₦airaland Forum

kikuyu1:
Imo, this shows the need for a working APS in Western armour.

Actually the west do have protection systems with soft kill systems. West tanks all so have thicker armour than Russian and Chinese tanks. Russian tanks are smaller, more cramped and lighter and have far less space for armour than western 60 plus ton tanks. But Russian tanks being the light weight tanks they are tend to do better in 3rd world areas. There are plenty of bridges that would fail with a 60 plus ton tank on it but the 40 or 50 ton Russian could make it across. Western tanks are all so very complicated and need highly trained crew and support staffs. Russian T90 is a simply beast that a poorly trained conscript could use.



This is why the debate of what tank is better is stupid it all about what you want to do with it. If tanks are meant to be a fire support tool against poorly armed rebels your T72 or even a new modified T55 is a great choice even a Walker bulldog or T34 could do the job if the rebels are poorly armed enough but a light weight armed car would be better. Now if you want tanks to fight other tanks in a pitch battle you need a big 65 ton plus monster.



Just to put this out there. The tank losses in Syria have nothing to do with the tank and every thing to do with the crew and the infantry and the officers in charge. Tanks fighting in cities with out a infantry screen to escort it will lead to there deaths.

tdayof:
Thanks for the explanation. What are other necessary needs for the military that can fit into the budget?

while if you creating these new divisions there is a fare bit I mean some of it is not even military gear. HQs will need computers for example, you will need work shops to maintain vehicles there is a lot of things your new divisions will need that is not front line.

tdayof:
Much more than NAF. what's the army buying sef? MRAP,TANKS?

That looks like a large amount but it not enough for full tank force. Most would be spent on basic gear and better logidtical equipment and not on tanks. So you will see more MRAPS, Trucks, body armour, tents, radios, extra.

bidexiii:
US nukes n turkey.......

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/us-moves-nuclear-weapons-from-turkey-to-romania/

they are moving them out but it hard to relocate 50 nukes.

bidexiii:
Hmmmmm......

I see turkey changing positions......

Sooner or later the turkey will not allow the United States to make use of its air & ground space, there relationship with the United States is going sour especially over the US disagreement to release the mastermind of the coup.

That might cause issues since there are US nukes in Turkey

Patchesagain:
Lol that's the same source I was basing MY argument on

To my mind surplus just means standard ammo, perhapse not the correct use of the word, but you know what I mean. Fact remains, you will have to buy specialised ammo and neither RSA or big has the budget to do so (apart from SF)

I know a DMR is not a sniper rifle, it's a marksman's rifle. But 600m is still a tough shot for a semi auto and the FAL simply doesn't get the MOA unless it's a brand new build. Sure, If you are bench shooting it's no problem... But out in the field? No Bueno!

I didn't know about the M27... Thats just retarded... Marines: first in, last to think

Yes and it stats tge EBR is made from surples M14s

But thats not surples ammo. Normally ammo is just ammo, surplus ammo is old ammo. And there is zero need for high end ammo for shooting out to 500 or 600 metters. If you want to shoot longer range use a proper sniper rifle. You dont need fance ammo for the DMR it should infact use the same ammo as every one else.


It has been done and 600m is all so the extrem most of the time it is with in 300m.

Patchesagain:
Yes, the EBR is a new build - basically any source will tell you this (hence the EBR designation, the surplus ones have another designation that I can't remember).

They are also using M118 "special-ball" not M80 ball (surplus) as ammunition.

As for surplus, the problem is that we (and Nigeria) will not be buying tailor made ammunition, we will be using surplus stocks. The idea is that you use a rifle that is accurate enough that you can burn surplus and still get a decent MOA.

Yeah, EBR is designed for ~600m. M.O.A of 3 is a huge adjustment for 600m hence the problem with the FAL. At 600m you are dealing with an MOA of <6 on the EBR, at the same distance you are dealing with an MOA of 18 to 36 on the FAL


Pretty sure the USMC uses the m249 for SAW. Interestingly lack of supression was the major flaw with the BREN as well... Too accurate for its own good.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=377


Says made from surplus.


Surples ammo is just old ammo. There are plenty of companies that make all kinds of 7.62mm ammo of all kinds of grade.


PMP actually makes ammo and i know our old ammo is either shot up, sold or disposed. We may not produce accurate rounds for mass production but a DMR does not need that. It is not a sniper rifle.

You can hit a target at 600m with a fal with out much change. The round is prety accurate


USMC are moveing tge M249 to company level the M27 is moving to the squad level IAR


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle


It a stupid move in my book that they will regret

Patchesagain:
So you are saying the JF-17 and FC-1 are one in the same?

They are a variant of each other like the M240 and FN mag

patches689:
Us M14s are fresh built and smithed - it's called Ebr has a new shortened free-floating barrel, skimmed gas cylinder, new chassis and purpose made ammunition with an M.O.A of 0.8

As i already explained, FN-fal get an M.O.A of 3 if you are lucky, 6 more likely. You can't effectively free float the barrel, the barrel itself will likely be old and worn, and you will be firing surplus ammo, you have to do extensive work on the cylinder and more often than not you have to file out part of the chamber

It's meme thinking to beleive that long barrel + optics+ bipod = marksmen rifle.

Yes, there is a problem with using a GPMG as a SAW, because it is a GPMG

With regards to the Saws I mentioned, those were magazine fed automatic rifles, which by all accounts are obsolete. Let's use the Brits for example - they replaced the Bren with the L86 LSW and then dropped it like an ugly baby - because the automatic rifle is obsolete, and replaced it with the belt fed Minimi

Any way go back to the start of the discussion, it was about what a worthy rifle for domestic production was and I was arguing that it was a modern modular design that would be able to fill the role of carbine, Dmr, rifle and Saw

This talk of various weapons was a diversion

The EBR are made drom surples they not new builds.


The M14 had tge same issue's it still gets the job done and why will it fire surpless ammo. 7.62 nato is still in production world wide.



That prety much all you need. Itva marksmen rifle not a 2000m sniper rifle. You typcaly shooting people in range of the assult rifle maybe out to 500m.


Again some see the SAW as usless idea and the IAR is not dead. Even use 50 round mags to make a R4 in to a IAR the USMC use a IAR. The brits droped there IAR because it could not do suppressing fire.




There is no such weapon that does it all good enough.

jakeporeshenko:
Nigerian navy SOF

That rifle camo is ment for where? Seems very bright. Camo is typcaly ment to be dull.

Why is some one complaining about a. FN FAL as a DMR. It a great choice it accurate and long ranged slap on a scope, long barrel and bipod good to go. The US have used M14s in Afghanistan so i dont see age as a issue.


The Fal is still used to this day by the sandf. Border partrols typcaly have one in case of wild life being a issue and they used in the Congo speciol forces use them allong with the G3


There is all so nothing wrong with russian GPMGs and LMGs even when used in a SAW role. Rember tge SANDF does not have a SAW in serves and there use would go against our doctrine in any case.


It the AK47 that out dated not PKMs. A machine gun needs to fire a high rate of fire, dependable at a good range. Hell the FG42 from ww2 if chamberd in 7.26mm would still do the job a SAW the brits where fighing in the falklands with Bren guns and that basic desgine predated ww2. Age does not make some thing obsolete being suparsed does not even make some thing obsolete. No longer haveing a role does. To offten thing are seen as obsolete discared then brought back in to serves. America dumped the recoiles rifles because tge TOW was the new tank killer then the broght them back since shooting a ATGM at a hut to kill a sniper is costly and recoils rifle can do the same job cheaper.

Nok234:
ALJAZEERA ARE BIASED AND SYMPATHISER, I am a muslim I tell Aljazeera are biased crazy people trying to justify terrorism all around the world. look at what they say about al shabaab all the shit ... just like France24 who are trying to justify France bullshit in Africa ... but is ok lets go back to our topic

what is that

Those are flotation devices in case it ditchs at sea.

frumentius:
Designed to entice @AndrewZA out of hibernation!

Not the first time navy has had CJOPS though.

jln115:
@EVarn the thread used to be fun, but now its just undeniably stup!t, ret@rded and tribalist B.S......When the regulars like Henry240, bidexiii Patches689, Activatekruger, andrewza, and even Agaugust used to comment at least the posts still made some sense.

Now Im forever dumer for reading them!!

Why do you think i dont like coming here. It makes me stupid.

EVarn:
Teraza is Still a rookie in the system
They will all run away after getting thrashed here on Nairaland...... where are Mzilakazi,Dievluit,Mikeczar,Mduza,andrewza and the likes today??

I get bored of the stupidity so i leave

Patchesagain:
3 tanks
Chally 1, Chally 2 and Abrams

Abrams was the first operational tank with Chobbham as well

Brits have never exported it. People call all composit armour chobbam these days and that is wrong. America use there own composit armour developed in America. South all so uses it's own composit armour.




Chobbam is britsh only used by them. It has become a word used to describe all composit armour but this is wrong.

Patchesagain:
Again, no Abrams with the DU layer has ever been penetrated.

Big difference between the M1, M1A1, M1A2 and M1A2's with SEP (1, 2 and 3)... As well as the other half dozen upgrade systems floating around (TUSK, HA+ etc)

Iraqis use the old M1A1 (no DU, no SEP, not fully digitised), Saudis use mainly M1A2S (degraded SEP v1) which have chobbham but no DU.

The DU is the key.

They dont have Chobbam. They have composit armour only 1 tank uses Chobbam.

patches689:
a. "growing threat"
b. 20 year old ATGM

Pick one and only one.

Marine commander will say whatever is politically expedient to get funds, Syria is a hot button topic so Syria gets used as a "why". You are forgetting how the US Senate works.

There are far more modern ATGM being fielded in Syria than you would imagine.

Henry240:
Supported.


Andrewza, let's see how NNS Unity looks like, close up. You gave that same lame excuse about your camera when NNS Centenary visited in 2014 and 2015.

No matter how shitty your camera is, let's see some photos.

Woops she is gone all ready. But there is a YouTube video of her coming in.

Henry240:
Simmons town, South-Africa i guess. I hope you guys shoot photos of it, and post online. It left Mauritius a couple days ago.

Mine are poor qualtie. But our navy news, your navy news and what looked like civlian news where here. There will be pics.

Guess where your boat is

https://d254andzyoxz3f.cloudfront.net/d55.jpg



The UAE boat hit by the missile

lionel4power:
SAFFERS??

Yes, we remove them for maintance it really not that big of a job even just need a crane.

chinese8107:
that's probably an earlier m16 knockoff
This is latest version m4

Still an AR15 rip off

chinese8107:
China made CQ-A rifle
M4 knock-off

the Namibian navy guys I spoke to says he hates it

chinese8107:
rader are upgradeable on both planes,it just matter of time.who upgrade first.some specs information are classified
.probably only pilot or top official knows.open source may not be credible.
meteor missle seems an advantage over current JF-17's untill PL-15 upgrade.

JF-17 was not likely designed to encouter Gripen by now

So it's meanless an argument on them

it was likely built to compete with them for sales though

Katyusha:
Nonsense....what business do females have commanding combat units? The decision to admit females into NDA for the RC was purely political.... Even female West Point grads don't command combat units.

Captain Aliyu: Why is this post not fully manned?!
Private Okoro: Sir, we are awaiting orders.
Captain Aliyu: From who?!
Private Okoro: The platoon commander....Sir, she is on maternity leave.
Captain Aliyu: What?!
Private Okoro: Yes Sir..last week, we had to suspend operations as she was suffering from a bout of postmenstrual stress.

Female Combatants my ass...Feminist nonsense.

Male solders can get maternity leave to. You going to have to use a better reason than that.

jln115:
When Australia was evaluating the F35 they sent several defence personal to Ex Pacific Vision:

in the mock battle there was blue force: F22,F35 and F/A 18 and Red Force:Su27sm and 2 Su30s

And if i remember correctly, the beating blue force took was so severe that one of the Australian defence personal describe it as...and i quote "clubbing baby seals"

I highly doubt this took place. The F35 was not operational back then and still is not. The F22 only had issues with the Rafael and even then it won over all but a few where lost in simulated dog fights.


The Quote came from a computer simulations not a red flag style exercise.

iblawi:
You are still trying to complicate thing when you've actually shot yourself on the foot.

South Africa have nothing like upgrades on their Gripens.

Please just accept that your initial claim was fault cause Mk4 is coming with Gripen E/F in 2017. For now there is nothing like 0.1m2 object detection for gripen.

Actually with our support deal with SAAB we get all the upgrades the gripens get as they come out.

Perfectdanny:
Lol. Desert Eagle inco. Lol

Be careful at bolded though.

One of the worst military pistol choices ever is the Desert Eagle. To big and to heavy

Perfectdanny:
Exhausted ammunition for your primary weapon when seperated from colleagues at war.

ISN'T THAT ENOUGH REASON?

I would rather spend the space and weight to carry more ammo