man hates you more ( you being an African ) than he hates any AA.

How did black amricans help. Please do tell me, because has far has I know only cubans and to a lesser degree ussr actualy helped. The rest including black amricans just spoke. And goverments don't fear words they fear action.

all4naija: Is now I know you are a big empty head! Quoting my comment line by line leaving out the meaningful things to only prove your points talks a lot about who you are. You couldn't define economy in your comment yet you are asking people to educate me on what GDP means. It is like you are hearing of it the first time. Gross Domestic product(GDP) is the market value of all goods and services produced within a nation at a period of a given time, usually a year. It is determined by three factors, which are output(as in production volume), income and expenditure approaches.The most visible of these three factors is the production. For your information economy is not all about GDP, which is just part of it.


You are so confused that you are now using lead as an excuse to cover up what my question was about when I use equate. I am the person who used the word EQUATE to ask you a question, big head. You keep coming around to fool yourself yet claiming to be enlightened on economic matters on African growth.

It is clear in your statement you don't know what invention,organizability and cooperation mean. I would advice you to look for their definitions on-line before coming around to post another comment.

However, I can barely understand how what you are saying really point to what I am talking about. Most of what you answered line by line are just mere references by me to let you know those are not what I was discussing with the person I response to prior to this argument.

Give it up because you are only embarrassing yourself again as usual.

You said a bunch of stuff but faild to adress the points raised.

all4naija: What does that say of your country having the world worst inequality? This statement is only binding if you have evidences to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the World Bank Gini index report on SA inequality is wrong.

The reason SA is organized than Nigeria is not the issue but how organized the blacks South Africans are in that society is what I would like you to point out with facts. When immigrants are brutally murdered on the streets, youths engage in crimes, increase in r-a-p-e-s only can be compared to that of Congo, dehumanising Nigerians at the ports of entering, putting all blames on Nigerians for crimes committed by citizens, increase in HIV/AIDS due to promiscuity, child abuses, police are becoming villains, xenophobic inclination, etc. I can't seem to phantom what is so organized about blacks in your society when those factors are of high magnitude.

Thank you.

There is a huge gap between our rich and poor. But our poor are not has poor has many other countries the problem is our rich and middel class have so much more money. Look at a number UN reports and you will see nigeria has more people in povety than SA per capter.


There are a larg number of Black orgonistions, they all so run the country pretty while. If you statting poor people are not orgonised say that. It has less to do with skin collor and more to do with social econmic conditions.

all4naija: Beside the jail and suspension pronouncements this case reveals how that society is way barbaric in handling crimes. They commit crime to fight crimes. Which is too bad of them. Many South Africans would come around to lay claims to how civilized and developed their society is yet what comes out daily on the news is shocking and points to uneducated citizens.

I dare you point to me how jail term and suspension find solutions to this primitive attack on innocent person on the street? Why didn't they handle the situation maturely even if the person in question is found with something incriminating? This is where I mostly disagree with many South Africans in this forum. How in the whole wide world would the police being acting as criminals?

Mind you South Africa being one-eye-nation of Africa the people think they can do anything they like to immigrants. It's a sad thing though. I look forward to the day this issue of xenophobic inclinations would be treated as high crime in that society but I doubt it will ever come.

Are they any better than your secirty personal who have straight out excuted people.

Beacause they wanted to hurt him. I don't agree with what they did but in SA Jail the worst you can get.

You blam south africa for miss treating fornghners of whom there are millions. If it is so bad why do they stay and more and more come to join them.

morpheus24: Glad you clarified. They don't want the poor ones here and most likely the "black" ones either. If a Rich Nigerian man like Dangote who makes legit money moved to Sandton, he would still be considered an intruder by other Black south africans but if an EU citizen moved here with his SA girlfriend or boyfriend... "stole" a job from a qualified SA and now enjoys all the benefits of the country, he will be glorified as adding to the SA economy.

Your "people" have some serious issues to start resolving before they start talking bad about other people.

iam glad as a Whie SA you embrace all of your countries complexities s we do here in Nigeria.

I think it is less a race thing and more a econmic thing. If a rich leget bussniens man had to movie in to sandton his nerbors would not see it has a big deal has long has he dose not do any thing extrem like throwing massive parts he would not be harrsed by them. Of course wether any would be come his freinds is a nother thing.

Case in point is where I live, simonstown. There are a larg number of forghners from both africa and asia. The local population is at least lower middel class and has no fear of there job being stolen. So no xenophioba.

Compare that to a township. Poor people who feel threated that they will loose there jobs.

Capnd143: wrong! Even the west knows that those coastline are under nigerian influence! The security of the gulf of guinea is Nigerias obligation along side neigbouring nation! Check how the international dailies reported it;

yahoo: SA provocatively sends warship to gulf,NIGERIAS TRADITIONAL SPHERE OF INFLUENCE!
When the matter was brought up the SA claimed having informed nigerian C-in-C and ghanians!

And to further show how biased .co.za domain media are, the always critize,exagerate matters of less significance! Just take a look this:
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/sa-sends-warship-to-gulf-of-guinea-1.1027637http://m.mg.co.za/index.php?view=article&urlid=2008-05-20-nigeria-becomes-world-piracy-hot-spot&views=1&mobi=true&KEY=hqdhrjh73a9thp5bgrlk8kct41

Then why did no nigerian ship even come close to Drakies

Many of the reports made a big thing about the deployment. Such has calling drakies a frigat. SAS drakensberg is a combat suport ship. It only armend for self deffense. Though it can carry a larg number of solders and a nice amount of helicpters and small boats it not a combat ship.

Nigeria has had more piarte attacks this year so than the east coast so far. So how is the report biased or incorrect.

Henry120: It gets derailed to easily because you and your compatriots are always hell bent on painting nigeria black. We as nigerians would not stand for that.

No hatred on the nigerian side, as it is usually syndergp and msuaza both of whom are your country men who have continued to show their xenophobic traits on this thread, and we nigerians would definitely not take that lying down. There is nothing wrong in been patriotic and we have not peddled any form of mis information as we always provide links and photos to prove you guys wrong.

I have to disagree. It takes 2 to have a agument. All sides are to blame for derailment.

Capnd143: truely speaking bro! This comment doesnt hold water! How does EU air restriction affect the topic at hand? And crashing of planes?

Please bro, with due respect always analyze certain points before posting bro! And you keep calling nigerian navy sh*t navy! Lol bro! If the were that sh*t as you claimed then why did SA withdraw it warship 4rm the gulf of guinea which is a Nigerian sphere of influnce and patrol by nigerian naval forces? The should have push forward rather than tender an apology! Then surely the would have felt the wrat of the Great nigerian Navy!

It did not retreat. I spoke to people that where on that trip. Non where worried about any nigerian ships or aircraft. They had a mission and after it was done they sailed back.

morpheus24: AndrewZA. The stats still doesn't cover up What all4 naija is alluding to in most of his posts whic is the overwhelming existence of xenophobia in black SA for other Africans which is constantly displayed in acts such as the dragging death of the mozambican and numerous other incidents that occur with poor African migrants. Remove Nigerians from the EQUATION and you will still find the exact same attitudes in Black SA

ITs time they face up to the demons that hunt them from their past and understand the new world they live in post Apathied where basically they were shielded from the rest of the world and African in particular.

The problems stems from the evil remnants of the attitudes of Apatheid regime which has bred ignorance, a terrible educational system for blacks, self esteem issues, lack of ability to compete in a global market and impunity for corrupt officials.

SOUTH AFRICA.... WELCOME TO POST COLONIAL AFRICA!!!

I don't dissputed that. Many south african at least don't want forghners here(or at least the poor ones) and there are a to large a number that hate them down here.

Capnd143: [b]i stand to strongly disagree bro! The Shaldags Mk.2 which were delivered to our navy bt never documented was built by a prominent and recognise isreali company; known as the ISREAL SHIPYARDS LTD. The were awarded certificate of standard on 1st january 2010 by Isreali Standard organisations! So the idea of trying to potray inferiority of our patrol boats will be a dillusion as our suppliers are world class ship builders! In addition to that, to refute your other point: it is very clear that Nigerian Navy might have been seeking confidential status of some sort which made the isreali rarely mention the name of our navy whenever we are the customer, rather when the officials are asked of their customer the refer to NN AS "AN AFRICAN Nation". You can glance through isreali-nigerian warship deals to confirm that! Even here on it website i even found them using same phrase http://www.israel-shipyards.com/news.asp

I biefe deffensweb had a artical on them.



NN has a lot of really nice fast patrol boats. SA has only smaller type harbor patrol boats, and riven patrol boats. Though both have 7.62mm and 12.7mm MGs and 30plus knots speed they don't have the range
Then there is the boats launched for anti piracy they rated to carry 20mms, 12,7mms and of course 7,62mms. But that would mean sacrificing carry space.
The vredenberg class work boat where used in river patrol during the boarder war but would not be much use in open ocean patrol.

agaugust: if you cannot find source weblink to prove your comment its better you keep silent and wait till you have proof.

I am using me cellphone too, so not only you. I am at work and my boss is in meeting with some military officers so I secretly use my mobile phone to browse internet.

Maybe you are frustrated because south African army is almost defeated by ethiopian army as the public can now see and laugh.

I can't let miss truths remian.

Is that against ops second


No I proofed that wrong. It 3 things

1 this thread gets derialed to easyly

2 people think to patroticly, with hatred, or straight miss infomation.

3 I keep posting reposnse that then get redirected.

agaugust: Henry quoted his own source we see it, so you need to quote your own source for us to see. Stop writing your biased personal opinions for us to read on this forum, we are not illiterates or 7 year old children.

andrewza you say you have no time to post web link sources for your unverified claims, but you still spend so much time to reply every new post from Nigerians almost immediately

I begin to see you andrewza losing your credibility and honesty like snydergp lost his own and msauza never had it at all.

What do you mean quoate a source. I gave the infomation. SANDF dose not publises there ops. I know the sub was at sea because I watched it sail, I know the ship was in south amrica because it was a large exersize.

I am on my cell phone. Do you know how hard it is to find sources.

I have not changed I am just getting frustaited.

agaugust: Great research job Henry. Not like south Africans on this forum who write personal opinion from their bedroom to deceive us. Thanks Henry

What reshearch. He qutoed a artical writen by the sme group of people that say our subs never sail while they at sea, our frigates never sail while they returning from south amrica, our helcoters never fly while they conducting recues.