₦airaland Forum

patches689:
The Bundeswehr is a meme these days.

Liberal politics is cancer for a military.

If you want to have a giggle, google German military readiness - there is an article from Der Speigel that shows how pathetic it is. Its beyond shocking, and there was no excuse because it was AFTER the Crimea crisis

Hell, just last year there was a story about how they were using broomsticks to simulate machine guns on armored vehicles for exercises because they didnt have enough working ones to go around.

The broom stick part is not true. German panzer wither tank or IFV train far with ammo. Most of the articals are ver ill in formed.

patches689:
the ability to quickly dismount infantry seems like it would be usefull when fighting on a tiny stip of water

this is not for streams and tiny rivers. But true rivers and lakes. Any case it still cant beach it self so a ramp or hatch is pointless and weakens it. But you see how the aft is open. The vredburg used to tow a rhib behind them to launch shore parties. As like this boat beaching is not the aim. Even if there was a ramp or hatch it would not be used.

Henry240:
The problem i have with the Z-10 is that, it is so beautiful, it kinda looks like a toy.


The MI-28 below is my screen saver, beauty!!

The z10 is meant use a lot from the rooivalk. But it does not duct the exhausts in too the rota wash?

frumentius:
Chkil, have you guys adapted the Fuchs APC for local conditions?


More here: http://warisboring.com/malis-desert-climate-is-the-doom-of-armored-vehicles/

The badger is still not been africanized and i heard the Leo2 all so was found wanting. These new sytems from America, Europe and even russia are not as tough as the old sytems. They built to fight in nice European country sides. Not the African bush.

patches689:
Disappointing that the crew has to get out over the side rather than through a hatch+ramp on the front

Hatches and ramps weaken the hull. It is meant as a river patrol boat. Not sea assault, landing or special operations. It is basscally doing what the vrendenburg did back in the 80s. Only this time the boat carries more, is armoured, faster and over all better suted to the job. It will not do beach landings since it is not built for that.

Hrmnn:
I completely agree the lack of a dedicated assault gun/infantry support variant is not the most pressing concern for the Badger fleet since the Rooikat can be used in that role.

However, according to my understanding that's not the Rooikat's job. It is supposed to provide reconnaissance and undertake flanking actions as needed, not spend all its time backing up the Badgers and infantry.

The Rooikat was not designed as a replacement for the Ratel-90's role and shouldn't be regarded as such.

Incidentally, you mentioned substituting what we already have...that shouldn't be an issue if one puts the existing 90mm turret on the Badger.

In a strange way the rooikat did replace the ratel 90.


The ratel 90 was procured to replace the eland 90 and was used in the armerd car recon role. It was seen as more mobile. The eland 90 all so originally was used many times to provide fire support. In fact SSB the active duty battalion with rooikats all so uses ratels and is one of the units that will replace the it ratels with badgers.

For me the FSV badger should of been 4 ingwen ATGM and the 30mm. Could of usef a ingwen with a therobaric warhead.

Hrmnn:
I'd generally agree with this sentiment.

The Brazilians created a pretty good turret which mated a 90mm gun to an ATGM launcher and I wished that was the way the Badger would go.

The 60mm gun-mortar is useless against dug in troops, buildings, static fortifications, and other "hard targets" which is why a large calibre weapons system capable of fulfilling the assault gun type role would be more useful.

However, the mortar can indeed be used in that role if it were up-gunned and capable of firing HEAT ammunition like the LAV-M with the British 120mm mortar by Delco and Royal Ordnance. This thing has been used by the Saudis in Yemen and capable of flattening structures, older tanks, and infantry alike. It's both an assault gun and a mortar.

Actually I thought that Denel would go for something like that if they really wanted a multipurpose mortar for the Badger, it really surprised me when I heard they were sticking with a longer barrelled 60mm.

Pictures of the Brazilian turret (first two) and the LAV-M mortar combination (second two) below:

The badger 60 will do a better job at Fire support than the Ratel 60. The bagder 60 round is 85% as lethal as a 81mm mortar with 10km indirect range. All so it cant really up gun it with out reducing troop carry capacity. Tge ratel 60 is typicaly the platoon leader vechile. I do t see that changing.



If it could be done fiting rooikat turrets to a. Badger would be the best choice.



What would be nice is getti g 120 AMOS sytem.

ActivateKruger:
I find the 90mm an odd gun in modern battlefields. You either have formal armies using heavy armour that a 90mm can't penetrate or you have guys running around with Toyota bakkies that you'll have a hard time shooting with a 90mm. It's either you have a 76mm and below or 105mm and above.

As for the 30mm SANDF selection, I think it's a perfect choice as you would have noticed that the world now uses a 25/30mm as standard.

90mm is great for FS. Eg shoot that house, shoot that trench extra extra. All so a shot from a 30mm AP round could pass through a BTR60 but the 90mm HEAT would cause far more internal damge.

giles14:
u are so funny.
wot makes 209 a better submarine than kilo

Electronics, sensors, navigation. All so German subs don't blow up while along side.

MikeCZA:
I don't why they didn't go for the Russian Kilo class or the Type 214.

209 is better than kilo cheaper than 214.

bidexiii:
of course we do .

The smily makes it a joke. But yeah you guys dont use mortas like SA where they every where. We love em more than the Americans.

nemesis2u:
why not mount them on trucks and use them in ground attack role.

very easy to do so.

got the range , go the firepower and cheap at that.

Probably because it not in serves. Just in reserve. All so with 2 to 6 tons in weight with out crew or ammo you cant use any old truck for a boffors 40.

lexykeyz:
Please you guys should stop the notion we are surrounded by weak airforces. Those same countries give other "powerful" countries the liberty to use their bases in storing quality aircrafts. What should stop them from using it against us. Like some one always says "We are not friends we just have mutual interests". When such "mutual" interests dies why should we be friends happens even in our day to day activities.We should look beyond us having weaker neighbours to having foreign influence with superior air capabilities. #ONWARDTOGETHER

No one keeps any combat air craft in west Africa. And while it fully depends on the war. But if Nigeria goes to war against a French suppported Chad for example. While a squadron of fighters wont matter. Does not matter the type. France will use it's influence to drag the rest of your neighbours to war and blockade you. It air force will quickly gain the skies and your army will be waorn down bit by bit.

GreenandGold:
We captured a similar system in Angola, it was either operated by the Angolans or the Cubans.

To amazement I saw it in AAD 2012 (if not mistaken) driving perfectly fine.

It kept in working condition. Though it is not operational.

Henry240:
The SU-34 is the world's best strike fighter, NAF missions are primarily strike missions. Strike/Interdiction missions form the core if all NAF attack missions.

We could do with an aircraft like the SU-34, we require multi-mission aircrafts. The Su-30 has never been a choice for me or the NAF. NAF's requirement is for a single engine multi-role fighter, our country is not that large. Hence the choice of the JF-17 Thunder.

The Alpha Jets are old, and they would be replaced soon enough.

The Super Tucano has so many advantages in a COIN or LICW threat environment. We need those planes, but not at the costs rumoured as been quoted.

JF-17 is way miles better than the F-16 from an NAF point of view. Hence we are going for them.

Maybe replace the alpha jets with L15s. It is costly for a trainer but it a good light fighter.


The supper may look expensive but many ti.es these deals are more than just aircraft. It could include ISTR package, maintenance deal, simulators, training, weapons extra extra

Dont knock the f16. In numbers the USA can provide for cheap. Money wise.



I would take tge su25 over su34s. Nigeria does not need the air craft like the su24 or su34.

zynzyn:
Has enough been done to damage their ability to recruit new members or evolve into something else?

Al Qaeda evolved into ISIS!

AQ did not become ISIS. ISIS broke away from AQ. AQ is still around.

Henry240:
SU-34 is not an Air Superiority fighter, it is a Ground Attack/Strike Fighter.

Su34 is one of the best strike aircraft out there. But it is a bit costly and single rolled for NAF. I think he meant the su27 or su30 though. Again a costly choice but it is a proper multi role air craft. You could phase out the alpha jets and J7 and run just su30s, a few alpha as fast jet trainers and super tucoons. A small air force in terms of number of aircraft but far more deadly. Cheap turbo props for light ground support and COIN and a big su30 for conventional war far and larg scal strikes.



The super have a number of advantages over jets in COIN. They cheaper to run, easier to maintain, have a smaller logiscal foot print and need less complicated runways. They can oprate close to the front. There ISTR ablieties are all so top notch. Around 18 should do with arround 8 to 18 su30s. I might even say 8 su30s so to keep flying hours high but buying 18 and kerping 10 in reserve is a good choice.



NAF does not need to many fighters. You surrounded by pretty weak air force's and your most likely threats are all rebels wether internal or external.



Other opstion is to just embrace the American capture and get bunch of F16s. You could get them on the cheap to free. Pilots can get trained in the USA or even Israel. And the F16 is better than any thing you have in serves and any thing any one arround you has. USA will help run them kerping glying hours high and numbers high. Of course your payment is high and not in cash.

Hrmnn:
Pantser okes and mounted infantry having bad days. Not at all funny at the time no doubt, but they make for good stories later.

The first one reminds me of a funny story that has been retold many times and undergone many national varieties. I think versions have been told in the Russian and US armies before.

So this lucky loot gets the word that he's going to be a new father. The dad to be decides to celebrate in typical army style by going fishing: takes a few of his men, a couple crates of ice cold shumbas, an APC, and they set off into the bush.

Soon they reach an idyllic lake.

Fishing in this context of course mostly means knocking back a few beers in good company. I suppose there was actual fishing involved, if you count throwing grenades into the lake.

After a few too many, one of the sharper sticks in the bundle gets the bright idea to fish in the middle of the lake. This will make things invariably more productive and interesting. Everybody agrees and they plunge the APC into the lake with gusto.

Unfortunately in all this excitement someone has forgotten to close all those lovely little hatches and ports so the vehicle almost immediately sinks. Whoops!

Nobody drowns, which is a miracle in itself, but now our heroes have to recover the APC. A distinctly unimpressed salvage team is summoned. These okes put on their scuba gear, and go underwater to see what's what.

When they surface, the team leader asks the loot what the serial number of his APC is. Naturally he is dumbfounded.

"The serial number? What? Why?"

"Because there are four sunken APCs in this lake!"

If i was to guess the first pic went like this.


They drive through that water at that crossing every day. But then one flash flood, rain storm later. Because that only just over the rattels fording abliety. Or the drive did not go fast enough.



Second one reminds me of how a ratel flipped on a operation. They flipped it back on the wheels and off it went.

lionel4power:
none of the questions henry posted should be classified in a normal clime but I was assuming that the officers around might not be too friendly with sharing any info.... you know this men dont like sharing technical info on any of their systems.

There is a difrence between what it can do and how it does it.

tdayof:
Nothing classified in here.



The technology behind is also easy. Gulma should have such capability.

Sending i fo real time over a secure line from the Gulam to say a fighter or art is not as easy as you think. But i dont see why it cant. If the gulam as a GPS or some other way of establishing it,s position, a laser rang finder and a means to get berrings it can easily figure out on a map where the target it is looking at is located.


Onse it has that infomastion that where there is a snag. Do the fighters and gunners have the sytems in place to recive the data. I dont think nigeria as such a system in place. I think it being relayed. Though depending on the mission that relay could be near real time.

GreenandGold:
You guys are getting a real-time action camera on a rifle

Probaly for speciol forces, secstion IC and other specialized personal only. Just hope they dint use it to take selfies.

lionel4power:
am sure you have no idea that the americans you mentioned has decommisioned their most prominent recon group (long range surveillance-LRS) and merged them to a combat brigade team like stryker brigade. that means that those guys now has a primary role as fire team. although special forces or special operations forces has recon and scout as a secondary role.
.
secondly you failed to mention that the US has 'tons' of UAVs and drones too.

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also you dont realize that why deep scout mission is unfavourable is due to the fact that you cant count on naval or air support or even artillery indirect fire support.

Since when are america the masters of war and for thought. USA thought fighters did not need guns, the air force wanted to scrap the A10 for years and they built the LCS.

Jelal0007:
U do realise in all honesty,u haven't made any sense besides using vague facts. Give us real facts;how many pilots are there 4d Gripen? And says who Nigeria didn't play any role in ending apartheid in SA?

Migeria did notbi g to end apartheid. The only Nigerians that died fighting aparthief forces died in nigeria as the result of SA forces support of Bifar. Yes south africa sent solders to nigeria.



The number of gripen pilots changes every year as pilots get qulified. It takes years to become a gripen pilot by the way.

Henry240:
Andrewza, the Nigerian Air Force from the speech I posted confirms the F-7 is used in the deep interdiction role.

Deep strike role.

Does not mean it is meant for that role. Only you have limted aircraft.

bantudra:
i grew up with dem dem...i know them in and out and studied their psychology and minds throughout centuries..

their children today are the same as their ancestors yesterday..

if they realy changed,they would have abandoned the issue with henry and call it a day..but they wont and never will..

they always want to win,no matter how big or small the matter is...

This is funny because you useing the same sudeo science white racist use when refering to blacks.

bantudra:
isnt egypt africa too??..who cares who has what..?..

we should be combining forces like nato,not measuring dicks....

this "Giant of Africa" title is rubbish...nigerians dont want it sef...

African countries strug to unfie them selfs and you want africa to unite?

stabbo:
So I believe you conducted a comprehensive survey of all petty grocery shops in SA to ascertain the nationality of their owners...or you did a survey of all Nigerians in SA to determine the fact that none of them own any shops, or are you just pulling this declaration out of your poo hole?

Or i just do shoping yeah. I not seen a Nigerian shop once. Seen plenty of shops.

Henry240:
No Sir, they are not. The Alpha Jet is the Primary trainer of the Nigerian Air Force, they perform a secondary light attack role. the F-7 is Nigeria's primary multi-role aircraft, that is, until the JF-17 replaces/compliments them in that role.

For attacking insurgent forces like BH the alphais better. Does the job at less cost.

Henry240:
, So the Alpha Jet is our main attack aircraft?

They are. They do it better than any thing else you have.

frumentius:
You guys have also not factored in the nearby French departments of Reunion and Mayotte.

I did. Please refer to african pupets

stabbo:
Mfufu have you filled a job application this morning? Resident nairaland troll...stop loitering on nairaland, go do something productive with your life. It's not everyday that you will find a Nigerian grocery store to loot, sometimes you actually have to WORK in order to eat you know . Run along now troll.

Nigerians owned store? Sorry Nigerians are not known as shop owners in SA.

jln115:
Fair point....maybe my rhetoric is more suited to a Nato invasion.

That a very diffrent beast. No nation could stop NATO and friends. The sure amount metal and men in NATO is scary.