₦airaland Forum

Donian007: Keep fooling yourself, even SAengine has admitted that Seleka rebels returned a captured SANDF soldier. And please don't get too emotional over this na, abeg, dis wan wey u dey so interested for Agaugust identity. Na wah o!

Why was mike duran not killed. Seleka was a mix matched of groups. Some displied solsders others doped up kids. He was just luky.

Donian007: See how you're contradicting yourselves.

What contredecstions. I corrected a typo and one factual mistake.

agaugust: ask liberian/sierra leonean rebels, congo DRC rebels and dafur supporter of APC local militia what they usually do to any 'civilian' woman trapped and captured in their battle zone...dont ask me o ! i am under age 18 years



rebels ruling a whole country are not fools. they would ask for her ID or travel passport, if not, they will search her down to her p.anties to prove her true identity. they know some south africans are white, and what the h.ell will an american citizen be doing in a french speaking country inside the rebel controlled zone and battlefield ?

seleka let her go because there was a deal to spare south african army and not w.ipe them out.

same reason the captured south african soldier was released according to your post...why would seleka let a south africa soldier go free after he helped to b.utcher 800 of the seleka's colleagues ?

why would a south african soldier be in seleka captivity if he did not surrender to them ?

rebels dont respect civilians of their own tribe, enemy is enemy, why should the respect a south africa army woman because she wore civilian clothes ? you think rebels are fools ? if they are fools then south african army will still be in CAR today. they gave you a smart brilliant shocker for history to be told to your grandchildren in soweto.

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Do you have proofe of your redeclase cliams. You are a confirmend liary so nothing you say can ever be trusted.

Donian007: You and your comrades keep fooling around. THE POINT IS THAT YOUR CASUALTY FIGURE IS A "FRAUD". COWARDS!

why, she was a white civlian there is no way seleka would have even knowen she was south african.

why is it that seleka dont deniy there losses but a bunch of re*tar*ded nigrains do?

Donian007: Cry us River Zambezi

you assume we are in morrining or sad about car. We not 15 south africans died but we f'd the enemy up. we proud of what we did. What did you guys do in malil, run away before even being shot at. you genrail say it is to bolster defense against internal enemys yet you guys cliamed BH was deafted.

agaugust: .


[size=16pt]Susette Gates Conspiracy : how seleka rebels spared the lives of south african soldiers[/size]



contrary to claims by south africans that their army killed 500, then 600, and finally adjusted figure to 800 seleka rebels, the truth if logically proved that the south africans actually surrendered or begged the seleka rebels to allow them to escape in peace to the airport to come under french army protection.

QUOTE :

"Parliamentarians also warmly clapped when informed of the bravery of another female, Susette Gates, who works in the South African National Defence Force (SANDF)

She was confronted by the rebels who wanted to take the bags she’d retrieved. But she convinced them that she was carrying clothes left behind. She hitch hiked to the airport with French troops. "


SOURCE

http://www.sanews.gov.za/south-africa/parly-applauds-heroines-bravery

south african army did not kill any 500 or 600 or 800 seleka rebels otherwise the rebels in anger would have killed Susette Gates out of anger and revenge. only few rebels were killed, maybe about 100.

i had a battlefield simulation done with a retired combat soldier who has real life battlefield experience of infantry warfare, and a good knowledge of the american-somalia rebels firefight called 'black hawk down'.

conclusion was that there is no way south african army will lose 13 men while seleka rebels will lose 800 men to create a new world record infantry combat kill ratio of 1:61, that will be a new world record he said.

we looked critically at the weapons the seleka rebels had :

14.5mm double barrel anti-aircraft guns mobile truck mounted with firing range of about 5km and firing rate of about 1,000 rounds of ammunition in 5 minutes and it can pierce through light armour vehicles, for a human body it will tear the soldier into pieces.

105mm mobile anti-tank bazooka rocket launchers with range of about 2km and its rockets can pierce through heavy armour vehicles.

general purpose machine guns with range about 2km and rate of fire 5,000 bullets in 5 minutes.

AK-47 rifles were also used by the estimated 2,500 seleka force against the estimated 250 man south african army force.

the senior commanders of seleka are said to have at least average army military training in chad before their rebellion.

the south africans were out numbered in ratio 10 men against 1.

the seleka rebels used element of surprise attack because the south africans were not expecting them.

seleka was fighting at home and had advantage of knowledge of all the land and bush routes the south africans could use.

seleka rebels knew all the escape routes the south african army could use to escape and had blocked it, that is why Susette Gates still fell into the hands of seleka rebels who spared her life.

the seleka rebels did not need to get close to the south africans before wiping them out, their base was known and the mobile anti-aircraft guns with deadly amour piercing rapid firepower can tear the south africans into pieces from a distance of 1km away.

we simulated and discovered that with the above, the south african army can never kill 800 seleka rebels and lose only 13 men in about 18 hours of fighting.

as a form of simulation control/comparison, we related the battle of bangui to the american army battle against north korea in 'task force smith' 1950 korean war, where america was outnumbered in this same ratio 10:1, with 400 american specially selected soldiers against 4,000 regular north korean soldiers in the infantry encounter. in a few hours of combat 200 of the 400 american soldiers were dead or wounded and they retreated fast away from the battle field.

task force smith experience in war teaches world armies that you can never have a high kill ratio against a superior enemy unless their hands are tied to their backs with chains. you are more likely to lose the war to superior numbers and superior weapons, you cannot turn that situation around unless you chain the hands of the superior force so that you can k.ill them defenseless

in vietnam war 1965 to 1974, despite the awesome american land sea and air firepower superior to the communists, the kill ratio is estimated at 2:3, in favour of america/allies.

they did fight, but the south african army surrendered after losing the said 13 soldiers or likely even more, to avoid being totally wiped out, they surrendered to seleka and negotiated for a safe passage out of the area, that is clear from the fact that SANDF Susette Gates met with the seleka rebels they were said to be fighting with and she merely talked with them and they let her walk away without any harassment ! surely south african army had begged seleka to spare their lives and promised to leave CAR forever and never come back, for this reason, the rebels did not kill more of them and let them go free.

the south african propaganda kill ratio of 1:61 in their own favour, is a historical fraud in the history of war where the the so called winner is heavily out numbered and out gunned and also caught by surprise in a foreign territory they don not know well


.

You talking through your ass. We give proove were seleka them self admited to there heavy losses and then agreed to a cease fire. So please try your bull some were else.

GidiNaijaPikin: Seleka never overran your base ... so why did are you blaming France for refusing your retreating troops refuge around the Airport? Why were SANDF nowhere to be found when Seleka were posing and taking photographs in your deserted base?

Who ever told you that telling lies will make you handsome?

I never siad that you did. It was SA media that took the pics. And when we left there was a cease fire hence no over run.

GidiNaijaPikin: Moronic tendencies of Mr. AndrewZA. So is the South African lying media that cares about Africa. You must be a certified mental case beyond medical redemption!!

South africans died.

GidiNaijaPikin: You are talking with your head right inside your butto.cks while still lying through your teeth! No country will legitimately be in need of reinforcement to combat a common enemy and be denied access/ability to land reinforcement. Had that been the case, then how did SA take up the matter using available diplomatic channels!

Please tell lies and excuses to yourselves!!

And since when was france and seleka enemys. Seleka leader ship was openly based from france.

GidiNaijaPikin: The world media has as much interest. So what was MsauZA's point?

If you think the world cares about africa you should check your self in to a mental instustion.

GidiNaijaPikin: Please can you stop with all your shifting excuses already! The last time it was you who mentioned the French were in charge of the airport and would let SANDF retreat towards the secure airport area after Seleka overran your base ... now this? Please stop all the lies!!

Seleka never over ran our base. So you talking out your ass. I siad they would not let's us fly in our renforments in to CAR.

http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2013/07/23/sandf-drones-patrol-borders

THE South African National Defence Force (SANDF) is increasingly using unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), also called drones, as part of measures to keep the border under surveillance.

This is according to the SANDF’s Maj-Gen Barney Hlatshwayo, chief director of operations development. He said the defence force had adopted a multi-pronged approach to patrolling the border.

Drones had been brought into operation to reduce costs, given the sheer extent of terrain that would otherwise be covered by vehicle patrols.

South Africa has a border with six countries, and 2,798km of coastline.

The defence force is also using drones to combat rhino poaching in the Kruger National Park.

In April, the state-owned manufacturer of missiles and UAVs, Denel Dynamics, defended the sale of its technology to countries approved by the United Nations and the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, amid claims that it was co-operating with countries such as Saudi Arabia to develop drones that can carry missiles.

Denel Dynamics has developed two types of drones, one of which has attracted the attention of several foreign armies.

At the Land Forces Africa Conference in Pretoria last week, Maj-Gen Hlatshwayo said unlike recent reports that the US was using UAVs to spy abroad, South Africa sought to ensure that the technology was used for good and did not infringe privacy.

Michael Marshall, international business development manager at Boeing, said surveillance aircraft and unmanned aerial patrols provided a cost-effective solution for monitoring coastlines, hostile force build-up and other beyond line-of-sight capabilities.

http://www.army.mil/article/107855/US_Army_Africa_exercise_Shared_Accord_13_kicks_off_this_week/

PORT ELIZABETH, South Africa (July 23, 2013) -- U.S. military forces are teaming up with South African National Defense Forces for Shared Accord 13, near Port Elizabeth, July 24-Aug. 7, 2013.

Shared Accord is an annual training exercise involving in-depth joint cohesion between U.S. and South African military forces during multiple training scenarios.

"This mission is designed to increase interoperability and build friendships with the South African Defense Force," said Maj. Chuck Slagle, executive officer for 2nd Armored Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division.

The exercise involves many participants to include about 700 American military members from the Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force and more than 3,000South African National Defense Forces, or SANDF, members.

"Anybody can learn from anyone. We definitely learn from each other and can contribute our expertise to these exercises," said South African Military Health Services Capt. François Van Huyssteen, veterinarian with the Military Veterinary Institute.

Shared Accord 13, or SA 13, is a large-scale operation that will include multiple training missions to test the capabilities of both militaries. It will include an amphibious assault, combined live fire exercise, situational training exercises and a tactical airborne assault, which will lead into a Humanitarian Civic Action event, known as an HCA, for the South African community.

"It's great having all the Americans here," said Sgt. Maj. Andrew Stanley, watch officer for SA 13. "It shows the military capabilities and also the cooperation between the different forces."

HCA will provide health services to include dental, HIV screening and ophthalmology services, Slagle said.

Another aspect to HCA will be mobile veterinary services to include rabies vaccinations and tick treatments, Van Huyssteen said.

Through all of the exercises in SA 13, both militaries hope to improve skills while learning from one another.

"We're both here to learn," said Slagle. "The South Africans have a lot of experience and really we're just sharing. We're not training them on anything. We're improving each other through this exercise."

[quote author=Mike..ZA]The South Africans had the 105mm rockets,Y2 grenades launchers and RPG7s to clear the area around the base.[/quote]107mm rockets and I don't think we had any Y2 in CAR we used 12.7mm MGs instead. We all so had 60 and 81mm mortas. But at the base they only used small arms and RPG7s to attack them has they climed over the wall.

agaugust: .


[size=16pt]Nkoana Conspiracy : how seleka rebels spared the lives of south african soldiers[/size]



contrary to claims by south africans that their army killed 500, then 600, and finally adjusted figure to 800 seleka rebels, the truth if logically proved that the south africans actually surrendered or begged the seleka rebels to allow them to escape in peace to the airport to come under french army protection.

QUOTE :

"Parliament applauded South African Army medic Corporal Molatelo Aphinia Nkoana for her bravery in CAR, which was recounted by the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula.

She was confronted by the rebels who wanted to take the bags she’d retrieved. But she convinced them that she was carrying clothes left behind. She hitch hiked to the airport with French troops. "


SOURCE

http://www.sanews.gov.za/south-africa/parly-applauds-heroines-bravery

south african army did not kill any 500 or 600 or 800 seleka rebels otherwise the rebels in anger would have killed corporal Nkoana out of anger and revenge. only few rebels were killed, maybe about 100.

i had a battlefield simulation done with a retired combat soldier who has real life battlefield experience of infantry warfare, and a good knowledge of the american-somalia rebels firefight called 'blackhawk down'.

conclusion was that there is no way south african army will lose 13 men while seleka rebels will lose 800 men to create a new world record infantry combat kill ratio of 1:61, that will be a new world record he said.

we looked critically at the weapons the seleka rebels had :

14.5mm double barrel anti-aircraft guns mobile truck mounted with firing range of about 5km and firing rate of about 1,000 rounds of ammunition in 5 minutes and it can pierce through light armour vehicles, for a human body it will tear the soldier into pieces.

105mm mobile anti-tank bazooka rocket launchers with range of about 2km and its rockets can pierce through heavy armour vehicles.

general purpose machine guns with range about 2km and rate of fire 5,000 bullets in 5 minutes.

AK-47 rifles were also used by the estimated 2,500 seleka force against the estimated 250 man south african army force.

the senior commanders of seleka are said to have at least average army military training in chad before their rebellion.

the south africans were out numbered in ratio 10 men against 1.

the seleka rebels used element of surprise attack because the south africans were not expecting them.

seleka was fighting at home and had advantage of knowledge of all the land and bush routes the south africans could use.

seleka rebels knew all the escape routes the south african army could use to escape and had blocked it, that is why corporal Nkoana went through hidden bush paths and still fell into the hands of seleka rebels who spared her life.

the seleka rebels did not need to get close to the south africans before wiping them out, their base was known and the mobile anti-aircraft guns with deadly amour piercing rapid firepower can tear the south africans into pieces from a distance of 1km away.

we simulated and discovered that with the above, the south african army can never kill 800 seleka rebels and lose only 13 men in about 18 hours of fighting.

as a form of simulation control/comparison, we related the battle of bangui to the american army battle against north korea in 'task force smith' 1950 korean war, where america was outnumbered in this same ratio 10:1, with 400 american specially selected soldiers against 4,000 regular north korean soldiers in the infantry encounter. in a few hours of combat 200 of the 400 american soldiers were dead or wounded and they retreated fast away from the battle field.

task force smith experience in war teaches world armies that you can never have a high kill ratio against a superior enemy unless their hands are tied to their backs with chains. you are more likely to lose the war to superior numbers and superior weapons, you cannot turn that situation around unless you chain the hands of the superior force so that you can k.ill them defenseless

in vietnam war 1965 to 1974, despite the awesome american land sea and air firepower superior to the communists, the kill ratio is estimated at 2:3, in favour of america/allies.

they did fight, but the south african army surrendered after losing the said 13 soldiers or likely even more, to avoid being totally wiped out, they surrendered to seleka and negotiated for a safe passage out of the area, that is clear from the fact that SANDF corporal Nkoana met with the seleka rebels they were said to be fighting with and she merely talked with them and they let her walk away without any harassment ! surely south african army had begged seleka to spare their lives and promised to leave CAR forever and never come back, for this reason, the rebels did not kill more of them and let them go free.

the south african propaganda kill ratio of 1:61 in their own favour, is a historical fraud in the history of war where the the so called winner is heavily out numbered and out gunned and also caught by surprise in a foreign territory they don not know well


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She was in civlians and they did not know who she was. And I see you choose SA media when it suits you. You are a foolish hypcrical liary.

patriot4: Doctors without reorters, is a french creation. So I guess you now believe the french !
And if you could quote them, with a link then I would apreciate.
And keep your propaganda outfit for yourself.
Give a non SA media outfit.

It a french creastion but it is not a french company or agency. And yes we belvie the french when they speak about france.

Phone doctors with out borders or send them a email. Throw in some money for all there hard work.

patriot4: The report I quoted said the CAR army fought alongside with you.
Now I don't know how many died, the whole world focussed on your own dead soldiers.
There is no way you can tell me no CAR soldier died. You don't have proof for that claim.
And the CAR soldiers were not only stationed at a certain bridge, they were everywhere and they were fighting with you.

Problem with counting CAR solders boides is they may have been turncoats. Seleka them self stated that only the south african put up any fight.

NaijaPikinGidi: First hand information because your journalists are the only reporters covering the CAR situation? So did the ANC really have interests?

Blerry joker!! You!!

Our media has more intrest in it. Sort of non of it was ileagel but there were and still are SA companys in CAR those companys pay the goverment Tax the goverment is ANC.

NaijaPikinGidi: Now which Airport have these lying South Africans been accusing France of occupying and refusing SA to retreat to or use? Now it is getting clearer to all that SANDF and their civiilian citizens will tell as many lies to cover their disgrace in the hands of Seleka!!

Or did Seleka overrun the Airport and SANDF ran looking for refuge from the French who were yet to arrive according to the report?



The true colours of South Africa emerging surely!!

The french would let us evac from the airport but would not let us bring in renforcments.

The SA solders at the palace was the training team that the solders out side bangue were there to protect. Not one of the training team was hurt.

patriot4: Not true, the CAR army fought alongside your own army.
By the way they were trained by you and I am almost sure they were officered by you, so in orther words they are no different from your army.

CAR army either switched sides or ran away. The only help was one run from a hind, a Ratel 90 and BMP1. Non stood for long and fled. We trained certain units of there milltary. Chefs, drivers, VIP protectors, officers extra. The seleka officer who led the attack on the SA solders was trained by us.

sambos994: Why send 200 soldiers into no man's land and expect them to defend against thousands without air support?

200 SA solsers, 1000 fomac solders and about 2000 loyal CAR solders. If all side had stood there ground the battel would have been won.

[quote author=Mike..ZA]If you follow military operations. You will know that,the "protection unit" never reached its full strength of 400. Did you see what kind of equipment France sent to Mali?[/quote]Did you see the force the cowards FOMAC had.

agaugust: i read general pattons personally written memoirs, not a second hand story teller british man writing about american general for you to read.

america defeated germany. patton is american, and i am too. i work with retired american soldiers. you are a navy man in soweto waters.

patton defeated rommel, germany was defeated by america in north africa after the british failed there you drunkard .

it is simple war history that the whole world know except you people in south african cage locked up and cut off from the outside world.

So you read the memours of a man who all most shot a solder duffring of PTSD and called him a coward. A man that was great at chasing down deafted enemys and bragging about it.

The germans were deated in operastion elamian. The first battel america fought against the germans in Africa was a loss for them. By the time the amercans started to win rommel had been recalled.

You know nothing.

agaugust: talk with common sense, or else i have to repeat what i usually say. you say nigeria cnnot move 660 guns on home soil, and no food for our artillery soldiers at home defending nigeria, but your south africa can move food 5,000 km away from home to attack nigeria in naval blockade.

show me why i should not pity your mother. you deserve the 'insult' by talking like a m.oron in a p.sychiatric hospital

i dont ever post your type of i.nsane statements you know

You looking at 400 SA salours that move with all there support gear. That less men than you want to move guns. Do you see the diffrence. Watmeolone to grapes.

agaugust: source please. with quotes and extracts plus weblinks.

If you did not know this you a joke. Any body who cliams to have studied milltary tactice would have knowen this infomastion. Stope browsing wikpeadia(your only source and read a book) I recomend rommel by desmond young a britsh officer who fought in north africa. Wrinten in the early 50s.

agaugust: i pity your mother she gave birth to a .....

I see you resorted to your standard tactice when deafted. Insults and a post of no falue. See why I call you a fool.

sambos994: I mean even if you launched a "mini blitzkrieg" or you killed 500 or 600 or 800 rebels(sources disputed). What's the point if you don't win? I mean you guys brag about killing 800 rebels or how many you come up with, but they still took over Bangui. Now you guys are bragging about tactics at the Bush War and what happened? You lost the war AND Namibia as well...

Our object and mandat was never to defend bangui it was to defend the SA training team and civlians. Non of whom were injurd or killed.

The deal of SA pull out was has such. All cubans pull out and angla and ANC will not have ANC basses. And we still had a base in walvis bay till the end of aparthied.

agaugust: sorry dummy, america did NOT use german general rommels tactics of africa corps tank battles in iraq, america uses general pattons tactics that defeated and wiped out general rommel in north africa world war II. please dont venture into war history, i am gonna white-wash you.

Rommel only fought the amercans once in north africa. And he won. Patton actually coppied the german style of war fare.

sambos994: But did you win the bush war?

We never lost a battel.

agaugust: Blitzkrieg is an old fashioned war of year 1939 you dummy !

Blitzkrieg was first named in 1939 but the proof that mobielty is a force muiltplier and deadly have beenaround far longer. Look at mongola, huns, parthgianas extra. Or even more modern collstion invasion of Iraq.

agaugust: show us as a soldier you claim to be, show us how south africa will defeat algeria, then how you will defeat egypt, also how your south africa will defeat ethiopia

if you dont show us all these clearly and with proofs, no be ya papa born you
.

I never said SA could deaft Nigeria never mind algeria or ethyiopya. It does not change the fact we better.