₦airaland Forum

Do you know tha there are sensible people reading this post who are convinced that you are truly clueless and most likely a retard who cannot digest simple information if you still think you don’t have an answer for your question in all the epistles I have written in my reply.. Of course you have no response to my reply and that’s why you cannot pick just ONE point from there to debate, and you are still moaning about diversion tactic. Who is diverting here, who is afraid of debating his Bible but you. I just have a parting word for you, try to [/b]get your facts right and read widely before you come to public forum to spew hatred and insults . If you try to project yourself as knowledgeable about things you have no clue , people like me will call you out and expose you for the truly ignoramus you are.

If you have the gut and confident about your Bible let’s talk about it, otherwise shoo off from here because only intelligent and sincere people should come here to debate. I have condoned you so far because Allah instructed Muslims to

“[b]Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided” (Q6:125)


Let that be a guide to you that you cannot win any soul for Christ when you insult and abuse people’s religion. Have a nice Jumah and weekend in advance

Antilslaam:
We understand your diversion tactic, it won't work here. This is the question you must deal with and stop ranting

Okay, devilsadvocate and antiIslam I know you are actually trying to dodge talking about your Bible but will oblige you once more with the explanations I have given you before because I am assuming antiislam might have missed my previous submission to advocate. Here it goes

First is to show you from the Quran that Muslims do NOT worship the moon or sun as follows
"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him you wish to serve" (Q41:37)

Another example for you is when Ibrahim the son of Prophet Muhammad died and incidentally it coincided with an eclipse of the sun. The people started a rumour that Allah was commiserating with Prophet Muhammad. When he heard this he famously said in one narration:
“ the sun and the moon do not eclipse because of the death of someone from the people but they are two signs from among the signs of Allah, when you witness them eclipse stand up and offer prayer” (Bukhari Hadith 152)[i][/i]

This narration is what is called Mutawaatil because it is narrated by so many companions and recorded in so many books of ahadiths. Unless you have any verse from the Quran of narrations from the hadith that proves that muslims worship the sun or the moon then this should shut you up with your ridiculous claim. It is even forbidden to offer any prayer whenever the sun is rising so as not to give the impression of worshipping the sun as the practice of Zoroastrians


As for the crescent sign, it was never adopted during the time of Prophet Muhammad or the four righteous caliphs after him or the whole Umayyad Caliph that followed in succession for centuries. After all the doctrine of a religion must have been established in the lifetime of the Prophet of that religion, unlike in Christianity where everything you hold as your doctrine were unknown to Jesus and even his own appointed apostles but were later day formulations of Paul the Impostor. If the crescent was meant to have been adopted from pagan sources because Islam is from paganism, then the crescent sign should not have waited for centuries to surface and would have been part of the signs of the religion. What then is the origin of the crescent? The first observed use of it was during the time of the Ottoman. They conquered so many castles and forts from the Byzantine back then which were adorned with the cross and naturally they replaced all of these crosses with the crescent which was already an insignia of the Ottoman on their flags. Muslims do not have anything against this bidiah (innovation) because it does not have anything to do with the creed of Islam. It is a mundane thing and actually comes across as a sign to identify a mosque with, especially in the areas of the Middle east like Syria, Lebanon, Jordan with so many churches and Jewish synagogues. You can say why do the Muslims and Christians also have their calendar because calendars were first used by the Egyptians who were idol worshippers. Calendar is a means of time reckoning just like signs and insignia are means of identity and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the origin.

Now if you insist that the crescent is a sign of idolatry, then I put it to you also that the cross is a sign of paganism, because it was first adopted by Coptic Christians from the old Egyptian pagan symbol called Ankh. Whoever is hung on a cross is ACCURSED of God and his body defiles the land, so don't tell me the cross symbolises Jesus dying for your sins

Your Trinity doctrine is a not original but a copy of older Egyptian, Babylonian , Nordic mythologies and so is your virgin birth creed. Your Easter and Christmas celebrations were stolen from ancient Pagans of Rome. Therefore we can surmise that your religion of Christianity as you practice is today is an adaptation of pagan doctrines.

There is your answer, make of it whatever you like it is up to you, but if you are confident about your Bible, lets talk about it or keep your mouth shut forever

Antilslaam:
We should talk about Bible when you've not answer the question before you. Shey na Alfa onijalabilu taught you diversion kewu tactics?

Bobo be a good ẹrú, answer that simple question jare

You have continuously confirmed that you really have nothing concrete to talk about and all you can do is to be evasive. I have given you answers to your question many times over and you do not have to accept it that is how it works with sensible discussions, but since you know you can not survive a proper discussion beyond the gibberish you have been regurgitating then your best bet is to dodge talking about your book of "god".


Maybe you can start with a very simple one, why your "inspired" gospel writer decided to invent two completely different genealogies for someone with no human father, who was actually fathered by the "holy" spirit when it OVERPOWERED Mary. And dont even try and give the senseless explanation of one of the two belonging to Mary because nowhere is Mary mentioned in the two genealogies unless Mary and Joseph were siblings because both genealogies were traced to Joseph. Come on explain to us and do not dodge

advocatejare:
Why haven’t answered this:
How did crescent moon get to the top of the minarets of your holiest mosques if your Allah is not a pagan moon god? Or was Allah so powerless to have allowed Othman empire to use moon to represent him

Answer it and we will continue!

Anitislaam, try to exert your thinking faculty, be a good boy read my previous responses to your fellow dodger called advocatejare and tell me what further answer you want. You lot have nothing to offer by way of sensible and scholarly discussion with presentable facts and your best tactic is to be evasive. I challenge you also if you have confidence in your knowledge lets talk about your Bible don't deflect by asking me for an answer you would not accept. Mind you I am happy to be a slave of Allah the same your Lord and Saviour was

“The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus” (Acts 3:13).

Antilslaam:
Baatunde be a good ẹrú, the above question shouldn't be hard for allah and Muhammad to answer through you. Dakun answer the question lobatan

You have not understood this guy's strategy. He thinks by regurgitating and rambling on about the so called facts which he has been reading in the books of AntiIslam orientalists he can avoid talking about his fake book of God called the Bible, Thats why he keeps ranting about the same things over and over again.

gaskiyamagana:
Nonsense. You can not pollute Islam with fallacy fiction and FALSEHOOD with which Christianity is founded.

You think you are playing smart, I have given you the answer several times but it appears you can only process what you have programmed in your mind. I have given you clear evidence from Quran forbidding moon or sun worship and explain how the crescent sign came to be adopted since the Ottoman time and how it has nothing to do with the creed of Islam. I have also shown you how the symbol of your own religion has evolved from pagan insignia and it is funny how you think you can divert away from that fact. Whatever you chose to believe thereafter is your own problem.

Now can we discuss the fake books of "God" that you call the Bible?

advocatejare:
Why haven’t answered this:
How did crescent moon get to the top of the minarets of your holiest mosques if your Allah is not a pagan moon god? Or was Allah so powerless to have allowed Othman empire to use moon to represent him

Answer it and we will continue!

And the mods on this forum allows this kind of images here and yet they will be deleting other less offensive posts everywhere!

Goodlady:
Polygamy is a recipe for many problems.
Mistake of Abraham with Haggai bred janjaweêds the whole world is nursing till today.

The same way the Cross which is adopted from Egyptian paganism gets to be present in your churches did your "god" not know that some pagans have bee using these signs of the cross centuries before christianity, why did he chose or allow your churches to be adorned with pagan sign of the cross moreso when a crucified person is supposed to be ACCURSED ? Anyway your response shows the shallowness of your knowledge if you keep mouthing the same thing over and over.

"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve" (Q41:37) There is your proof that Muslims don't worship the sun or the moon

Is it Muslims that bow down in front of and pray to the statues of Jesus and Mary when your Bible clearly forbid you from creating such statues in the first place? NO it is you Christians

Is it Muslims that have adopted old pagan mythologies into their doctrine, like Easter , Christmas, Trinity, Virgin birth, atonement with blood and human sacrifice? NO it is the Christians. Who therefore worships a pagan god if not Christians. Can you prove the dogma of Easter , Christmas, trinity, virgin birth from your Bible, if yes go ahead

I have challenged you about the unreliability of the accounts of the so called inspired writers of your Bible about the accounts of the supposed crucifiction of your 'god' you have stylishly dodged that. If you want i can provide you the list of such contradictions and inconsistencies.

advocatejare:
How did crescent moon get to the top of the minarets of your holiest mosques if your Allah is not a pagan moon god? Or was Allah so powerless to have allowed Othman empire to use moon to represent him?

It is difficult having a sensible conversation with your likes because you cannot discuss with facts but conjectures and your hatred of Islam will never win you any soul for Christ because you have nothing to present and a disgusting attitude to scholarly discussions. When presented with facts you term it ‘ranting’ or ‘gibberish’ In any case I have made it clear to you via Quran that Muslims don’t worship the sun or the moon and the Prophet never adopted the crescent as a symbol of Islam, on the other hand you have adopted a symbol of Egyptian paganism and God’s curse and you are boasting about it. He who is hanged in the cross is Accursed of God says your Bible. I am also saying you adopted the cross from pagan ideologies same way as you have adopted the Trinity, Easter and Christmas celebration, so deal with that

You said Jesus died on the cross for you and yet your supposedly inspired gospel writers could not even agree on basic details about the supposed crucifiction. Even your Bible is full of contradictory statements credited to Jesus about his supposed status and mission on earth. Maybe you are happy to discuss that also.

advocatejare:
You can rant as you like but the fact is your holiest mosque has crescent moon on it because your god is a pagan moon good


Jesus was crucified and his death brought redemption to humanity which the demon-possessed Muhammad denied and passed it down to you!

So we Christians know that Christ died on the cross, and anytime we see the cross, we remember his death and sacrifice and that is why we use it as symbol of our religion cos there is no better sacrifice than someone dying for you!

But you on the other hand, you use the crescent moon cos your god is a moon god or why do you use crescent moon as the symbol of Islam! Tell us

I don’t know if I am talking to an AI or HI ( human intelligence) because it appears you have been programmed to keep repeating the same thing. What have I denied here? Crescent was never part of Islam from the beginning and if you have the evidence that it was show us,simple. And I said it’s adoption has nothing to do with the aqeedah (belief) of Islam because for instance you will never see anyone praying to a crescent statue or hold a crescent figurine when praying, it’s a mundane thing and so there is no problem with that. So what if a mosque has crescent on it……I have mistakenly entered a Sikh Gurdwara before thinking it was a mosque. If only that temple has a the Khandah symbol of the Sikh engraved on the gate perhaps I won’t mistake it for a mosque.

Why don’t you answer the claim that the cross which is a symbol of Christianity also resembles the pagan symbols of Ankh or even the Totem pole both of whose existence are much older than Christianity


Mundane: of this earthly world rather than a heavenly or spiritual one.

advocatejare:
Dey deny the obvious, the minarets of your so-called holiest mosque have crescent moon at their top

It seems you did not read the second part of my submission about crescent as a symbol of Islam. Let me just recap. During the time of Prophet Muhammad and the righteous caliph and even the Umayyad caliphate there was nothing like the crescent as a symbol of Islam and if you have the proof that there was please show us.

The earliest observed adoption of the crescent dated back to the Ottomans whose symbol is actually the Crescent and it was thought that when they conquered castles and palaces of the Byzantine adorned with crosses the Ottomans decided to replace those with their own crescent and thus started the adoption of the crescent. Now you may not find any FATWA against it because although it’s a bid’ah (innovation) it has nothing to do with the creeds and doctrine of religion because it’s a mundane affair. To make it clearer for you Muslims noe celebrate as Eid the birthday of the Prophet of which we now have an holiday in Nigeria. This is bid’ah that has been condemned by scholars because it’s just copying the Christians and their dubious Christmas when the Prophet has made it clear that there are only two EID in Islam.

Now if your problem is that the crescent was adopted from pagan symbol then same cam be said for you cross which evolved from the Ankh symbol of the ancient Egyptian pagans as I have explained in my previous post

advocatejare:
Your task is simple, you don’t need all these gibberish to try and confuse people just show us any fatwa against use of crescent moon and star as the symbol of Islam

At last Nairaland allowed me to comment after over 48 hours. Nevertheless, thanks for your response I shall definitely play with my mates as suggested. You have actually confirmed my assertion that you really have no substance to debate but insults. Ire o!

quote author=Enemyofpeace post=129917681]you've been noticed. Now go and play with your mates[/quote]

Since people are obsessed with symbols let us ask what is the origin of the cross as a symbol of Christianity, is it because of the supposed death of Jesus on the Cross, no it cannot be because "his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God; that thou defile not thy land which Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance" (Deut 21:23). However the Ankh later adapted by Coptic Christian as the Crux Ansata is an Egyptian symbol predating Christianity by a millennium and used to symbolize life. You will find the Ankh in most Egyptian hieroglyphics being held by the people the same way a typical christian exorcist hold the cross. What an influence the old religions and mythologies have had on present day christianity!

If an IFA worshipper calls on Olodumare and a Christian prays that " Edumare gba wa o" ( meaning edumare save us) would you say the Christian is ion the same category as the IFA guy. Allah is the name of the Almighty and even pagans knew him by that name so what is the problem. Even commentators of your Bible like DD Schofield in his commentary of the AV alluded to the similarity between Allah and El'lah which is a dimnutive of the Hebrew word for God.

As for the Kaaba, you can question whether Abraham built it or not because of the limited information in your books. What is not in doubt however is that Abraham was widely traveled and was in Egypt and then in Palestine. Now check you current world map and see if it is impossible to have passed the Arabian pennisula in between this journeys. OF course the Kaaba was corrupted with pagan worship long after Abraham and that was why Prophet Muhammad was raised to clear if of idolatry

Now back to your Christianity:

1. the idea of a divine logos propounded in John 1:1 is a copy of the ideas of a Jewish Philosopher called Philo of Alexandria who lived decades before the book of John was written.

2. Your doctrine of Trinity is adopted from pagan ideas which are centuries older than the advent of Jesus and was hotly opposed by the Unitarians who unfortunately were not in favour with the authorities back then. The Nicean Creed overseen by formery pagan Emperor Constantine formally ratified the Trinity as an official doctrine of the church. The Hindus have in centuries before Christianity believe in the Holy Trinity, where Brahma is the Creator and Supreme Heavenly Father (Param Pita) of the Universe, Vishnu (ParBrahman)is the Son and ever changing Avatar(reincarnation) of God, Shiva (Param Atma or Parmatma) is the Holy Spirit or Supreme Soul. I can provide you multiple other examples from Greek , Persian, Egyptian, Nordic histories which are much older than Christianity, where there are plenty examples of Trinity of three deities. This similarity to your own Trinity is not a coincidence and therefore your believe rank on the same pedestal as those of Hindus, whatever name you will call them. You can therefore see which religion has been influenced by paganism instead.

3.Influence of paganism in your religion is not limited to Trinity, the concept of Easter and Christmas all arose from pagan practices

https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-pagan-roots-of-christmas

https://www.history.co.uk/articles/the-pagan-roots-of-easter

I am amazed at the level of ignorance of you people about even your own religion, nevertheless educate you we shall, that is if you have the capability to be educated. First I will quote you the verses from the Quran below and you will tell me if they were written or dictated by Shaytaan

[2:34] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
[2:168] O men! Eat the lawful and good things out of what is in the earth, and do not follow the footsteps of the Shaitan; surely he is your open enemy.
[2:169] He only enjoins you evil and indecency, and that you may speak against Allah what you do not know
[2:208] O you who believe! enter into submission one and all and do not follow the footsteps of Shaitan; surely he is your open enemy.
[2:268] Shaitan threatens you with poverty and enjoins you to be niggardly, and Allah promises you forgiveness from Himself and abundance; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
[4:117] They do not call besides Him on anything but idols, and they do not call on anything but a rebellious Shaitan.
[4:118] Allah has cursed him; and he said: Most certainly I will take of Thy servants an appointed portion:
[4:119] And most certainly I will lead them astray and excite in them vain desires, and bid them so that they shall slit the ears of the cattle, and most certainly I will bid them so that they shall alter Allah's creation; and whoever takes the Shaitan for a guardian rather than Allah he indeed shall suffer a manifest loss.
[4:120] He gives them promises and excites vain desires in them; and the Shaitan does not promise them but to deceive.
[4:121] These are they whose abode is hell, and they shall not find any refuge from it.
[7:27] O children of Adam! Let not the Shaitan cause you to fall into affliction as he expelled your parents from the garden, pulling off from them both their clothing that he might show them their evil inclinations, he surely sees you, he as well as his host, from whence you cannot see them; surely We have made the Shaitans to be the guardians of those who do not believe.
[15:28] And when your Lord said to the angels: Surely I am going to create a mortal of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape.
[15:29] So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down making obeisance to him.
[15:30] So the angels made obeisance, all of them together,
[15:31] But Iblis (did it not); he refused to be with those who made obeisance.
[15:32] He said: O Iblis! What excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance?
[15:33] He said: I am not such that I should make obeisance to a mortal whom Thou hast created of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape.
[15:34] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:
[15:35] And surely on you is curse until the day of judgment.
[15:36] He said: My Lord! Then respite me till the time when they are raised.
[15:37] He said: So surely you are of the respited ones
[15:38] Till the period of the time made known.
[15:39] He said: My Lord! Because Thou hast made life evil to me, I will certainly make (evil) fair-seeming to them on earth, and I will certainly cause them all to deviate
[15:40] Except Thy servants from among them, the devoted ones.
[15:41] He said: This is a right way with Me:
[15:42] Surely, As regards My servants, you have no authority ,over them except those who follow you of the deviators.
[15:43] And surely Hell is the promised place of them all:
[16:99] Surely he (shaitan) has no authority over those who believe and rely on their Lord.
[16:100] His authority is only over those who befriend him (Shaitan) and those who associate others with Him (Allah).
[17:53] And say to My servants (that) they speak that which is best; surely the Shaitan sows dissensions among them; surely the Shaitan is an open enemy to man.
[17:61] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He said: Shall I make obeisance to him whom Thou hast created of dust?
[17:62] He said: Tell me, is this he whom Thou hast honored above me? If Thou shouldst respite me to the day of resurrection, I will most certainly cause his progeny to perish except a few.
[17:63] He said: Be gone! For whoever of them will follow you, then surely hell is your recompense, a full recompense:
[17:64] And beguile whomsoever of them you can with your voice, and collect against them your forces riding and on foot, and share with them in wealth and children, and hold out promises to them; and the Shaitan makes not promises to them but to deceive:
[17:65] Surely (as for) My servants, you have no authority over them; and your Lord is sufficient as a Protector. [
[18:50] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance but Iblis (did it not). He was of the jinn, so he transgressed the commandment of his Lord. What! Would you then take him and his offspring for friends rather than Me, and they are your enemies? Evil is (this) change for the unjust.
[22:3] And among men there is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge and follows every rebellious Shaitan;
[22:4] Against him it is written down that whoever takes him (Shaitan) for a friend, he shall lead him astray and conduct him to the chastisement of the burning fire.
[22:52] And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise,
[22:53] So that He may make what the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and those whose hearts are hard; and most surely the unjust are in a great opposition,
[26:221] Shall I inform you (of him) upon whom the Shaitans descend?
[26:222] They descend upon every lying, sinful one,
[26:223] They incline their ears, and most of them are liars.
[26:224] And as to the poets, those who go astray follow them.
[26:225] Do you not see that they wander about bewildered in every valley?
[26:226] And that they say that which they do not do,
[34:20] And certainly the Shaitan found true his conjecture concerning them, so they (wretched) follow him, except a party of the believers.
[34:21] And he has no authority over them, but that We may distinguish him who believes in the hereafter from him who is in doubt concerning it; and your Lord is the Preserver of all things
[35:5] O men! Surely the promise of Allah is true, therefore let not the life of this world deceive you, and let not the arch-deceiver (Iblis) deceive you respecting Allah.
[35:6] Surely the Shaitan is your enemy, so take him for an enemy; he only invites his party that they may be inmates of the burning fire.
[36:59] And get aside today (at Qayamah), O guilty ones!
[36:60] Did I not charge you, O children of Adam! That you should not serve the Shaitan? Surely he is your open enemy,
[36:61] And that you should serve Me; this is the right way.
[36:62] And certainly he led astray numerous people from among you.
What! could you not then understand?

[37:6] Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars,
[37:7] And (there is) a safeguard against every rebellious Shaitan.
[37:8] They cannot listen to the exalted assembly and they are thrown at from every side,
[37:9] Being driven off (from the heavens), and for them is a perpetual chastisement,
[37:10] Except him who snatches off but once, then there follows him a brightly shining flame (bolt)
[37:11] Then ask them whether they (demons) are stronger in creation or those (others) whom We have created. Surely We created them of firm clay.
[38:71] When your Lord said to the angels; Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust:
[38:72] So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down making obeisance to him.
[38:73] And the angels did obeisance, all of them,
[38:74] But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
[38:75] He said: O Iblis! What prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
[38:76] He said: I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.
[38:77] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:
[38:78] And surely My curse is on you to the day of judgment.
[38:79] He said: My Lord! Then respite me to the day that they are raised.
[38:80] He said: Surely you are of the respited ones,
[38:81] Till the period of the time made known.
[38:82] He said: Then by Thy Might I will surely make them live an evil life, all,
[38:83] Except Thy servants from among them, the purified ones.
[38:84] He said: The truth then is and the truth do I speak:
[38:85] That I (Allah) will most certainly fill hell with you (Iblis) and with those among them who follow you, all.
[41:36] And if an interference of the Shaitan should cause you mischief, seek refuge in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
[43:36] And whoever turns himself away from the remembrance of the Beneficent Allah, We appoint for him a Shaitan, so he becomes his associate.
[43:37] And most surely they (shaitans) turn them away from the path, and they think that they are guided aright:
[43:38] Until when he comes to Us, he says: O would that between me and you there were the distance of the East and the West; so evil is the associate!
[43:62] And let not the Shaitan prevent you (from Sirat Al-Mustaqeem); surely he is your open enemy.
[58:10] Secret counsels are only (the work) of the Shaitan that he may cause to grieve those who believe, and he cannot hurt them in the least except with Allah's permission, and on Allah let the believers rely.
[59:16] Like the Shaitan when he says to man: Disbelieve, but when he disbelieves, he says: I am surely clear of you; surely I fear Allah, the Lord of the worlds.


If indeed Shaytaan is the author of the Quran then he has done a very poor job of selling himself in 'his' book.

Now let me address your ignorance with what paganism is and how it abounds in your religion that you call Christianity

advocatejare:
Show us any fatwa against use of crescent moon and star as the symbol of Islam

People like you always deflect from ignorance by resorting to abuse, the same thing you do even when it comes to politics, now let me educate you a little bit; that is if you have the capability to learn, otherwise in the words of Reno... "o ya abuse more"

When your "holy" spirit decide to rape[i] ( its not my word, it is what your Bible says when it says overshadow or overpower)[/i] Mary the mother of your God, I bet you don't know how old she was. Mary was 12 years old and Joseph the Carpenter was almost 90 years old and a widower. How did we know this, it is in a book called " The History of Joseph the Carpenter" Now do not tell me you don't believe in this Book because it is not in your Bible but you believe the Hadith of Bukhari that mentioned Aisha's age. Moreover, please note that the Book of Infancy Gospel of James also confirmed that Mary was 12 years old and both these books by far predates the Hadith of Bukhari so they cannot have been said to be later day forgeries meant to address the age of Aisha.

Now about these two books which will be called Apocrypha in the likes of Gospel of Barnabas, we should be aware that Apocrypha does not mean fake of forgery in its original Greek meaning it simply means " hidden or concealed" At different times in the history of Christianity some of these books were accepted as genuine and up till these day some Orthodox and Syriac sects of Christianity still actually read those books. That is also why the Catholic version of the Old Testament contains the extra books of Baruch, Judith 1 &2, Maccabees, SIrach, Tobit and Wisdom. Now let me educate you more. Inside the Canonical Books you accept as your Bible today, there are other books mentioned and in fact referenced positively, of which those books have not been included in your Bible even when those Books are not "hidden" or apocrypha.

Here also is a list of early church fathers believed Mary was married off when she was 12 years old and Joseph the carpenter was a very old and was fourscore years old when he married 12-year-old Mary:

1. Epiphanius (310 – 403AD)
2. Hilary (Hilarius) of Poitiers (300 – 368AD)
3. John Chrysostom (Born between 344 and 349 – Died 407 AD)
4. Cyril of Alexandria (376 – 444 AD)
5. Saint Euthymius the Great (377 – 473 AD)
6. Theophylact of Ohrid (also known as Theophylact of Bulgaria) (1055 – 1107 AD)
7. Cecumenius
8. Eusebius (263 – 339 AD)

As for the 'holy' spirit raping the mother of your God, this is what your Bible says

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall COME UPON YOU, and the power of the Highest shall OVERSHADOW YOU: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God". – Luke 1:35
Also your famous verse John 3:16 called Jesus the "begotten" son of God of which the act of begetting involves sexual activity
check your dictionaries for the meaning of "beget" dont take my word for it. So your "holy" spirit that begat your Saviour had to OVERPOWER (in another translation) Mary , meaning.... rape

Enemyofpeace:
dat na prophet Mohammodu nau. Na small pikin pusssssssy dey always hungry dat one

Do you even know what a negative energy is? And how did you decipher that from my statement?. You don't need to use big words you don't understand just to show you are learned, instead you are showing your ignorance more

NaijaPrince18:
There’s nothing wrong with it. You’re negative energy is 10x worse

Yes sir, you have answered the question yourself. The Bible was supposed to be inspired by God, so why he would inspire two authors to write different things about the same people. If only we all can agree that the writers were simply doing their best with the information available to them and leave out the inspiration business. Also even if his genealogy was to be traced and I agree with you it should be through his mother, curiously Mary's name is missing in any of the two account. Surely people inspired by God should write what is TRUE and NOT what they think people want to hear.

The other problem is about the multiple versions that abound all because of thousands of different ancient manuscripts "no two of which completely agree with another" in the words of Bible scholars. I can give you an example

The verse which is the cornerstone of Trinity and the only one that bears a little semblance of the doctrine is 1 John5:7. You will only find that verse in the KJV, most modern versions have removed it completely because that text is NOT found in aicent manuscripts older than those on which the KJV was based. Check the link below.

https://www.nairaland.com/6986742/37-bibles-removed-trinity-verse

There are other verses which have been proven to be later day additions or those with dubious translations like the famous John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God" the last God in the word was God was a deliberate mistranslation of the original Greek word ton-theos

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/new-testament-refutations-trinity-doctrine-part-21

Kobojunkie:
You have peaked my interest! Care if we take these on one at a time then? I am very much interested in dissecting every problem you have there to understand what aspects have led you to conclude that the book itself is volatile and contradictory when in fact it is merely a compendium of books each written by different authors at different points in time.

So, what do you say? Shall we create a different topic to dissect this?

2. About the Geneology of Jesus Christ, I don't believe there was in fact what you consider a fabrication. Remember that we are talking of a time when there were no fact-checking systems in place and no computers to catch errors. The writer of Matthew may have simply gotten his details from a source different from that which the writer of Luke had obtained his from. My guess is Joseph, long dead at the time the genealogy was written may not have been there to verify any of the claims obtained by the two sources. Also, when it comes to the matter of Jesus Christ's actual genealogy, it has to be traced from the line of his mother of course. Why? Because He was not born of an earthly father after all and the Law of Moses — by way of the benefit given to the daughters of Zelophedad— did allow for genealogy to be traced from the mother, even though Jewish tradition may have frowned greatly on it— I think it still does. But yeah, there is also the possibility that Mary and Joseph were related as you said.

Additionally, the line that included Solomon was not valid at all because Solomon was disqualified by the God of Israel from fathering the King forever. So, any line that included the mention of Solomon could not be it.

Why flaunt the fact that she is Yoruba, what do we achieve with that fact?. Even if some tribalistic bigots are always tribalising every positive or negative news must we encourage it? Honestly we should have grown beyond this level. I just watched a clip of Nigeria-Bulgaria match in 1994 and boy, am I proud to be a Nigeria whilst reminiscing on that glorious achievement! When it comes to sports we wont start looking at the tribe of who scored or who created the goal, why are we doing it in our every day lives now.

Anyway, what am I even saying , the same tribal bigotry has now crept into our sports arena given the stupid comments from some people after our loss to Cote D'Ivoire in the last Nations Cup

I beg to disagree, what about the hundreds of VERSIONS of the Bible which abound today with substantial textual differences and some times complete verses missing/removed altogether. I can provide you with up to twenty chapters in the NRSV , RSV , NWT, NT _Anmerican Version to mention a few where certain verses in the KJV have been discarded because they were not found in the most ancient manuscripts older than those on which the KJV was based. Prominent verses that have been removed as being later day additions are Mark 16:9-20 which supposedly describe Jesus's ascension, 1st John 5:7 which is the cornerstone of the Trinity doctrine is a fabrication, your famous John 3:16 does not have the word BEGOTTEN in the original manuscript, Isiah 7:14 does not have the word VIRGIN even in the manuscripts that were translated, the word there in the Hebrew text is 'almah' which should be translated as a young woman and not "bethulah" which means VIRGIN. Go and check those versions of the Bible I have mentioned and you will confirm what I have said that there is not only ONE Bible.

What about the conundrum of the fabricated genealogy of Jesus as given by Mark and Luke. For a man who has no biological father they invented a genealogy for him and even then they still both could not agree on whether he came from David via Nathan or Solomon and nalso with a staggering 15 generations difference between Mark and Luke's lists? I know some apologist would come out and say one was tracing through Joseph and the other through Mary, in that case where does Mary come up in the line of fabricated genealogy, because both ended with Joseph (unless they are saying Mary and Joseph are actually siblings)

Kobojunkie:
There is no truth to to the claims you make of the book. Rather the volatility and contradictions you pretend stem from the many unscriptural interpretations applied to the messages contained in your Bible by those of the religion of Christianity a religion which at this point in time boasts over 47,000 different interpretations of the one books, interpretations sectioned into denominations, sects within the religion.

There is only one Bible and one Truth; the meaning of every text as stated by the author of the passage concerned.

What Christianity offers you is a scam platform that basically enables scammers masquerading as sheep to spin their own lies using random verses taken out of context. The religion now offer over 47,000 lies/idols known as interpretations which can be worshipped of the God of Israel and His Son, Jesus Christ. But lies are far away from God and He hates the worship of Idols.

Only an absolute idiot and a complete loser would "wail" when wonderful things are happening in any part of our beloved Nation just to prove a stupid political point. You are expecting Agbadorians to come and wail because Abia is about to start enjoying uninterrupted power? Your expectation is probably because that is what you will do if a similar good news is coming from a government you hate.....you think everyone is bigoted like you to the extent of thinking that whatever good initiatives are not coming from your people or political party is only good for ridicule.........I tire for una o

keymatt:
Alex Oti is working
Waiting for children of corn master to come and wail as usual.

Do you have to go the bank? most banks have online avenue to do so. The only problem is the vNIN from the NIMC portal which caused minor delays for some. Honestly as long as you have relatives who are educated you need not go the bank to do the linking, just as easy as using the USSD codes from your phone to link the mobile phone number or from the telecoms operator's website also

Knowing that some people just want to moan about everything to prove stupid points, BVN is not the same as NIN and perhaps if NIN has been in place earlier on we might not have needed the BVN again. All I could say is that even thought the general message about the March 1 deadline has been in place since last year, the banks did not do a good job of sensitizing their customers in this regard. Worthy of note however that typical of any major change in Nigeria, give at least a year notice and some would still not take action until the last minute,

IF the government should introduce mandatory registration of all births to get access to government services some would still complain. We want things to be better, to have better database for governance and yet we don't just want to embrace sensible changes

smogicesamson:
And how is it not stressful, going to the banking hall waiting for almost an hour isnt that stressful, has long as it cant be done online den it is stressful else you dont have anything doing

So Russia is the EVIL and Israel is the ANGEL and USA is the ARCHANGEL ko? I no blame you, your mindset is already exposed when you agreed that African countries are "shithole"

emapeteum:
Why do Africans and African leaders stand for evil? They support Russia against Ukraine and HAMAS as South Africa is currently championing but citizens of these shithole nations are queuing daily at the Western embassies.No wonder they have been having oppressive leaders that enrich themselves at the expense of the ill-informed masses. The pro-eastern block would do Africa no good. If you hate the west so much, the best group for you is BOKO HARAM, and never intend to go to any Western nations. This is the best way to show your anger.

Yeyenatu! This guy likes to play to the gallery. MR NO STAIN.......is it part of his 'honesty' and 'integrity' that made him invest his state's money in family business (and even had the gut to lie about being a stakeholder in the business) and the same openness made him go hide money for offshore tax-havens? Dey deceive yourself

DId all the lands of the present geographical area called Palestine ever belong to the Jews from the dawn of time? Were there not the Cannanites , Amalekites etc already flourishing on those lands before Abraham even came from Ur (present day Iraq) so whats your point? That those who have existed on the land earlier owns the land? Sorry that is not the Israelites. IF your argument is that those Canaanites and Amalekites have now been destroyed why then cant you accept that the Israelis have also been displaced from those lands more than a millenium ago? Modern day land ownership is not proved with the promises in an archaic book claiming to be from God

mikeapollo:
The Philistines had long been conquered and destroyed. Do you want to ask about the Canaanites, Amalekites, Jebusites, Babylonians, etc. too?
Don't confuse Philistine and Palestine. They are not the same. The people calling themselves ''Palestinians'' are originally the descendants of Arabs from Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc. They are not Philistines.

In any case, did Bethlehem and Jerusalem ever belong to the so called Philistines?

I think I "agree" with you that only Muslims are terrorists.... however

1. the people who massacred 6 million Jews were Christians not Muslims

2. those who forcefully took over the lands of the Native Indians in the American continent massacring many of them and putting the rest into forced detention in RESERVATION CAMPS ( not unlike what is being done to the Palestinians) were Christians Pilgrim invaders

3. the worst atrocities of any colonial era in Congo was perpetrated by the Belgians under King Leopold and they were Christians, and what about the French in Tunisia, they were also Christians

4. what about the terrors and death due to the apartheid of the mainly White Dutch and Christian oppressors in South Africa, that also stands there with the atrocities of a people who were Christians and surely we can label that Christian terrorism.

5. Not to talk about the multitude of terrorism instigated by the 'God' of the Bible against "unclean Gentiles" which the Christians claim were inspired?

" At the seventh time Joshua said, Shout — To testify your faith in God’s promise, and thankfulness for this glorious mercy; to encourage yourselves and brethren, and to strike a [b]terror [/b]into your enemies. The Lord hath given you the city — It is given to you to be devoted to God, as the first (and perhaps the worst) of all the cities of Canaan" (Joshua 6:16)

"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me. " (Luke 19:27)

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household” (Matthew 10:34-36).

The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords." (Hosea 12:16)

6. The KU Klux Klan terrorists in America must also be Muslims
7. The drug gangs of South America who have killed millions in their gang wars must be Muslims
8. The Jewish IRGUN and HAGANAH terrorist groups that murdered British soldiers in Palestine must also be Muslims.
9. The first recorded incident of suicide bombing that killed Rajiv Gandhi was carried out by the Tamil Tiger separatist who were also Muslims ko?
10. Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma bomber must be a Muslim also
11. Andrea Behring Breivik, the Norwegian terrorist that killed 77 is also likely to be a Muslim

I can go on and on but it is of no use to those whose thinking have been warped by religious bigotry.....

Samesame247:
You can be a Muslim and not be yet a terrorist but you can't be a terrorist and not be a muslim

Bros get your fact right, people hate the Zionists not the Israelis and there is a poles-apart difference between the two. Even the founder of ZIonism was a secular man with no affinity for Judaism. Have you seen how many Jews have come out en-masse worldwide to condemn the ZIonist agenda even before the events of October 7 and subsequently after.

Talking about hating, have you not seen the evidences produced by S/ Africa in court, most of which are available in social media about the amount of venom your "God's people" have for the "Amalekites". Perhaps you need to refer to your Bible to understand what is meant to be referred to as the Amalekites who were supposed to be victims of genocide because your ever-loving God pr0mised his people thier lands

Yes Jews used to be special and beloved to God because as of that period they were the only people still practising monotheism, but they have lost all the glory and special love. If only you can refer to the incident of Nakba in 1948, then it would be clear to you why an average Palestinian of any generation would have no love for the ZIonists.

As for your misrepresentation of then love between Arabs and Christians, it can be verified that all religious groups lived in harmony under the Muslim rule in the Holy land. See the article below to let you know that the ZIonists do not give a toss for Christianity or even Judaism but the Jewish Nationalism called Zionism


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/christians-are-in-danger-under-israeli-government-says-holy-land-patriarch#:~:text=Christians%20are%20in%20danger%20under%20Israeli%20government%2C%20says%20Holy%20Land%20patriarch,-This%20article%20is&text=The%20head%20of%20the%20Roman,in%20the%20birthplace%20of%20Christianity.

mikeapollo:
The issue is not whether or not Israel disdain has for Christians and for blacks!
Do the Arabs have any better love for Christians and for blacks? Didn't they partake in the slave trade? Are they not bombing and killing Christians up till today?

You cannot be a Christian (or true Muslim) and hate Israel! That is a fact!
Most of the prophets of God in the Bible (over 99%) and the Quran were from Israel! How can you be a Christian or true Muslim (that believes in God and His prophets) and hate such country!

How can you claim you love the prophets of God, but you hate their people and land!?

Who will blame for being so daring after losing 24 soldiers in one single day of a war which thier mumu supporters said is going to last only a week and which is costing them $260 million everyday ( according to Bloomberg). Ironic that anyone holding a gun on the side of the merciless occupiers are "heroes" but those holding a gun on the side of the resistance are " terrorist" except when those resistance people are white Europeans like in the second world......in that case, those resistance fighters are "valiants" The same way Mandela and his groups were labelled terrorists for resisting the unjust occupation of thier lands and the evil apartheid regime..... sound familiar?

I don't think there is a sinister motive about this. If I understood correctly, people who have undergone trauma in any form can be offered therapy to help them cope

superCleanworks:
So she needed rehab?
rehab from what?

is this an attempt to further pin the insanity badge on her or a coded welfare package to pamper her and silence the matter?

Madam minister is coming to visit her for the second time? For what exactly?

Whatever you do with your life is your own problem, but no religion or sensible ideology encourage or permit the spreading of rumour or falsehood and hatred. You have no confirmation of the identity of the perpetrator of this hideous crime, yet you already arrived at the conclusion it must be someone who prays five time daily, meaning you already have an hatred or a beef with those people and you have the gut to say you are telling the truth.... which useless truth be that




I will take religion as i deem fit. Its religion and it is made by man for man.[/quote]

Which stupid truth are you speaking? Did the Bible teach you to work with conjecture and spread rumour? Religious bigot, I just gave you a link to the story of the "pastor"who murdered his wife was it the Bible that taught him to do that? We know your type, your perpetual hatred for others who don't profess your religion might probably choke you to death... And I am assuming you will go to church today ,, thinking you are following Jesus

omoredia:
If truth dey put fire for your head na u sabi. But the truth must be said like it or not

the mad man that beheaded his friend in the case in the link below appears to be from the land where the sun rises.... how about that. Tribalistic idiots !

https://thenationonlineng.net/man-beheads-colleague-after-seeing-his-n13m-account-balance/

ZekeYeager:
He fled in the direction of the setting sun and he was probably clutching the missing head in both his hands. In case you still don't understand, go online and type "What direction does the sun set?" and you will get your answer.

Those who are initiated already understand...