₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: I am in no way deviating from the subject matter..all I am doing is to reveal God's attribute and how preceding issues was dealt with by God.

If I dump God's grace, does that make God change His mind over His gift?

There you go againu
You're getting yourself tied up in knots again bro
The thread isn't even about God's grace or God's gift
but if you want to digress a bit , fine then...

Bird fly, and fly gracefully because God gave bird the gift or ability to fly and to gracefully fly too
Bird gets caught in a trapper's cage, don't mean God has changed His mind over the flying gift
Only thing now is that bird is caught in the trapper's cage. Oh dear.
Whats little birdie going to do about that
The grace to fly is there, the ability to fly is there
but thing is, bird is snookered...

OLAADEGBU: Honour the LORD with your substance.

^^^
Don't all already honour the LORD with their substance?
What most don't seem to want to agree to is that no one is per se as such against tithing
Of course it could be used as training ground for free will giving
All, did it that way, before all became fully free of the shackles of coercion and/or bondage of tithing method
What all regard with disgust and hatred is, the carrot and stick method of tithing

shdemidemi: Dump it where?

Its God's gift and God said in His word that His gift is without repentance. There is a way to get God's gift but no way to return or dump the gift bro. God did not give the gift because I am good, so why will He take it when I remain un-good?

The bible says God's goodness is what leads us to repentance and not our repentance leads to God's goodness.
If anyone understand the gift of salvation like they should, such person is bound to be humbled to serve and obey God in every area of their life.

So in retrospect, if Jesus and Stephen didn't commit their spirit, God wouldn't keep that which had been entrusted to him from the day they became part of Him?

Peter was a man, he erred too. After picking Matthias, what else did you hear about Matthias in scripture. Peter had no clue of what God was doing either. He had to be forced, pushed by God to do some things he should have done even before Paul was appointed to do it. Was Peter's opinion God's verdict on judas' life? Never.

God had to raise Apostle Paul to explain grace to us and how merciful and loving God is to mankind. The more we heard of Paul in this book of Acts, the less we hear of Peter.

I will rather not go into Paul and Peter issue, but the substance in all of this is that God's gift is without repentance.
He can't change is mind on that gift of salvation. Judas was part of Him and judas benefited from that grace of God like Noah and the yong Israelites who got to the promise land did.

"Dump it where?

Its God's gift and God said in His word that His gift is without repentance.
There is a way to get God's gift but no way to return or dump the gift bro.
God did not give the gift because I am good, so why will He take it when I remain un-good?" - shdemidemi

I don't know,
have you never taken or received a gift, only to dump somewhere,
maybe because you didn't appreciate it, maybe didn't like, maybe only took it to save face etc etc
Ah bro, dey sit down there, Samson King Saul etc can or will tell how gifts get returned trashed or dumped

God like every other is asking for or taking the gift back. Who said this? You or me?

"The bible says God's goodness is what leads us to repentance and not our repentance leads to God's goodness.
If anyone understand the gift of salvation like they should, such person is bound to be humbled to serve and obey God in every area of their life.

So in retrospect, if Jesus and Stephen didn't commit their spirit,
God wouldn't keep that which had been entrusted to him from the day they became part of Him?" - shdemidemi

As we earlier discussed, for the benefits of people like you and I, the bible would have written if Judas repented or sought forgiveness
- this information is crucial, after all "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting etc etc"

You seriously need to adhere to the scope of this thread (i.e. Is Judas really a villain?)
Is there a shade of difference between remorse with no emotion and weeping bitterly showing emotions

"Peter was a man, he erred too. After picking Matthias, what else did you hear about Matthias in scripture.
Peter had no clue of what God was doing either.
He had to be forced, pushed by God to do some things he should have done even before Paul was appointed to do it.
Was Peter's opinion God's verdict on judas' life? Never." - shdemidemi

Just trying to draw your attention to your "Jesus said the twelve disciples will be there to judge Israel ... Did He speak amiss?" statement
So, you see yourself now. Who's the 12th disciple going to be now? Matthias or Judas?

Never? Did you say never?
Oh no, Peter actually had an opinion, as he said "...which Judas left to go where he belongs"
This is why I earlier said, for the sake of the likes of you and I, where Judas belonged should have been made evident just as Stephen's was
Peter however is hinting where though

"God had to raise Apostle Paul to explain grace to us and how merciful and loving God is to mankind.
The more we heard of Paul in this book of Acts, the less we hear of Peter.

I will rather not go into Paul and Peter issue, but the substance in all of this is that God's gift is without repentance. He can't change is mind on that gift of salvation.
Judas was part of Him and judas benefited from that grace of God like Noah and the young Israelites who got to the promise land did"
- shdemimdemi

You may brush off Peter with the wave of a hand anyhow you like bro
but please consider how much Jesus esteemed Peter, and especially so, in this verse:

¹⁸And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
¹⁹I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven.”
- Matthew 16:18-19 NIV

Everyone has their moment of great opportunity in life, it was Paul's turn on the stage. Don't sweat it bro.

Noah and the young Israelites are from two different dispensations that I will rather not go into, as it isn't within the scope of this thread.

God is not human, so He does not change His mind.
God doesn't change His mind on the gift of salvation
He so much loved the world He gave Himself up for it
but that don't mean one can't trample on this gift
One gives free Love, freely, one doesn't want forced love, forcibly against will, returned.
- I know you got the drift with that last sentence.

^^^
https://s16.postimg.org/sl0a6s7dh/clap.gif
https://s15.postimg.org/x1psm5aon/Applause_Hand_Up.gifhttps://s27.postimg.org/3w4dq7nlr/applause.gifhttps://s15.postimg.org/x1psm5aon/Applause_Hand_Up.gif
Bravo! Wow!!
Some damaging and serious uppercut sucker punches in that post

shdemidemi: How did that equate to eternal and spiritual condemnation?


If I die today,
whichever way I die does not change the fact that God gave me a gift of salvation that cannot be revoked or gained by whatever I say or do.

Judas was sealed in to Christ, the very moment he was called by God to be a disciple.

From hell, we are now hopping to eternal and spiritual condemnation, aren't we now?
I thought the thread was about Judas and villainy
You're grasping at straws bro the way you're skirting all over the place.

Of course, in most cases, the gifts can't be revoked once dished out
yet it doesn't stop people from dumping it in a trash bin after taking or receiving the gift
It is not about shdemidemi, shdemidemi is not black and white in the bible, Judas is
and so for the benefits of people like you and I, the bible would have written if Judas said or did so, like Jesus and Stephen did
- It is crucial, after all "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting etc etc"

I wonder what Peter found wicked in what Judas did.
Bro, I will adjure you to go and read about someone called Matthias
also read what Peter said about the circumstances that surrounded and led to appointing Matthias.

shdemidemi: Prophesying in Jesus name does not mean you are in Christ or saved. Jesus will never deny a Christian whose belief stems from a conviction and a persuasion for the heart.

Many walk around with head knowledge of Christ without a regenerated spirit, they claim to use the name of Jesus but they will be denied.

Judas was not in that category, he was not only a disciple but a special disciple called into salvation by God Himself.

Yeah I know and the special is the blue bit bro, in this below verse:
For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.
It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!"
- Mark 14:21 NLT

Fine, if you're now prepared to talk of regenerated spirit (i.e. as you selectively ignored something about it earlier when I hinted on it)

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
- Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJ Bible

Tell us then, did Judas before he died, commit his spirit into the Father's
or did he before he died, pray that Lord Jesus receive his spirit (i.e. before or after Jesus died on the Cross)
Please, as your response will be important, don't rush to answer back

shdemidemi: ^^
How have I put the cart before the horse?

You are the one who refuse to answer simple questions, for the sake of avoiding a snare, I guess.
Well, no one in Christ can be separated from Him. He did not die for us because we are good people, He died for us even when we were wicked and evil.

Judas was certainly in Christ, He preached Christ and he was promised eternal life by the master Himself....
Meaning he won't suffer a second death. Thanks

Before you reconstructed it, I had previously answered you so no point in repeating myself
- Remember "Of course, don't we all, which is why Hebrews 4:16 is handy"

²²On that day many will say to Me, Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?'
²³Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'
- Matthew 7:22-23

Nobi today, yansh dey back
"Judas was certainly in Christ, He preached Christ and he was promised eternal life by the master Himself...." indeed

The only way he won't suffer a second death is if he was born of above
as you've just read in Matthew 7:22-23 above
prophesying in Jesus' name, driving out demons in Jesus' name, and doing many miracles in Jesus' name is not a guarantee. Thanks.

shdemidemi: Does this say or mean any Christian who is eager for money or wander from the faith are heading to hell?

You're putting cart before horse bro.
Am I missing something about this thread?
Has it now changed from villainy to hell?
- go back two posts above this and re-read it bro

shdemidemi: The question is quite pertinent to the topic actually....

If we call judas worldly, are we different or better than judas?

If you think we are, please explain how.

Whether we are, is neither here or there
- It is not about us, the discussion is about but it is about Judas
If I didn't know you bro, I'll say what you posted up there is very unsportsmanlike
because, you and I know, that when Judas was lampooned with the "worldly" tag, it was, in reference to 1 Timothy 6:10
but you won't resign to or acknowledge that,
preferring rather to continually shift away from that fact and truth that Judas love of money led him to or made him wander away from the faith
and caused him great grief to the extent of topping himself (i.e. kill himself)

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
- 1 Timothy 6:10 NIV

shdemidemi: Bro, are you a worldly man?

I read you the first time, so no need repeating yourself bro
The thread is not about me
so stick to it, stick with the post(s), stick with Judas and respond without getting the hump with me

shdemidemi: ^^^
Are you a worldly man?

Worldly:
- existing on or relating to the earth
- of or concerned with material values or ordinary life rather than a spiritual existence.
- having a lot of practical experience and knowledge about life and the world
- of, relating to, or devoted to this world and its pursuits rather than to religion or spiritual affairs
- of or pertaining to this world as contrasted with heaven, spiritual life, etc
- devoted to or connected with the material or sensual pleasures of this world
"worldly-minded absorbed in or concerned with material things or matters that are immediately relevant"
"his ambitions for worldly success"

shdemidemi: Of course he was responsible for his action, although his action fits perfectly into God's plan for him and by extension, the world.
That is an aspect of God man cannot fathom or comprehend.
God made man to be self willed with his volition in his control yet man never seize to arrive at the point where God had predestined him to be.

Will God judge him based on his morals or lack of it? No.

He will be judged by grace through God's mercy and faithfulness to His word that says whosoever believe in Jesus shall not perish.
By grace Noah was saved even before Abraham or Israel.

Death was good for him at that time, if you ask me, I think it was the end of his mission on earth.
Being alive after betraying Jesus wouldn't be healthy for either him or the rest of the apostles.
It was the right time to leave the scene.

Everyone could see you, from a mile, gravitating towards this spurious conclusion(s).

We discussed at length earlier that Judas was a worldly man
but you wouldn't have it and now I bet you still won't concede Judas was a worldly man; an industrial savvy one too for that matter
even in the light of scriptures as this:

⁵"That perfume was worth a year's wages. It should have been sold and the money given to the poor."
Not that he cared for the poor
⁶he was a thief, and since he was in charge of the disciples' money, he often stole some for himself.
- John 12:5-6 NLT

Bro are you for real? Judas is not in the same league with Noah, Abraham or Israel (i.e. Jacob) you know
You either justify yourself by putting out scripture(s) that unequivocally backs up your statement(s)
(i.e. especially this statement about Judas:
...will be judged by grace through God's mercy and faithfulness to His word that says whosoever believe in Jesus shall not perish...)
or remain silent on this thread or subject matter about Judas please

God having foreknowledge does not mean Judas was predestined

"That is an aspect of God man cannot fathom or comprehend.
God made man to be self willed with his volition in his control
yet man never seize to arrive at the point where God had predestined him to be"
- shdemidemi

When you start to apply "If ... Else statements" you will get to understand that God did not in advance determine Judas would betray Him.
and know
God, yes, was aware before it happened that Judas will betray Him,
but did nothing to stop it (i.e. this is why man never cease to arrive at the point where God has seen beforehand had predestined him to be)
God, as earlier discussed, is OMNI, Omni-know-everything-at-any-time-t.
He knows the end from the beginning.

This is not a play or script bro, where the actions of the actors or characters are determined in advance by the writer or author

Choice matters in the overall scheme of God's things,
and the actors or characters in God's special script including Judas, have this a special right

Have you been predestined to read this post?
Have a choice to decline or not, read this post?

As earlier discussed, God knew Adam and Eve will eat the fruit; the plan goes on
God knew Pharaoh will be stubborn; the plan goes on
God knew Mary will say yes; the plan goes on
God knew Caiaphas will set Him; the plan goes on
God knew Judas will betray Him; the plan goes on
God knew He'll hang on the Cross; the plan goes on
God knew etc etc etc; the plan goes on and we all live happily ever after

"Death was good for him at that time, if you ask me, I think it was the end of his mission on earth.
Being alive after betraying Jesus wouldn't be healthy for either him or the rest of the apostles.
It was the right time to leave the scene"
- shdemidemi

Death has a purpose, which is why it was on standby in Eden, even before Adam and Eve sinned.
- The soul that sinneth, it shall die
That was not the right death Judas died,
There we go again, self, all about "wouldn't be healthy" for self.
Self, self, self. It is not about self
The right time for Judas to leave is not when Judas decides, c'mon now, you know that much bro.

It was wrong and a wrong time, just because God obliged it, doesn't make it right or the right time

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
- Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJ Bible

Tell us, did Judas before he died, commit his spirit into the Father's
or did he before he died, pray that Lord Jesus receive his spirit (i.e. before or after Jesus died on the Cross)

I only came back in because I am seeing wool getting pulled over eyes here again

jacksonite: Thank you guys for taking your time to discuss exhaustively on my thread.I will take time and study your positions before I make up my mind. Cheers!

Bro. You're welcome jaare.

shdemidemi: I gave you the answer before, didn't I?

I said God created man knowing man will fall
but He knew He would forgive mankind to show He is a loving, fair and compassionate God,
but the devil's condemnation is without forgiveness.
God gave mankind a gift of salvation that man could never have worked for nor achieve by anything they possess within their flesh.

Romans 11:29 says

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

He remains faithful and righteous to Whomever He elects... God knew man will fail but He will never fail.

Romans 4:7

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

If that is the response, I guess I am done on this thread then
- Thanks for the sparring though bro.

shdemidemi: That's the bit you don't seem to get, pharaoh and caiaphas cannot be added to that list....

and this is the blue bit bro, you don't seem to be getting:

For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.
It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!"
- Mark 14:21 NLT

I'll make it easier, forget Judas, forget Caiaphas, forget Pharaoh, forget etc etc
Let's empty the tray and bend down adding items back in...
Let's go back to in the beginning, go back to Eden

Why? As I am asking you again, why was Adam and Eve left alone with tree of knowledge of good & evil
when God who by the way, is Omniscient, knew they will eat of the fruit of the tree,
thereby commit sin and end up with a death payoff
Think deeply before responding as I don't want you giving a God on an ego trip or God having an ego massaging session response

shdemidemi: Elucidate...

All I am saying is that the overall will of God will always come to past although man generally thinks he has his free will and volition. God had said Jesus will be be born in Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary had to be moved to Bethlehem somehow. They were living their lives but unknowingly fulfilling Gods word.

Esau and Jacob were known before they were born.
God had foretold which will serve which, they were oblivious to Gods plan but they carried it out to the letter over some stew.

Judas had no choice in the matter

Same as Adam, Eve, Cain, Pharaoh, Caiaphas etc did not have a choice?

shdemidemi: You never chose Christ, neither did judas choose Christ.... He called you to himself, like he called judas.

Once God calls, you cannot de-call yourself, going by scriptures.

John 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, ......

As I earlier said, if one is truly in Christ, one doesn't then is
What kind of fruit did Judas bring forth bro?
Many are called but few are chosen bro (i.e. Matthew 22:14)
Call don't mean selection

shdemidemi: It was God's wisdom and plan for the world. Apostle Paul will say-

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Like I earlier said, it had to do with God tackling and dealing with sin, the root and the whole essence of sin
the extraction of sinfulness to it's core
which is why Adam and Eve were left in the garden with the tree of knowledge of good and evil

shdemidemi: What if he had refuse to betray Christ, what would have been your fate
and most importantly the word which God spoke even before judas was born?

I can also back wheel drive the "what if..."
What if Mary hadn't agreed with Angel Gabriel with "be it unto me according to thy word."
and most importantly the word of God (i.e. 10 prophecies) had spoken of this before Jesus was born

Dragonking: Thats why jesus gave judas the morsel for satan to enter into him..
SO it wasnt Judas fault that he betrayed jesus...
Judas is actually indirectly innocent come to think of it.

shdemidemi: God bless you bro...

Whose fault was it then.
Who allowed the devil to take advantage?
Why couldn't it have being Peter, John, Mark, Luke etc etc?
Or maybe either of you?

shdemidemi: God knew this bit, it was written in black and white but the Jews had no clue that they were about to play out Genesis 12:2. The Jews were naturally zealous but they lacked knowledge, they were so blind to the truth that they fulfilled to detail the way Jesus was to be killed. Even till this day an average Jew does not see a gentile as being a part of God, they still hold fast to their bloodline, customs and their heritage.


Atonement for sin that was done by the Jews was more like sweeping their sins under a carpet. Their sins was not completely removed but covered until the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The condition for salvation for the Jews who lived after the gospel was preached by apostle Paul was to believe in the death, burial and resurrection.

Can you leave Christ as a Christian?

I know about the way in, I have never heard about a way out of Christ, have you?

We've been here before bro
If one is truly in Christ, one can't get out
How where and/or when did Judas get to be "in"?

shdemidemi: In fact, Jesus was more or less telling judas to go betray him quickly.
Who in their right sense would go on with a thing like that even when it seem they have been busted.

We are going round the block again, are we now bro?
We've being round here before bro, haven't we...
Someone worldly and deluded thinking he'll have a prominent role or part in the earthly rulership Jesus will establish
after resisting the temple guards coming to arrest him and overthrowing the Romans
Someone thinking he was doing Jesus a favour, especially when he thinks Jesus is eager to get things started

shdemidemi: Even before the birth of Christ, God gave the Jews a way to atone for their sins...
What was needed by a Jew to be saved before the death of Jesus was for them to believe Jesus is the son of God.
This was the same news Jesus told the disciples (judas inclusive) to preach to only the Jews,
he also admonished them not to go to Samaritans nor Gentiles.

After Calvary the entire special treatment for the Jews seized..
The entire world had to be saved based on the redemptive sacrifice.

Did any of His special disciple leave Him?

Bro whoa whoa whoa LOL
The Jews were the starting block to the entire world (i.e. Genesis 12:2 and Genesis 22:18)
Until Calvary, God gave the Jews animal burnt offering to atone for their sins (i.e. here you go again trying to pull a fast one)

Ah- ha, are you suggesting a will (i.e. the new testament) was executed before His death
He admonished them not to go to Samaritans nor Gentiles because the time wasn't right (i.e. it was pre-Calvary)

Judas left Him

shdemidemi: Judas became righteous the moment he was called by Christ.

He became a part of Christ when He followed the saviour by believed in Him.

Like judas, do you also fall into sinful acts, no matter how small you think such sins are worth?

Haba bro! Only you, only you said all these.

Judas? Became righteous? When? How? Before or after Calvary?
Also have you forgotten that Jesus had other disciples too followed Him?
It is not about human effort you know

⁶³The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing.
And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
⁶⁴But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) ⁶⁵Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.”
⁶⁶At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him.
⁶⁷Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?”
- John 6:63-67 NLT

Of course, don't we all, which is why Hebrews 4:16 is handy

shdemidemi: May be I should make the question clearer... If judas isn't good thus deserving to perish, who in the world is better than judas, are you?

"Caiaphas was a high priest, he was a Jew but judgement came upon the Jew when Jesus came.
They had to accept Jesus to be on God's side and God's new programme (judas did that) "- shdemidemi

Maybe the air will be clearer when you tell how Judas is good
and thus doesn't deserve to perish
How, when and where Judas accepted to be on God's side
- Judas that fraternized with Caiaphas & Co.

as for whether am I better than Judas or not, time will tell besides America God will know

shdemidemi: Noted! You did not exactly answer my question though.

Now, who is truly in Christ by your standard?

Good that you noted,
but I did somehow point out the direction for answer(s).
From those verses provided, deductive reasoning or logical deduction gives the answer(s)
and besides, my standard does not count
I never fall for that "by your standard" ploy
as my standard, even if it tries, wont be able to stand on its legs
Sorry bro, my standard doesn't have the chance of ice in hell

shdemidemi: What do you mean by being 'truly in Christ'?

Good question bro,
since the crux of your disagreement was over Judas (i.e. I think it is over Judas)
let's put what "truly in Christ" means in relation to Judas and beam the light on him
particularly, noting where he was fraternizing with the world to make the deduction(s). Shall we?

⁴You adulterers!a Don’t you realize that friendship with the world makes you an enemy of God?
I say it again: If you want to be a friend of the world, you make yourself an enemy of God.
⁵What do you think the Scriptures mean when they say that the spirit God has placed within us is filled with envy?
⁶But he gives us even more grace to stand against such evil desires. As the Scriptures say,
“God opposes the proud but favors the humble.”
⁷So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you
- James 4:4-7 NLT

"No one can serve two masters,
because either he will hate one and love the other, or be loyal to one and despise the other.
You cannot serve God and riches!"
- Matthew 6:24 ISV

"No one can serve two masters.
For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other.
You cannot serve both God and money."
- Luke 16:13 NLT

shdemidemi: No... I am not, it's actually far from it.
If you must understand the Old Testament,
beyond the moral stories you might try to deduce, you Must see God/Christ in every story.

It isn't as if you have to accept but you must take note and give it a thought.

Bro, where ever you see sin, death is imminent.
Like I said earlier the blood saved Israel from the spirit of death, the same way it saves you and I from death at the cross.

I thought Jesus had already condemned sin and death in the flesh or did he?

The question is if this wage of sin which is death apply to anyone in Christ?

Bro show where in all my posts on this thread where I've denied Christ in every facet of the bible
Show me where I've denied that events in the OT is a shadow of the NT
I only pointed out to you that you're crossing lines over imaginary points (i.e. hallucinations you see as a shadow)
Joseph is a shadow of Jesus Christ, no doubt, and that as far as it ends
but now you are trying strenuously to incorporate Judas,
using a 12 disciples of Jesus with 11 brothers of Joseph picture,
to declare or make Judas righteous in the sight of God
(i.e. like he deserves a well-done-my-boy pat on the back from God)


"I thought Jesus had already condemned sin and death in the flesh or did he?" - shdemidemi
Yes you thought right bro, which is why I am repeating again myself below here:

Sin was the item, sin was what God was all along set out to tackle and out rightly deal with.
When sin, in all it's might and glory fully runs it's course (i.e. there wouldn't be anything more left in sin to thrust out or inflict)
then God, will do the needful, step in etc etc and ultimately there will be sin no more

Sin was the original reason, why Adam & Eve were created and left alone in Eden with the tree of the knowledge of good & evil.
Jesus on the cross at Calvary, has redeemed us from that power of sin and conquered death too.
We are (i.e. God now is) waiting for sin and evil to run it's full course

"where ever you see sin, death is imminent.
Like I said earlier the blood saved Israel from the spirit of death,
the same way it saves you and I from death at the cross" - shdemidemi

Show me bro where I've said otherwise to the above or anything contrary to what you've posted
I did say, sin is the transgression of the law (i.e. disobeying an expressly defined order is sin)
and death consequently is the payment for sin.

"The question is if this wage of sin which is death apply to anyone in Christ?" - shdemidemi

The simple & straight forward answer to that question is:
If anyone is truly in Christ as you've put forward,
then, that one is born from above
that one has already died
and that one will not partake in the second death

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new
- 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJ Bible

shdemidemi: Bro, they had their stories and the story went on..
We are not looking at what they did or how they died but how we can do a Christ centered learning and teaching of the old.

The blood of Christ was also demonstrated when Israelites were told to put the blood of lambs on lintels and doors.
We can't follow the story literally but see Christ and God's plan even from back then.

No, I wouldn't want to do that, my mistake. Jacob had 12 sons and 1 daughter, didn't he?

You're doing an eisegesis and not an exegesis
with "how we can do a Christ centered learning and teaching of the old"
and that's why you mistook 11 for 12 brothers

The blood of lambs on lintels and doors of the Israelites in Goshen was to protect them from wrath of the Angel of Death that will pass through the land to strike down the Egyptians
Jesus is our Passover Lamb to protect whomsoever believes from the sting of death, which is sin and so in effect from the power of sin.

Sin was the item, sin was what God was all along set out to tackle and out rightly deal with.
When sin, in all it's might and glory fully runs it's course (i.e. there wouldn't be anything more left in sin to thrust out or inflict)
then God, will do the needful, step in etc etc and ultimately there will be sin no more

We all know that the wages of sin is death, right
but by the time, sin will be no more (i.e. Revelation 21:4), death would have gone past it's sell-by date
and so it ends up in the lake of fire

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more,
neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore,
for the former things have passed away.”
- Revelation 21:4 ESV

shdemidemi: I think the two stories fit, almost like hands in gloves.
If we must read the Old Testament with the eye of the new, I see Joseph as a shadow of Christ in that story.

He was betrayed by his family but he forgave knowing fully well that it was all God's doing.

I think caiaphas was a high priest, he was a Jew but judgement came upon the Jew when Jesus came.
They had to accept Jesus to be on God's side and God's new programme (judas did that).
The church is the present people of God, we are the spiritual Jew who worship in spirit and not by the flesh nor the letter.

One word: Hallucination

shdemidemi: We can actually draw an exact picture of what happened to Jesus from the life of Joseph.
Like Jesus with twelve disciples, Joseph had twelve brothers.
Like Joseph was betrayed by his brothers and sold, Jesus was also betrayed and sold.
Like Joseph that went to prepare a place for his people, Jesus also went to prepare a place for us.

Joseph saw his brothers who betrayed him, he embraced them and told them how they thought it for evil but how God saw it as good. May be if Joseph had killed his brothers in Egypt, I might be inclined to accept that Jesus will also punish judas eternally.

The glaring difference in that picture is that:
Joseph was betrayed and sold but not killed
Jesus was betrayed and sold but killed
and as I earlier posted that picture was the beginning of the Genesis 15:13 prophecy told Abram

Then the LORD said to Abram,
"You can be sure that your descendants will be strangers in a foreign land, where they will be oppressed as slaves for 400 years"
- Genesis 15:13 NLT

and please don't try and pull the wool over our eyes
as Joseph had eleven brothers and not twelve brothers
Ah-ha. What you playing at, what you up to playing a stunt like that, eh?
One shouldn't be caught napping with you LOL
Get the facts and truth right bro

shdemidemi: So, you think a Christian who commits evil today is hell bound, right?

The verse 12 of this chapter was not referring to judas at all but the son of perdition himself, the devil.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Be careful with the translations bro, some can be misleading.

No, not a real Christian, as a real Christian won't commit evil.

So the devil too was given to Jesus to keep, right?

Aw, c'mon bro, this is not the part where you play the translation cards now

I bet these too are misleading:
Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me
- Psalms 41:9 NIV

"I am not saying these things to all of you; I know the ones I have chosen.
But this fulfills the Scripture that says,
'The one who eats my food has turned against me.'
- John 13:18 NLT

Where or when does all this end eh?
What of Caiaphas?
- He was a Jew too going by your line of reasoning