₦airaland Forum

emperortony: I haven't read the said post you referred me to, will do that later. And yes you are right the sadducees and pharisees are like "men of God" or more like keepers of the law. Like I said during my first independent post I figuratively employed that scripture, so as to make the non-tithers let us pay our tithes and not try to make us become like them. "If they won't pay, they shouldn't try to stop those who are ready to pay" this is the point I wanted to make with that scripture and not the original "heaven's meaning as denoted in the passage".
I personally don't believe the consequences of not paying tithe is hell. I hardly make post as well cause most of the time it result to e-fighting and derogatory remark. So try to get my point let the tithers pay their tithe and the non-tither abstain from it, A man has the right to make up his mind. So creating a tract to discourage a man from tithing, I feel its an infringement and that was the major reason why I left my "sit down look" stance to drop a comment. It may not be worthwhile like you tags my 1st post, but at least I tried.

People want to pay tithes, no one has an issue with that, fair enough
This is why no one is stopping or preventing such from continuing paying tithes

What most are saying is, such do not have to continue paying tithes (i.e. be bound by the law)
this is because Jesus had already settled the law and tithe at Golgotha,
unless tithe payers want to claim otherwise, that Jesus did not do such on the Cross for tithe.

One is now free of the law and of course tithe
and now liberated to exercise this freedom of willing and cheerful giving (i.e. no more to be done under compulsion)
No more mechanical giving, no enforcement/reminder, no intimidation with hell or otherwise if not tithing etc etc

Tithing is flesh, ego-centric, planned, rigid and self-gratifying
whereas free giving is spirit, spontaneous, impromptu, unplanned and uninhibited

One actually offers more, giving freely than tithing

emperortony: Yes, that was why I quoted this scripture Matt.23:13 reads..“How
terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees!
You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom
of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves
don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are
trying to enter! Go in" another annoying statement they make I quote " so if I am now receiving 10m my tithe will now me 1m" imagine they've not even started receiving the said money they are now looking @ the tithe with contempt. I imagine God on his throne saying, this one I will never allow to earn 10m cause he is already stingy with his thoughts. Is it not better to receive 10m and you pay a tithe of 1m, than to receive, 1m and not pay a tithe at all? If that is termed gullible, then chai--- I want to be gullible for the rest of my unexplainable but undeniable blessed life.

^^^
What you've quoted is before Calvary,
and so neither here or there
Jesus paid for the law and tithes on the Cross

Bidam: The guy never called it a paradox. It was your IDEA to defend his lie. Why not wait for him to comment on it.

This also is a lie. Zakat by the muslims is done after the completion of the ramadam fast as an obligatory RITUAL for those who received their wealth from Allah for the poor and this is ONCE a year and is different from the normal offerings you are comparing in 2 cor 9:6-7 whenever Christians gather.

^^^
I agree
... america the muslims will know, if it is compulsory to pay when paying a zakat would cause genuine hardship to self or family
... america the muslims will know, also whether or not the Koran Quran stipulates or gives a hint of a fixed rate (e.g. similar to tithes 10%)

Bidam: The guy said voluntary..
Use your dico to find the difference between voluntary and compulsory.
Read posts properly before commenting.

I did all the above properly before commenting Bidam

The voluntary there, is a paradox (i.e. the voluntary seems to contradict the obligatory part of the exercise)
because just as mentioned in my previous post
Zakat is similar to the 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 charitable giving (i.e. not tithe) advised for Christians which too is voluntary
but is only compulsory/obligatory for all who are able to do so

EMILO2STAY: my brother lets not argue over this...its a well known fact that catholics dont pay tithe neither do their priest preach tithe from malachi 3.8,
i was born and baptized into the catholic church so u are not talking to a novice,
i am aware in recent times some fraudulent priest in nigeria intruduced tithe to the catholic church but that is not a catholic doctrine .

The zakat in islam is simply voluntary alms giving for charity purpose and not compulsory 10% of their income.

Bidam: This is a BIG LIE. The zakat as one of the fundamental 3rd pillars of islam is OBLIGATORY in nature and COMPULSORY for all muslims.

Pls do make your research properly before posting falsehoods on a world wide web.Thanks.

^^^
EMILO2STAY is right on this one.

Zakat is compulsory, just like charitable giving to Christians is compulsory
Zakat unlike tithing is not fixed (i.e. Koran does not specify the percentages to be given)

Each Muslim calculates individually how much his or her own zakah will be
just as each Christian calculates individually how his or her own charitable giving will be

Zakat (Arabic: زكاة‎ [zæˈkæːt] or alms-giving
is the practice of charitable giving by Muslims based on accumulated wealth,
and is obligatory for all who are able to do so

Zakat is similar to the 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 charitable giving (i.e. not tithe) advised for Christians based on accumulated wealth
which too is only obligatory for all who are able to do so

Zakat is alms-giving and does not necessarily involve money (i.e. doesn't have to be money or 10% of money)
and is similar or just like the charitable giving advised in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7

https://s4.postimg.org/uzvcotwx9/tithe_False.jpg https://s4.postimg.org/l1ae2cnhp/tithe_j_paid_all.jpg https://s27.postimg.org/8qd6d7ysv/favorite_Tithe_Dream.jpg

TheWholeTruth: The Bible says Adam and Eve were the fisrt two humans and bore Cain and Abel, after which cain slew Abel.
It then says Cain went to live among the people in the land of Nod.
Where did the people in the land of Nod come from?

Kindly check the attached image.

Tallesty1: You are using a wrong bible,
the scripture didn't say that Cain dwelth among the people of nod rather it says that “Cain went out from the presence of the Lord,
((and dwelt in the land of Nod)), on the east of Eden.
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore Enoch:
and ((he built a city, and he called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch)).”.

It might interest you to know that Cain before he slew his brother, had married a wife, the both fled to nod, had a child and built a city.

Scripture didn't say that they met the inhabitants of nod, they are the first inhabitants of nod.

With a smug or mischievous smile, he indeed misquoted the bible (i.e. was using a wrong bible)

In addition to endorsing 100% all Tallesty1 has written above

"Nod" (נוד) is the Hebrew root of the verb "to wander" (לנדוד)

The Land of Nod (Hebrew: eretz-Nod‎, ארץ נוד) as the noun and Moses implies is:
the land Cain arrived in living as a vagrant or nomad:
Cain was always on the move, constantly drifting, roaming, wandering, travelling etc
He lived the life of a vagabond, wandering from place to place without a home (i.e. total homelessness)
until when he built a city named after his son

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size]

INTRODUCTION

This is a disclaimer, if you become repulsed by what you are about to read,
the revulsion should not be directed at this thread
but rather be re-directed at WoF's direction
because this in every respect, is what JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) is, to WoF
and in every way, it also is how WoF teaches the JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) doctrine.

"The Distortion of the Cross" earlier examined really is a púššycát when compared with JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually doctrine)
"The Distortion of the Cross" is mellow and tamed here whereas JDS is over-the-top and wild

JDS à-la WoF doctrine is graphical, gory, dark, shady and sinister
WoF's version of event without a shadow of doubt is founded on something made up, dreamed up or learned incorrectly
Without a doubt "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" definitely is "The Distortion of the Cross" pumped up with steroids.

This doctrine like "The Distortion of the Cross" was widely actively taught by all in the WoF movement until recently,
the wiser ones in the movement have stopped actively teaching JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) doctrine,
however some in the Hagin camp and the Copelands still fervently believe and teach JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) à-la WoF

What is JDS doctrine à-la WoF?

The following are a few of what and/or how WoF teaches JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) doctrine:
1) That the physical death of Jesus on the Cross amounted to nothing
(i.e. that the blood He shed on the Cross was not a good enough price to atone for our sins)
1b) That Jesus paid for our sins on the Cross and in Hell (i.e. Gehenna in Greek)(note: only one individual in WoF taught this)
2) That when Jesus died spiritually on the Cross, He became a sinner (i.e. and He had Satan’s nature)
3) That the plan of redemption started after Jesus said “It is FINISHED”
4) That Hell (i.e. Gehenna in Greek) is the origin of sin
5) That Jesus stopped being God (i.e. the Son of God)
6) That Satan took Jesus' spirit, as a sinner to Hell (i.e. Gehenna in Greek) and He was held ransom there
(i.e. Satan has to be paid for Jesus' release)
7) That Jesus was reincarnated (i.e. He was reborn in another body) in Hell (i.e. Gehenna in Greek)
8') That for 3 days and 3 nights, Jesus was kept in Hell under punishment, mocked and tortured by Satan and demons for our sins
9) That the church was formed in Hell (i.e. Gehenna in Greek)

IF READNG ON PHONE, TO AVOID FLIPPING BACK AND FORTH,
A SEPARATE BIBLE IS ADVISED/NEEDED TO FOLLOW ALONG WITH THIS DISCUSSION

We are now going to examine a few exhibits showing what some in the WoF movement say/said
when teaching the JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) doctrine:

https://s12.postimg.org/90xibawql/Satan_Tare_ccc.jpg

Kenneth Hagin states:
“…just as receiving eternal life means that we have the nature of God in us,
spiritual death means having Satan’s nature.”
(K. Hagin, Redeemed, Tulsa, OK, Faith Library, 1966, p.29)

“spiritual death means something more than separation from God.
Spiritual death also means having Satan’s nature…
Jesus tasted death–spiritual death–for every man.”
(K. Hagin, The Name of Jesus, 1981 p.31)

Kenneth Hagin again states,
“He (Jesus) tasted spiritual death for every man.
And his spirit and inner man went to hell in my place. Can’t you see that?
PHYSICAL DEATH WOULDN’T REMOVE YOUR SINS.
He tasted death for every man. He’s talking about spiritual death.”
(How Jesus obtained his name tape # 44HO1 side 1)

Kenneth Copeland saying:
“The plan of redemption BEGAN when Jesus said “It is FINISHED” (Classic Redemption, p.13)

“Jesus death on the cross was not enough to save us.”
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303), (Believer's Voice of Victory, September 1991)

“When Jesus cried “It is finished!” He was not speaking of the plan of redemption.
There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne.
He was referring to the Abrahamic Covenant.
Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption”
(Kenneth Copeland, “Jesus – Our Lord of Glory”, ( Believer’s Voice of Victory, April, 1982, p. 3).

“… Jesus died two deaths. He died physically and He died spiritually.
When Jesus was made to be sin, He was separated from God…
When His blood poured out, it did not atone.
It did away with the handwriting of the ordinances that were against us…
Jesus spent three horrible days and nights in the bowels of this earth getting back for you and me our rights with God…”
(Kenneth Copeland doctrinal statement dated March 12, 1979)

“When His blood poured out it did not atone.”
(Kenneth Copeland: From a personal letter to D.R.McConnell, dated 12/3/79. Cited in A Different Gospel, p.120)

Jesus had to “accept the sin nature of Satan.”
(Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, side 2.)

“Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions of hell”
(Kenneth Copeland, Holy Bible: Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition 1991 p.129.)

“He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell….
He allowed Himself to come under Satan’s control…
every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him….
They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived.
For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer.”
(Kenneth Copeland, “The Price of It All,” 3.)

Copeland again states:
“I can't understand Christians that refuse to believe that Jesus went to hell.
I want to tell you something if he didn't go, you're going to have to.”
(The Christian Channel Europe Believer's Voice of Victory May 1998)

“For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer.
Some people don’t want to believe that.
They want to believe that after His death, Jesus just stayed in that upper region of Sheol
that the Bible calls paradise, but they’re mistaken!
If He had simply stayed there, there would have been no price paid for sin.”
(Believer’s Voice of Victory, Vol. 19, No. 9, Sept. 1991)

“it must be preached because it's ... the Truth and it sets people free.”
“The day that Jesus was crucified, God's life, that eternal energy ..
moved out of Him and He allowed the devil to drag him into the depths of hell as if He were the most wicked sinner who ever lived..
[and] to come under Satan's control .. [or] His body would have never died. ...”
( Believer's Voice of Victory, quoted in Berean call September, 1991)

Copeland states:
“Jesus was reborn in the pits of hell.”
(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne)

”He was the first man to ever be born again from sin to the righteousness of God. Hallelujah !!!
(Copeland 24/09/97 video)

Charles Capp writes:
“Jesus was born again in the pit of hell. He was the firstborn, the first begotten, from the dead.
He started the Church of the firstborn in the gates of hell...
He went down to the gates and started His Church there....
The Church started when Jesus was born again in the gates of hell.”
(C.Capps, Authority in Three Worlds, op. cit. p.212-213)

Benny Hinn says:
“Ladies and gentlemen, the serpent is a symbol of Satan.
Jesus Christ knew the only way He would stop Satan is by becoming one in nature with him.
You say, 'What did you say? What blasphemy is this?' No, you hear this! He did not take my sin; He became my sin.
Sin is the nature of hell. Sin is what made Satan...It was sin that made Satan.
Jesus said, 'I'll be sin! I'll go to the lowest place! I'll go to the origin of it!
I won't just take part in it, I'll be the totality of it!' “
(Benny Hinn program, TBN, 12/15/90 )

Frederick K. C. Price saying:
“Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross?
If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid our price.
No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God...
Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound
and they threw a net over Jesus
and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence"
(Frederick K. C. Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messenger Newsletter, June 1990, p. 7)

Creflo Dollar saying:
“He’s got to look like a sinner. Or they’re not going to receive Him into hell, you’ve got to be a sinner.
He’s got to somehow look like that serpent on that stick in Moses’ day.
He’s got to look like a serpent in order to be taken in.
And Jesus who had never sinned, made an exchange with His covenant partner.
He says “Let Me wear your coat of sin. It’ll make Me look like a sinner.
I’ve never sinned, but if I can put your coat of sin on,
when I get back I’m going to give you my coat of righteousness.
So The bible says that He who had not sinned was made sin.
(Our Equality with God Through Righteousness 1/21/2001)

Creflo Dollar again saying:
“So now Jesus entered in legally into hell. But He was there illegally.
Because once you get to hell there’s got to be some record of your sin.
Now He had to stay there 3 days and 3 nights.
You better hope He went to hell because if He didn’t go you and I would have to.
You better hope He became every sickness, disease and depression
and every piece of mess in the world
because whatever He didn’t become you and I would have to become ”
(Our Equality with God Through Righteousness 1/21/2001)

Joyce Meyer writes quote:
“During that time he entered hell where you and I deserved to go because of our sin.
He paid the price there. No plan was too extreme. Jesus paid on the cross and in hell.”
(1991 Booklet called The Most Important Decision you Will Ever Make)

Joyce Meyer says:
“The Devil thought he had it, the devil thought he had won.
Oh they were having the biggest party that has ever been had.
They had my Jesus on the floor and they were standing on his back jumping up and down laughing and he had become sin.
Don’t you think that God was pacing wanting to put a stop to what was going on.
All the hosts of hell were up on him, up on him, up on him. The angels are in agony, all the creation is groaning.
All the hosts of hell was up on him, up on him, they got on him.
They got him down in the floor and got on him and they were laughing
and mocking, “haha you trusted God and look where you ended up.
You thought he would save you and get you off that cross – he didn’t haha.”
(Jesus Tormented in Hell by Satan and Demons audio clip)

“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting.
You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”
(1991 Booklet called The Most Important Decision you Will Ever Make)

Joyce Meyer writes:
“He could have helped himself up until the point where he said I commend my spirit into your hands,
at that point he couldn’t do nothing for himself anymore.
He had become sin, he was no longer the Son of God. He was sin.”
(Jesus Became Sin and Died Spiritually and Ceased to be the Son of God on the Cross audio clip)

Joyce Meyer says again:
“And in Luke 23:43 “Jesus said unto him, “I say unto you today you shall be in paradise with me.
There is no punctuation in the original translations of the Bible.
We have punctuated it and in this particular scripture it was punctuated wrong.
They put in there I say unto you comma today you shall be in paradise with me.
Making it appear that the minute Jesus died on the cross he went straight to paradise.
No, no, no he did not. The way it should read is I say unto you today comma I am telling you this today.
Today I am telling you that you are going to be in paradise with me.
But he didn’t say you are going to be there today, he said I am telling you this today.”
(Misinterpretation of Luke 23:43 Joyce Meyer audio clip)

https://s12.postimg.org/53a8lw9x9/JDScopeland_fe.jpg

It is hoped that after reading all the submissions on F6: JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually),
we all (i.e. posters and readers) would have learned a thing or two, would have become wiser and be

- able to see what is JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) according to the WoF movement
- able to see a sample of who-is-who in WoF, taught JDS, how was JDS taught,
what was taught on JDS, where was JDS taught,
when was JDS taught and why was JDS taught this way (i.e. why taught in this manner Hebrews 10:29, Philippians 3:18)
- able to see all the errors and flaws in WoF's JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) doctrinal version
(i.e. Colossians 2:15, 1 Peter 2:21-22, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Luke 23:43)
- able to see what inspired this WoF's version of JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) doctrine
- able to see, in the true sense, what the CORRECT & REAL JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) is,
see where, how & when JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually) happened
(i.e. from Wednesday noon - 3pm 3-hours darkness - Luke 23:44, the Greek word forsaken means left, abandoned me; Jesus' cry, "Why have you forsaken me?" - * Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34, Psalm 22:1)
- able to see why and what the darkness was all about (i.e. Exodus 10:21-23, Exodus 30:10, Matthew 27:45, Luke 16:24, Luke 23:45 )
- able to CORRECTLY see where, how & when Jesus resurrected spiritually,
(i.e. John 19:28, John 19:30, into your hands comit my spirit Luke 23:46, 1 Peter 3:18, Rev. 1:18 )
- able to see, when Jesus died physically (i.e. on Wednesday 3pm or mid afternoon - Mark 15:37, Matthew 27:50-51 temple veil torn)
- able to see, when Jesus resurrected physically (i.e. on Sunday morning - Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, 1 Corinthians 15:4, Acts 2:31)
- able to see, that it is blood of Christ and His spiritual death on the cross
which provided:
redemption (i.e. Ephesians 1:7, 1 Peter 2:24, Hebrews 10:17-18, Col 2:13-14),
expiation/atonement (i.e. Hebrews 9:22, *2 Corinthians 5:21, Isaiah 53:12)
propitiation (i.e. 1 John 2:2, Rom 3:19-20, Romans 3:25-26),
and reconciliation for every man (i.e. 1 Corinthians 2:2, Ephesians 2:13)
- able to see, that all things were accomplished and all ended at the cross (i.e. John 19:28)
- able to see that it took 3 hours of separation and not WoF's 3 days and 3 nights, to pay off the price for our sins.
- able to see how Jesus, not in hell (i.e. Gehenna in Greek), but at the cross bruised the serpent's head
(i.e. John 19:17, Mark 15:22, Matthew 27:33, Luke 23:33)
- able to see some of Jesus' enduring experience or period (i.e. Psalm 69:21, Psalm 22:11-21, John 19:28 compare with Luke 16:23-24)
- able to see that Jesus was in Sheol (i.e. Hades in Greek) and not in Hell (i.e. Gehenna in Greek) according to WoF
(i.e. 1 Samuel 2:6, Psalm 141:7, Acts 2:27, John 19:28 compare with Luke 16:23-24)
- able to see that it is through Jesus' death (i.e. not His resurrection) on the cross that life came to us
(i.e. "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! - John 1:29, Hebrews 9:7, Hebrews 9:15-16, Hebrews 9:26-28)
- able to see that as the old Passover lamb was a sacrifice for the ransom of the firstborn sons of Israel
so Jesus was the Passover Lamb, a ransom for all (i.e. Exodus 30:10, Matthew 20:28, 1 Timothy 2:6)
- able to see Jesus had no blemishes, no sin (i.e. Leviticus 22:20, 1 Peter 1:19)
- able to see when and where the church was formed (i.e. Acts 2:4)
- able to see that there are differences between Sheol/Hades, Gehenna (i.e. hell) and the lake of fire
(i.e. Luke 16:23, 25, Luke 23:43, Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18, Matthew 25:41, Rev. 1:18)

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size]

biodunid: “We have all the documents which Moniaye has submitted to us.
He will get a redress of his case with a little patience.
We ourselves could feel his pulse with facts on the documents.
But you know for now it is still one sided until we get the other side (from the UK church).”

^^^

https://s9.postimg.org/y560cxslb/Ayadi_RCCG.jpg
Ayadi Moniaye, Nigerian man based in UK
accuses RCCG Church in Manchester of Brainwashing Women

"Truth is violated by falsehood, but it is outraged by silence."
- Henri-Frederic Amiel, Swiss philosopher

babagnoni: ...The priests and the pastors reasoned that if Jesus’ ministry was not terminated with extreme prejudice,
they would soon lose their privileged status in society.

They were convinced that if Jesus was not silenced,
all the people they had kept in spiritual bondage would be set at liberty.

The more Jesus preached, the more people came to see the light.
The more he preached, the more he opened prison doors.
The more he preached, the less regard the people had for their pastors.
Therefore, they had to kill him in order to protect their selfish interests.

After he died, they put the people back into captivity by claiming he died for their sins.
In truth, they killed him in the bid to cover their own sins.
They reasoned that a dead Jesus would cease to be a threat to their churches of lies and falsehood...

The killing of Jesus in churches doesn't seem abated, not even now in the 21st century

“And you do not consider that is profitable for us
that one man should die instead of the nation,
and not that the whole nation perish.”
- John 11:50 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

(Now it was Pastor Caiaphas who had advised the other pastors Jewish leaders
that it was to their advantage that one man die for the people.)
- John 18:14 NET Bible

Gombs: Go to google cache...and extract the Word of Faith thread...page 7 I think...knock urself out

Let's not derail

^^^
It hasn't gotten to that
That's why I first said "No altercations..." don't knock yourself out
Thanks all the same.

Gombs: he made a special monumental blunder within dat time frame...

notable of it is when he said the new creation came at the cross, n not after d resurrection.

oic...
Please may I know why and how you arrived at and concluded that "the new creation did not come at the cross"?
Also, please can I have the scripture(s) to perform a Berean on what you based "new creation came after the resurrection" on?

No altercations, just want to gain an understanding of this stance.
Thank you Gombs in advance.

Before I present this article, I want to say upfront that I do not agree with everything Femi Aribisala writes.
I think among other issues, his rejection of Apostle Paul's epistles as inspired scripture is error.
Nevertheless what he has to say on the blind reliance on our leading, favorite or sentimentally attached-to Pastors is very instructive and there are things to learn from it.
The article also ties in to some extent what so far, has being discussed on another thread:
(i.e. https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24325823)

[size=16pt]FEMI ARIBISALA ARTICLE ON
BEWARE OF LEADING, FAVORITE OR SENTIMENTALLY ATTACHED-TO PASTORS[/size]

^{Pastors are Jesus Killers
on July 13, 2014 / in Article of Faith 12:43 am
By Femi Aribisala}

It is these pastors that decided to sacrifice Jesus. And their descendants are the pastors currently running our churches.

Jesus is our redeemer. But from whom exactly does he redeem us? Does it make sense to presume he redeems us from God?

Some terrorists kidnapped a rich man’s children and held them hostage; asking for a ransom before they could be released? When the incident was reported in the press, they said it was their father who kidnapped them. That is ludicrous. It only shows the press is controlled by the kidnappers.

A father does not kidnap his own children, demand a ransom for their release and then pay the ransom himself to himself. God is not the wicked one who holds men hostage. But he is the loving Father who ransoms his children. “For the LORD will ransom Jacob and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they. They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion.” (Jeremiah 31:11-12).

It is the devil who keeps men in bondage. It is Jesus who comes to set the captives free. Jesus says: “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:28).

Kinsman-redeemer

Jesus is our kinsman-redeemer. He is the door by which we escape from bondage to eternal life. He is the gate by which we pass from death to life. Jesus says: “(God) has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released, that the blind will see, that the downtrodden will be freed from their oppressors.” (Luke 4:18).

Men are imprisoned by our sins. But God is not our jailer. God says: “Which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? For your iniquities you have sold yourselves.” (Isaiah 50:1). We are the ones who sell ourselves into bondage; and we sell ourselves to men and not to God.

We are also held in bondage because of our ignorance. God says: “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” (Hosea 4:6). Therefore, Jesus promises to provide the knowledge that opens the prison-doors to those in captivity. He says: “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32).

Jesus redeems us from the wicked. God says: “Among my people are found wicked men; they lie in wait as one who sets snares; they set a trap; they catch men.” (Jeremiah 5:26). Wicked men, acting knowingly or unknowingly as the agents of the devil, hold other men in bondage to sin.

Therefore, Jesus gives charge to the redeemed to redeem others: “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues.” (Matthew 10:16-17).

Ferocious wolves

It is important to determine the precise identity of those wolves that are of the utmost concern to Jesus here. According to him, they are “ferocious” although in “sheep’s clothing.” (Matthew 7:15). They have their own synagogues and even refer to Jesus as “Lord.” But this means nothing. Jesus says: “By their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:20-21).

That means today they will be Christians, for Christians are the ones who proclaim Jesus as Lord. Indeed, these wolves are most likely to be the pastors of our churches. Jesus says: “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.” (John 10:10). What the thief steals, kills and destroys is our very relationship with God. Jesus reveals that God himself is defined by the resurrection of that destroyed relationship. (John 11:25). Jesus is the giver of the life of eternal fellowship with God. Thus, Jesus declares: “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” (John 10:10).

The key people who steal God from our hearts are our priests and pastors. They are the ones who are determined to displace God and become the gods of our lives. They are the ones who fill our heads with false notions about God. They use the name of God to rob us blind. They use religion to turn us into zombies. “They are as greedy as dogs, never satisfied. They are stupid pastors, all following their own path, all of them intent on personal gain.” (Isaiah 56:11).

Jesus’ life is the ransom given to redeem us from these pastors who shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for they won’t enter or let others enter.” (Matthew 23:13). Jesus himself was hounded by these evil men. It was these men: the chief priests and the scribes; the pastors and bishops and popes of Jesus’ day, who plotted against him and handed him over to the Roman authorities to be killed. (Mark 10:32-34).

Jesus killers

Then and now, it is these pastors that are the thieves and the robbers of God in our lives. Then and now, it is these pastors that are Jesus killers. It is these pastors that decided to sacrifice Jesus. And their descendants are the pastors currently running our churches.

Jesus endangered the exalted positions of these evil men. He subjected them to ridicule. He provided original interpretations of the Law of Moses contrary to theirs. He disrupted their sacrificial system in the temple. Moreover, God backed up his words with great signs and wonders. The priests and the pastors reasoned that if Jesus’ ministry was not terminated with extreme prejudice, they would soon lose their privileged status in society.

They were convinced that if Jesus was not silenced, all the people they had kept in spiritual bondage would be set at liberty. The more Jesus preached, the more people came to see the light. The more he preached, the more he opened prison doors. The more he preached, the less regard the people had for their pastors. Therefore, they had to kill him in order to protect their selfish interests.

After he died, they put the people back into captivity by claiming he died for their sins. In truth, they killed him in the bid to cover their own sins. They reasoned that a dead Jesus would cease to be a threat to their churches of lies and falsehood. But then God confounded their plans by raising Jesus gloriously from the dead.

Whose report?

Jesus healed a sick man by telling him to get up and carry his bed. However, the priests said it is unlawful to carry a bed on the Sabbath. Whose report should he believe? The redeemed must believe the report of the Lord. It is the Lord who ransoms us from the power of the grave; and redeems us from death. (Hosea 13:14). Therefore the healed of the Lord should beware of the hypocrisy of those who now sit in Moses’ seat.

Jesus warns:
“Do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.” (Matthew 23:3-4).

- See more at: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/07/pastors-jesus-killers/#sthash.tBfRi0J4.dpuf

Before I present this article, I want to say upfront that I do not agree with everything Femi Aribisala writes.
I think among other issues, his rejection of Apostle Paul's epistles as inspired scripture is error.
Nevertheless what he has to say on the blind reliance on our leading, favorite or sentimentally attached-to Pastors is very instructive and there are things to learn from it.
The article also ties in to some extent what so far, has being discussed on this thread:

[size=16pt]FEMI ARIBISALA ARTICLE ON
BEWARE OF LEADING, FAVORITE OR SENTIMENTALLY ATTACHED-TO PASTORS[/size]

^{Pastors are Jesus Killers
on July 13, 2014 / in Article of Faith 12:43 am
By Femi Aribisala}

It is these pastors that decided to sacrifice Jesus. And their descendants are the pastors currently running our churches.

Jesus is our redeemer. But from whom exactly does he redeem us? Does it make sense to presume he redeems us from God?

Some terrorists kidnapped a rich man’s children and held them hostage; asking for a ransom before they could be released? When the incident was reported in the press, they said it was their father who kidnapped them. That is ludicrous. It only shows the press is controlled by the kidnappers.

A father does not kidnap his own children, demand a ransom for their release and then pay the ransom himself to himself. God is not the wicked one who holds men hostage. But he is the loving Father who ransoms his children. “For the LORD will ransom Jacob and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they. They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion.” (Jeremiah 31:11-12).

It is the devil who keeps men in bondage. It is Jesus who comes to set the captives free. Jesus says: “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:28).

Kinsman-redeemer

Jesus is our kinsman-redeemer. He is the door by which we escape from bondage to eternal life. He is the gate by which we pass from death to life. Jesus says: “(God) has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released, that the blind will see, that the downtrodden will be freed from their oppressors.” (Luke 4:18).

Men are imprisoned by our sins. But God is not our jailer. God says: “Which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? For your iniquities you have sold yourselves.” (Isaiah 50:1). We are the ones who sell ourselves into bondage; and we sell ourselves to men and not to God.

We are also held in bondage because of our ignorance. God says: “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” (Hosea 4:6). Therefore, Jesus promises to provide the knowledge that opens the prison-doors to those in captivity. He says: “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32).

Jesus redeems us from the wicked. God says: “Among my people are found wicked men; they lie in wait as one who sets snares; they set a trap; they catch men.” (Jeremiah 5:26). Wicked men, acting knowingly or unknowingly as the agents of the devil, hold other men in bondage to sin.

Therefore, Jesus gives charge to the redeemed to redeem others: “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues.” (Matthew 10:16-17).

Ferocious wolves

It is important to determine the precise identity of those wolves that are of the utmost concern to Jesus here. According to him, they are “ferocious” although in “sheep’s clothing.” (Matthew 7:15). They have their own synagogues and even refer to Jesus as “Lord.” But this means nothing. Jesus says: “By their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:20-21).

That means today they will be Christians, for Christians are the ones who proclaim Jesus as Lord. Indeed, these wolves are most likely to be the pastors of our churches. Jesus says: “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.” (John 10:10). What the thief steals, kills and destroys is our very relationship with God. Jesus reveals that God himself is defined by the resurrection of that destroyed relationship. (John 11:25). Jesus is the giver of the life of eternal fellowship with God. Thus, Jesus declares: “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” (John 10:10).

The key people who steal God from our hearts are our priests and pastors. They are the ones who are determined to displace God and become the gods of our lives. They are the ones who fill our heads with false notions about God. They use the name of God to rob us blind. They use religion to turn us into zombies. “They are as greedy as dogs, never satisfied. They are stupid pastors, all following their own path, all of them intent on personal gain.” (Isaiah 56:11).

Jesus’ life is the ransom given to redeem us from these pastors who shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for they won’t enter or let others enter.” (Matthew 23:13). Jesus himself was hounded by these evil men. It was these men: the chief priests and the scribes; the pastors and bishops and popes of Jesus’ day, who plotted against him and handed him over to the Roman authorities to be killed. (Mark 10:32-34).

Jesus killers

Then and now, it is these pastors that are the thieves and the robbers of God in our lives. Then and now, it is these pastors that are Jesus killers. It is these pastors that decided to sacrifice Jesus. And their descendants are the pastors currently running our churches.

Jesus endangered the exalted positions of these evil men. He subjected them to ridicule. He provided original interpretations of the Law of Moses contrary to theirs. He disrupted their sacrificial system in the temple. Moreover, God backed up his words with great signs and wonders. The priests and the pastors reasoned that if Jesus’ ministry was not terminated with extreme prejudice, they would soon lose their privileged status in society.

They were convinced that if Jesus was not silenced, all the people they had kept in spiritual bondage would be set at liberty. The more Jesus preached, the more people came to see the light. The more he preached, the more he opened prison doors. The more he preached, the less regard the people had for their pastors. Therefore, they had to kill him in order to protect their selfish interests.

After he died, they put the people back into captivity by claiming he died for their sins. In truth, they killed him in the bid to cover their own sins. They reasoned that a dead Jesus would cease to be a threat to their churches of lies and falsehood. But then God confounded their plans by raising Jesus gloriously from the dead.

Whose report?

Jesus healed a sick man by telling him to get up and carry his bed. However, the priests said it is unlawful to carry a bed on the Sabbath. Whose report should he believe? The redeemed must believe the report of the Lord. It is the Lord who ransoms us from the power of the grave; and redeems us from death. (Hosea 13:14). Therefore the healed of the Lord should beware of the hypocrisy of those who now sit in Moses’ seat.

Jesus warns: “Do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.” (Matthew 23:3-4).

- See more at: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/07/pastors-jesus-killers/#sthash.tBfRi0J4.dpuf

^^^
Looks like you've forgotten how to or haven't commissioned a tract for a long time
What are the proposed tract size dimensions?
Examples:
Is it A5?
Or A4 going to be folded in half? etc etc
Refer to below for a heads up
http://www.prepressure.com/library/paper-size

^^^
Not that my hat is thrown in or be thrown in
but this is like saying I want a piece of string
How long really is the piece of string you want (i.e. tract size dimensions please)

LambanoPeace: Very true...
Goshen fell like lightening over the years....he should be very grateful for the data nairaland lost.

[img]http://postimg.org/image/80ujz1f8f/[/img]
...he should be very grateful for a mere only 6-MONTHS data nairaland lost

italo: Nobody called them. Nobody needs to call a scammer.

All the people called in the new testament were ordained by the One Church founded by Christ.

Anybody that ordained himself in his bedroom is a liar and a thief.

Anybody that is ordained by a shop (not the one true Church founded 2000 years ago) is a fool.

Joagbaje: Go to the bible and find who does the calling on ministers.

Hebrews 5:4
And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Goshen360: Every Christian is already called. There's no special calling for any man in the body of Christ. Romans 8:28, 30; Jude 1:1; 1 Peter 5:10; 1 Cor. 1:24 and many more proves every Christian is called but we are "sent" on different assignment.

Joagbaje: That's called to be saints. We are all called to be saints. This is different from the calling into an office of ministry gift. As pastor prophet apostle evangelist and teacher.

There is . God gives different abilities and also There's leadership structure in the kingdom of God. Offices that God call certain into. Everybody is not there . Every Nigeria can't be president but every Nigeria president is a Nigerian .

That different assignment is what the calling is. So there is ability part and there's leadership part.

1 Corinthians 12:28-30
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

They aren't even selected or chosen
They aren't even doing the Father's business

"Why is it that you have been searching for me?"
He replied;
"did you not know that it is my duty to be engaged upon my Father's business?"
- Luke 2:49 Weymouth New Testament

And to those who had been selling doves he said:
“Take these things out of here,
and do not make my Father's house a house of trade.”
- John 2:16 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

It is all wash... Shine your eyes wellu wellu...
They are only after or minding their own bellies incorporation businesses

For many are called, but few are chosen.
- Matthew 22:14 King James Bible

[size=14pt]Is there a need to write/speak against some practices of the WoF movement today? [/size]

The Parable of the Weeds
Matthew 13:24-30

https://s10.postimg.org/tg6chzicp/wheat_tares_c.jpg
The weeds are in the heart
that's where the wheat and tare comes and/or sprouts from

The garden or field is our hearts
and the seed is, either the Word of God
or the lies, from the father of all lies, Satan, the enemy of our souls.

https://s16.postimg.org/lbmskn6sl/weed_Whacker.jpg
Yeah, that is right, the weed is in the field of the heart
which is why we are not called to be the “divine weed-whackers” (i.e. that part of snuffing out, is not part of our remit)
as that final destruction and prerogative, at the right time, is the exclusive right of God

https://s16.postimg.org/am4ien5lx/Seed_Field_c.gif
We are however responsible, and not prevented from distinguishing wheat from tare
We are however responsible, and not prevented from pointing out which plant is wheat, or which is tare
We are however responsible, and not prevented from showing what is wheat, or what is tare
We also however, are responsible and not prevented from warning where wheat seed is coming from, or where tare seed is coming from

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F5: The Distortion of the Cross[/size]

The Distortion of the Cross

This needs no introduction
It is exactly what it says on the tin wrapper before taking it out of the tin-box,
it is "The Distortion of the Cross" nothing more, nothing less.

It is not a doctrine per se or in itself
because "The Distortion of the Cross" actually is the occasional rubbishing of the cross
It is criticizing the cross mildly or severely and rejecting it as worthless

Some of us, I am sure can remember from a former and similar thread, although now defunct,
that this was the one (i.e. The Distortion of the Cross) that caused a bit of brouhaha on that then thread
It was the one Gombs, nlMediator, mbaemeka and others tripped on
(i.e. agreeing that: the cross... is a place of defeat and failure)

"The Distortion of the Cross" in manners like this may sound alarming
but pleased be assured that it is really a púššycát when compared with "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually"

"The Distortion of the Cross" is sparring
it is like making heavy boxing motions without landing blows
but with "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine, it is different kettle of fish

I will adjure you to watch out for the exposé on WoF's "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine
The "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine according to WoF is gory,
WoF distorts what happened to Jesus, distorts how Jesus died, distorts when Jesus spiritually died
distorts when Jesus spiritually resurrected, distorts where we obtained our atonement,
distorts when we obtained our atonement, distorts how we obtained our atonement
WoF literally just hacked down the cross and all that was achieved and accomplished on it.

One does not see any knowledge gap(s) that warrants
or justifies the thinking behind WoF teaching JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually doctrine) the way it teaches it.
The Distortion of the Cross is bad enough as it is, though, it is like a kick in the teeth
but with JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually doctrine) it's mega worse, it is a kick in the gonads
- and it makes one double up in pain, screaming ouch, ouch, ouch.

despite the glaring indications in the bible, you'll be dumbfounded at the length
noticing how WoF got carried away to just bastardize
and distort the whole atonement message for sheer sensationalism and filthy lucre
Some may actually be clueless and just following the herd
or just jumped blindly on the "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine bandwagon.

If one thinks "The Distortion of the Cross" is bad, then trust me "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" is triple X bad
"JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" is definitely "The Distortion of the Cross" on steroids

The "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine is one of the highlights of this "Word of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents" exposé
so as previously advised, we strongly adjure you to watch out for the discussion on WoF's "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine.
There is no defining moment but 100% guaranteed great benefits from following the exposé on WoF's "JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine

Before we delve properly in to "The Distortion of the Cross" we need to address some concerns
Concerns such as those raised by the likes of Ihedinobi2, RedReact, MrAnony1, Image123 and maybe wordthots
(i.e. indirectly raised by wordthots on an old and separate thread)

The following at nearly all of the concerns or comments made about the thread:

- only problem with it is that it isn't meant to edify judging by the animosity on display
- wonder if any of the brothers speaking has thought to stop
and imagine whether the same words that they use
would have been Jesus's choice were He the one addressing the issue here.
- Can any of you give me some examples of places
where Jesus was "naming and shaming" Pharisees and religious leaders of His day?
- For the first passage, I do not see any "naming". Nicodemus was a Pharisee that Jesus met personally and knew of.
So was Simon and possibly a few others but I see none of their names or any others.
- Can any of you explain how and why He accepted their invitations to their homes
and their hospitality and their own personal visits to Him?
- Can any of you show me parallels between what you're doing and what He did in His day?
- A lot has been and is being said and I find the thread a bit too tedious to read.
- I see Jesus doing a lot of rebuking, that is,
correcting by pointing out the errors of the religious leaders of His day and showing their gravity.
I don't see much in the way of personal attacks
- I figured a simple discussion of one issue at a time
would help everybody and possibly keep confusion, complication and unnecessary aggression at bay
- You're quite determined to decide whether my name goes on your list of enemies, aren't you?
- I have already made clear that I do not consider the thread edifying.
That is not an opinion that you are required to share.
- I beg you, is the language and tone of Paul in this passage comparable to the language and tone of this thread?
- The point was whether there were personal attacks in Jesus's own example
with the religious leaders of His day as there evidently are on this thread
- Of course, the thread does not need popularity. It already has it in abundance. That was my point
- thank you for engaging me so far. It was not as productive as I'd hoped.
I will see if anything comes of other engagements I have here.
If not, I will wait for another opportunity to examine the truth in this anti-WoF theology
- I've told you that personal attacks are what you have done on this thread to the ministers you've named
- When you attack one's person, you are not attacking their errors, it is them you have issue with not their error.
When you are attacking an error, it is only incidental that a person is involved.
This is why we know nothing of any personal grouse Jesus had with Pharisees and others.
He visited their homes and shared their meals
because his fight was with the spirit that held them bound in their error not with they themselves.
- The acceptable start is always that these people are your family.
If they are in error, THEY need to be corrected. Not destroyed.
The absence of mercy and compassion is strong evidence of the absence of Christ Himself.
- Is @truthislight really correct in calling this examination a distraction?
Are you responding correctly in choosing to ignore it seeing that you yourself are also examining a theology at your own behest?
Shall your objections not be judged by the Scriptures only because they are objections and yours at that?
Are you and the others here above the judgment of the Scriptures? Is that why you can say the things in the quoted post above?
- I request that you desist from incessantly asking me to explain things I write.
Shall I write a comprehensive summary on every statement I make?
You should be able to point out what problems you have with any statement I make
- upon reading our brother Ihedinobi's replies to the thread,
I have decided to respond quickly so a to nip something in the bud before it becomes a huge flame
- I do not necessarily consider any or all of the men named here to be in any kind of error
nor do I necessarily consider all or any of the teachings objected to here to be erroneous
I have offered the principals of this thread an opportunity to examine their objections
and they have rejected it therefore I neither endorse them nor their work by anything I have said above
- i trust the thread champions, they're not that nice
- There's a world of difference between that thread and this.
Something like that thread (i.e. https://www.nairaland.com/1188495/fellow-christians-what-happening-us/5)
is what Ihedinobi has being pushing for, how you can't see that is, well it's you

This is reiterating the message of an earlier post that contrary to an impression perceived,
the thread is not about "opening up to the fraud and lies in what is called 'Christianity' in churches today" per se
but rather, it is about putting Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents, specifically, under a microscope
It is about examining each of their doctrine(s) along with putting it's proponents under close scrutiny
It is not, necessarily about the fraud and lies perpetrated in the body of Christ at large
but as explicitly shown or stated by the title of the thread, it is about those of WoF movement.

Restating again, contrary to continued and inherent perception the thread is not set up
nor used to harass or undermine those with differing doctrines, teachings or views.

The thread as earlier mentioned is about examining the doctrines of WoF
and not interested in the personalities per se.

We are aware that some of us are sentimentally attached to various personalities, MoGs etc WoF inclusive
hence the defense and attempts to prevent or protect them from what is perceived as personal attacks

This is unfair and unacceptable that the frequent regurgitation of these absurd claims of naming to shame
destroying people, putting names on enemies' list, personal vendetta etc
are distracting and deflecting the purpose of the thread from been carried out.

We are advised to hold up under the light of the scriptures all teachings
We are commanded to test all things, examine the teachers, rightly divide the Word of truth
and test the Spirits because not all come from the Lord.
Isn't that what so far on the thread has being done?

Some have given this thread a wide berth, some like Image123 etc had rained on the thread's parade
Why people even bother commenting on threads when they haven't got meaningful contributions beats me.
It's so annoying...

We know that WoF movement seemingly has somewhat, if not more some good teachings.

We know that people have been opportune to have libraries or comprehensive list of almost all the WoF messages ever preached
whether via audio, books, CD/DVDs, TV Channels, seminars, newsletters, magazines etc

We know too, that such fortunate people strenuously vouch that most of these message they've listened to are sound.
in other words, they find the teachings 100% faultless,
that none of the teachings whatsoever are iffy, unsettling, doubtful, un-biblical, dodgy, controversial, awkward etc

We are aware that in defense, the responses are in the form of, some of teachings are not properly understood by others
but are taken to the extremes or out of context and that these extremes "were and are" sadly attributed to the WoF movement.

The thread is not against WoF teachings or discouraging Christians from hearing or listening to them
WoF movement are free to say, to teach etc

The thread is not advising throwing out the baby and soap with the dirty bath water
rather, it is pointing out where the bones are
and advising should in case you're eating the fish
know when to spit out the bones and/or how to spit out the bones.

After all like Voltaire, this thread might say:

“I do not agree with what you have to say,
but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.”

This is not a witch hunt or character assassination.

It is not critising the personalities per se
but rather the principalities behind the personalities' doctrine
and the reason and motives behind the doctrine.

There is already so much misleading and inaccurate doctrines out there
If anyone is going to put teachings out there at least make sure it is accurate
and know what such person is talking about

It is nice to see that there are many well informed Christians out there,
unfortunately some of us still do need help to perform the Bereans and check facts and truths

This is the purpose and why the thread has this responsibility to the audience
who are trying to learn the bible healthier without any sorrow added

Sorry, now that the air being cleared and gotten cleared off, let's get back to business

We are discussing that "The Distortion of the Cross" is not a doctrine per se or in itself
but rather "The Distortion of the Cross" actually is the occasional rubbishing of the cross
It is criticizing the cross mildly or severely and rejecting it as worthless.

We've wasted enough time and space,
so we won't dwell too long on this but cut straight to the chase.

It is going to be a lot easier with exhibits.

https://s30.postimg.org/raf2n2k6l/trip_Cross.jpg

So hereby we tender the exhibits of this discussion (i.e. "The Distortion of the Cross'')
Let's now see what both exhibits have to say about the cross

Here are Kenneth Hagin & Kenyon exhibits own words speak for themselves:

Kenneth Hagin wrote
"The trouble with us is that we've preached a 'cross' religion,
and we need to preach a 'throne' religion.
By that I mean that people have thought they were supposed to remain at the cross.
Some have received the baptism in the Holy Spirit,
have backed up to the cross,
and have stayed there ever since...
The cross is actually a place of defeat,
whereas the Resurrection is a place of triumph.
When you preach the cross, you're preaching death,
and you leave people in death."
(Ken Hagin, "The Believer's Authority," page 16. Second Edition 1986)

E.W. Kenyon wrote
“We have sung `Nearer the cross'
and we have prayed that we might be
`Nearer the cross' but the cross has no salvation in it.
It is a place of failure and defeat”
(Advanced Bible Course, p.279)

https://s13.postimg.org/7klrpcfdz/Kenyon2_c.jpg

Kenneth Hagin doesn't as such publicly admit being influenced by Kenyon or Christian Science
but from the evidences of the exhibits, it is glaring the similarities and obvious
where from Hagin and the WoF movement got this "The Distortion of the Cross" of an idea from.

This "The Distortion of the Cross" doctrine was widely taught by all in the WoF movement until recently
where the wiser ones in the movement have stopped actively teaching it,
however some in the Hagin camp and the Copelands still fervently believe and teach this doctrine

The cross is actually a place of defeat?!
The cross is a place of failure?!!
There is no salvation in the cross?!!!
What a bunch of sophisticated arrogant pack of lies.

Of course, the cross seemingly initially looked like is a place of suffering
but on hindsight, it actually was a case of "weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning" (i.e. Psalms 30:5)

The cross is central and important to every Christians lives
even more so, that Jesus even categorically commands that whoever wants to be His follower take up his cross and follow Him
and warns that whoever does not take up his cross and follow Him is not worthy of Him
(i.e. Mathew 16:24, Matthew 10:38 and Luke 9:23)

How is it possible for anyone to say preaching the cross, is preaching death and leaving people in death
or that the cross has no salvation in it, it is a place of failure and defeat?

https://s30.postimg.org/qttv0mwfl/Cross_Road.jpg

The "resurrection" of Jesus served to prove the Deity of Jesus
it proves the power Jesus has as God to raise himself from the dead
(i.e. unlike the power which the two thieves on cross did not have, even if it were to say, they were to die for man's sin too)
just like He previously raised Lazarus
and it has nothing whatsoever to do with our redemption.
We obtained our redemption, EVERYTHING, ALL therein on the cross and no where else.
Ephesian 1:7, Colossians 1:14, 1 Peter 2:24 among other several verses attests to this fact and truth.

In him we have redemption through his blood,
the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace
- Ephesian 1:7 NIV

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
- Colossians 1:14KJ Bible

He personally carried our sins in his body on the cross
so that we can be dead to sin and live for what is right.
By his wounds you are healed
- 1 Peter 2:24 NLT

https://s30.postimg.org/g89zomq3x/Cross_2_Copy.jpg https://s14.postimg.org/oljetwhcd/cross_Atone.jpg https://s30.postimg.org/sbfbc7165/1cross_3_nails_Copy.jpg

The cross represents and expresses the great love God has for man (i.e. John 3:16)
and the Bible is extremely clear that it was on the cross where the penalty of our sins was paid,
it is on this same cross where the blood of Jesus was spilled and accepted as a ransom for us
It was on the cross that Jesus declared everything was done when saying: "It is finish" (i.e. John 19:30)

Let's hear what Paul has to say about "The Distortion of the Cross":

But may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus,
the Messiah, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world!
- Galatians 6:14 ISV

for I decided not to know any thing among you,
except Jesus Christ, and him crucified;
- 1 Corinthians 2:2 Young's Literal Translation

For the message about the cross is nonsense
to those who are being destroyed,
but it is God's power to us who are being saved.
- 1 Corinthians 1:18 ISV

For, as I have often told you before
and now tell you again even with tears,
many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.
- Philippians 3:18 NIV

https://s2.postimg.org/djlrmh3o9/Cross_Horatious_Bonar_c.jpg

Satan is enjoying this,
as satan extremely loves diverting attention away from the cross
Did it with the Muslims (i.e. they claim Jesus didn’t die on the cross but perhaps it was Judas)
with the Mormons (i.e. they claim Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane)
and Christian Science... (i.e. they waffle a lot and then eventually end up with Jesus's death is an illusion)

We will conclude here but be assured that
the "The Distortion of the Cross" really is a púššycát when compared with JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually doctrine)
"The Distortion of the Cross" is mellow and tamed here whereas JDS is OTT and wild
JDS à-la WoF doctrine is graphical, gory, dark, shady and sinister
WoF's version of event without a shadow of doubt is founded on something made up, dreamed up or learned incorrectly
"JDS - Jesus Died Spiritually" definitely is "The Distortion of the Cross" on steroids

I REST MY CASE ON F5, FOR NOW.

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F5: The Distortion of the Cross[/size]

shdemidemi: Flee from any man who thinks godliness is a means to financial gain.
They are evil beasts, slow bellies who adulterate sound doctrine for filthy lucre sake.

A gospel of Christ which teaches love , faith and most importantly HOPE Of glory has been committed to us,
we must guard what has been entrusted to our care from those who hide under Christianity to gain what they truly love and worship(mammon).

^^^
- Jesus was so not rich, He had to be buried in a borrowed rich's man tomb
- Jesus' family or the apostles (i.e. the disciples) were so not rich, that it was this rich man Joseph of Arimathea
who was a member of the Sanhedrin that put up his tomb for Jesus' burial
(i.e. donated his tomb for Jesus' burial)
- Jesus was so not rich, yet He lacked nothing

¹⁰Those who love money will never have enough.
How meaningless to think that wealth brings true happiness!
¹¹The more you have,
the more people come to help you spend it.
So what good is wealth
--except perhaps to watch it slip through your fingers!
- Ecclesiastes 5:10-11 NLT

¹⁷Better to have little, with fear for the LORD,
than to have great treasure and inner turmoil.
¹⁸A bowl of vegetables with someone you love
is better than steak with someone you hate.
- Proverbs 15:17-18 NLT

And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began to say,
"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God".
- Luke 6:20 New American Standard Bible

²⁴"But how terrible it will be for you who are rich,
because you have had your comfort!
²⁵How terrible it will be for you who are full now,
because you will be hungry!
How terrible it will be for you who are laughing now,
because you will mourn and cry!
Luke 6:24-25 ISV

⁴Don't wear yourself out trying to get rich.
Be wise enough to know when to quit.
⁵In the blink of an eye wealth disappears,
for it will sprout wings and fly away like an eagle.
- Proverbs 23:4-5 NLT

Image123: Is there a Bible verse that says a Christian cannot be cursed?

nora544: there is a no such Bible verse,
this only comes from this money loveing jetflying businesspastors in nigeria to put fear on their followers.
they make all that people have always fear but a christian can live a life without fear.

Image123: Gosh, Goshen now flys a jet? He's been insisting that a christian cannot be cursed.
i hope he or someone produce that bible verse that says so.

I've waited long enough (i.e. holding back)
since, no one yet or so far, have managed to pull out these three verses for Image123, I'll do so now

But God said to Balaam,
"Don't go with them! Don't curse these people, because they are blessed."
- Numbers 22:12 GOD'S WORD Translation

How can I curse those whom God hasn't cursed?
How can I condemn those whom the LORD hasn't condemned?
- Numbers 23:8 GOD'S WORD Translation

Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow,
an undeserved curse will not land on its intended victim
- Proverbs 26:2 NLT

Maybe Image123, can reciprocate too,
and now tell us, if there is a Bible verse that says a Christian cannot "...take advantage of the law of aerodynamics..."

trustman: The bolded does not seem to matter to WoF adherents.
You show them Scripture rightly divided they refuse it.

You show them how even in the lives of their proponents things don't work out exactly like they claim,
they still find reasons to give.

I guess when people have itching ears, anything goes!

RedReact: To be honest, it has damaged us.

The church used to be the last place where corruption would be traced
but not, it's like the church is at the epicenter of financial impropiety.

I never believed my ear when I heard that some people, in my church at home, were involved in inflating the cost of getting land for a project. I was highly ashamed. I heard the senior pastor in my mom's church, although not part of the WoF movement, say that sometimes they get disappointed in giving an unbeliever work to do because they won't have complaints with them unlike the members of the same household of faith now that they will be begging to get things done correctly. An issue that relates to perpetuating fraud was witnessed recently, something that involves a deacon,
and one would wonder why these are happening to us?

The church, that should be complementing each other, is now competing against each other.
If not building, it is membership, and if not membership, it is income.

It's like the church is moving away from what it used to be before and one would always ask WHY?

Our campus fellowships are now turning into something else,
as some of these teachings are what believers are now fed with.

^^^
https://s27.postimg.org/8kurcwi4f/sad.jpg
Too bad. So sad.

mbaemeka: Huh? You really need the sleep. Even for you this is below nonsense. #NoOffence

Goodnight.

*switches in to watch Bill Winston*

Ah! Bill, no wonder, thought as much,
This divulgence ought to be the thread killer!

----oooO----
----(----)----
-----\--(--
------\_)-
-----------Oooo ---
-----------(--- -)---
------------)-- /----
------------(_/

It's now at the point or turned out to be, like someone earlier said:
"The most silliest thread have ever seen. Mtcheeew"

Tufiakwa! Walks out of time wasting, time killer, time destroyer, time stealing thread, never to return.

Alwaystrue: Weldone Ayoku. This resonates with me perfectly. Jesus is the template.
Christianity is being filled and led by the Spirit in Christ.
This is what happens when we know our purpose and assignment on earth.

This is nothing but just a cliché - no offense intended Alwaystrue
OK, educate us, what is "...your purpose and assignment on earth..."

ayoku777: - part of quote above here snipped off here -

For many christians "thy will be done" has become just another fancy expression
to describe throwing our hands in the air and submitting to whatever happens.

We ought to know the will of God that we are asking to be done,
otherwise it is submitting to FATE not to the WILL OF GOD.

In closing let me say this, christianity is not comfort or suffering,
it is being filled and led of the spirit. Comfort is not carnality and suffering is not spirituality.

Christian maturity is beseeching to behold the glory of Christ,
and doing that entails both times to abase and times to abound.

- /nothing below snipped off here -

I beg to differ that "...thy will be done..." is just another fancy expression
to describe throwing up hands in the air and submitting to whatever happens.

Maybe that is how some christians understand, perceive or construe what "thy will be done" is about
(i.e. throwing up hands in the air and submitting to whatever happens)
but certainly wasn't the case with Jesus when He used it

And he went a little further, and fell on his face,
and prayed, saying, O my Father,
if it be possible, let this cup pass from me:
nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
- Matthew 26:39 KJ Bible

He went away again the second time,
and prayed, saying,
O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me,
except I drink it, thy will be done.
- Matthew 26:42 KJ Bible

And he left them, and went away again,
and prayed the third time, saying the same words
- Matthew 26:44 KJ Bible

Saying, Father,
if thou be willing, remove this cup from me:
nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done
- Luke 22:42 KJ Bible

Three times on that night, according to Matthew 26:39, 42 & 44 is how many times Jesus prayed,
and that is a three times "thy will be done" prayer

"...thy will be done..." isn't a "Que Sera, Sera" plea
It is not admitting defeat, conceding defeat, stop trying, calling it a day or giving in
but it actually means: "I am committing my plans/actions to You, forging on, despite, but know, You, know best"

We can make our own plans, but the LORD gives the right answer.
- Proverbs 16:1 NLT

Commit your actions to the LORD, and your plans will succeed.
- Proverbs 16:3 NLT

We can make our plans, but the LORD determines our steps.
- Proverbs 16:9 NLT

You can make many plans, but the LORD's purpose will prevail.
- Proverbs 19:21 NLT

Maybe it is baby Christians, at moment of, seemingly hopelessness, that incorrectly use the phrase the way you've painted it
Also, mind you, it could've slipped me (i.e. I could be wrong)
but I don't think I have seen or read yet any post on this thread propping or supporting
Christians resigning, throwing in the towel/sponge, quitting or surrendering in the face of adversity
or humming "Que Sera, Sera" when in difficult or unpleasant situations

My two penn'orth.