₦airaland Forum

come on why don't you address the many points made. in both the naval and air force one please do try.


o and on the naval one here is one for you. put a G5 on the drakensberg now what you going to do.

i would also like for you to please

show proof nigeria has the archer arty system.

show proof nigeria uses GPS guided, base bleed, V-Lap, or any other advanced arty rounds

show how a GPS guided shell works on a moving ship.

Show you source on the SAN aluminum T-craft

and answer the different points made of your doggie roland argument

Augustine Again: @all south africans, as many as you are ....i reply you all in one combines posts

you all posted very poor and internet based battle field tactics, no wonder seleka rebels defeated south african army

all you 3 south africans (including 2 soldiers) against me 1 nigerian and you still cannot win, which poor military academy did you go to ?

Roland is not on open display like new shoes in trade fair exhibition for enemy aircraft to come and hit.

Roland speed 2,000km/hr, Mokopa speed 1,900km/hr, Paveway Bomb 35km/hr,Rooivalk helicopter speed 278km/hr...and you forgot i said earlier that artilleries never stand alone to fight....Type 90 air defense gun has double cannon with anti-aircraft ammunition speed of muzzle velocity shell speed 4,200km/hr that is why it is built to shoot down incoming enemy missiles firing 1,100 shells per minute as a close-in-defensive weapon.

no Gripen or Rooivalk can jam electro-optical target guidance of both Roland and Type 90, technically optical firing guidance CANNOT be jamed electronically, thats why manufactures installed it as option if radar needs to shut down.
did you write and pass military exams or impersonator wrote it for you ?

radar will be switched of if aircraft threat is picked up by radar before a missile gets close. Roland radar detects incoming attack from 18km away.

you assume the only radar on ground is directly on the air defence vehicle, wrong, other radars independent are on the same army battalion formation for other purposes and some for deliberate decoy, older Bofors anti-aircraft guns in an air defence battalion formation will confuse any aircraft or helicopter far away 10km trying to act like a spirit or oracle and determine which radar is directly on Roland or Type 90.

no pilot will ever know what radar he is picking up from 10km away or 30,000 ft high in the middle of many targets on ground, and aircraft radar or targeting pods does not travel bending around corners, like a snake. radars are airwaves and waves travel in straight line, simple physics law.

dont add to a weapon more than its real technology can do in reality, modern weapon does not mean supernatural spiritual weapon.

south africa has no strategic air power like NATO , america, russia, china to carry out SEAD against nigeria's level of air defence and technological advancement, we are not Togo republic. 8 Grippen jets cannot do that level of SEAD.

Roland shoots 10 missiles in less than 3 minutes, and reloads another 10 missiles in seconds.
Type 90 has too much ammunition resrves, its also reloaded rapidly in 7 seconds and many shells per catridge.

Grippen and Rooivalk can only carry few bombs and missiles at a time, and south africa has only 50 Paveway bombs and it will all be shot down plus any other weapons that comes also.

Paveway, Umbani, Mokopa are not among low calibre size high speed rate RCS minutions that wikipedia talks about. google the meaning of RCS, those type are usually very small and so tiny to hit.

all the south african bombs and missiles will be shot down by Roland in some seconds.

Type 90 also gives support to Roland, artillery never works alone, they work is a spider web of support.

Roland shot down both fast and slow aircraft, Harrier jet flies max speed 1,000km/hr, Tornadoe jet flies max speed 2,400km/hr and Roland has shot down all of them in combat, and those were British Royal air force jets pilots shat down, not even south african Gripen jets pilots that dont have enough flying hours to train annually and Rooivalk pilot that flew his helicopter blind like a bat into street electricity wires in broad daylight....south african pilots are far below the quality of British pilots Roland shot down.


Rolands wins, Gripen, Rooivalk, Paveway, Umbani, Mokopa all lose. i have posted many long details on this topic, i leave the rest to neutral public to judge us.

end of discussion

you failed to answer how you going to hit a 2m sized mokape AGM with a mach 2 optically guided missile, how you will be able to optically guide more than 1 missile per roland, how you will guide any while being jammed, how you will hit all of them if we launch more bombs than you have missiles. You failed to proof that a roland has a 100% hit rate vs anything.


actually the optical guidance of the roland use radio signals between control and missile, easy to jam.


the radar will point us in the direction of the enemy finally targeting is done with the recc pod.

correct radar dont travel aaround corners just like the roland can not shoot around corners, so if yo stick it in a vally that your problem because you making it worthless.

but we just point out how we can vs your roland and why do you think we will only send 8.

actually it is 8 and i doubt it matters though since how many do you think you can guide at the same time.

the gripen could carry 4 bombs, and still have space left for AAMs, targeting pods (not all need to carry one) and drop tanks, the hawk could carry 2 and have space left for drop tanks, AAMs and targeting pods, rooifalk can carry 16 mokape 1 per roland. and the paveway do not cost that much and stick the Denel bombs on it will not be to costly either.


proof they will all be shot down.

and what will the gun do waist ammo

the harrier is slow the roland was built to kill air craft flying no faster than mach 1.3(the mokape goes how fast again and is how small again)

there is no proof of a roland hitting a tornado only a harrier and A10 both slow aircraft for jets


basically you are a fool

Augustine Again: you want me to do naval simulation full page all over again, while me alone against all 3 of you south africans for Roland vs Gripen....and i am not shaking....perfect air defence in display...outnumbered 3 to 1 including your 2 soldiers whose uniforms i put on mango tree, you not even a.shamed ? i will red o naval blockade...i fear nobody among you...all 5 of you too small.

sit down my boy.

but you failed in the roland vs gripen, it does not matter how many we are you can not proof that the roland will work vs the gripen/hawk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6jHbej1jFA

BAE SA land systems OMC RG35 designed and built in SA

agaugust: [/b] did Seleka rebels use any computer to defeat South African army in CAR battle ? [b]

.

Seleka suffered over 500 dead maybe up to 800. One of the weapons used by SANDF there was the 107mm MLRS on the back of a hornet that has this guidance system, it did a very good job firing 207 rockets before running out of ammo. While it was firing no rebels could close in.

agaugust: How does your spiritual magical and supernatural Rooival helicopter detect a Roland SAM among many other armoured vehicle from 10km distance ? Will some herbalist do the target identification for it ? You want to use a 300km speed helicopter against a 2,000km speed missile, and Roland missile max range is 8km, and Rooivalk helicopter has low altitude by force, its not a Gripen, Roland missile altitude is far above the the low helicopter altitude.

The helicopter option is worse than Grippen, it gets shot down more easily.

You changed your weapon from bad to worse. You failed military exams in the academy ?

Germany that built Roland with France know that helicopter cannot identify a small vehicle target with from 10km away, that's why companies build air defense missiles with range less much less than 10km because no aircraft can carry out air to ground attack on vehicle targets from high altitude plus long distance, ground target from air CANNOT be identified as different from decoy or civilian assets beyond range of 3km away especially a camouflaged Roland air defense in a bush or under special camp cover tents as I posted in the photos today or a Roland tactically hiding between 4 trailer trucks or among taller 3 story buildings.

Does a missile targeting pod or radar turn around corners of obstacles looking for a specific target ?

Have you invented something new to science this morning ?

You think air to ground attack is same as air to air BVR engagement ?

Why does NATO and American ground attack super aircrafts like A-10 Thunderbolt and Tornado get shot down by air defense in Iraq and elsewhere ?

They wanted to hit target and they have no choice than to come close about 5km and that is already about 15,000 feet still high and far.

You think Europeans who build Roland with that range are F00LS to build a Roland that helicopter will come and hit ? No record of any jet that his Roland in combat and you now bring a slow and low flying helicopter....

You drink alcohol ?

the mokape can be launched from the ground to, and that is how it was tested. Why would the launch system need to see the target, using ZAlink any of our recc platforms can find and then guide it to it's target the rooifalk only needs to fly once the roland is found. fly to 10km fire in the direction of the target and let some one else guide it


those air to ground wepaons get in close and thuse are at risk, even so if you compare the number of missions to losses the numbers are low and this is against iraq who had far more and better SAMs than 16 roland

souldust: @andrew why dont you prove you have more reserve than us. Stop decieving yourself

You could have 10000000000000 reserve force pilots, what they going to fly. Any case NAF and SAAF both have around 10,000 members NAF has no reserve force structure SAAF has around 1000 active reserve force personnel a large portion of whom are pilots

Fighter Pilot: Thank you Agaugust!!! SA has many experienced pilots in reserves. We wouldn't even need the so called mercenary pilots.

The SAAF has very good reserve force many of those pilots work for the industry still either has instructors at paramount or flying for denel not to mention SAA. Somthing people seem to forget

Augustine Again: post the speed of Mokopa, Umbani, Paveway with weblink source or i will call you a F00L every day you come to nairaland.

paveway speed is 35km/hr, Roland speed is 2,000km/hr. i keep your air force uniform hanging on my mango tree, be c.areful or esle your boxer shorts too goes on mango tree.

You want to hit a 2m target with a opitcaly guided missiles with a insane closing speed

Augustine Again: you are still wrong again. mach 2 is the max speed for Gripen and it will suffer permanent engine damage if it flies at top speed running away from Roland missile. several other people are reading your post remember, dont disgrace south african university more than you already done today. a f00l that keeps quiet is assumed to be wise.

why would it suffer flying at its max speed, it will at most need to fly that for 5KM less than a 1min of full thrust

Augustine Again: https://www.rocketarium.com/products/RK-ROLND-L.jpg


@saengine in light fonts
@agaugust in bold fonts



So we already know your Roland is within a given radius of our artillery targets. Once you try track us with your Roland it is over for you. Your radar will give you away, that is a fact.



[b]have you checked Gripen range and confrim what i proves ? maximum time in the air is 15 minutes for Gripen, thats first big problem.

Roland operator is not a F00L, at 18km his radar sees Gripen. he waits quietly for Gripen to launch your only possible weapon...umbani bomb. you dont know Roland has high speed of switching from radar to electro-optical in few seconds push of a button, and its not ordinary human eye visual it is high-tech electro-optical missile guidance system.

great america swallowed its pride and bought Roland SAM from Germany/France.

Roland was so good and therefore expensive to build and buy, so many countries could not afford it, only nigeria in all africa

Roland does not need to switch off his rader, it Umbani and Paveway bombs are zero threat, Roland will shoot down all of them, bombs are slow, Paveway speed is 35km/hr but Roland missile speed is 2,000km/hr and we are not F00LS here my boy, dont you know basic maths and physics ? compare the speed, and Roland missile flies at 2,000km/hr perfectly shoots down Umbani/Paveway flying 35km/hr. did you pass science in school ? can 35km/hr out-run 2,000km/hr

the beginning of your failure is that you dont know that guided bombs are not really meant for moving targets that can defend themselves, they are for buildings, fixed assets, runways, roads, etc. Roland speed on ground is more about double the speed of the umbani, Roland will move away and GPS location changes to confuse the Gripen. [/b]




Your initial tracking radar tracks targets further than your missile range, so long before you switch to optical sight you need your radar switched on. That is your death sentence. Our pilots will be able to identify different targets from the safey of their cockpits. I told you South African pilots do not identify targets just by looking out the window like they do in Nigeria. So we will know exactly what to fire at.Read up on the tracking and target recongition capabilities of the Thales Digital Recon Package .



is the Gripen radar or recconaisance pod a televison screen that tells you difference between a Roland vehicle, AXM-30 Tank that has the same body/chasis/hull, T-72 Tank, Toyota 4Runner SUV, Bulldozer/Carterpillar, Industrial heavy machinery on roads, Steyr APC...do you think the things show like an CNN NEWS clearly or MTV movie on televison or like watching world cup and see Brazilian footballers different from German footballers ? sorry you are wrong its more like detection of presence of many metals on the ground too far away to be defined as Roland or Hummer 4x4 Army Jeep.

you got it all wrong.



What makes you think we need to fire at you from 100km away and at 50 000 feet? 100km is just the maximum range of Umbani. We can hit you from 6.5km if we want. I have posted about how Umbani performed a test having it change course during its flight path and still hit the target from many kilometers away http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/sauae-joint-guided-weapon-successfully-completes-difficult-test-mission-2013-04-08.



[b]you above weblink is blank, no data. i already researched your Umbani and i know its weakness and it will fail on a target that can defend itself, even Type 90 guns will shoot down the bomb.

if Gripen enters that 6.5km range you just changed to above, both the Gripen and its guided bomb will all be shot down by Roland. Argentina did it to the great British Royal airforce in falsland war, both the British jet and its two launched bombs were all shot down by only one Roland and it was not as good as nigerian Roland, it was a fixed un-movable Roland SAM. British air force never attacked that Roland again, they sent their army to capture it on land. is south africa air force better than than British air force ?

Spain is a NATO power still using its Roland SAM today and their own Roland is older version than Nigerian Roland

Germany used Roland until year 2005, for 7 years after Gripen came to service year 1998.

dont you every learn and become wiser ? i keep teaching you but you keep failing in my class ! [/b]




You claim that Roland will shoot down incoming bombs and munitions. But your friend Wikipedia that you love so much states: "Roland's latest upgraded versions have limited ability to counter incoming low RCS munitions (large-caliber heavyweight rockets)". If the LATEST version of Roland have a poor ability to shoot down incoming munitions, then your Nigerian Roland 2 is even much less effective. So you can keep dreaming to yourself that your Roland will be able to protect itself. Umbani can be rocket assisted, so it is not slow as you claim.




quote the exact words and weblink source that says a faster Roland cannot shoot down modern munitions launched against it, or else you become a comedian. their is no such lie in wikipedia, i studied Roland like a textbook, i drank Roland like water.

Roland shot down 2 British Royal air force high speed and high tech Tornado jets that fly at max speed 2,400km faster than Gripen jet.

Umbani rocket assistance is to increase range to 120km or more, not speed. a bomb will never fly at speed of a missile. quote source of Umbani claim of high speed or else i will call you a F00L in public today



And about our Gripen range. The range is extended much much further simply by adding external drop tanks, which still give space for our Recon Pod as well as missiles. Do you think the our Gripens which flew to Zambia did it in 15 minutes from Limpopo to Lusaka? You are a fool.



dont miss classes when i lecture my south african students. the more fuel you carry on Gripen, the less weapons, simple science, its maximum load is fixed. failure to carry self protection air to air missiles will expose Gripen to ordinary F-7 jets and it has same speed and longer range and higher altitude than Gripen. the F-7 is not the crap you south africans and some ignorant nigerians call it. i just showed you its few areas of superiority to Gripen



So like I say you have been defeated in your own challenge. You know that for a fact. Your only real response is that your Roland SAM will hide away from us. Once you try shoot us down you are finished, provided we stay above 5km off the ground which is not high at all (maybe that is high in the Nigerian air force). You have lost at your own game. Stop giving me excuses about your Naval Simulation reply. Type it again without the pictures




you changed again to 5km distance, it exposes Gripen to Roland SAM 8km missile range 18km radar range.

Gripen attack failed, i just shot down all your wasted Umbani/Paveway bombs in my tactical and technical scientific post above. the general public is reading your post and comparing it to mine, they are not F00LS.

Roland wins



stop deceiving people with lies about data...this is the weblink source for full story of Roland SAM including its combat records and history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_missile

South African Gripen jet can NOT hit Nigerian Roland SAM air defenses. case proved beyond doubt. case closed

that flight time will be different depending on speed it flys at.

but we do know it can go opitcal, and radar on means it is shouting where it is to all the world. That optical system only works when you can see the bomb what if it is night time. now what you going to do or if we jame it then what.

it was good, in the 1980s, now it is old tech more so since nigeria only has the MK2 version



do you have any idea how powerful the recc pod is, we could get the license plate number of the roland if we wanted to.


and back in the falklands war the nato was still new, it shot down a slow jet that had limited EW, poor maneuverability.


Spian is a broke and part of PIGS and it is not useing the roland 2 either



Not all of the gripen will fly in has bombers (who will have at least 2 A-darta or ISRT) some will go in has escorts



over all you seem to have zero under standing of what you saying

Augustine Again: 8 Gripen jets in 8 places. 16 Roland SAM in 16 places. who has more spread ? go back sleep. you never wake up well did early morning.

you don't think we will call up the reserves, move pilots seconded to other units back to 2 squadron, cancel leave and courses. It will not be 8 in in this case but many more.

Augustine Again: @Henry is correct, nigerian air force had zero combat aircraft at start of Biafran war, we purchased 54 jet fighters and jet bombers with hired private pilots all during the war time. nigeria has a formidable ability to transform in few months of war. nigeria has an emergency weapons supply defence pact with ukraine, i published it few months ago and @andrewza had to go silent immediately with shock. ukraine has about 250 Mig 29 Fulcrum and SU-27 Flanker jets with 150 jets in storage and many jobless discharged pilots for them.

50 SU-27 Flankers with private pilots will cost nigeria only less than $1 billion, and we have over $50 to $60 billion cash reserves.

see the Mig-17 nigeria bought many in less than 6 months of Biafra war starting.

https://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/mikoyan_mig17/ZMiG17_Nigeria_4.jpg


@fighter pilot, i say now answer my post, show us source of high speed umbani bomb that you say is faster than Roland missile or else your disgrace will be laughed at by the whole public readers today....i am waiting for you my small boy...

And SA can not hire pilots to, hell we got aircraft in storge our and can buy more to. Our reseve are larger than nigeris remember. So your point is moot

Augustine Again: you failed physics in school or in air force academy. 9.8m/s is 35km/hr speed, and paveway guided bomb is that slow. umbani is also slow, just glides more than paveway, you told a big lie about its high speed...show me source that says umbani bomb has high speed, show us source now or you will be called a F00L forever

....Roland missile high speed is 2,000km/hr, south african bombs will all be shot down from far away. nigerian Roland air defence wins the battle.

i promised i will rubbish those south african air force over-rated Gripen jets and Umbani/Paveway guided bombs today...and i am doing that now. any south african wants to make a F00L of himself anout Roland vs Gripen ? try it, nigerians are ready to reduce the Gripen to a useless toy today

point 1, you want to guide a mach 2 missile optically at a small target and hit all of them,
point 2, it not a 100% guarantee even without being jammed
point 3, just drop 1 more bomb than missile then what.

Henry120: First off, the Roland SAM is an old air-defence system. Nigeria has up-graded her air-defence architecture, following her completion of TRANCON.
So it would be naïve to assume that the Rolands are nigeria's only SAMs for air defence. We also posted images and links to nigerian developed air-defence systems with a range of 70km and also those of the AKASH.

However for the purpose of this particular discussion, and what is verified and common knowledge, we(I) would stick with the Roland SAM.

Our biggest asset using the Roland sam, which has a 5-6km range and at a speed of MACH 2, is the element of 'surprise'.

For the element of 'surprise' to be effective against SAAF gripens, we would have to deploy the full wait of our surveillance infrastructure. The roles Nigcomsat 1R and nigeria sat X would play cannot be over stated, as they would be our primary line of defence. Tracking and sending real-time imagery, videos and GPs locations of SAAF jets as soon as they leave pretoria- down to their planned attacks in lagos.

What it means is that the rolands would stay dead quite, up until the zero hour. As soon as locations of the jets tracked by our SATs get relayed to the ground stations and further relayed to troops on the ground and possible radius of gripens manually calculated, they (Roland sams), only need to give up their position once, which is to accurately pin-point the gripens, when it is within the range of our rolands and fire.

The pilots would be caught off guard, one jet down. With this method, would be able to sustain our element of surprise and still stay hidden from SAAF pilots.

None of those indian sytems are yet in nigeria. and how long do you think that sat info will take to reach those that need it

Augustine Again: you are NOT a real fighter pilot. you are admin staff at air force office drinking coffee, no combat skills

stop quoting 4th generation, and a system in place to hit a Roland, what system ? all the systems in Gripen is known on internet data specs, so what system ? i defeated it, radar, then what syatem ? paveway and umbani guided bombs technical data and systems are available on internet, i defeated it, so what systems are you talking about here ? did you personally build a new Gripen or Umbani ?

i said american air force most modern jets gets shot down till today and you are boasting of south africa ?

Roland combat history says it is a perfect bomb k.iller, it k.ills all bombs from the air, so all your long range high altitude bombs are useless before Roland SAM and the umbani bomb is not a missile so it is very slow, and Roland is faster many times more to shoot down the bombs many kilometers before you reach Roland

South Africa has NO long range stand -off air to surface missile to hit a nigerian Roland SAM. go back to air force training school and learn the frustrating tactics of enemy air defence, stop doing copy and paste from wikipedia data of range and speed you cannot interprete in practical battle field engagement



you are looking for Roland from 100km away and 50,000 ft above, you fail again as usual the picture below is like a Roland you can never see from long distance.

tell me another story.

[img]http://www.zmne.hu/tanszekek/ehc/konferencia/may/Image264.gif[/img]

You are a fool, what detail is knowen about the Gripen radar that you will defeat, what guidance system will you defeat

it is not a perfect bomb killer nor any thing special, it fired 8 missiles to hit 3 targets. What if we drop 9 bombs per roland even with a 100% success (witch it does not have) you still going to die


we gave you 2 long range guided bombs in SAAF service yet you still say it does not have any, hell we could just shoot the thing with a mokape from a rooifalk guided in by a recc team, drone, hawk, gripen, extra from 10km away.

Augustine Again: first you failed, because you expect that in war Roland location will be known to you.

let me help you by assuming you were lucky to get into Roland area, only by luck, say an army location.

Roland uses both radar and electro-optical targeting so when Gripen approaches it will wait for your grippen to launch any thing from your far away say distance, once its radar picks up missile or bomb launch it swithches off its radar and changes to electro optical mode targeting. and moves on its tracks to change former location.

Roland shoots down bombs and the umbani or paveway guided bombs are too slow and all the bombs will be shot down by Roland.

in real war, pilots dont just clear one area as you say, they need to know what is in that area or else you waste the expensive long range umbani or paveway bombs on a cassava farm. that is why till today, american njets get shot down in war because they want to hit specific ground targets.

in real combat, check all war history from israeli-arab war till america-iraq war, no air force jet can provide accurate ground attack on enemy forces from high altitude above 20,000 feet or long distance beyond 5km because...

....all those your long range paveway bombs cannot tell the difference between T-72 Tank, Styer APC, BTR-3U IFV, and a Roland SAM, and worse still AMX-30 Tank is exactly the same as Roland except that one is tank, other is air defence. more problens from decoys like heavy industrial bulldozers, digger/carterpillars, big Hummer 6x6 vehicles, etc...too much confusion and deliberately planted decoys by intelligent air defense Roland commanders will make the GRipen jet fail.

how will you hit a target that you cannot confirm ? you cannot hit a Roland for sure from long range, and if you just assume you do because your bomb exploded on a toyota 4runner suv that you did not see, when your rooivalk helicopters come in they will all be shot down because the Roland is still alive !

naval blockade i replied @saengine and i got banned for inserting too many heavy photos regarded as spam. i am posting now as augustine again, not agaugst.

now before you leave my classroom for breakfast, google Gripen jet, its combat radius in only 800km and even less than nigeria's older F-7jet that you insult, and it is a major weakness you south africans dont know. at speed 1200km/hr Grpen has only 45 minutes to take off, climb to 50,000 ft, travel to enemy location/target (or is the Roland close to your Gripen airbase ? if so, nigerian army is already at door step and will capture south african air force jets on ground), then Gripen use the reamining part of its 45 minutes to find target by radar, launch bomb and still travel back to base and land, all in a magical supernatural 45 minutes ?

you dont know battle field practicals, this is not copy and paste weapons data my friend ! Gripen loses ! Roland stays alive.

see photo of what air defence look like in war...hidding, and it can be even more hidden and many more armoured vehicles around it, how do you find that from 100km away aor 50,000 ft ? is Gripen jet a spirit ?

you assume a 100% success kill rate, that is foolish, what if the gripen remains and james the signal between roland or missile, what if the missile misses, how many missiles can be optical guided at the same time. These are problems you forgot.
1
That is why there are recon pods on board the gripen and hawk that have high zoom over the horzine real time search and targeting systems on them, this is not WW1

Actually a number of high altitude precision strikes took place to blind or kill enemy air defense before the CAS came in


Those same targeting pods, and they are IR so you can hide it all you want it will be seen by the all seeing eye in the sky.


do you know how far 800kms is that not the doorstep,


once again you haven showen you know nothing what so ever

Augustine Again: great answers @patriot4, nigerians are very proud of you. i could not contribute yesterday because i got banned for posting too many heavy photos inside one comment and nairaland auto anti-spam admin banned me as agaugust.

artillery guns have always been very accurate in firing from world war II without computers.

mathematical/geometric azimuth or bearings and physics projectiles theory are the secrets of artillery accuracy. these calsulate target distance versus gun muzzule velocity and a few other factors to determine angles of elevation, depression, and rotation of the gun.

azimuth calculations are done manually/analog or by computer. with a manual/analog system the man needs about 6 minutes to do it, a computer will do it in about 1 minute.

all artillery guns do not need computers each, usually it is one computer to 5 guns sharing it, so it is very wrong for the south africans to say nigerian M56 artillery has no computers, have they seen nigerian army using the guns in real war ? 5 guns need only one computer, anything more than that is a personal wish of the gun designer because generally artillery works in groups of their guns called batteries not individually.

once again well done @patriot4, good posts you made yesterday.

accuracy can be achieved with pen and paper but not has fast, this system allows the user to fire at long range accurately and quickly. This is all so increase the response time in shoot and skoot style warfare.

And then that one computer now must control all the guns, what if it breaks, or yo have 5 different high value targets, extra.

Arguing that this system is not a 1000000000% better than a pen and paper method is just messed up and shows how both of you should stop embarrassing your self

Augustine Again: .
https://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Gripen/The%20face%20of%20success_JamieHunter_440x277.jpg


Gripen Jet Vs Roland SAM air defense

Since when is the roland the target, SAAF will only need to search the a corridor and target AO, so it will not search the entire country. Actually it works both ways now, the roland can not be everywhere so there may only be 3 to 4 in the AO not all 16, so less missiles to worry about.

saengine: Arachnida II WMS

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/LAND/LAND_new/arachnida2.JPG

The Arachnida II is based on the very successful Arachnida I system, of which 800 are currently in service worldwide, with the SELEX GALILEO FIN3110 inertial navigation unit as primary sensor.Arachnida II system has Sun-Readable colour touch screens and is suitable for mounting on Self Propelled Artillery, Towed Artillery, Mounted Guns, Multiple Rocket Launchers and reconnaissance vehicles. It navigates the Gun or Launcher accurately on a map background, with or without GPS, and therefore completely eliminates any survey procedures. The system provides for full on-board autonomous ballistic calculations and for receiving fire orders via radio data link. Gun Laying can be done accurately to within 1 mil RMS, while offsets for direct firing are calculated automatically. The new system can also include the function of fully automatic gun pointing with the required upgrades to the Gun Control System.

http://denellandsystems.co.za/artillery/arachnida_II.html

I guess those 800 customers worldwide could have just come to Patriot instead. He would have done it for them on his laptop for free while watching Game of Thrones on the other tab . I don't like kicking a man when he is down, but he asked for it.

One of the users is the UK so i guess nigeria is better than them to.

agaugust: you have nothing to correct me about, trace the root of the thread conversation that made me say Gripen jet is copy of Komet jet. @andrewza said a nigerian artillery of 1998 is not modern because it was developed from design of a 1945 artillery. so i replied his sarcasm by saying every jet aircraft in the world is a copy of the 1944 Komet jet the worlds first ever jet fighter, because every other jet aircraft today is based on the same scientific principles of the 1944 jet engine, the basic laws of physics and chemistry have not changed.

by the way how did yugoslavia sell 1,500 units of M56 artillery from 1998 to 2004 including powerful nations like pakistan if the gun is a 1945 copy technology ? pakistan has a better military than south africa and the pakis dont buy old inferior weapons.

the M56 sold 1,500 units around the world, but south africa G6 sold only 145 units around the world.

you see how south africa over-rates itself in everything ? including weapons manufacturing and sales !

the M56 can trace a direct link to the M101 of WW2, it has a longer barrel and stronger breech block and recoil system that allow it to fire modern higher pressure rounds. It has no fire control, load asserter or anything of that nature that make it a modern system. It is new not modern


Did i say it was a bad gun? no i said it is not modern. the M101 is still in use in a number of countries even america. Has i said before age does not make a weapon out of date. But just like i wont call a ratal modern i wont call the m101 modern either

agaugust: other countries in africa have guns that shoot up to 60km.

you south africans have never seen real army battles, you keep making noise about G6 artillery extra 10km or so range, who told you that in real battle the enemy army will be sitting down 70km away from you to be shelling them like a F00L ?

armies move with speed and close up any gaps so as to win territory, what was the distance between aouth african army and seleka rebels in combat ? 70km ? seleka was close enough to uproot south african army with 1980's old AK-47 rifles.

And that who says the G6 is sitting still. The G6 is built for shoot a skoot with a high speed off road vehicle and good endurance it will be able to stay just out of range while in turn be able to provide counter battery fire

Seleka had more long range guns than SA in CAR with a large number of mortars, Autocannons and machine guns. Selke all so took a lot of losses while moving in to range from long rang SA weapons (107mm MLRS, 81mm and 60mm mortars) in a large fight this is scaled up. A enemy battalion will be under fire long before it ever reaches the SA lines

agaugust: all south africans have poor mathematics knowledge and very poor battlefield knowledge, i set a t_rap for y_ou in combat and you fell F00LISHLY inside my t_rap, the nigerian archer driver moves forward 10 minutes, and you F00LISHLY move south african G6 forward for 10 minutes to retaliate, you have actually reduced the G6 range by 20km, and you increase the archers range by 20km to become easier for my archer gun to h_it G6 on target because the two guns have moved closer to each other reducing the old gap by 20km !

you see why i said south africans dont knwo how to fight real war ? you are all nothing but copy and paste internet weapons commentators

south africa boasts of G6 gun with only 43 units, will that tine number win you a war ?

also countries buy 105mm guns of shorter range than 155mm because you may need to move the smaller artillery guns by aircraft to a far away battle zone accros mountains and rivers using helicopters or medium sized aircraft that can land on a short frontline rough airfield.

you see why i said all 5 of you south africans dont know one quarter of what i know about real battle field combat ?

nigerian and south africa both have about 76 units of 155mm artillery guns. google it all and dont be lazy.

i will reply your bad simulation of Gripen vs Roland tommorow, i wanted a time i can be on-line every 3 hours of that day to monitor your usual F00LISH combat tactics and teach you south africans the right way to fight a real war not internet photo and data copy paste.

depends on the direction the G6 is facing.

SA may have 43 G6s but it more than the zero archer 155mm nigeria has.

Yes you are correct and SA has a project to get a 155mm and the G7 is currently in development. It still out ranges most of the guns in nigeria

agaugust: counting nigerian artillery guns and looking for exact numbers in the armoury, refusing to accept one source, looking for more sources....what good does that do to you as a person ? wins a war for you ? wins an arguement ? increases your salary ?

do you have any other work you really do with your time apart from posting comments here on nairaland ?

What do you mean refusing one source for another. Unless proven other wise i use janes and ISS has my source. Beegel can not prove there is that many guns.


Not to day

agaugust: your information is old and out-dated, and also from ordinary internet public sources written by unknown people or civilians with poor military knowledge who think NNS ARADU is frigate because of size 125m and TYPE 056 is OPV because of size 95m. ships dont fight according to their size, they fight according to their weapons. you can only confuse yourself and not others who have a brain that works better.


Chief of Naval Staff, Vice-Admiral Dele Ezeoba NEVER called the two nigerian navy Type 056 as OPVs, he called them SHIPS nothing less, and that is the man with the highest level of information and authority about nigerian navy.

direct quote :

"Two ships currently undergoing construction in China would join the Nigerian Naval fleet before the end of 2014"

http://www.punchng.com/news/nigerias-survival-depends-on-sea-navy-chief/

Yet the order that is at the manufacturer is for a OPV. Doese it matter what a braass hat says.

agaugust: show us, post a list of all existing nigerian weapons fully recorded from IISS and JANES, post it or you become a F00L forever !

Gripen jet is actually 1890 era, the aircraft was built in 1987 and could not enter service because it failed to fly well, and now that south africa has it, you cannot maintain the problematic Gripen jet, and you put hals of your air force in a cold freezer long term storage.

Gripen jet is an over-rated 1987 product....

quote from source from the first page on top just beneath the Gripen photo on that weblink page.

Swedish Air Force JAS 39 Gripen
Role Multirole fighter
Manufacturer Saab AB/Saab Group
First flight 9 December 1988
Introduction 1 November 1997
Status In service
Primary users Swedish Air Force
South African Air Force
Czech Air Force
Hungarian Air Force
Produced 1987–present
Number built 235[1]
Unit cost US$ 40–60 million[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen


however, nigerian army Type 90 air dfence anti-aircraft gun was first seen in 1999.

The Type 90 was first revealed to the public during the 1999 National Day parade held in Beijing.

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/antiaircraft/type90towed35mm.asp

south african m_others gave birth to a new generation of internet liars and f_raudsters as we see here on nairaland.

You real are a fool are you. I fee no need to comment on the gripen issue since it has been coverd.

The type 90 on the other hand is a copy of a GDF002 AA gun from the 1980s it is not even a copy of the GDF003 that SA uses.

now everyone has seen it, you are a fake.


I am still waiting on your t craft source

Donian007: hey! hey! hey! INDIARA show us pictures of your craft, we showed you ours, lets see it, u didnt post ours so we won't post yours. So u blindly and ignorantly doubted our BTRs until we shut u up with pictures. Ur turn! OLODO!

I never doubted the BRT3 and i provided the photo.

I have posted the T craft before.

Defenceweb: I had to laugh at the part where this fool says the driver of the archer simply has to drive forward for 10 minutes to reach the same range of the G6. Hahaha....and then what if the driver of the G6 drives forward for 10 minutes after that, will your archer operator move forward by another 10? Such an idiotic comment.

Why would we want your M56 gun with 18km range when we have the G5 towed gun with 39km range? You can keep your old Soviet guns, we don't need them

Even the G7 105mm gun out ranges it.

Actually I think the G2 has a simmlare range.

agaugust:
Gripen jet is a copy of 1944 German world war II jet named Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet, it is the father of every other jet fighter existing today, so Gripen Jet too is not modern. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_163

nigerian M56 artillery is a 105mm towed howitzer but south african G6 artillery 155mm is a self propelled howitizer and they are built for different type of combat ranges, one is 105mm but the other is 155mm, built for different purposes, so you are very wrong to compare the two, a sign that your military training is poor indeed.

nigerian Archer 155mm self propelled artillery compares well to south african G6 self propelled artillery, only difference is the extra 10km range of G6, and in real combat the archer operator simply drives his vehicle forward for 10 minutes and equals the range of the G6 if any need to close up the 10km gap of shooting range difference. in all technical perfomance capability like accuracy, both guns are equal. simple fact.

weblink source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Artillery_System#Potential_and_future_operators

however, armies are not always 70km apart when the exchange artillery fire, especially when they want to capture territory, they both close in on each other to gain grounds.

back to the nigerian M56 artillery, it is a very modern gun that first came into service in 1998, the south african G6 gun is actually 10 years older! i dont know why @andrewza tells open lies about whose weapon is more modern ! south africans are fraudsters.

nigeria has 200 units of M56 artillery not 50, no way, it is 200 guns we have, and all brand new, but south africa has zero, nothing in the class of 105mm artillery, not one single piece !

weblink sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M56_Howitzer#Users
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Army


.

I know you a fool but really.

The grpine is not a dircect copy of it. Your pressues gun is a dircect copy of a 1945 gun. Nothing has changed.


I posted a pic of a G5 not a G6 how ever even the G7 a 105mm has a fire control computore.


What dose this mean. It means our troops will be able to call in fire support fastrt and the guns can respond faster and more accuret.


It is not modern. It first cam in to servise 1945. It is new but not modern.




Show me a credbil source that puts it at 200. Not the word of a simpil blogger.


I all so want to see the proof the nigeria has the archer 155mm. Not even your so loved blog does not menstion it.

patriot4: So if I get you right, all we need to do is put a computy next to the gun to call it modern !
You really think warzones are beauty salones, don't you ?
The use of the gun is governed by the laws of physics, so as far as the man using it can do the calculations, there is no need for a computer (if the guy is tired of calculating then he can always use a calculator).
This is the one thing SA military industry is good for: making unnecessary adjustments of weapons.

You do know what that fire control computer does. It is not just a glorfied computer. And all modern arty guns have somthing like it.

agaugust: who cares about your opinion ? i dont work under your command, do i ? you think a lot about how you believe people value your comments, you lost public respect long ago on nairaland.

Type 056 stealth guided missile light frigate, if you dont like it, go j_ump off the top of a skyscraper in johannesburg , your w_ife will find another h_usband

i will not do research and post south african T-craft for you, find source and lets see the aluminium old boat your navy uses for secret fishing when their admiral is not looking.

The one in china may be a corvet but nigeria is calling there's OPVs. So you should embrace what is a fact.