₦airaland Forum

agaugust: andrewza try to rebuild your d.amaged credibility and honesty a little bit, all your past comments pages 82 to 84 carry no weblink to prove what you say, you just post what you think in your bedroom.

show us weblink or source of your claim that shows Grippen can handle SU-27 jet. i hope you know there are about 10 different versions of SU-27 in different countries. there has never been any combat between Grippen and SU-27 in this world as at today, so what is your source of information?

south african cannot use about 50 GV6 artillery to defeat ethiopian 1,200 artillery. range is not going eman any thing when ethiopia advances on you with artillery fire 10 times more than south african fire. the shells ethiopia fires in 6 minutes will take south africa a whole 1 hour to fire the same number of shells.

artillery war is a game of firepower and accuracy of it. andrewza your navy sea training makes you a bad judge of army land warefare. go back to school.

south african military modern weapons have NEVER k.lled any human being since you manufactured them. all ethiopian weapons have been used to k.ill in major big wars against eritrea, somalia, and a brief attack on sudan. almost all south african soldiers have NEVER fought any nation vs nation war since they joined the army. ethiopian soldiers were up to 350,000 men that fought in year 2000 against eritrea in a full scale war.

ethiopia has used her SU-27 to shoot down several MIG 29 of eritera. south african Grippen have never shoot down any enemy jet fighter since you purchased them.
most of the south african bush war pilots wouth have retired by now from a war of 25 years ago when they were already maybe over 15 years in service or would your pilots fly for 40 years in service?

also in the bush war, wikipedia history says the south african Mirage F-1 pilots always avoid the cuban MIG 23 jets in direct combat jet vs jet air to air. they only do close support to south african army.

ethiopian millitary will d.emolish south african military any time any day. the records of history and list of weapons favours ethiopia as likely winner in war against south africa

The web links are not there because I have been busy.
But it true. Has for the lCS I used a combonation of your own links and a greater under standing of navel ships.

It was post prevously

Yes I am well aware that there are many models and non have fought a against each other. But there are symiltions and war games.

You assume all there guns can and will be focused in one place. SA greatest strengh has all ways been mobilty letting us fight where we want. Hence such a high numbers of IFV/APC compared to the size of our armend forces.

Incorrect. Nave provides is set up to provide NGS. And we do have some infantry training.

Again incorrect. They have been used in self deffense in peace keeping missions and in anger by other countries.


You are correct but we have conducted a lot of training exersizes. There was one conducted in sweeden. I will get the right up again. Amrican pilots had no real experiance before first gulf war yet trashed the iraq army with more experiance due to training.

You correct. They where out classed. Hence the cheeta program that came to late and now the gripen. Has I said before SAAF was out classed in the Air to Air roll during most of the border war. Yet we still got a lot of kills for avoiding combat. One of the resones we replaced the cheeta was because of symulation vs the SU27 showed it off coming seconded

I have gone more indepth now why I diss agree. I do bielfe that there is no way either side could actually fight each other effectivly. So the war would be a phony war. Unlike Nigeria vs SA where we both have a coast.

agaugust: i am not surprised, i just found out all you south africans have problems with the truth if it does not favour south africa.

also andrewza has become very lazy in research or you just pretend not to know the truth by telling lies.

i posted my web source of the weapons and history of both ethiopia and south africa available free on internet websites. if you have different source for you faulty argument, please post your source for everyone to see here, we dont want you personal opinion that has no basis.

ethiopian army will almost d.estroy south african army anytime anyday, but i said both nations may end the war in a draw only because i dont jump to conclusion of which country will win a war until the war comes in real life, i am not a careless judge of military issues the way you south africans are.

really disappointed south african military men cannot think analytically in a complex situation, or maybe they just want to tell lies to avoid losing an argument

Find fault in my post.

I gave you my response and point out your faults now you respond by saying I am want to tell lies.

SA spends tiny fraction of what I can spend on deffense. And even then we have a higher deffense budget than nigeria and ethyopia. And we not even trying.

Henry120: From bully boys to wimps: the decline of SA's military
04 MAY 2012 00:00 - PHILLIP DE WET

A comprehensive review of SA's military capabilities paints a grim picture of the country's defence capabilities. Let's hope Lesotho doesn't invade.

OUR COVERAGE

What warship? Zuma claim holds no water
MORE COVERAGE




It is a good thing that Botswana, Namibia and Zimbabwe do not seem to have any territorial ambitions, because if they chose to annex a few South African provinces, the defence force would be hard-pressed to stop them, especially if Lesotho decided to get into the action.

A large and long overdue review of South Africa’s defence capabilities and needs, now in the phase of public consultation, paints a grim picture.

The country has too few fighting men and women, often with old or useless equipment, often without the discipline required to constitute an effective fighting force, little ability to deploy them rapidly, little by way of heavy equipment to back them up and a severely limited ability to communicate with them once they are in the field.


Shortcomings stretch from basic training to intelligence capability, leaving the defence force if not defenceless as such, at least easily out-matched by a sufficiently large multi-front attack using chemical or biological weapons, heavily armoured units or any combination of these.

And that is the formal, written version. In private, analysts and military professionals across the board scoff at the idea that South Africa could defend itself from any serious, determined, concerted attack almost as much as they scoff at the idea that such an attack could take place in the foreseeable future.

“We are not going to fight a conventional war in the short-to-medium term,” said Len le Roux, a retired major general and consultant to the Institute for Security Studies on defence policy.

But if national defence remains the real job of the defence force, the defence review says, then somebody will have to pay for it.

“The persistent disconnect between the defence mandate, government expectation and resource allocation has eroded defence capabilities to the point where the defence force is unable to fully deliver its constitutional responsibility to defend and protect South Africa and its people and further cannot even support the current modest level of ambition,” the discussion draft reads.

Although it takes a high-level strategic view and specifically steers clear of enumerating crises and the cost of fixing them, the 423-page document makes it abundantly clear that maintenance of crumbling runways, for instance, will not wait. And there is wide consensus that almost every capability the defence force has is fast being eroded.

“We are at the point where we have two choices: either we spend a big chunk of money, or we do not intervene and we accept that we are going beyond the point of no return,” said Abel Esterhuyse, associate professor of strategy at Stellenbosch University’s faculty of military science and editor of the South African Journal of Military Studies.

That does not mean splurging on capital equipment arms-deal style. Both the review and analysts who were not involved in its drafting said operational funds were what was most desperately needed—money for the everyday running of the armed services rather than expensive equipment. What the existing forces need instead is to actually use their equipment, including what has already been bought at such expense and controversy.

“You have aircraft like the Gripen ... unless you have a certain number of flying hours a month you begin to lose the skills of the pilots and you can quite easily dig a large hole in the ground with a supersonic jet,” said David Chuter, a lecturer, a writer on defence and a former British defence official with a long history of project involvement in South Africa.

“The risk is that quite soon you have the pilot and you have the aircraft, but you don’t have a pilot capable of flying the aircraft effectively.”

Defence against the type of aggression that requires a Gripen fighter jet is not South Africa’s main area of concern at the moment, but the principle seems to hold true for the duties the military, air force and navy are carrying out.

Insufficient practice compounds problematic hardware and initial training and results in a force that has neither the credibility required to deter aggression nor the ability to fight poachers in the Kruger Park or pirates off the Mozambican coast. And there is a sense of near despair at the failure of politicians who order such tasks to fund them.

“Border protection was given back to the defence force from the South African Police Service [in 2010] without any substantial increase in budget to do that,” said Roelf Meyer, chairperson of the committee responsible for the defence review. “If the expectation is that we should take care of border protection and if it is a government priority, then we need more money.”

Although Meyer’s committee is independent of the military and tasked with reviewing it in terms of government priorities, he tends to slip into a parental “we” when speaking of the seemingly impossible demands being placed on the defence force. His committee’s draft document reads like an extended pitch for funding.

Still, his group well understands the political trouble a sudden and substantial increase in military spending would cause and seems to have learned from the work of the National Planning Commission. That body first published indicators—hard data with a touch of analysis that illustrated problems in an unarguable way. Once that was accepted, criticism of its subsequent hard-hitting recommendations was more difficult and critics found themselves called on to provide alternatives. The defence review could create the same type of baseline for the fully costed budget that will have to follow.

“I would like to see us build a consensus around the document as much as we can so that, when we put it to Parliament, we can say this is the view of South Africans,” said Meyer.

“I would hope we would be able to give this document to the minister [of defence] for her to put forward the argument, which I don’t think is any secret: the defence force is underfunded.”

In some respects, the argument for more money—and it will be an argument—will be easier than at any time in the past decade, the dragging bad karma of the arms deal notwithstanding. Better border protection also means preventing more smuggling of cigarettes and other goods that attract high levels of tax and are easily loaded on to a light aircraft, which should have a direct impact on taxes collected and thus be attractive to the more economically minded.

Combatting rhino poaching by way of the military tactics Chuter summarised, such as “scaring the shit” out of poachers through helicopter-landed special forces, touches on an issue particularly emotive for the middle class.

An improved peacekeeping capability would delight those with a pan-African bent. Commercial fishermen would approve of better patrolling of South Africa’s waters.

And, should the administration in charge in 2013 wish to reduce rather than magnify the perceived waste of money on the arms deal, a little bit of money could go a long way.

“For a relatively small amount of extra money, you can actually start making use of all this kit properly, in a way that would justify the initial expenditure and allow the defence force to carry out the missions it was bought for effectively,” said Chuter.

From defanged to refanged: How political change shaped the force
WHERE THINGS WENT WRONG
The disconnect between military requirements and military funding had its roots in the transition from apartheid, analysts said. It was a time when the overriding priority was to prevent a military coup, although there was a secondary nod to showing the rest of Southern Africa that South Africa would never again be a threat. That meant disempowering the military rather than supporting it and subsequent swift policy changes did not help.

“Mandela was trying to get the military out of the domestic environment. There was all this suspicion and doubt with white generals and black politicians, so the emphasis was on pulling them out of the domestic realm,” said Stellenbosch University’s Abel Esterhuyse. “Mbeki deployed the military into the foreign policy environment and made the key decision to disband the commando system, [leading to] the loss of that blanket domestic intelligence capability that we had across every small town in the country.

“Now, in the Zuma era, we are seeing that the police cannot cope with domestic challenges, so subtly the emphasis is starting to move towards a return to the domestic realm for the military. We do not want to be seen to be scaling down on our international commitments, but that is where it is going.”


Costly mission: The Gripen fighter jet. (Frans Dely)

In the middle of those shifts came the last formal defence review, conducted in 1998, which magnificently failed to predict anything like the actual future.

“There was a bit of a utopian view at the time, especially about Africa,” said Len le Roux, who was involved in that process. “The Cold War was over, apartheid was gone, so what could go wrong in Africa? The extent of South Africa’s commitment to peace missions was just not foreseen — and other stuff—I mean, who predicted the Arab Spring two years ago? Who predicted the way piracy would start up?”

But even as it became clear that South Africa would be a major participant in far-flung and complex missions for a long time to come, the requirement for more social spending and a big increase in public servant wages demanded reductions elsewhere. Then the global financial crisis struck state income.

DOMESTIC DEPLOYMENT
Deploying troops within South Africa’s borders in situations in which they could end up in conflict with civilians was long politically unpalatable. This, however, seems to be changing fast. The defence review makes no value judgment on domestic deployment, but coyly points out that the army requires urban warfare training anyway, which has value both in fighting insurgents north of Limpopo and in arresting violent service delivery protesters.

Effective border patrols would require a highly manoeuvrable component, such as motorbike squads, which likewise has a dual purpose. Non-lethal ammunition for the military is considered an important need, as is creating a faster process to authorise the deployment of defence units.

Analysts and military veterans also point out that the use of heavier weapons and explosives by crime syndicates requires an equal or greater response and that democracy may not be best served by militarising the police service to the point where it could handle such threats.

LABOUR ISSUES
The military has a labour problem. According to the defence review, it lacks a sufficient number of fighting soldiers while employing people variously described as uneconomical or ill-suited to their tasks. And it is costing too much. In the past financial year, 55% of the military budget went to personnel costs, whereas 40% is generally agreed to be a more acceptable level.

Outside analysts and former commanders, however, go much further. They said the application of general labour practices in the military meant an inability to discipline soldiers and prevented unsuitable recruits from being weeded out.

This, in a service such as the army that already has a clash of culture between the old defence force ways and the different norms brought in by the integration of forces from armed-struggle groups, has caused trouble. Add to the mix poorly conceived change to the formal discipline system and you have chaos.

“The current military discipline system [which entered into force in 1999] has not served its intended purpose and has conversely served to weaken military discipline and undermine the power of commanders,” said the defence review.

“The system has specifically disempowered commanders by removing summary discipline.”

After more than a decade under such a system and with the debate on unionisation within the defence force still unsettled, the results are starting to show and affect South Africa’s reputation.

“When you have troops on deployment in another country, they are representing you; they are flying your flag,” said one observer.

“When you have people misbehaving in shared United Nations camps and when you hear unflattering comparisons between South African officers and officers from other African countries, I wonder how much good we’re doing our strategy in Africa.”

THE MANY JOBS OF THE DEFENCE FORCE
On paper, the defence force has only one real objective: to seem scary enough to deter other countries or groups from looking for trouble and be ready enough to counter such trouble if it does develop. But as the review spells out in painstaking detail, it is being used in a wide range of other roles.

Peacekeeping operations
Troops have been deployed to a number of countries on the continent, where they have faced everything up to light artillery fire.

Border protection
After a hiatus of several years, the defence force was in 2010 ordered back to the borders. That is nearly 4 000km of coastline—excluding territorial waters—and a little less than 4 500km of land borders.

Piracy prevention
With pirates based in Somalia operating as far south as the Mozambique channel and with no other country on the east coast of Africa capable of patrolling waters far beyond its bases, the navy has by default become responsible for doing so.

Police support
Joint deployment has been few and far between, but the indications are that the army and air force will increasingly be called to battle gangs and help to quell service delivery protests.

Anti-poaching
Fighting rhino and abalone poaching requires skill and equipment found only in the military and its role in both is set to increase.

MARRYING DEVELOPMENT AND DEFENCE
The military has long resisted, with varying degrees of success, being seen as a potential creator of jobs, a developer of rural economies and, generally, a tool of the developmental agenda.


Among other non-core activities, the military is involved in anti-poaching and peacekeeping missions. (Gianluigi Guercia, AFP)

The defence review follows a similar line, pointing out that the military should “contribute to national development primarily by creating the security conditions necessary for development to take place”.

Land use and redistribution remains a particularly sticky issue. The military controls vast areas that often seem to be badly underutilised. But, the review says, some communication installations require quiet zones, some munition depots require safety zones and some types of training need wide open spaces.

The review concedes that although the defence force should not be structured around economic or social development, there are many things that can be done to help: identifying spare facilities in rural areas that communities can use for education, spreading bases more widely and making those bases procure more locally, opening base schools and hospitals to civilians and promoting local research, development and manufacture.


REVIEWING THE REVIEWERS
The defence review committee, which is due to deliver its final report in August, has at its political core a mixture of individuals with diverse experiences of the military and varying levels of political clout.

Chairperson Roelf Meyer was the minister of defence for a short period in late 1991 and early 1992, a time during which he apparently did not get along with hardline generals. He retired from politics in 2000, but still receives credit for his role as the chief government negotiator during the transition to democracy.

His deputy, Thandi Modise, received military training in Angola before being arrested as an Umkhonto we Sizwe operative. She is facing a possible revolt in North West, where she is premier.

Charles Nqakula became minister of defence after the toppling of Thabo Mbeki, apparently as a way to remove him from the safety and security portfolio, but did not survive the Zuma Cabinet reshuffle. And Tony Yengeni’s involvement in the arms deal indirectly resulted in him being jailed for a short time, but he remains a force within the ANC.—

You do know that a draft review is out. I have a coppie and it dose not paint naerly a bad light has claimed here.

Yes there are problems but they not crimpling problems. Yes we have a shortage of money but it still more than nigeria.

Maybe before you look at us you should look at your self. Nigerian peace keepers in sudan threanted muntny unless they got flown back home and recvied unpayed allowances.

There are people in south africa who post sensatniol news on the SANDF but non have actualy seen the bases. They mention sources but can give no names and say out right lies.

So next time do your own reshearch.

agaugust: .
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the post on Ethiopia vs South Africa in military war has proved that south africans just need to s.hut up their mouths finally.
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I found the post full on inaccruses.

Firsty are they the best fighter pilots in africa. SA was able to get some impresve air to air kills in Angola useing out classed jets. And SU 24 is a attack aircraft or strike aircraft to be presise. And has was shown the Gripen can handek the SU27.

3000 AGMs missiels? Where you get that number from.

What guns are those. Nothing out ranges the G6 and G5.

We have solders deployed in the DRC, CAR, anti piracy and Sudan not to mention burindie, Angola, lestho. Many of whome came under fire. Just because our news dose not report out fights dose not mean they never happned. We deploy more solders per capter than even nigeria.

Ethyopia is at a defacto war and has a number of hostil nations and elments suronding it so has a need for a larg milltary. SA is at peace and in the most stabel region in Africa we spend less than 2% on deffense. If a threay was present we would increase our strengh. Out budget and potsiol budget in a time of need far supases in african country excluding egpty.

all4naija: That South African blacks are not organized and the country has the world worst inequality while being the most developed country in Africa.

Really. They very well orgonised.

Yet we have less people per capter in pvety than nigeria.

all4naija: Image showing South African man being dragged to his death while chained to a van in South Africa. Jeez! That country police is the worst in the whole wide world to me!

He not a south african. And all the cop there where suspended pending there court case and there station comander was all so suspended. They will serve there time in jail where they will have fun has only cops in jail can.

agaugust: explain to him how to use janes's defence, people complain it has too little information on all the weapons of every country in the world, jane's is not like the detail you find on wikipedia

You must actualy regster at janes. Best not to use it. There is all so global secruuity

agaugust: andrewza you are free to stick to what ever you wish to believe. its not my job to add to your knowledge, you dont pay me one dollar for my time, do you ?


you say american weapons are a joke? i wont let you waste my time.

Read the role of the LCS

Some are. Like the styker a complet POS, the F35 witch though may end up being a good air craft is taking so long to delvope it may be out dated by the time it is released. The M1 witch can only idel for 8 hours and has pathtic range, the F22 that has a faulty oxgen sytem. The humve a big car that has know protection the growler that all so a POS. Should I go on because I can.

agaugust: army website : www.armyrecognition.com

just type the website name and add slash the name of the country you want their army information, e.g.

www.armyrecognition.com/cameroon

also, you can google wikipedia of any countries armed forces.

e.g google search cameroonian air foce wikipedia, egyptian navy wikipedia, ugandan army wikipedia.

Or go to janes deffense

agaugust: you were too lazy to open the weblink and read the details of missiles carried by the USS INDEPENDENCE. up to 45 missiles on that warship, not open to be seen outside, internal weapons bay of a real modern stealth warship. its too advanced for you to understand, its far more sophisticated than the south african valour ship you know, the hull design is the first of its kind in the whole world, too much for you.

i also noticed that you have an old fashioned rigid and stone fixed and military idea of looking for weapons on platforms from the outside, sorry sir, you are out-dated already, most new war platforms now have weapons in internal bay or removable and re-fixable depending on need. you have a big problem of not understanding very modern and complex military equipment.

the world of science has created new types of weapons beyond your out-dated old imagination my dear brother.

USS INDEPENDENCE is a multi-role warship that can be configured quickly every hour for different roles with special mission modules carried in the internal bay. the weapons will be changed in a short time for different types of sea combat engagements. it functions as littoral combat ship, corvette, frigate, anti-mine or anti-submarine. that is a multi-role warship that you dont understand because south africa does not have that type and your european NATO countries all have not reached that advanced level of america yet.

i have helped your laziness a bit with this quote from wikipedia and the source weblink below you can confirm.

The concept behind the littoral combat ship, as described by former Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England, is to "create a small, fast, maneuverable and relatively inexpensive member of the DD(X) family of ships." The ship is easy to reconfigure for different roles, including anti-submarine warfare, mine countermeasures, anti-surface warfare, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, homeland defense, maritime intercept, special operations, and logistics. Due to its modular design, the LCS will be able to replace slower, more specialized ships such as minesweepers and larger assault ships.

source weblink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littoral_combat_ship

you are still my friend, i am not trying to insult you sir, no. i will not do that. dont be lazy to read weblinks details to avoid you posting wrong comments.

dont be lazy read before you post and stop annoying me...and accept defeat when you are wrong !!

america is is the most advanced weapons producer in the world and we do many wonderful things with our weapons, we create them and we re-configure them anyhow we wish at any time any day depending on what we want to do with that weapon for that moment of the day, dont get stuck with a south african mindset of what can be done to a weapon, america is too far sophisticated for you to understand.

Don't assume I don't know what it has. The valour has 32 VL cells of witch 16 are armend with sams and 16 are empty. There is a plan to laod them with diffrent missils either a long rang SAM or ground attack crusdie missiel.

The missiels on the LCS are either ground attack navel version of NLOS sytem or point deffense Rolling over air frame point deffesnse missiel. Those diffrent versions are only planded and would mean it could only specolise. And the Anti surface rolle is built to kill swarms of small shipps(like the nigerian navy) not war ships. I have spoken to Amrican salors who have served on many ships. The LCS is very good at it roll and it roll is not to kill other war ships.

If you want argue ships try it with the uniformend. I have phiscly been on more ships from more countries than you can remember. The best frigat I have seen where german the dutch are all so good with there supped up radar sytem.

Please many amrican wepaons are a joke compared to what the rest of the world has to offer.

agaugust: msauza your comment above shows how F00LISH the average south african man's brain can be.

america CANNOT suffer one single casualty from south africa, we just sit down in washington and launch 100 nuclear long range ballistic missile to 100 cities in south africa and roast it like chicken barbecue, then there will be no more country named south africa on the map of the world, we wipe it out completely in 5 minutes of nuclear warhead ICBM missile detonation.

see two nuclear weapons photos below and kiss your wife goodbye for the last time, america has dug a big grave to bury south africa.

the mentally d.iminished south africans are now saying they will defeat not only nigeria, but also that south african military will defeat american military. i am just getting to know that we have mentally d.eformed south africans on this forum. what a shame to their nation !

And you faild to understand what I said. I said the valour is better than the nearest amrican equvelnt to witch you repond with proto typs that are unarmend and LCS a cotal ship with only a few point deffense wepaons and guns set up for NGS. It ois not set up for warfare vs a war ship.

sheyie2007: a thousand of nigerian soldiers with that so called wooden butt ak47 will bring SA to a stand still ..

SAPS could handel them.

Capnd143: Guys Nigeria and india sign an air defense co-operation agreement yesterday, and the india defense minister said that Nigeria should name any area which it wanted assistance/colobration in and india will gladly coperatd . . . 4rm info gathered it seems the are interested in development of SAM's and this one below precisely . , https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/67/Akash_SAM_on_T-72.jpg/800px-Akash_SAM_on_T-72.jpg no military journal has been able to give the exact number of blowpipe SAM's we have, some say 40 some say 48, most of them are using 1980-2001 figures, thats y we are being degraded! Even this SAM below is yet to be counted! https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/africa/nigeria/logo/logo_missile_vehicle_nigeria.jpg . Yet the journals claim wrong values.

It a good sam but not in sevises yet and will replace the roland.

Sa plans on getting the land based umkonto for phase 2 of the GBADS. Phase one is now complet.

The blow pipe is out dated these days.

CAMEROONPRIDE: Lol amazing thread.
SA can't and will never be able to beat Naija in any war fronts.
SA seems to have better equipment but Naija has more experience and is def more though also numbers play a lot in a front despite what you guys are saying a small army will have too much difficulty to defeat a big one. Also NAIJA has a lot of money to buy New equipment or update his equipement when they need so.
To conclude I think Naija has better and more powerful allies. This is if we remove any Western influence.

I am still wiating for your post?

agaugust:
i left nigeria same way dr.mrs okonjo-iweala left nigeria to america to become world bank vice president and she returned to nigeria to become our finance minister. there are many chinese here in america who left china, came to america, learned great things and returned to china to build a greater china that now has an economy better than america where i live.

america is now afraid of china's rising power in the world. chinese immigrants in america played a major role in high level modern technology transfer to china.

nigerians are very smart, we will tap and drink knowledge from the white man, then we export it back to nigeria. at least you can view all my posts on nairaland, to see what i have learned about military science in my office here in america, this forum thread/topic was dead on page 12 in december last year, and only 12 pages in 2 years, until i came in and now on page 78 within 3 months...and with great support and contributions from my naija brothers, thank you my fellow nigerians, una dey do welu welu, i gbadun una vibes and waves...keep s.hooting sirs !

you see what wisdom is ? msauza you can remain seated in south africa and you never improve your tiny brain as you remain locked up in johannesburg.

i humbly say this, i dont need to swear but God is my witness, in year 2000, i wrote a detailed proposal to the nigerian defence minister about the need for nigerian navy special forces. then today we have the great nigerian SBS, see their photo below....i got the idea from US NAVY SEALS here in america and i convinced nigeria to build a similiar force....and the nigerian special forces trained under our american US NAVY SEALS special forces.

i never wanted to say in public this thing i did to build nigerian navy special forces, but msauza you forced me to talk today. it was my idea and i persuaded ex-president obasanjo government through my contacts in defence ministry to buy the idea, and the navy chief of staff was happy with the proposal, he did a good job with it.

thats a photo below of nigerian navy special forces with one of our US NAVY SEALS special forces combat training officer

i am a humble nigerian and all i learn here in america is being transferred back to build nigeria my beloved country.

Amrican and many other SF units have been in SA. It not reported in reguler media and the traing is secrit but it dose hapen. The defrence is that they don't come to SA to train us but to train with us and in some cases learn from us.

So the fact US SF train your solders dose not impres me. Remember US SF trained the solders of Malil. How good did they do.

My unit SAS tibie actualy took part in one of the exersice with the forghine(US included) and our local SF units. I will not give details.

Capnd143: @nigeria= sa in 1960 really? Even if the above illogical equation were to be right then Nigeria would stil have to be the greatest then!
Lets take a simple life scenario . . . . SA and Nigeria are given $15 billion each as aid or maybe their revenue. SA would find it easy to carter for themselve with this amount e.g lets say feeding the country with its whooping 50 million population and some catch left to finance other sectors e.g defense! Now would Nigeria find it easy too? No . . . Nigeria's population is basically almost 4 times that of south africa, that means if SA used $10b for feeding with a $5b remnant, Nigeria would use nothing far from $40billion for feeding at same standard market situation leading to budget deficit of over $25billion and nothing left to finance other sectors e.g military, bt yet still Nigeria is economically transparent enough to go in par with SA Defying the great and enormous advantages you have! SA ecomomy is a little higher than Nigeria's all things being equal SA should have been 4 x 50 years ahead of us given that SA has more revenue to carter for a less populace while Nigeria has less revenue to carter for more populace . . . . . .bt no we are in the same boat!!! Thanks bro! I kinda start liking you, because of how you think . . . .No harm meant

That makes no sense. With a larger population you have a higher tax base. Nigeria should have far out striped SA long a go. Yet SA remains on top. And will remain there for years to come.

agaugust: snydergp i dont have time for your s.tupid comments, stop challenging american military like a big F00L you this careless south africans

even ordinary east african nation of Ethiopia you south african military cannot defeat in war.

you want to see US NAVY STEALTH FRIGATE, here is the photo and you can google it...and stop wasting my time, people are reading your posts and laughing at the s.tupid claims and lies you south african write here.

please stop challenging me about american weapons, that is the work we deal with in my office here in the USA, y.ou this zulu bush meat, out-dated in johannesburg

The lCS are not frigats and are more over sized over pricesd Gun boats. And no point has USN called them frigats because they not. It a LCS and in a straight on fight will losse to any stealth frigat or even corvet such has the great visby.

agaugust: i had to post those US NAVY WARSHIPS because andrewza over-rated south africa beyond my imagination by saying your pangolo puff puff valour stealth warships is better than our american stealth warship, so i helped you to see the coming o.bituary of south african navy heading to the g.raveyard in a nice coffin/casket . lol

What stealth warship dose amrica have in the valour class. And by the way the valour class are one of the most advance frigates currently in the world. And though not has stealth has those proto types they actualy war ships not sicentifc test beds.

agaugust: AMERICAN NAVY WILL WIPE OUT SOUTH AFRICAN NAVY IN 5 MINUTES, when you see our own american stealth warships you will put your own south african stealth warships inside the dustbin garbage thrash dump. you this over-rated south african military that believes they can defeat every other country because they produce some backwark cheap weapons. come to america, let me show you what is called a modern weapon, you local champions of zulu bush region.

Unarmend proto type

agaugust: US NAVY STEALTH WARSHIPS below, not the rubbish type of south african valour frigate they are baosting about like a local african regional champion to fight zimbabwe and other weak nations. this photo is our new american warship, its not a house, just in case you have never seen anything like that before in your south african life.

american navy will roast the whole south african navy in 5 minutes like chicken barbecue

Unarmend proto type.

agaugust: andrewza, i dont want to insult you because like you said, you are trying to be nice by not insulting nigeria like snydergp and msauza does. well i dont need you to be nice, i need you to be honest and serious. see what you posted above, it sounds c.razy to me, i am a nigerian and also an american citizen, i also work in an american private owned military consultancy firm, and you post that kind of comment for nigerians to read ?

south african military is an over-rated local champion of the zulu bush region of southern africa where you are number one in your local region
ethiopia is number one military in east africa. nigeria is number one military in west africa. egypt is number one military in the whole of africa from cape town to cairo.

never again do i want to hear you south africans compare your pop corn and bubble gum military to my own american military forces, the USA navy will sink all your valour ships with your second class stealth paint and design in 5 minutes of battle. we americans are 100 years ahead of south africa in weapons.

look at the type of stealth ships we americans have in the USA navy before you over-rate south african local champion navy and you waste the whole of your military under the fire-power of the great america...photos for you...US NAVY warships far ahead of south african navy dreams and dry bank account...

Non of those are at the same level of the valour class. First they all proto types. Second non of them are frigats or even a true war ship, third the valour class have far more abliets, fourth the valour is not based on stealth, the stealth is just one of it main selling points.

agaugust: south africans can you please stop stealing other nations copyrights and patents of products ? all because you want to over-rate your country and try to look stronger than you really are.

cheetah jet is NOT south african product, it is 100% French made Mirage III Jets Fighters fully built and sold to south africa by Dassault company of France, only addition was you upgraded and changed the name. Fraudulent claims.

Impala jet is NOT south african product, it is 100% Italian made Macchi MB-326 Jets fully built and sold to south africa by Aermacchi company of Italy, you simply upgraded it and changes the name. Another fraudulent claim.

The Oryx helicopter is NOT south african product, it is 100% French made Aérospatiale Puma Helicopter which was sold to you by Aérospatiale company of france , you only converted it by modifying and changing the name. Fraud again.

south africa does not produce any aircraft jet fighter aircraft, so stop telling us lies here, nigeria does not make jet engines and south africa too does not produce it.

sheyie2007, this south african boys wanna s.cam you 4.19

i googled all your claims andrewza, they are false, you should not have posted lies like that to damage your credibility, you know i work in an american defence company and i will research all your claims if i have the time to do it.

better luck next time my brother andrewza.

The cheata are very heavly modified mirrage fighters. Ant no point did I say they where not. They had nothing in comprision with the older mirrage. If not why did a certain south amrican country(name escapes me) buy cheate Cs to replace there old mirrage

The impale where licsent copies. Aka we payed them for the right to build them. Same has the hawke's that replaced them.

The oryxe are again a heavly moddified version and far out perorm even the supper puma


At no point did I say we invented a jet air craft only that we built them. Big diffrence. So I was not incorrect. All the aircraft mentioned where far superio to the aircraft they where based on.

Capnd143: Funny enough this the first time i have heard of Ford SA,mercs SA When ford and merc in nt SA owned company, its just like establishing a branch of a company . . . .now this is what i mean by nigerian made
[img]http://2.bp..com/-hWVhETR61i4/T7PqdxpMCHI/AAAAAAAAFak/WjLyMR6js1M/s1600/car.jpg[/img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8251/8513975360_d4c530b8a5_c.jpghttps://www.innosongroup.com/innosonmotors/mid-thb/mini-bus2.jpghttps://www.innosongroup.com/innosonmotors/mid-thb/bus2.jpghttps://www.innosongroup.com/innosonmotors/mid-thb/suv.jpg

And the cars we make get sold over seas. Do yours.

Tolexander: Imagine what these people are saying. Just like saying Justin Gatlin will overtake Usain Bolt when the former is not serious with the sprint and the latter seriously stretching all his muscles to be the first.
Little do they know that the higher corruption mentioned is enough to maintain the gap between nigeria and south africa and even widen it. South Africa is not as corrupt as nigeria, besides, they make sure they diversify their production unlike Nigeria that depend solely on crude oil not even the refined oil.

Not to mention a larg population to tax helps.

sheyie2007: Even a lay man knows your ranking above nigeria is owning to your weaponry..thanks to denel

And better training.

sheyie2007: I'm not disputing the fact that a german automobile company and the likes established car manufacturing plants in SA... show me a south african brand... i didnt post toyota innoson lol

I did. Ford SA. Ford SA is owend by a south african and builds cars in south africa and then sells them over sees.

sheyie2007: The Ford Bantam is a coupé utility ("bakkie", "pickup", or "ute" sold by the Ford Motor Company in South Africa.

Read the rest. Like where it was devolped and built.

And yes. We build car engines.

http://m.motoring.co.za/article/view/e/1.1439064

solomon111: my comment still stand.
Nigeria only needs partnership to build whatever she wants,no matter how sophisticated.
Just the way we built our world class satellite.

You mean the satellites builr in england. Unlike SA where we builded them localy. And why do you need partneship. Can you not do it your self?

http://touch.ford.co.za/


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Bantam


Has I said ford SA