₦airaland Forum

NaijaPikinGidi: Thirteen (13) plus one (1) equals 14. But AndrewZa cites fifteen (15)? You guys don't seem to make it all add-up! So if three hundred (300) SELEKA men were mentioned ... who did the counting and validation of the additional five hundred (500) casualties that now make-up SA's SELEKA casualty total of exactly eight hundred (800) men? Such a well-rounded figure to my mind!!

It was just reported one of the solders in hospital died so it is now 15.

a seleka captain has come out and admitted he alone lost half of his 500 strong force. The sources have all been posted all ready

NaijaPikinGidi: Can you AndrewZa please define what a war is? No bullshitting please! Kindly define a war in simple and plain words that you and everyone else can understand. Intelligence and intellect must and should not be taken for a ride!

there are different levels a military operations, from disaster relief and humanitarian assistance up to Nuclear war though the highest reached was total war. Below that there is

state on state conventional war
limited war
civil war
counter insurgency
raids and strikes
peace support
extra


peace keeping even peace enforcement is not war

sambos994: Why would we need to start a war with a country? We're trying to help Africa not destroy it.

A narrow few. If england never went to war in 1939 all the world could have fallen. And 10 years earlier germain was a defeated shadow of itself.

A war between nation is waht a military must be ready for. The primary mission of any military is to fight a war vs a another nation. Peace keep and conventional war are not on the same level one will not ready you for the other.

sambos994: Really? Sierra Leone, Liberia, Mali, Somalia, Congo Crisis in '64, Peacekeeping in Lebanon, Biafra Civil War (if that counts)

So no wars vs a real modern army.

NaijaPikinGidi: AndrewZA, I think you should take note of the countries, I have mentioned with the exception of Cote d'ivoire and Togo! I am amazed that you'd ask such a question to which answers have been sufficiently provided (several times) on this thread. Please, refer to the countries I mentioned above. Don't start your known antics with me please.

Do you under stand a real war, has nigeria ever had there command and control system shut down by hostile EW operations. Somthing SA is well trained in doing. Has nigeria ever fought a combined arms battle where both side used combinded arms. Has it ever had to fight a real modern army not some rebel force.

NaijaPikinGidi: The lack of knowledge and the unwillingness to embrace new knowledge remains a problem for most South Africans posting on this thread. Having monitored the arguments and counter arguments here for over two months now, I am forced to throw my hat into the ring ... not to insult or trade abuses and falsehoods but to force people to be a lot more empirical and objective with their views and opinions. Such willful and poor show of intellect by most (if not all) South African debaters here, has so far been amusing and irritating at the same time.

Facts are stubborn and will never go away no matter the amount of lies, propaganda and coordinated media bias regarding the true status and capabilities of the Nigerian Military forces. The true strength of a warrior can be very well guaged by the number of recent battles and fights he has encountered and won convincingly. A war-tested General and his troops are a more credible proposition to me than an arm-chair General and troops who have not been in a recent battle even with the "best" weaponry and military arsenals. Liberia, Sierra Leone, Cote d'ivoire, Mali, and even Togo bear the mark of Nigeria's military efforts in Africa to restore peace and democratic rule in the past 10 - 15 years. Ask questions about these efforts and you'll find answers of shared valour and commitment to pan-African peace and socio-economic progress through strength as a Nation and our connectedness as African people.

Like it or not these are facts that can never be wished away by South Africa or any other country on the face of planet earth! To the South African debaters (AndrewZa, FigterPilot, SAEngine, DefenceWeb, ZetDee, and the others who left recently out of exhaustion) I'd advise that you drop the irrelevancies in your arguments and employ your intellect where necessary by citing reliable and sources and proofs that can withstand the counter sources and positions that Agaugust, Henry120, HomeRac7, Patriot4, All4Naija, Fynline, SoulDust, LtShangy, Sambos994, and many others have provided. That is the mark of intelligent debating.

Going forward, I will gladly challenge any ignorant posts from South Africa with factually superior arguments backed by impeccable citations and sources. My global experiences and professional background at this point is not relevant, but I have the "access code" to South African information that should help educate you South African debaters. So many people perish for lack of knowledge. And so far, South Africa's cummulative knowledge of Nigeria and the rest of Africa is so jaundiced!

Until proven otherwise, an unknown quantity "x" will always equal zero.

What real war has nigeria ever fought in?

Augustine Again: .....
do you know the great size of west african EEZ waters from nigeria to mauritania ? it is about 1.2 million kilometres square, so you want nigeria alone to patrol that size of water ? and nigeria is not expected to be moving its navy into the other 10 countries territorial waters. somalia waters piracy reduced because the world's super power navies are there, and they need no permission, somalia is a half dead nation. many navy's warships from america, china, asia, europe/NATO are all patrolling the somali waters against pirates. use common sense to calculate the rest...i dont need to
school you like a 5 year old boy.

piracy is a crime for money making and it will never fully stop, you can only reduce it like drug trafficking and prostitution. simple thinking.

south african navy will be a fool to use its expensive Valour frigates to chase pirates around west african EEZ waters of 1.2 million km/sq, and the continental shelf is shallow waters and NNS Aradu frigate ran aground chasing pirates there in 1987. you will just waste and damage your valour frigates, or you want to use your type 209 submarine to chase pirates and run aground like it did before and got damaged ? do you know the money cost of sailing those naval platforms all the way from south africa to nigeria and keep them at sea away from home for many months ? you are just a copy and paste military 'journalist' on nairaland. you dont know how weapons are deployed in reality

only need to guard the lines of communication and your coast line.

running aground was not due to chasing pirates. The valour carries 4 seaboats on anti piracy ops, 2 of them long range type not to mention a lynxy. Evene NN have sea boats and agusta 109s. May the charts are out of date or the OC tried his luck.

homerac7: Although Nigeria contributed much to liberate South Africa from the stranglehold of apartheid and, thereafter, threw her economic doors wide open for South African investors and goods, these actions have not stopped a low estimation of her citizens by South Africans, the South African High Commissioner to Nigeria, Kingsley Mamabola, said on Tuesday, in Abuja, at a meeting with the minister of interior, Emmanuel Ihenachor.

Answering a question from NEXT at the meeting planned to explore ways of broadening the existing bilateral relationship between both countries, Mr. Mamabolo gave reasons for the increasing hostilities and physical attacks launched against Nigerians in South Africa.

According to him, the regard for Nigerians in South Africa is very low because the criminal activities of a few Nigerian citizens there are the most visible things to the hosts. He denied, however, any insinuation of government backing for the attacks, insisting that a lot of effort was being made to offer Nigerians in South Africa more protection under the law.

“There is a lot that needs to be done about the perception of South Africans about Nigerians. The perception South Africans have about Nigerians is not good at all. Those Nigerians of a very tiny percentage - I will say just about one percent - engage in crimes that are generally seen by all and which overshadow the good works of the majority of Nigerians.

“South Africa is a law abiding society. There is law and order in our country. There is no lawlessness. South Africans as a whole fight for human rights in general. So, it is not true that the government is not doing anything on the situation. It is only in the newspapers that you see that (the hostility against Nigerians),” Mr. Mamabola said.

Responding, Mr. Ihenachor openly refuted a tag of ‘haven of piracy’ and related criminal activities wrongly placed on Nigeria in the global maritime industry.

Poor perception

The minister denounced the poor perception and challenged promoting the perception to either show evidence of the high activities of pirates in Nigeria or stop the image smear.

“I remember that he said that when he (Mr. Mamabolo) was posted here (to Nigeria), people were saying: ‘why are they punishing you? Why are they sending you here?’

“Now, he is enjoying Nigeria. It is an issue of perception,” the Nigerian minister said.

“If you read the papers and go on the Internet, you will never want to come to Nigeria because they say Nigeria is the second piracy capital in the whole world. This is untrue. I, as a master mariner, I have always been saying that I have not seen even one pirate in Nigeria. I do not know where those reports are coming from. If you report that Nigeria is a piracy nation, then there is a tendency that insurance on all the goods coming to Nigeria will rise,” Mr. Ihenachor said.

Mr. Mamabolo promised to look into the case of the deportation of a Nigerian from South Africa for non-possession of yellow card, with a view to preventing a future occurrence.

Apart from immigration issues, other areas the FG is planning to explore through the meeting with the South African government include prison management and maritime enterprise.

The South African government says it hopes to learn from Nigeria how it has successfully engaged in international peacekeeping for years now, as well as how it has effectively managed the conflicts of its federating units to form unity in diversity.

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/5614003-147/south_african_envoy_explains_hostility_to.csp

link not working

Augustine Again: ..

was your south african political party on ground right inside the battle zone of the seleka rebels vs south african army fire fight ? even your south african army ran away for their lives, so which one of you south africans actually counted the number of dead seleka rebels ? simple common sense...tell us the name the person that did the counting of the dead seleka rebels on the bloody battlefield where soweto's soldiers ran away.

"General Hassan Ahmat, commander of the 558-strong Brigade Rouge, said in Bangui this week that he and his seleka rebel men had killed at least 36 South African soldiers and captured 46, releasing them soon afterwards."

weblink source http://www.dispatch.co.za/rebels-claim-more-sa-soldiers-died-in-car/

Those numbers have been disproved again again. Only 15 SANDF soldiers died. SA does not hide there deaths, Not even during apartheid where losses hinden. So please stop you pathetic BS. We not fools like you.

Henry120: The nigeria coast line, though not as large as south africa's, is very large. To the claim that nigerian pirates launch attacks off the coast of ivory coast or ghana or togo from nigeria and forth, is not only laughable, but stu*pid as well.

Look at the map, it is impossible to make a claim like that, even if you are writing your article/report directly from intel. gotten from the white house or pentagon.

For attacks of the coast of benin or nigeria, it is easy for these miscreants to get away as there are many creeks, creeks which equal to the size of both belgium and holland combined.

That been said the navy and amphibious forces of the nigeria army have been largely successful in arresting or pushing away these pirates off the coast of nigeria. The nigeria navy also have 5 medium sized patrol crafts and 1 Augusta helicopter stationed in benin republic to assist the benin republic navy.

The attacks of nigeria have fallen drastically, same thing for benin republic, un-like what the defenceweb article is suggesting.

denial is a bad think. Since last year i mentioned the surge in west coast attacks.Pirates have long reach, somali pirates have attack ships has far down south has mozambique. Does not change the source. Same in nigeria. Nigerian pirates and organized crime are the main source of the problem. They no longer even have ships in nigeria(witch they do and they use them to target ship at anchor)but the money ends up in nigeria. It actually a police problem. The pirates are expandable and easy to replace. It is sort of like our poaching problem. The actually poachers are muscle the real enemy dose not even carry a gun or even need to ever SA(and the last one that did got a 40 year prison sentence.

Best way to stop piracy,find and cut of the head, gain control of there save harbours and control the flow of money. normally all of them are located in one point.

sambos994: Are you dyslexic?(no insults intended)

yes non taken

agaugust: ..







the source quoted above by @andrewza says the pirates are moving away from nigerian waters to ivory coast, ghana etc. it does NOT report any piracy attack in nigerian coast in that article. i hope you can read english language and not only afrikaans/dutch/zulu. that story is the silent proof that nigerian navy is flushing pirates down the toilet hole like s.hit in nigerian waters, so they run away to other countries.



west african coast piracy does NOT mean nigerian coast, it includes 10 other countries, Benin, Togo, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Senegal, Mauritania. dont mix them all up, they are NOT nigeria.

nigerian navy has the best and largest anti-piracy small boat force in the whole world, south african navy has one of the smallest and outdated

does an ant help a elephant to fight ?


pirates are now running away from nigerian waters

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/navy-warns-pirates-to-keep-off-nigeria-s-maritime-area/148933/

http://beegeagle./2011/09/22/how-the-nigerian-navy-maritime-guard-commandnimasapartnership-reduced-pirate-attacks/

https://www.israel-shipyards.com/images/p-naval-002.jpg

The pirates launch there attacks from nigeria and return from nigeria. Not all east coast attacks happen of the coast of somalia.

Henry120: Lol, and SA holds the key to the solution of the problem right?

Nigeria is the key only they need help finding the door, in theroy nigeria should not have a piarcy problom, there navy is perfect for fighting it, lots of small patrol boats and a small coast line. SAN does have a plan to patrol the west coast but only up till angoala.

agaugust: http://www.indiandefence.com/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/18077-india-help-boost-nigeria%92s-air-defences.html

http://twocircles.net/2012may17/india_help_boost_nigerias_air_defences.html

http://beegeagle./2013/03/07/india-to-help-nigeria-modernise-her-air-defences-spotlight-on-the-indian-made-akash-medium-range-area-defence-missile-system/

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/36402-india-help-boost-nigeria-s-air-defences.html

the whole world is publishing the fact that nigeria is buying very modern new air defence systems from india, and everybody knows it is Akash SAM anti-aircraft missiles. if fear catches you, go hide your south african air force 6 Grippen jets in a refrigerator because you already have 12 of them in a deep freezer, and another 8 in a warehouse poor condition that cannot fly safely.

[size=16pt]nigerian army will shoot down the whole of south african air force in 5 minutes.
[/size]
https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8188/579u0190750041.jpg

non in serves, and by the time they are SAAF may get it,s Stand off missiel

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30671:insight-nigerian-pirate-gangs-extend-reach-off-west-africa&catid=108:maritime-security&Itemid=233

A report on the rise of west african piracy

@saengine just ignore agaugust he is a fool

souldust: welcome back. Where did you go and what did you do while you were away

was just busy, cant say with what but it was work related

i am back, what i miss

agaugust: ...because you seem not to understand that a navy that paid for 4 to 6 stealth warships with anti-submarine weapons on board will start preparing itself for anti-submarine war games even before the new warships arrive. you think nigerian admirals are fools ?

we are doing submarine training with pakistani navy before our new anti-submarine warships arrive, so when the ships arrive you think nigerian navy admirals will go to sleep ?

nigeria already knows the secrets of submarine warfare from pakistan and they too want to ordered for the same chinese navy Type 056 light frigate like nigeria.

your navy officers in south africa have been deceiving you that your navy rules africa because you have submarines, keep on dreaming while other powerful african navies are building very modern anti-submarine capabilities. keep dreaming and let your pretoria officers deceive you. one day your navy will get a shock like your army got with seleka rebels.

you think your enemies or rivals are fools ?

NN has only payed for 2 95m OPVs that may or may not be fited with torpedos. But here is the thing. If a surface ship only has torpedos to fight a Sub it is at a massive disadvanteg. Since the sub can shoot back and the sub can remain hidden. This gives the Sub the advantiage of choosing when to attack. Stealth means nothing for a Sub who hunts through sound, the very movent through water makes sound. Of cours a ship can use active sonar but that would give away it's postion. The range at what you can hear sonar is greater than the range at witch it can detect somthing. Same goes for radar.


Nigeria once to buy a sub. That why they traing in pakstan. Have you not seen the 2020 vission for the NN. Even more nigeria current ships have never operated with a sub. Even more I am not impressed by pakstians Anti sub warfare program they worse than india and india could not pick up our (ype 209 in a wargame even though it was shadowing there fleet the entire time.


What african countries are building ASW asserts. No sub shara nastion has any real ASW sytem and only those in the north have any. Most of it is legacy sytems from the cold war. And our army killed over 500 rebels for the loss of only 14 that very good odds in my books.


What rivals. You think NN is a rival for us. You no more a rival than a bug is a rival to a boot. SAN is not even trying. We have no threats. Unlike nigeria where we can messure falures. Nigeria is becoming the next pirat alley. Your pressures 300 boats can not stop thieves robing ships in your waters.

agaugust: ...and your wrong information that F-15 and F-16 jets in iraq war were not shot doen by AAA guns....try correct that wrong info. i have all the weblinks to prove me right, but i dont want to repeat old posts.

Did I say that non where shot down. I gave a numbers of them shot down and by what. In all only a few where lost.

agaugust: [size=16pt]Nigerian Navy Submarine Training In Pakistan

http://beegeagle./2012/02/16/recap-nigerian-navy-personnel-in-pakistan-for-submarine-training/

sorry @andrewza, you are lost ! you think only your navy admirals know how to deal with submarines ? you lost man ![/size]

other african navies like algeria, egypt and nigeria are a big threat to south africa before your project biro gets any money


https://www.opinion-maker.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/agosta2_pns_saad.jpg

You seem not to understand what no Fleet work with a sub, no real ASW assert and no ASW training with there ships.

agaugust: envy, hahahah . you want south africa to be the only country in africa with a strong navy ? sorry your dream has failed



nigerian navy has 8 Augusta AW109 helicopters already, so we dont need that type of modular fit and remove ASWplatform, nigeria is going straight for real anti-submarine helicopters, 12 fennec from france to hunt and destroy all your south african navy submarines and sink them to sea bottom for every.

Envy what. I am just pointing out facts.



The A109 that NN use are not ASW or even martime search. They are martime transport. Yes sure you can buy sytems to put on them to creat a ASW helicopter but NN has not. NN has never conducted fleet work with a SUB yet you want to tell me it has a ASW caperbeilty.

all4naija: Can you explain better? I am not that good with military hardware and other equipment.

A ship hull is only a fracstion of what makes a warship. Internall sytems count far more than a hull.

all4naija: Images, please. So, that we can differentiate both military boats.

A hull is a hull.

agaugust: Its nothing new. Most new generation American graduates have certificates and certification in at least two different fields, that's the general principle about American educational system.

Some universities here no longer accept any student to study medicine and surgery unless he first gets BSc degree in a different profession.

@fighter pilot, you and I need to 'exchange fire. ' @Andrewza and @Snydergp have run out of ammunition, all they do now is to post lies and insults when I prove them wrong. Lets try you next and see how much truth you will tell. Lol

Most people stuidie in more than one field it is common practice, you our ever have not studied any military related subjects.

What lies, you keep saying that but when i ask to you to pint them out you ignore me. You how ever are a mmaster at misinformation and have been found out a number of times.

agaugust: South Africans, your nightmare has just started. Nigerian navy is buying 4 to 6 Frigates and you cannot change it. Do I need to repeat old posts ? They are equipped to stop your valour frigates.

To help your Afrikaans polluted English language, go back and read the web link sources I gave you in february/march read again the correct meanings of Frigate, Corvette, and OPV. I am your teacher here, you are my boys.

Fear of Nigerian navy new stealth frigates and anti-submarine helicopters will take away your sleep every night. You are in trouble, rainbow nation Soweto republic

Insulting me or posting lies won't help you, the Nigerian navy new stealth frigate warships web link sources and photos have been repeated on this forum too many times. The records k.illed your falsehood

They buying OPVs not frigates, this is what the order from NN is for, only you are calling a OPV a frigate. Any case SA is building 6 opv/corvettes and may be even 4 frigates.


What ASW helicopter, just because a helicopter can be a ASW does not mean it is. Nigeria has no real ASW ability face facts and live with it.

https://www.navy.mil.za/aboutus/history/images/i041020_sas_drakensberg.jpg
[img]http://www.iol.co.za/polopoly_fs/st-drakensberg-3-done-1.1283233!/image/86954447.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_300/86954447.jpg[/img]

sithwell: Oh, but that's only half a story. Augustine is also "good with sources"

@Augugust, show Andrew how good you are with sources and send that link about Eritrean women having a gene that causes them to be born soldiers. The stuff in their chromosomes that you spoke about yesterday.

He is not good with sources and is a master at missinfomastion. He still try to get us to think the cobra in Nigeria have AGMs.

He knows nothing beyond what you tube has showed him.

sithwell: Agaugust is an accountant, with an American MBA. But that's not all. He also works as a military researcher in the United States of America.

Tell them Augustine!

So he dose the books that is all. He just a civilian who thinks he knows what goes on.

all4naija: What is the feverish condition for? Why the whimper? You can keep hyperventilating over the new frigates Nigeria is getting soon it is not going to stop us from having them. They will be useful for protection against pirates as the Gulf of Guinea is becoming one of the regions prone to piracy.

Please, spare us this your bragging it is doing you no good. What has the mention of icebreaker got to do with this topic than to make your comment looks out of place? Nigeria is militarily stronger than SA's. That is a complete fact!

They not frigates they OPVs

agaugust: @snydergp, your argument with @all4naija...israel helped south africa build nuclear technology in arpatheid times, and you paid many millions of dollars to israel for it. the whole world knows this fact, newspapaers published it those years back.

@andrewza, olifant tank is british centurion tank they sold to south africa, israel helped you to upgrade it, and BAE systems also helped you upragde the tanks as a british company with factory branch in south africa.

if michael jackson changes his nose, hair, and bleach his skin, does that mean he is no longer a black man ?

olifant tanks of south africa is British made and imported by origin. simple fact.

weblink source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_tank


original centurion tank
https://www.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/photo_galleries/regular_galleries/1313-hottest-teen-idols-ever/photos/1354568421_michael-jackson-560.jpg

upgraded olifant tank
https://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/J/Michael-Jackson-38211-1-402.jpg

Ever post makes this cliam of your s that you work in the defens idustry more and more sketchy.


The current moddel SA80A2 rifel was made by HK. Is it germain or britsh

I have mentsion load of other countries that use foorghin sytems and componts.

BAE land sytem OMC is a south african branch. Run by south africans in south africa.

agaugust: your south african waters has no valuable mineral wealth to attract sea pirates...only fish you have there.
sea pirates dare and do risk facing american and chinese navy in the horn of africa due to the great shipping of global businesses on waters around the gulf region.

if you have value, thieves will take risk and come steal from you...even if you are armed.

i sank that your blue water south navy to sea bottom during simulation of naval blockade of nigeria waters on page 236. if south african navy dares nigerian territorial waters, we will sink all your warships....and south africa will have no navy anymore


top ranking african navies are re-arming powerfully to rebuild their blue or green water forces.

Egypt: 2 Type 209 submarines

Algeria: 2 Valour class stealth frigates

Nigeria: 4 to 6 stealth frigates and FFL with extra anti-submarine capabilities, and 12 Fennec attack/anti-submarine

helicopters


nigerian navy new pipav stealth frigates copy of russian tiger class. 2 to 4 ships on order

https://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/Todliches/naval%20craft/f146.jpg

That just shows you a fool. SA is classed has a island econmy. Many ships use the cape rout has a sea transit point. SA has the largest port oprstion of any african country.


No you did not. You only showed your incopantianc.


You do know egypt and algeria are not in sub-shara arfica.

Nigeria has only got a order for 2 (TWO) chinness OPV's (OPVS) no frigates or any thing else.

all4naija: We budgeted $3.7 billion for 2012, which was ahead of SA $3.5 billion.

Go Nigeria!

And this sa spent close to 5 billion

Not to menstion that list posted says other wise. SA all so has a much smaller Defense force and has the highest spending in relashinship to it's size.