₦airaland Forum

Goel:
I'm a far more experienced defense enthusiast than yeah. And asking me to just judge you and believe you won't make you win arguments.

Pakistanis themselves are more intelligent than you. And that's why they are running from one platform to other for escaping.

As I said first hand experience. I know no navy has ever found one of our subs in war games. But just tge general feel I get about them has me think they would not find a Pakistan Submarine if one got to sea.





Unrelated, Pakistan subs where meant to be south african

Goel:
India has been involved in war games with lot lot of countries in past few years in case yeah don't know.

Of what?

I just don't get you. Pakistani subs aren't stealthy either.
Nor their coastline is very long or range of their weapons is that high to operate in middle of main sea.

What is the logic involved for not stopping them before its late? Second, China has nothing to do with it.

The logic is going to work only if Pakistan behaves like a suicide bomber who is ready to give damage to enemy in case wipes out.

At the first place, a carrier doesn't sale alone. It has a group of ships protecting it. The question isn't that if Pakistan needs destroy carrier. It is can it and how can it reach carrier to destroy it?

Let just say my opinions are based on first hand experience

Goel:
May be, it depends upon the kind of equipment India was using at that particular time and the tactics SA sailors were using.
India has an extensive set of ASW tools including helicopters, destroyers, frigates & giant corvettes.

In past 4-5 years India has and in next 4-5 years India will, commissioned and will commission some of most advanced stealth warships. We have been making submarines literally called "stealth".

By the way, I was more about capabilities of Pakistan & Pakistan isn't a big threat for sure.

Fancy gear does not mean much if you don't have the experience. Other than the ASW helcopters something that the Pakistan Airforce could help mitigate by putting on pressure I don't see India stopping a submarine before it is to late. Sorry the Indian navy does not inspire me or fill me with convediance in the idea of blockading Pakistan
More so since Pakistan is closely allied to China.


3 subs even if old are deadly. They only need to luck on one carrier to really embrace India. As I said

Goel:
What the are details of South African Anti Submarine Warfare capabilities?

I was more on how India has never found a SA sub in wargames.


But to anserw your question sa anti sub is focused around our 3 subs. Our frigates do have anti subcablities and we did tets there torpedoes. But using a surface ship to hunt a sub is not a good idea.

Odunayaw:
Bro, quality stuff from the above mentioned place wouldn't cost higher than $60 either. I have had a camp bag custom made from that place and its a decade old now without a single tear considering how rough I can be- it cost equivalent of $17 in today's naira and about $30+ in then's naira

No matter the standards of the Army from a local firm /business/shop it shouldn't stray far away from $60

Still at 200 000 men the army and the need for more than at a 1 to 1 number but not ever one needing I would say 150 000 webbing are needed so around 9 million USD to get enough for ever combat unit and training unit. But really you would need double that so 18 million USD. Not a lot but more than what you can spend with out a lot of paper work.

GeneralFarouq:
Wow...it expensive
But I trust aba tailors.. u haven't heard about them right...what they will make may not be up to good quality but sure it will do some good work.

I mean sure poor quality stuff would be cheap. But if you want some thing that can last all most 40 years now it going to cost a bit. Econmy of scale I could see it costing say 100usd per webbing for could stuff maybe 75usd if you go a bit cheaper. With say 80 000 vests at 75 USD a pop that's 6 million USD and that still won't cover the entire Nigerian army

GeneralFarouq:
U would also notice that they lack webbing... I think the NA needs to make webbing available for this soldiers like the AFSF.. I mean how much does this webbing cost sef?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SADF-South-African-Defense-Force-Pattern-83-Chest-Webbing-Nutria-Brown-Bush-War-/302925811838



More than you realize.

Goel:
India has far bigger number of submarines and anti submarine warfare equipments. Besides 3 Ahista class submarines of PN, Pakistani submarine fleet is ancient. I would be far more scared from Iran rather than Pakistan.
I don't say that Indian Navy won't have any damage. But it will win by a very very large margin. India is trying similar efforts with aerospace technology too.

Hope next decade brings similar rise of Indian Air Power.

Being fair for Navy, put the Indian Navy on one side & rest all other Navies on or around Indian Ocean at other side and compare. India still would have advantage.

They have yet to find one of our subs in a wargame in South Africa. I think a lone Pakistan submarine could be a real threat

Pakistan released the Indian pilot because what else where they going to do. There is now war so he is not a POW and he is a severing member of his armered forces his acts where not a criminal act. So if pakstan kept him they would of viloted several internastional laws and could of suffered trade embargoes. This is why even Iran let's the US sailors who got lost go. Brazil released the RAF pilots that made a emergency landing (even have the Jet back) and China released the crew in a spy plane that was spying on them go.


Hell most littraly spies are released if captured (traitors not but spies yes)


So the fact the guy was let go is not shocking. He was probably captured, checked out in hospital then interviewed/Intergated and then let go.


Hell Angola let a south African sepeciol forces operator operating in angola in civilian cloths go. In fact he was all most executed until the realized he was SA spec ops and not a merc.


Countries by and large are not the type to keep hostages.

Goel:
India isn't Israel either. Only outside powers like US, EU, Russia & China can challenge India. All countries together in this region and nearby regions can't stand against India alone.

Haven seen the Indian navy and knowing Pakistan operates subs a blockade could work but it would be costly. I don't rate the Indian navy that high

kikuyu1:
]
I've done this before when it happened but you can always tell false flags by the those involved:case in point ,the Westgate owned by Larry Silverstein of 911 infamy own partner,Frank Lowy. And no,its not 'net! My neighbour,ex City planner personally met him before construction.


https://thebridgelifeinthemix.info/australia/frank-lowy/

Because the false flag tactic succeeds Zionists haven't changed the MO after all this time! There's Frank with other Chosenites responsible for 911!



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2964431/Terror-group-al-Shabaab-calls-Westgate-style-attacks-Westfield-shopping-centres-chilling-new-threat-militants-bloody-Kenya-siege.html


https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Frank_Lowy
As far back as the 1980 Norfolk bombing the same guys are more often than not involved.

O this crappy conspiracy that ignores the fact Mossad had been warning the USA for some time about the attack and even that it would use aircraft.


Or that I can't trust any source that refers to a Australian jew as a zionost just because he is rich. O no jews control the banks because they where given control of banks in the midile ages.



But I can't change your mind since people that bielve in conspiracy theories are fucking idiots.

kikuyu1:
Son,I live in the real world and I can't, won't argue! Check some facts yourself-who was the owner of the Westgate?

You can't make a crazy claim and then say go check the facts. You made the claim, you post the facts to back it up

ugo4u:
All these military baff up we see some of these soldiers from African countries display yearly during flintlock, why ain't we seeing them on those kits when they return to duty in their various countries. Abi na only me don notice this kind trend?

You not meant to see sepeciol forces.

ugo4u:
I don't think they even need an invasion or nukes to make a statement, they've just got to position there Destroyers in strategic position in the Mediterranean sea type in the corodinates of Tehran and haul barrage of ICMBs (MOABs/Tomahawk) at that them that will overwhelm their counter measures.
One major advantage US have over Russia and other super powers is (Strength in stockpiles).

They done this before. Iran does not care about losses. Every person America kills is a propergande victory for Iran. Rember you talk about a country that walked thousands of men in to Iraq machin guns armed with nothing in a goal to have the Iraq gunners run out of ammo.


All so Air power and cruise missiles won't defeat a country. We have learned this fact since ww2

ugo4u:
Do you know that the USS Pensylvania(Ohio class submarine) can carry 24 Trident missle at a go.
1 trident missile is more destructive than all the bombs detonated in WW1 and WW2 combined.
Quite scary, the US by far is a Super power nation. I just can't get it why nations like Iran have so much confidence in destroying American in an open warfare. To say the least, I believe this is pure madness, even the Chinese won't survive an all out onslaught by the US armed forces. As far as I'm concerned only Russia can stand toe to toe with America the rest even Europe combined can't stand the firepower of USA.

No one has used a nuke since ww2 and America won't nuke Iran. That is economic and political sucide. Iran does not need to destroy America they know they can't they just need to ensure that any American invasion is so costly that America or who ever won't attack.

jln115:
Regardless if you have a degree or not you'll still need to apply and complete the Military Skills Development System MSDS. After which you are either given a permanent contract to join the regular force or subsequently you join the reserve force.

Having a degree(depends on degree!) however gives you a much better chance of landing a regular force contract(from what i heard) and being chosen to complete officers courses ect ect.

P.S regardless of qualification......if you join the SANDF you'll start off as a private, you can't instantly obtain a certain rank just because of your qualification.....There are however ceremonial ranks given to certain civilians from time to time however.

I know this is a old subject but people can join the SANDF with a rank. How it works is that you will do basic training after basic training you will then do the needed training for said rank. Example say you joined the SANDF as a lawyer. Do basics, do officers courses then get your rank. So yes a doctor can join the miltray with a rank, second if you join with say doctors degree you will be fast tracked. I know some one who joined with a degree in wildlife convastion and was fast tracked


All in all in my basics of around 600 I had one lieutenant, one petty officer (Sergeant) one leading seaman (copral) who was joining in and getting g promoted to petty officer and one person who got fast tracked to lieutenant commander.


Thing is while on basics you are no rank.you are troop, recruit, extra. So there could of been other.

jln115:
Unfortunately going to have to decline your offer, I have cricket matches on the 16th and 17th and as much as I would love to go to the events in the week, I still live 3,5 hours from Cape Town.

@andrewza by default will be the official photographer!!

I was actually on holiday for the entire event only got back now.

Henry240:
I won't do that. No offence intended.

When South-African sources pick content from Nigerian defence topics, i don't see them crediting their source(s).

I actually agree with Henry. Both photos came from a official news site. Do you credit every photo you get from say SABC or CNN or the SANDF them self.

Not like he removed watermarks

foxtrot101:
was it what the movie "Siege at jadotville" trying to depict?

Yeah the movie is based on the battle.

Henry240:
Operation Morthor: Four of the 23
@UN
Irish soldiers captured by Katangan gendarmes during the fighting in Elisabethville
#Congo
on 15 September 1961

You should look in to that battle. Think it is the only time that UN forces fought rebels who had air superiority.

patches689:
I have always wondered why they dont expand the MRS's duties to include base protection/security. You could scale it up and have guys doing their MSDS then qualify for the unit (2 years of base security/protection and then do the fancy stuff when they complete MSDS).

If you are going to have a bunch of guys who specialize in squad tactics and weapons handling, you may as well get them to do security as well.

There is literally a unit that does that. Protection force. And Mrs all so do base protection when need be.

frumentius:
Andrewza, rumour going round here that MRS will be deployed here. MRS higher brass were here recently, to "figure out logs", apparently.

Seeing they're such a small unit, with their anti-piracy duties where would they find the people? That said, if true, can only be a good thing. The lakes patrol duty to counter weapons smuggling -currently assigned to the Uruguayans - needs more resources and assets.

Spoke to a mate who was here as part of their brass' protection detail who mentioned their short-term goal is training up to the level of the Pathfinders and building up to a battalion in the mid term.

PICS: MRS in DRC, showcasing the specialist skills these Marines are now acquiring and hope to standardise: missing the FAC and HALO/HAHO badges on the 1 guy who didn't want to be photographed.

Mrs is basically 4 units. 2 are not relevant since one is divers and the other maintain certain and logical guys. 2 are operators. One is a Boat unit that use small boats the other is a stand by QRF team. Both can do each others jobs.


So a ship on anti piracy only takes 20 odd guys. That not even all of the boat team personal. Never mind the QRF guys. MRS has the personal.


Other thing to look at is they could just deploy as a straight light infantry company. Every operator is at least air assault qualified and they do the same 9 months infantry training the army does.


Of course we spent money on two types of river boats built to be sure lifted. So it makes more sense they do lake duties. But that would require a larger investment by both us and the UN since we now instead of sending 100 plus infantry we have a 100 plus Infantry, some boats, trailers, trucks, spare parts, mechanics. Resources are here but it needs the capital to move it. At least the c130 can carry our boats the MRS use and any samil can tow them

61mech:
Those camo's were tested by some platoons when I was still in the SADF. I was told that the IR suppression was a function of the material they used. The troops testing it were quite excited , because we were told that they would outlaw the ironing of the uniforms as it degraded the IR suppression of the material. We were also told that it was specifically designed to counter the IR system of the MI-24 gunship.
(They might have just used one to test it.)

Keep in mind that a lot of this could have been made up. The Army had a lot of BS rumors flying around at the time.
Any SANDF guys out there know if the Ironing thing is real ?

As for the old Nutria (kak-brown) uniforms. They were ,counter to popular belief, actually very effective. Especially if you included local foliage and had proper training in cammo. A good technique was to lay prone in the shadow of a tree or bush. You'd be very surprised to see how difficult it is to spot a guy in browns lying in a dark shadow. Even up close.

Here's a good vid made by a USMC trainer on the SADF nutria's effectiveness. He also has some great training vids for all you active duty guys.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCtVoP6Jdpg

Ironing is true. I have not tested the thermal protection of the uniform but I know it is protected against certian chemicals and it is fire retardant. Similar to the uniform we use in the navy. All so IR educing uniforms is not rare. Most western armies do it. It does not remove the thermal signature just reduces it. Means goes from 5km to say 2km at what it sees you. All so highly dependent on the environment.

61mech:
I know they have flotation equipment added etc, but were they marinized ?
Naval aircraft are specifically built from the ground up with their sub-systems protected from corrosion. For instance ,you can use a regular Apache or Blackhawk on ships, but not for continuous naval ops. like you can with a Cobra of a Seahawk. These helis are designed from the ground up with special anti corrosion coatings on sensitive engine and electronic parts for long terms use at sea. The production run for the Oryx were so small, I doubt they developed specialised marine models.( I might be completely wrong )

Atlas proposed a version of the Rooivalk that would have been "marinized" and its entirely possible that they designed all the Oryx's to this standard. They were planning to use the Oryx on the SA built frigates after all. It was the only Helicopter they had access to under sanctions.

i think the Artistic trips one where

bidexiii:
Another problem we have is the top military chiefs & brass wouldn't come out and tell Mr president the reality on ground, cos they might stand the risk of loosing there jobs.

The NA which is the main arm of the military confronting BHT is not been equipped unlike the NN and NAF who are getting new hardwares everyday.

Flashy jets and big ceremonies to commission ships look better than new body armor, increased training, more vechiels.

Henry240:
When was the F-22 built?

Better, faster computers are available today for the F-35 than during the time the F-22 was built.

"I mean look at the data fusion of the F-35?".

nice thing about computers is that you can fit them on any thing. And newier is not all ways better. The F22 is far more stealthy, with a ultra secure coms system. In fact the big issue with the F22 is that it so advanced it can't Comuncate with other jets in the USAF. A bother example of this is the T64 VS T72. People assume the T72 being newer is the better tank buy the early 64s where actually the more advanced tank. The T72 was a dummed down cheaper system.

The F35 is cheaper less good F22 with a few more added systems. But in a one on one fight equal pilots no in serves aircraft can match the F22.

giles14:
even the X-32 was very potent.

just keep on wondering why the USAF keep on going for less potent craft. eg YF-23 ,X-32 etc
what's Lockheed's Martin's secret

so they can buy enough of them to actually matter

giles14:
f35 for now ,but in 5-10 yrs we will have the Su-57SM and X-3

su57 is order is way to small to matter

Henry240:
Irrespective of what detractors would say, fact remains the F-35 is the world's most advanced fighter jet.

mm F22 wants a word with you hell the real one to look at is the yf23 it was so advance that even america could not afford to buy it in enough numbers

Xbee007:
Were they recently purchased?

Couple of years ago. Delivery all ways takes time, along with training, extra extra.

bidexiii:
Yeah a civilised enemy !

Not a terrorist group like BHT, the pilot head will be chopped off.

Key point is that part. Look at what happened to the Russian pilots in Syria