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 Christianity Etc › Re: House On The Rock Lagosbranch Bans The Use Of Mini Skirts & Heels Tochurch by BabaGnoni: 5:28pm On Jul 30, 2014*. Modified: 5:46pm On Jul 30, 2014 |
chyseth: So church should be turned into a club because we need to endure temptation?Some "churches" are worse than clubs - these adjectives do not necessarily apply to this "church" but most "churches" are hypocrites and a den of thieves The church is not the physical building Making a mountain out of a molehill is the joke I bet King David too would have loved to abolish bathing after the Bathsheba incident What happens to your church, (i.e. as in yourself as part of the body of Christ) when mini-skirts walks past or approaches it Or you've abolished every walking by mini-skirts in vicinity of it You don't need an abolish sledgehammer to crack a nut The mini-skirts or high heels probably turned up at the spur of the moment or at a last minute notice Give good teachings and explanations, then if not immediately, with time, conformity will follow 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: House On The Rock Lagosbranch Bans The Use Of Mini Skirts & Heels Tochurch by BabaGnoni: 4:46pm On Jul 30, 2014 |
Barselonia: https://s28.postimg.org/6elzk1xyh/mini.jpg chyseth: Yeahhh That is it, my Pastor.No, the use of mini-skirts and high-heeled shoes should not be abolished in Nigerian churches. The neck is more the reason, each has one, to turn head elsewhere with, in order to look away or not look at all. God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. - James 1:12 NLT Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. - James 1:12 KJ Bible How blessed is the man who endures temptation! When he has passed the test, he will receive the victor's crown of life that God has promised to those who keep on loving him - James 1:12 ISV 1 Like 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Was Judas Saved Or Did He Lose His Salvation? by BabaGnoni: 3:58pm On Jul 30, 2014 |
^^^ Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? - between BabaGnoni and shdemidemi: https://www.nairaland.com/1820451/judas-iscariot-really-villain/1#24840613 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 3:32pm On Jul 30, 2014 |
Image123: With all the stories and concocted lies on display, Image123: So then we will not be children any more. Clever people may try to make us believe things that are not true.https://s30.postimg.org/3qkwuuelp/plugging_Ears.jpg The Old "British Bulldog Spirit" in the genes seems to be in action there It may also have had some help from the DNA. Whoever is wise, let him understand these things; whoever is discerning, let him know them; for the ways of the LORD are right, and the upright walk in them, but transgressors stumble in them - Hosea 14:9 ESV But if you have bitter zeal, and there be contentions in your hearts; glory not, and be not liars against the truth. - James 3:14 Douay-Rheims Bible anger and fury on those who, in selfish pride, refuse to believe the truth and who follow what is wrong. - Romans 2:8 GOD'S WORD® Translation Why Scientists believe they have discovered the gene which explains stubborn and bullheaded behaviour. An estimated one-third of us has the gene mutation which researchers say is nature's way of ensuring there are always some who "shall never surrender". The team at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences in Germany say such historical greats as Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-505786/Why-British-bulldog-spirit-genes.html#ixzz38u7q1efA 3 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 3:32pm On Jul 29, 2014*. Modified: 4:48pm On Jul 29, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F8:TITHING Contd PART III[/size] What happens now, that tithing is no more? It is true that tithing is no more as, tithing and it's law were nailed, dead on the Cross at Calvary by Jesus Christ (refer to Malachi 3:7 & Colossians 2:14 for details on this) but lack of faith, revived it and the desperate love of money since then has kept it alive and going Tithing is no more, means, one is free from obligatory or instituted giving God unlike how He commanded tithing or circumcision for the Israelites, God has given same command to believers As believers, one is somehow commanded differently though, commanded to give. Having said commanded to give, not forced to give though but rather to give freely To give freely as one purposes or thinks in one's own heart and that's without any external or internal forcing, guidance, on how much to give or not to give Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver - 2 Corinthians 9:7 NIV - It is hard to cheerfully give, if forced to do the giving. - Cheerfulness when giving will only be displayed, if one is free from a tithing law, stick and carrot forcing one to give. - Reading that, there is no need to tithe might sound strange, and it also might taste like too tough a meat for the teeth to bite on, talkless chewing. - an awkward situation like this is easily understood, which is why verses like Isaiah 28:10 to learn from, comes in handy. - One can start with giving nothing, then progress to a little freewill giving here and a little freewill giving there - Over a period of short time of, a bit here and a bit there, freewill giving, like a muscle exercised in workouts, becomes natural, spontaneous and easy - This ultimately leads to performing or doing more freewill giving progressing to 100% or more. (i.e. freewill giving, changes from Incapable, becoming Ability, and Ability turns into "Abinibi") Can tithing be used as a benchmark for training for how to start giving freely? - No it cannot be used because we are now operating in a new order of doing things and so tithing or 1/10th should never be in the frame any more - This is because there is no room for tithing or an ideal giving such as a tenth, in this revised way of giving. - One just starts giving as much as one can, as much as one can afford, or as much as one can do without. - The giving doesn't not have to be consistent - It doesn't have to be the same amount, it doesn't have to be at regular intervals - We are not told least amounts or how much to be giving or start giving with - We are told SIMPLY to give, and to give as one determines in one's heart and if it so happens, one determines nothing, then fair enough, no qualms. - It would not be held against one. - All God wants is a cheerful giver and this is what WoF ought to be teaching - We are in a time that tithing does not apply any more, no more, especially in this new order, way of doing things (i.e. Hebrews 9:10) 9This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings —external regulations applying until the time of the new order. - Hebrews 9:9-10 NIV So one does not need to tithe then? Well spotted. Of course, yes, one does not need to tithe. In fact, one is not even allowed to tithe, not any more, period. Just like the priests do not and did not tithe so, one is exempted from tithing. We are back to how it originally was planned, to all be priests. We have cycled back to how it originally was meant to be One is not like before any more. One is called out of the bondage & darkness into God's freedom & wonderful light One, now, is royal, chosen to serve as Priests for The Kingdom And this is closing with 1 Peter 2:9 and the icing on the cake, which is: PRIESTS DON'T TITHE But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God's very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. - 1 Peter 2:9 NLT ADDENDUM: 10Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.” 19But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us" - 1 Samuel 8:10-19 Comparing with the above 1 Samuel 8:10-19 passage, 13 things, worth noting concerning WoF's tithing doctrine: 1) It is very obvious to spot similarities with a Ponzi scheme, where fraudulent investing scam promising high rates of return with little risk to investor is taught and promised - WoF have devised their own form of tithing which is completely at variance to the biblical tithing commanded by God the Bible. 2) The tithing doctrine taught by WoF is not the same as the now defunct and obsolete Israelites tithing practice earlier commanded by God 3) WoF tithing is mimicking a tithing practice which is no longer functional or which as far as God is concerned, is no longer existing or operating. 4) WoF is teaching tithing which God no longer commands. 5) The truth is that, the king in 1 Samuel 8:10-11, is the head of whichever WoF movement teaching a defunct, obsolete and fake tithe doctrine 6) As a matter of fact, 1 Samuel 8:12-14 are the die-hard fans of the "king" and others in the higher echelons of the WoF movement. The WoF disciples for their submissiveness are compensated with titles, positions, zonal posts etc or enjoy perks and favours for their blindfolded admiration and loyalty to the "king and his cohort" or WoF cause 7) If truth really be told, 1 Samuel 8:15 & 17, is the ruse WoF is practising and what is used for extorting from unsuspecting and ill-informed investors believers - It is not a God commanded or directed tithe in the real sense but rather it is a one tenth tax just like demanded by the Israelite king in 1 Samuel 8:15 8.) Unfortunately, 1 Samuel 8:16-19, is a reality, where believers are abused, used or misused by the WoF tithing doctrine but when warned, they refuse to listen. “No!” they say. “ Do not touch our sacred cow. We want the "tithing" over us" 9) WoF's tithing doctrine is a meal ticket and a faux-tithing set in place to fund the lavish lifestyle 10) WoF's tithing doctrine is nothing more than a 10 percent taxation masqueraded as tithing 11) Bonus here for those (e.g. hardcore tithers, die-hard tithers or pro-tithers) who think tithing is a do or die resolve: Forget Matthew 23:23, and check out Luke 18:9-14 to see who was justified between a tithe-giving Pharisee and despised tax collector 12) ANYONE HOLDING on TO the VIEW of that there is a PRINCIPLE BEHIND TITHING, CAN CLEARLY SEE IN Luke 18:14, that one is justified even without tithing, and also evident in the verse, the other is not justified despite tithing. - although tithing is now gone, there apparently, were things according to Luke 18:14, back then, more important than tithing. 13) Lastly, today, no Jew or any member of any synagogue in present day Israel or synagogues in the rest of the world pays tithe in the biblical commanded manner or with money (i.e. tenth of income) - they don't tithe, as they know it would be disobeying the law of God and a sin against God. - There is no more Levitical order of Priests ministering at a Temple in Jerusalem today, and so this makes it illegal to pay any form of biblical tithe to anyone else than the Levites. - It was ONLY the Levites who were ordained by God to receive or accept tithe - So today, any giver of tithe & any receiver of tithe (i.e. receiver, not of the commanded Levitical order) are both committing a grave offense to God - WoF should not be teaching tithe, besides the fact of not even being qualified, in the first place, according to God's command, to receive biblical tithe. - Peter, the Apostles, Paul and Jesus knew that to be eligible to receive tithe, one needs to be of the tribe of Levi this is why none of them taught tithing after the Cross and since the Temple veil was torn and besides, since Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, Peter and Jesus of the tribe of Judah, the rest of the Apostles were not Levites neither of them sought tithing nor encouraged or taught any to give tithe to them or anyone else for that matter. - Peter and Paul, knew it is biblically improper to give and receive tithes so they did not depend on it, rely on it or plan to use biblical tithe for the development and spread of the Gospel On close, freewill giving done out of a willingness coming from the heart will ONLY be practiced by believers, if good and unadulterated teachings, devoid of tithing, are given, in faith to them. (i.e. faith as in the 3rd and last one, in Matt 23:23's more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith) By informing the readers of the truth behind WoF tithing and uncovering how WoF teaches tithing, the humble message of this post is two-fold: Firstly, when an old covenant command, lines in the pocket of such like WoF, it is hard to let go Secondly, the readership is hereby reassured, tithing has no place in believers' life after what happened on the Cross at Calvary [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F8:TITHING [/size] I REST MY CASE ON F8, FOR NOW Started from: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#25034517 6 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 3:30pm On Jul 29, 2014*. Modified: 4:42pm On Jul 29, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F8:TITHING Contd PART II[/size] Where tithe was given? - The tithe were given at storehouses at dotted or designated cities (i.e. Levitical cities) in Israel - Occasionally, it was given at the Temple (i.e. this was the period when the records on tithing procedure went missing) What was tithe given on? - It was given solely and strictly on agro-based or agricultural produce, nothing else, as earlier mentioned Why was tithing based on agricultural produce and not monetary income? - God had a reason for specifying that tithing be done in this form or manner *** Remember to mention the 3 major reasons with their verses (e.g. guard against self made thinking fear of God, for the temple sacrifices, Levites and priests have no inheritances) Who was Malachi 3:8-10 referring to and/or talking about? 8“Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! “But you ask, ‘What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?’ “You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. 9You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. 10Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! - Malachi 3:8-10 NLT - Malachi 3:8-10 is one of those bogeyman verses, WoF uses to scare the living daylights out of anyone not tithing and also to make such quake in the boots with fear feeling that something bad will happen for not tithing - Malachi 3:8-10 was addressed to and talking about the Levites - the "people" in the verse, was referring to the Levites, - The verse has God complaining of being cheated or robbed by the Levites, (i.e. Malachi 3:9) even the whole lot of them. - Mind you Malachi 3:10, in it wasn't even about money, like WoF would lead most to believe - The Israelites gave their agro-based tithes to the Levites - The Levites, as ordained by God, in turn, were expected to give a tithe of the tithe received to the priests. - The priests were to receive the best tenth of the Levites tithe - Unfortunately this was not the case, the Levites greedily were not doing this, hence God voiced out and complained about the Levites in Malachi 3:8-10 (Note: all priests were Levites, but not all Levites were priests) "He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness" - Malachi 3:3 - Notice "...sons of Levi..." particularly in Malachi 3:3 above, to see that it was the Levites the whole of Malachi Chapter 3 was talking about - So Malachi 3:8-10 is about the Levites, rebuking the Levites for withholding their tithes so thereby not providing for the priests who had no inheritance in the land - WoF have twisted Malachi 3:8-10, changed the addressee in the verse, turned the verse around, diverting and pointing it at unsuspecting & uninformed individuals - WoF conveniently refuse to properly and correctly teach the church the biblical truth of Malachi 3:10 and whom exactly Malachi 3:9 was addressing or talking about (i.e. it was the Levites and not the Israelites) - WoF teaches a twisted Malachi 3:8-10 by changing the addressees in verse(s) to suit dark and greedy ulterior motives What are the types of tithes? - There are 5 types of tithes instituted by God for the Israelites. - The five instituted types of tithes are: • Levitical tithe And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation - Numbers 18:21 NIV • Festival tithe (i.e. Deuteronomy 14:22-27) • Poor tithe (i.e. Deuteronomy 14:28-29) • Priest's tithe (i.e. Numbers 18: 25-32) • Redeem or Late tithe (i.e. Leviticus 27:19, 31) Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it - Leviticus 27:19 NIV What was tithing given on in Matthew 23:23? - Tithe was given on common household seasonings/spices for food - They given on mint, anise and cummins, which are secondary/minor produce of the land Why did Jesus have to mention food seasonings in the latter part of this Matthew 23:23 then? "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." - Matthew 23:23 - Jesus was hinting on the display and show of legalism (i.e. the ludicrous of tithing even on seasonings at the expense of noble gestures) - The Pharisees were trying to follow the Biblical principle of tithing and tithing to the letter, to tithe of all their increase, (i.e. note it is nothing about money) - So the Pharisees made people tithe to the letter on crops grown for food including even the likes of cumin etc (i.e. tithing of herbs too, probably looking after their bellies) - Jesus' view on the legalism on display here and his response to it, is in the latter part of the verse - In the passage, Jesus was comparing the Pharisees' tithing to the letter of the Law with their lack of ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions, with their lack of human compassion and lastly with their lack of belief, as in their faith does not need to depend on logical proof, physical or material evidence) Was Jesus condoning and congratulating the Pharisees in Matthew 23:23? - No Jesus was not condoning or congratulating them, He actually was condemning them and expressing a very strong disapproval of the tithing set up - Woe implies wishing someone a stroke of bad luck, affliction, setbacks, failure, misadventure, disaster etc. - Woe means wishing someone problems, difficulties, trouble etc - Hypocrites implies deceivers, imposters, pretenders etc - Hypocrite means a person who pretends to have principles, virtues etc (e.g. moral or religious beliefs) that such person does not actually possess Why does WoF ask for tithe? - WoF asks for tithes because it ignores the power of the Cross, WoF does not believe in the power of the Cross - WoF believes that "the cross has no salvation in it. It is a place of failure and defeat" and so still living in the past, living before the Cross. - The true tithing (i.e. biblical tithing) was part of the ordinances Jesus did away with for us on the Cross. - The tithing WoF asks for or demands is un-biblical, a sham and a fraud Why do WoF receive tithes of money? - WoF receives tithes of money because WoF ignores and/or rejects the definition of the "biblical tithe" - What WoF receives is un-biblical, a sham, and a fraud because the biblical tithe was always agro-based and not is income or money based as WoF suggests it to be. - Money only comes into the picture when one is far from the Temple or the Levitical cities for receiving the tithes In the OT, it was always food and came from farmers and herders. If they could not carry the food, they were told to sell it travel to the temple, and then use the money to buy a food tithe. As for spices, I think that was a comment on legalism. Spice is not really food per se, but the Pharisees were so legalistic they even tithed 10% of their spices too - but still had other spiritual problems apart from the law. How does WoF teach tithing?: - WoF teaches that one pays tithe to the WoF preacher or WoF movement - WoF categorically teaches that one does not give tithe (Note, WoF means, one PAYS as in only with money and DOES NOT GIVES as with does not offer anything else apart from money) Does WoF teach the biblical tithing? (e.g. in areas or the aspects of eating tithe or giving it to anybody) - WoF does not teach the biblical tithing, and especially not the Deuteronomy 14:23 aspect or the possibilities of eating tithe (i.e. eat tithe with one's household) - WoF does not teach the aspect of giving/sharing the tithe with someone else (i.e. every 3rd year with the Levites, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow) - Mind you tithing is abrogated, however WoF though, still practices and teaches tithing, - WoF is silent on Deuteronomy 12:6-7 & 14:22-29's guidelines for tithe etiquette and rules of conduct, 6And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: 7And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee - Deuteronomy 12:6-7 KJ Bible 22“You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23Bring this tithe to the designated place of worship —the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored —and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. Doing this will teach you always to fear the Lord your God. 24“Now when the Lord your God blesses you with a good harvest, the place of worship he chooses for his name to be honored might be too far for you to bring the tithe. 25If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds, put the money in a pouch, and go to the place the Lord your God has chosen. 26When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want —cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household. 27And do not neglect the Levites in your town, for they will receive no allotment of land among you. 28“At the end of every third year, bring the entire tithe of that year’s harvest and store it in the nearest town. 29Give it to the Levites, who will receive no allotment of land among you, as well as to the foreigners living among you, the orphans, and the widows in your towns, so they can eat and be satisfied. Then the Lord your God will bless you in all your work. - Deuteronomy 14:22-29 NLT What about Matthew 5:17?, WoF uses this verse to claim that tithing was not abrogated "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:17 KJV "Do not for a moment suppose that I have come to abrogate the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abrogate them but to give them their completion. - Matthew 5:17 Weymouth New Testament - In Matthew 5:17, Jesus was not talking about the tithing law or referring to the tithing law/ordinance - If He were, He will be contradicting Himself, because He never tithed and so unable to fulfil that law, even if He tried. - Also if Jesus was talking of laws (i.e. tithing included) then that implies that all the 613 laws in the OT, are still in force & must be today, all followed too. - Matthew 5:17 is irrelevant to tithing. Refer to Galatians 3:10 to see the absurdity of this stance - WoF and anyone that quotes that Matthew 5:17, to justify tithing, is misrepresenting the truth, is ill-informed, ignorant or doing so to pull a scam. - Focus has shifted from laws and/or the tablets of stone to the Cross and Christ - We are liberated from the bondage of tithing to the freedom of freewill giving - We are moved on from coerced stipulated and demanded giving to the ability to act and give at one's own discretion (i.e. John 1:17) 23Yet a time is coming and has now comet when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit,v and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” - John 4:23–24 NIV - Matthew 5:17 is actually saying, He is not come to stop the Law and prophecies pointing at Him and maintaining that none of the old ways of doing things will not pass from the Law before everything said about Him has come to pass or true - Finally on Matthew 5:17, watch 5:18 closely and note the following words "...not ...disappear ... until everything is accomplished" in it For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Matthew 5:18 - Tithing disappeared that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, when Jesus accomplished everything on the Cross at Calvary (i.e. Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45) - All the prophecies about Jesus came true at the Cross, and thereby struck tithing off the Law. - WoF do not believe in the power of the Cross anyway, so no surprises there, that WoF holds on to tithing and teaches it. Should one follow tithing according to WoF teaching? - One in order to discover the suppressed truth about this, will need to study the word and seek God's counsel so that there are no more hidden lies. - The biblical tithing set-up was instituted to provide for the support and nourishment of the Levites; support & nourishment in the sense of food, drink, warmth etc for the body - The biblical tithing was not introduced for the Levites to have personal/material/financial gain - If the above, is how and why the biblical tithing was set up and introduced, then imagine what tithing according to WoF is What happened to the Temple, the storehouse(s), the Levites? - The Temple was destroyed - Obviously if the Temple's gone, there wont be any storehouse(s) - The Levites became redundant, same fate as the storehouse because the Temple was no more - More importantly to note is that what Jesus and His blood did on the Cross replaced what the Levites where doing yearly at the Temple. What happened to the Temple priests? - Same that happened to the Temple, the storehouse(s), the Levites. - There are no more priests for a no more physical temple - More importantly to note, is that we are the priests now, all believers are back as priests and just as how God originally intended - Recall God changed from making the Israelite a kingdom of priests (i.e. Exodus 19:5-6) to making only the Levites as workers and priests instead, this was after the incident where the Israelites had that crazy wild night partying and committed idolatry with the Golden Calf. - Note that priests in the biblical tithing God introduced were exempted from tithing - Believers are the building, not WoF nor physical building)(s) that has come to be known as church(es) (i.e. for more detail refer to: Revelation 3:12, Ephesians 2:20-22; Ephesians 4:12-16) 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. - 1 Peter 2:5,9 NIV 6 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 3:29pm On Jul 29, 2014*. Modified: 4:26pm On Jul 29, 2014 |
Started from: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#25034517 [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F8:TITHING PART I[/size] What of tithing in the bible, what is it? What according to scripture, is biblical tithing? - Biblical tithing, as commanded to the Israelites by God and how specified in the bible is this: • one tenth of the annual produce from the land • It is of the one tenth of the annual produce of seed of the land or the fruit of the tree and the herd and the flock. 30“One tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain from the fields or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord and must be set apart to him as holy.…. 32Count off every tenth animal from your herds and flocks and set them apart for the Lord as holy - Leviticus 27:30, 32 NLT • Biblical tithing is never a tenth part of one's annual financial/monetary income - Biblical tithing commanded by God, only involves money when the tither is far from the storehouses in the Levitical cities Who tithed? - All the Israelites tithed, priests however are exemptions (Note all priests are Levites, but not all Levites are priests) - If one did not have these one did not tithe of them. - Did Israelites carpenters tithe? No, carpenters would not tithe - What of a fisherman, would he tithe? No, fishermen don't herd nor have flock, so wouldn't tithe - Did all the Israelites tithe? No, not every or all Israelites tithed (e.g. the priests by exemptions and Jesus did not tithe; Jesus because of the nature of His occupation as a carpenter) - Abram or Jacob (i.e. Israel) too did not perform a biblical tithe, as the tithing they carried out, was not the biblical tithe commanded by God nor given to a Levi. Is tithed given or paid? - There is a difference between given and paid (i.e. given as with transferring the possession of something and paid as with paid in money) - One is the biblical way of tithing, the other is the WoF way of tithing. - Tithe is given and not paid (i.e. biblical tithing is given and not paid with or paid in money) - Tithe was not about money, so the issue of paying does not come into the picture (i.e. paying in or with money goes against the law/ordinance/specification given by God) - *** Remember to provide more examples on this (e.g. when far away from the Levitical cities etc etc) - God's commanded biblical tithing instructs to give tithing to the Levites (i.e. only members of the tribe of Levi are to receive the biblical tithes) What is law? - Law is an ordinance - Ordinance is an authoritative order, a command, a directive etc. - Law and ordinance means the same thing. They are interchangeable - Examples are ordinances are: Where God commanded Abram or the Israelites to circumcise (i.e. Genesis 17:12, Leviticus 12:3) or where God commanded the Israelites to tithe (i.e. Leviticus 27:30) *** Mention scriptures commanding this Does Malachi 3 apply to believers? - No, Malachi 3 doesn't apply to believers. - Malachi 3 has to do with the Israelites, particularly the Levites - Also whatever is in Malachi 3 is now irrelevant, as the tithing thereof is an ordinance rendered null and void by what Jesus did at the Cross on Calvary - Tithing along with circumcision, are stale and past their sell-by and use-by dates - Tithing along with circumcision, no more have any spiritual potencies or connotations attached to them. - Tithing along with circumcision, are now just a carnal and self-benefiting exercise lacking any sort of spiritual pay off whatsoever. - Why? OK, let's start with reading self-explanatory Malachi 3:7 and then compare with self-explanatory Colossians 2:14, to know why “Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ORDINANCES, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?” - Malachi 3:7 KJV “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” - Colossians 2:14 KJV Whom was tithed to? - The Levites and priests (i.e. tithe was primarily given to the Levites and the priests) - Note verse 28 below: 25The Lord said to Moses, 26“Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering. 27Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28In this way you also will present an offering to the Lord from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. 29You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’ 30“Say to the Levites: ‘When you present the best part, it will be reckoned to you as the product of the threshing floor or the winepress. 31You and your households may eat the rest of it anywhere, for it is your wages for your work at the tent of meeting. 32By presenting the best part of it you will not be guilty in this matter; then you will not defile the holy offerings of the Israelites, and you will not die.’?” - Numbers 18:25-32 NIV Who was tithe for? - The tithes were for God, Who however gave the tithes up or passed them on to the Levites and the priests - This to support the Levitical priesthood, as the Levites had no inheritance in the land like the rest of the Israelites had Who were the Priests and Levites? - All priests were Levites but not all Levites were priests - The priests originally were Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar (Refer to Exodus 28:1 and Numbers 3:2-4 for details) - The Levites are the descendants of Levi, who had 3 sons, namely Gershon, Kohath and Merari https://s17.postimg.org/ubvmg84nz/Temple_Nlevites.jpg - For the service and work of God, the Levites were organized into 3 levels of service based on the Levi family tree (Refer to Numbers 3:6-10) - The first level of service formed the priesthood, was composed of Aaron and his offspring (Refer to Numbers 3:10 for details) - Aaron and his sons were descendants of Levi's son, Kohath (i.e. Aaron's his first sons, Nadab and Abihu were consumed by fire, the other two were Eleazar and Ithamar) - The second level is formed for those to be in charge of the most sacred parts of the Tabernacle They are the remaining descendants of Kohath who were not descendants of Aaron (Refer to: Numbers 3:27-32, 4:4-15, 7:9 for details) - The third level is formed for the lesser duties of service it comprised of all of the descendants of Gershon and Merari (Refer to: Numbers 3:18,20-26,33-37 for details) Why was tithe given? - It was given because God laid claim to all firstborns after the Passover that killed the firstborns in Egypt but spared the Israelites - God declared that the Levites should have all the tenth of the land as an inheritance the priests however had nothing (i.e. no inheritance or property ownership like the rest of the Israelites had) 20 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel 21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. 22 From now on the Israelites must not go near the tent of meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. 23 It is the Levites who are to do the work at the tent of meeting and bear the responsibility for any offenses they commit against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24 Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.” - Numbers 18:20-24 KJV - As seen above, Aaron was categorically informed he would have no inheritance among the Israelites, as God was his share and inheritance When was tithe given? - The Levitical tithe, the Festival tithe and the Priest's tithes were all given at the end of the year (i.e. Deu 14:22) (i.e. it is an annual exercise on agricultural produce) - The Poor tithe was given every third and sixth year of a 7-year tithing cycle You shall truly tithe all the increase of your seed, that the field brings forth year by year. - Deuteronomy 14:22 Where was tithe given and where was it stored? - Since it is an annual exercise, it was given at the temple at Jerusalem but mostly at storehouses in designated Levitical cities - the Levites and priests kept or stored some tithes in the Temple however tithes mostly are stored in Levitical cities' storehouses for use as needed or for future use - Storehouses in the Temple are rare, the exception is in 2 Chronicles 31:11 when King Hezekiah gave orders to prepare storerooms in the temple to hold the tithe - Storerooms are meant to keep tithes for the priests, whilst storehouses is for the Levites. Also, we have drawn lots to decide who should bring the best of our coarse flour, contributions, fruit from every tree, new wine, and olive oil to the priests, to the storerooms. We will bring for the Levites one-tenth of the produce from our fields, because the Levites are the ones who collect one-tenth of the produce from all our farm communities. - Nehemiah 10:37 GOD'S WORD® Translation 11 Hezekiah gave orders to prepare storerooms in the temple of the Lord, and this was done. 12 Then they faithfully brought in the contributions, tithes and dedicated gifts. Konaniah, a Levite, was the overseer in charge of these things, and his brother Shimei was next in rank. - 2 Chronicles 31:11-12 NIV What is "storehouse tithing" and Malachi 3:10 about? - "Storehouse tithing" is a 18th century to the present teaching invention to fleece believers - "Storehouse tithing" is a tradition of man concocted in 1895, to revive the done away with abrogated age-long biblical tithing - It is based on errors and lies for obtaining money by deception (i.e. obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception) - The next three Mark 7:9 translations articulates very well the whole essence of "storehouse tithing" And he continued, "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! - Mark 7:9 NIV Then he said, "You skillfully sidestep God's law in order to hold on to your own tradition. - Mark 7:9 NLT And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! Mark 7:9 English Standard Version - Deuteronomy 14:28 and Malachi 3:10 are about warehouses, it is similar to what Joseph built in Egypt & used for storing the tithes received - There is no way, the Temple in Jerusalem could house all the tithes received by the Levites so the tithes were usually received by them and kept in storehouses at dotted or designated cities (i.e. Levitical cities) in Israel Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. - Malachi 3:10 KJ Bible At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, - Deuteronomy 14:28 NIV *** Now explain here what Malachi 3:10 is about (i.e. that it is about the Levites, over what is due the Priests) How was tithe given? - The tithes were primarily given to the Levites (i.e. it is the Levites who received the tithes from the Israelites) Where tithe went, What tithe was for or How tithe was used? - Tithes went to the storehouses dotted all over Israel's Levitical cities - The tithes for the priests went to Temple's storeroom - On one occasion the tithes went directly to the Temple - Tithes were given to the Levites to be used for their feeding. - Tithes was for eating by the tither and also for the tither every 3rd year, to eat and share with the Levites, the stranger(s), and the fatherless, and the widow(s) "Every third year you must offer a special tithe of your crops. In this year of the special tithe you must give your tithes to the Levites, foreigners, orphans, and widows, so that they will have enough to eat in your towns". - Deuteronomy 26:12 NLT 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 2:17pm On Jul 28, 2014 |
Image123: i'm loving this, though it's accidental sha, whatever that means."accidental" as in unintentionally publishing the post. The unfinished post got published after a fat finger hit the submit key at the wrong time - similar to a mopol accidentally discharging a weapon 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 1:34pm On Jul 28, 2014*. Modified: 4:13pm On Jul 29, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F8:TITHING [/size] https://s30.postimg.org/q0degrzj1/Tithe_Hard2_Go_c.jpg When an old Covenant command, lines our pockets, it's hard to let it go INTRODUCTION Tithing and it's biblical background: - Abram is the first, recorded to have tithed in the bible. - Abram tithed on spoils of war (i.e. Genesis 14:18-20) - Jacob was second, he promised a one-off tithe if he returns to his father's house in peace (i.e. Genesis 28:20-22) - Both Abram and Jacob did not tithe any more or after these first and second tithe incidents in the bible. - God instituted tithing for the Israelites (i.e. God commanded it and for the Israelites it became a law or ordinance) - Abram and Jacob's tithes were both not commanded by God and also were done before the law or ordinance. - Abram and Jacob's tithes were both voluntary tithes unlike the Israelites' tithe commanded by God which was obligatory - God did not demand tithes from Abram and Jacob, He however did demand tithes from the Israelites Does God change? - No, God does not change but He does change things from time to time. - God, for example, changed who were originally going to be the priests in Israel - God's original plan was that the firstborn son of each household of the Israelites will inherit the priest's office (Refer to Exodus 13:2, Exodus 19:5-6 for details) - That original plan changed and got switched to a hereditary priesthood via Aaron with his offspring (Refer to Exodus 28:1 for details) and further replaced the original plan with the Levites (Refer to Numbers 3:12, 45 for details) (note all priests were Levites but not all Levites were priests) - The Levites got the replacement honour based on not partaking in the incident where the Israelites had that crazy wild night partying and committed idolatry with the Golden Calf and also for how they ruthlessly dealt with the partied Israelites at Moses' command (i.e. Exodus 32:25-29) - The Levites apart from been on the Lord's side, probably sided with Moses' because Moses himself too, was a Levi just like they were (refer to Exodus 2:1-2,10 for details). "Today you have ordained yourselves for the service of The Lord, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, that he may bestow a blessing upon you this day." - Exodus 32:29 - That Exodus 32:29 verse above is where Moses was commissioning the Levites into the service of the Lord. What is tithing (i.e. or a tithe) - Fundamentally, tithing is 1/10th or a tenth of anything or something - It could be monetary, it is a tenth of anything. - Tithing and biblical tithing are not synonymous (i.e. they are not necessarily the same) - Biblical tithing is specific about and/or over what the 1/10th should on or a tenth should be over. It is hoped that after all the submissions on F8: TITHING, we all (i.e. posters and readers) would have learned a thing or two, would have become wiser and after: - able to ask: What of tithing in the bible, what is it? What according to scripture, is biblical tithing? - able to see: Who tithed - able to ask: Is tithed given or paid? - able to ask: What is law? - able to ask: Does Malachi 3 apply to believers? - able to ask: Whom was tithed to? - able to ask: Who was tithe for? - able to ask: Who were the Priests and Levites? - able to ask: Why was tithe given? - able to ask: When was tithe given? - able to ask: Where was tithe given and where was it stored? - able to ask: What is "storehouse tithing" and Malachi 3:10 about? - able to ask: How was tithe given? - able to ask: Where tithe went, What tithe was for or How tithe was used? - able to ask: Where tithe was given? - able to ask: What was tithe given on? - able to ask: Why was tithing based on agricultural produce and not monetary income? - able to ask: Who was Malachi 3:8-10 referring to and/or talking about? - able to ask: What are the types of tithes? - able to ask: What was tithing given on in Matthew 23:23? - able to ask: Why did Jesus have to mention food seasonings in the latter part of this Matthew 23:23 then? - able to ask: Was Jesus condoning and congratulating the Pharisees in Matthew 23:23? - able to ask: Why does WoF ask for tithe? - able to ask: Why do WoF receive tithes of money? - able to ask: How does WoF teach tithing? - able to ask: Does WoF teach the biblical tithing? (e.g. the aspects of eating tithe or giving it to anybody) - able to ask: What about Matthew 5:17, WoF uses this verse to claim that tithing was not abrogated? - able to ask: Should one follow tithing according to WoF's teaching? - able to ask: What happened to the Temple, the storehouse(s), the Levites? - able to ask: What happened to the Temple priests? - able to ask: What happens now, that tithing is no more? - and finally able to ask: Can tithing be used as a benchmark for training for how to start giving freely? Continued at: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#25062857 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christians: The Big Question Even Your Pastor Can't Answer by BabaGnoni: 8:18pm On Jul 25, 2014*. Modified: 8:52pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
chuxyz: i would really love to get quotes from the scripture.God is no respecter of persons. He talks with everyone What happened on Calvary is a long-lasting solution, chuxyz Sin needs to run it's course and use up all it's grisly, the gruesome, it's violence, bloodthirstiness, it's bloodiness, brutality, it's savagery, the frightful, the horrid, the horrifying, fearfulness, the hideous, the horrible, the dreadful, the terrible, the horrific, disgusting, repulsive, repugnant, revolting, sickening, distressing, shocking, appalling, abominable, loathsome, abhorrent, monstrous, the unspeakable, all that is gross, sickness, hatred, hatefulness, evil, wickedness etc etc I think you're getting the drift, so all these need to be used up, so there 'll be nothing more left in sin - that's how sin wouldn't be able to rear itself again chuxyz (i.e. nail it at the root, the crux of the whole matter as it were) - and remember what God did at Golgotha. - Also remember God guaranteed there will be no more sin (i.e. Revelation 21:4) chuxyz, please, quote me verbatim, where exactly, from all I've said, it means to you, surely there is every probability that man will rebel again |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by BabaGnoni: 6:19pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Strawman's argument as usual.On the other foot, and that foot isn't mine All know you just can't take lying down bro  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christians: The Big Question Even Your Pastor Can't Answer by BabaGnoni: 5:58pm On Jul 25, 2014*. Modified: 7:44pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
chuxyz: First of all, i will say you are very funny. Hahahahahah! You kept me laughing...My dear padi chuxyz, LOL, I dey laugh, at all these questions - that's my Obasanjo laugh by the way ooo As earlier said , I sure hope you can handle the truth Q/ So because God said death will no longer be, means no more temptation will come up? Is it death that tempted man or made satan to rebel? A/ Yes, it means no more temptation will come up No, it wasn't death that tempted man or made satan to rebel Q/ Was death existing before satan rebelled? A/ I am not 100% sure whether death was existing before satan rebelled It could have and could have not Even if death did exist, it wouldn't have any bearing on satan Anyway, I am 100% sure death existed before Adam rebelled Q/ If God dealt with sin totally, then where did sin erupt from? A/ Sin was only dealt with at Calvary, as said we are waiting for sin run its full course, remember, so what is all this about that God dealt with sin totally now? Sin had always erupted (i.e. came) from the transgression of the law (i.e. note that every word that proceeds from the mouth of a King is law; God is Sovereign) Q/ What is that thing that manipulated satan's mind? A/ The thing that manipulated satan's mind, just like it did with Adam, was self (i.e. as you've unknowingly but rightly brushed against, that thing is satan's mind) - Remember Adam wasn't deceived, - Adam like satan too, just blatantly and out-rightly went against the law (i.e. God's word) by himself - Satan and Adam alike made up their minds to commit sin (i.e. break the law) Q/ I tell you death and sin were not in existence before satan rebelled against God. A/ Sorry beg to differ with you on that one, they both (i.e. death and sin) were in existence , they were by virtue of a word (i.e. law) In Satan's case, sin was dormant until it was committed (note that satan is a spirit and not within the parameters of death as it relates to man) whereas in Adam & Eve's case, both sin and death were dormant. - Death is activated by sin. Sin is activated or committed when a word or law is broken. - Sin is the sting of death, sin is what death kills with Q/Even if God destroys Sin totally, wont it erupt from nowhere as before? A/ No, it wont erupt from nowhere as before because nothing will be illegal to do (i.e. people wont be doing banned or illegal stuff) Remember, earlier, that sin has been clinically and thoroughly dealt with by God at Calvary, however it is allowed to run it's full course as it needs to empty out the whole contents inside it's Pandora box. - by time it's finished, all the life in sin would have been sucked out, exhausted, it won't have legs to stand on anymore, talkless want to rear it's ugly head ever again. Maybe this short analogy might explain more: a crime is not committed if there is no law to break better still, an act is not criminal, if there is no law against committing the act PS: Sorry for leaving out the relevant or relating scriptures that backs up the responses |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 5:05pm On Jul 25, 2014*. Modified: 7:09pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by BabaGnoni: 4:27pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Are you saying certainly that all honour the LORD with their substance and that no one on this forum is per se against tithing?Bro, what are you driving at, like as if you aren't against the carrot and stick method of tithing 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christians: The Big Question Even Your Pastor Can't Answer by BabaGnoni: 3:57pm On Jul 25, 2014*. Modified: 6:14pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
alexleo: I was going to give you my own answer until I saw this post of yours. chuxyz: See me see case o! I carry you for mind when i create this topic? Na by force to comment? alexleo: If you were reasonable enough you should ve known that when you throw a question to the public you maintain a balanced view of the contributions that will come in. chuxyz: So you finally showed your gullibility, so you can rest now abi? Now evaporate from here. chuxyz: So you mean God did that on purpose so we all gather here on earth and be tormented by lucifer? alexleo: Can we start with the purpose first? Then we can move to this other one because as i discuss, i learn too. chuxyz: "Yea bros thanks, i quite understand your point. alexleo: Thanks bros. Now coming to the issue of purpose, the purpose of creating man I believe is not for us to be tormented by the devil.From chuxyz's - "bright minds here please fly away", to alexleo's - "Go and learn - hope your foolishness will give way for you to learn - sound more like a tout than what I thought" to chuxyz's - "not as confused as you are - humans think like goat o. Please go polish yourself and come back - might consider managing you as a reader only. Oloshi version 1.0" to alexleo's - "Can we start..." to chuxyz's - "i was nodding while reading this - Nice bro" to alexleo's - "Thanks bros... Let me know your views about this then we can proceed..." https://s29.postimg.org/b3gbf9s6r/popcorn_MJexcite.gif It was exciting reading while it lasted It was a comedy of laughter. From Oloshi, to Nice bro and Thanks bro After the initial hitch, at least una both somehow made up and una don padi. "I have been pondering over this time after time but have got no answers. Even so called pastors will only meander around the question and end up coming out with no answer. Now the question is this: If satan tempted man to sin against God, and we term satan the father of sin, then who tempted satan to also sin or rebel against God? Another Satan? If your answer is NOBODY, that means when we all have been raptured and gone to heaven, wont that same NOBODY tempt man to rebel against God again? And we will all start from square-one again back on earth. Please i need insightful answers only. Thanks." - chuxyz To my friend chuxyz, I sure hope you can handle the truth. I'll cut to the chase and answer curtly as much as I can but will kick off first with this Yoruba adage "Ilu ti oni ofin, kosi ese" Sorry I don't know an Igbo version of it, however literally means "where there is no law, sin doesn't exist" Q/ If satan tempted man to sin against God, and we term satan the father of sin, then who tempted satan to also sin or rebel against God? Another Satan? A/ NOBODY tempted satan to sin or rebel against God. No, not another Satan, there is and will be only one Satan Q/ If your answer is NOBODY, that means when we all have been raptured and gone to heaven, wont that same NOBODY tempt man to rebel against God again? A/ No, that same NOBODY will not tempt man to rebel against God again. (Note I am about answering your preemptive Why) Why? Because that same NOBODY won't be able to as God categorically said death will no longer be (i.e. note that death is the penalty for sin refer to Revelation 21:4 below to see where God promised that death and by proxy sin wont be anymore and refer to Isaiah 55:11 also to know why one can believe and trust God's word on this or anything else for that matter) and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." - Revelation 21:4 New American Standard Bible so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11 Q/ And we will all start from square-one again back on earth. Please i need insightful answers only. Thanks. A/ We will all start from square-one again back on earth where there will no more be sin as answered above. Sin has been clinically and thoroughly dealt with by God at Calvary, however it is allowed to run it's full course as it needs to empty out the whole contents inside it's Pandora box. - by then, all the life in sin would have been sucked out, it won't have legs to stand on, talkless want to rear it's ugly head ever again. You're welcome. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Making of GRACE CONVENTION 2014 by BabaGnoni: 9:27am On Jul 25, 2014 |
Tgirl4real: There are some differences that makes it clear that we serve 2 diff Jesus'."You can’t control everything:Turmoil, conflict, chaos, this is part of life. Look at any playground: The screaming, the laughter, the tears, out of the mayhem comes out relationship and love and the simple joy of being surprised by life." - God, Joan of Arcadia 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by BabaGnoni: 7:53am On Jul 25, 2014 |
Magazine / Issues / Issue 19 / Money in Christian History (II): Christian History Timeline Dates and Events Regarding Money. 197–198 Tertullian explains Christian finances in his Apology: “Even if there is a chest of a sort, it is not made up of money paid in entrance-fees, as if religion were a matter of contract. Every man once a month brings some modest coin —or whenever he wishes, and only if he does wish, and if he can; for nobody is compelled; it is a voluntary offering. You might call them the trust funds of piety. For they are not spent upon banquets nor drinking-parties nor thankless eating-houses; but to feed the poor and to bury them, for boys and girls who lack property and parents, and then for slaves grown old and shipwrecked mariners; and any who may be in mines, islands, or prisons . . . .” . . . 1895 Wesley Chapel in Cincinnati has financial trouble. In desperation, it tries “suppers, festivals, lectures, stereopticon shows, subscriptions, and the whole round of man-made schemes and devices,” according to layman William G. Roberts. Finally, Roberts and others introduce the concept of “storehouse tithing,” which turns the church around. Tithing is revived as a popular practice in U.S. churches. Money in Christian History (II): Christian History Timeline https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/money-in-christian-history-ii-timeline/ 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by BabaGnoni: 9:19pm On Jul 24, 2014*. Modified: 11:18pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: God never said the commanded tithe was to be a free will offering.^^^ Pastors including tithe advocates, don't just add to the Word of God in order to deceive more people into giving away their money under false pretenses, they actually also do twist and change addressees in verse(s) to suit dark and greedy ulterior motives When did He say that? Aye one of those bogeyman verses again pastors use to scare the living daylights out of the church and make her quake in the boots with fear He said it in Malachi 3:9, only it wasn't even about money "Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation" - Mal 3:9 there in the verse, He was referring to the they robbed God, even It is about the Levites, rebuking the Levites for withholding their tithes so thereby not providing for the priests who had no inheritance in the land Pastors have twisted this verse, changed the addressee in the verse, turned the verse around from themselves, diverting and pointing it at the church And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel - Num 18:20 KJV And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation - Num 18:21 KJV Pastors have conveniently refused to properly and correctly teach the church the biblical truth of Malachi 3:9 and whom exactly that verse was addressing or talking about It is OK sha. Diaris God ooo. 5 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 3:40pm On Jul 24, 2014*. Modified: 5:05pm On Aug 13, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit[/size] https://s27.postimg.org/h7eu8f02n/c2_Laughter.jpghttps://s27.postimg.org/dl90vrtpf/c_Haha_Ho_Ho.jpghttps://s27.postimg.org/wrm7yya73/c_Laughter.jpg This is a refreshed disclaimer that this thread was and/or is not set out to malign persons (e.g. Hagin et al) but that the truth is the thread is about " Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents" if it happens that Hagin et al had featured in the past, now or later again subsequent posts on this thread, then it only is and/or was just a matter of citizen journalism and circumstances beyond the thread's control. Contributor such as DrummaBoy have given low level insights on "What is holy laughter?" whilst Trustman too provided an impressive low level list of the different types of behavioral "manifestations" which are displayed, singly (i.e. one at a time) or combined (i.e. more than one at a time) in "holy ghost laughter along with slain in the spirit" sessions Please note that of course, there are loads of others, that had equally taught, received, allowed or taken part in this activity known as the "HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit" doctrine (e.g. Oral Roberts, Paul Crouch of TBN, Kenneth Copeland etc just to name a few) the thread at this juncture is singling Hagin out with this doctrine because of the following: 1) First as a result of his prominent Father of WoF position. 2) Second, from the word go, this doctrine like every other doctrine in WoF, had started with Hagin (i.e. he had been in the forefront of the "HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit" doctrine) along with new-WoF-kid-on-block Howard Rodney-Brown who earlier had got into the action (i.e. as like they mostly do with every other WoF doctrine) brought the doctrine up another notch or level up to the point of ludicrous (e.g. as like was done with name-it... claim it, financial posterity etc doctrines) 3) Lastly, he had prophesied that there will be waves of God's glory never witnessed before sweeping across the country and world at large As regards #3, simple research on Hagin or if one had been following Hagin, one would have noticed that he had previously "prophesied" (i.e. this prophecy he made, is captured on video) about a new wave of anointing that will sweep and move across the country and the world at large. This "Holy Ghost laughter and slain in the spirit" thing is what Hagin declared to be the first filling demonstration of the new spiritual anointing he said God had promised him. Hagin usually starts with quoting scriptures also along the line, in other incidents, he usually gets his music director to sing the "laughing song" repeatedly over and over, to get attendees worked up for the frenzy (i.e. this can be seen done in other videos) The lyrics in the songs are for example: "Laughing, laughing, laughing is so much fun..." etc He also says, when the spirit moves, just jump in, as in, laugh along (i.e. fake the laugh, until to make or start to laugh) You see, Hagin, been an Apostle that he claims he was, had prophesied (i.e. this is captured on video) that God promised Him that a new wave of special anointing will sweep across the country and beyond. Since then, Hagin had been trying to validate this prophecy, with the occasional attempts of laughing in Pastors meetings at his Tulsa base, this is all long before Rodney Howard Brown came on the scene with the "Holy Ghost laughter" when Oral Roberts endorsed it after a Brown performance of it. Though when initially approached to comment on Rodney Howard Brown and this his prevailing "Holy Ghost laughter" anointing (i.e. as Brown was a Rhema graduate & ex Rhema tutor), Hagin's camp then, at first disavowed and distanced themselves from Rodney Howard Brown but then later on, Hagin's validation quest in an ironic manner was inadvertently given a life line (i.e. a means of escape from a difficult situation) by Rodney Howard Brown, after an Oral Roberts' Rodney Howard Brown endorsement (i.e. when Oral Roberts' son invited Rodney Howard Brown to Oral Roberts university campus to preach etc, he came down laughing and endorsed the laughing and Brown in the meeting) The rest is history, and Hagin forged ahead to exploit Rodney Howard Brown's "Holy Ghost laughter", packaged it as doctrine in WoF to be milked, made full use of it and derived benefit from it. Charisma magazine and TBN (i.e. silent WoF shareholders) also helped popularise the "Holy Ghost laughter along with slain in the spirit" doctrine and activity in churches or revivals. Apart from USA, North America (e.g. Toronto blessing), UK (e.g. Steven Hill) and some parts in Australia that got intoxicated with the "Holy Ghost laughter" doctrine, the activity though it got imported to Naija it didn't get a footing in mainstream churches (i.e. the likes of Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Oyakhilome, Adeboye etc churches didn't get influenced by it at all) Like how most things become, the "Holy Ghost laughter along with slain in the spirit" doctrine is more or less a fad now, which is why some might be oblivious of the doctrine, and even some might be unaware that it did touch base in Naija. It might not have touch based in mainstream churches, but it is a fact that attempts were made to introduce it via the youth (i.e. on/through campus fellowships) Interestingly TB Joshua practices "Holy Ghost laughter and slain in the spirit" too albeit in a subtle manner (i.e. it is not a mass hysteria or congregational type) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2V7KbbfRHA For an eye-opening look, watch what seemingly might be a video of the devil behind the scenes laughing self silly, along with Kenneth Hagin (i.e. the father of WoF/"Word of Faith" family), Kenneth Copeland (i.e. the heir to Hagin’s WoF/"Word of Faith" empire) Gloria Copeland (i.e. Kenneth Copeland's wife) Billye Brim (i.e. Co-host with Gloria Copeland on Kenneth Copeland's BVOV TV program, also editor of publications editing Hagin’s teachings into books & the "The Word of Faith" monthly magazine) Rev Keith Moore (i.e. former classroom instructor at Hagin's founded Rhema Bible Training Center & closely affiliated with Kenneth Copeland) Leroy Thompson and wife Carolyn (i.e. of the "Money Cometh To Me, Now" fame, seen in the video, leaning towards Hagin, tapping him for "anointing" though 2 years later, he declined the Hagin's 1999 Tulsa meeting invite and so refused to show up) Ed Dufresne and wife Nancy (i.e. another of Hagin’s copy cats, WoF heavily entrenched and Rhema Bible Training Center stalwart) Mac Hammond and wife Lynne Watch them and others with dead fish like eyes, laugh themselves silly It could be possibly a laugh over people not knowing the difference between the franchised "Word of Faith" and the biblical "word of faith" Watch Hagin flick and waggle tongue, stick tongue out and in, hissing, puffing, spitting like a snake and then do his best impersonation of Michael Jackson "Thriller" laugh Watch them bare teeth, hiss and puff too, and then, like snakes, they slither down seats before laughing themselves silly Notice Kenneth Copeland. He wouldn't be outdone with the laughing (i.e. he just has to, OTT as usual, go overboard with it) but then, watch later on his face, from 4.54 onwards... it gives a lot away, he definitely, is thinking to himself: "What got into me making a fool of myself just then... this is nonsense, Right?" Suspicion: Wonder why the cameramen weren't falling down in stitches with laughter too. This is nothing near the pentecostal experience of Acts 2:1-15, as this definitely looks unforgivably cringe worthy to watch. This family of the "Word of Faith" movement video makes them out as snakes, serpent hybrids writhing on the floor, like brood of vipers! For this reason I will mourn and wail; I will walk around barefoot and without my outer garments. I will howl like a wild dog, and screech like an owl. - Micah 1:8 Net Bible Mourning is the closest anything in the bible that looks or resembles hooting like owls etc like done in "Holy Ghost laughter" and it is only one reference of a likely similar setting, this is found in Micah 1:8 So it is safe to say, it is not biblical, as their isn't anything remotely like or close to a "Holy Ghost laughter" in the bible This laughter thing has been around in the East (e.g. Asia, India etc with Buddhists and Hindus) long before WoF latched on to it "Holy Ghost laughter" is nothing more than just glorified "Laughter yoga" otherwise, it then is something else worse, sinister and darkening, maybe has to do with Kundalini. What? Kundalini? Why Kundalini? Well, because the "Holy Ghost laughter" activities in WoF churches or other revivals have similar peculiarities and/or all the hallmarks of a Kundalini session. - these strange or unusual features do not look anything like coming from the Holy Spirit but does look more like coming from a Kundalini spirit. - a spirit the Buddhists and Hindus earlier mentioned above, will have no problem easily confirming or recognising. Kundalini, (i.e. or Tummo as it is called in Tibet) by the way, means coil and is derived from the Sanskrit word "Kundal". The Bhuddists and Hindus teach that Kundalini, nourishes the tree of life and is coiled up within like a serpent, at the base of the etheric human spine with latent power, ready to spring hence the reason it has also been referred to as "The Serpent Power" https://s30.postimg.org/fqvlw3wjl/kundalini_Bone.gif Serpent power is imparted by the guru, done by laying on of the guru's hands or a single touch to the recipients' head (i.e. Shakti-pat), "Holy Ghost laughter and slain in the spirit" too, is imparted a similar manner: by laying on of hands on people and saying "Be blessed!" it can be imparted also by just walking by a row, and affect the whole people in the row by merely touching the first person in the row, or it can be imparted by handing over microphone to recipients. Both (i.e. "Serpent power" and "Holy Ghost laughter and slain in the spirit'') upon impartation make people either collapse or fall, seemingly under the "spirit's" power some people break out into ecstatic laughter, roaring, twisting about, barking, gyrating, hissing, crying or shaking some could be struck dumb, rendered speechless and unable to talk when asked to Our mouths were full of laughter and our tongues sang aloud for joy. - Psalms 126:2 Spiritual "wine" is what Hagin calls the impartation, backing it up with scripture quoting Psalms 126:2 above. On the stage/pulpit and later on when moving round the auditorium, Hagin will say: "...come and drink, don't wait, just jump in..." this to encourage present attendees to receive the new wave of glory Not much will be further said, at this point about the similarities between Kundalini - "Serpent power" and "Holy Ghost laughter and slain in the spirit" except that, readers do their own research on these two phenomena, to find out whether or not, some form of occult Eastern teachings and techniques were assimilated as church doctrine or activity by WoF. Laughter is strong medicine for the mind and body, as there are mental health, physical health and social benefits of laughter and the following URL: http://www.helpguide.org/life/humor_laughter_health.htm attests to the benefits Laughter even can be a beneficial by-product of a cheerful heart, as can be seen in Proverbs 17:22: A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a broken spirit saps a person's strength. - Proverbs 17:22 NLT So in light of this, laughter is not getting knocked, ridiculed and/or dismissed, but what is worrisome, is the sheer dishonesty, deceit, falsehood and energy put behind portraying the "Holy Ghost and slain in the spirit" doctrine or activities for what it is not It beggars belief, why masquerade a phenomenon provided by the kingdom of darkness, as a new wave of special anointing sweeping across the country and beyond. Was it done out of desperation, egocentric or what? On closing, the bible clearly in Galatians 5:22-23 states what the fruits of the spirit are, (i.e. they are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control) holy ghost laughter or uncontrollable laughter unsurprisingly is no where on the list. If not Kundalini, then call it what it is: call it glorified laughter yoga, - an exercise done in groups, involving prolonged voluntary laughter, and where feigned/forced laughter soon turns into real and contagious laughter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPMOjI_KVmk Rodney Howard-Browne with Benny Hinn teaching how to Holy Laughter Make sure that the light you think you have is not actually darkness. - Luke 11:35 NLT [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit[/size] I REST MY CASE ON F7, FOR NOW. 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 12:22am On Jul 24, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Ok o...This man sha, this bro sha. When God says I chose you (i.e. John 3:16) it means as we've been deliberating so far and all along on the thread that God decided to solve the original problem along with man & his world God choose you, me and everyone to be saved You, I & everyone else did not choose to be saved (i.e. that prerogative is God's) He knows what your, mine & everyone's choice will be and so honors them at each particular point in time God choose you, I & everyone to be saved, but He will respect your, my or everyone's else wish or will, if you, I or everyone else rejects, declines or passes on the offer of salvation It's a no-brainer, one doesn't need to piggyback on John Calvin to understand it |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 11:51pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
Image123: You guys would make terrible housemates, lol. Back, back, forth, forth and Back. shdemidemi: Lol.. That got me laughing...Don't mind my bro jaare, instead of him to come straight out with this JC predestination malarkey which we've all sniffed off him whilst he was a mile away he still wanted it ferreted out of him, and ferreted out with difficulties He is a work and a half You're better off jettisoning this JC version of predestination to know God and your theology yourself For God is Spirit, and so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth https://s27.postimg.org/k95l0ihtv/freewill_Predestination.jpg I'll leave you with the above message to get the meaning foreknowledge and predestination right so you'll stop putting the cart before the horse again 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 10:25pm On Jul 23, 2014*. Modified: 10:52pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Patience friend, there is no rush...https://s29.postimg.org/swyv8x2bb/Predestined_Romans8_29.jpg Facepalm. Duh! Why didn't I see that. Pftt. SMH. Would you believe it, Judas is one smart alec you know - Judas, oh sneaky, sneaky Judas, he was in the faith all along (i.e. he never, not even for once, or anytime lost the faith) Judas is a hero! Judas is a saint afterall I suppose we all now have to rephrase it as: Thank God for Judas |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 10:02pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: No, they all fell in different ways... Moreover killing oneself isn't recorded to be a sin without forgiveness.Look my friend, spare me these trivialities I have given you verses where Jesus said, it would have been better if Judas wasn't born but you want to preach another Gospel or Good News and owe your salvation to Judas instead of appropriately to God I have informed you that you're putting the cart before the horse, that you are muddling events and things up (e.g. foreknowledge and predestination etc etc) Even the Sandherin wouldn't put the money Judas threw back into the Temple treasury - they called it blood money Just go straight to your point will you, what's your point, what points are you racking up? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 9:38pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Peter did an evil act, did he become a villain in God's eye?Did Peter, the man who got excommunicated or the Corinth church illegally kill himself or themselves? So, what's your point, what points are you racking up? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 9:24pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: My friend, you quoted where Paul admonish on how they should act as saints and what is expected....OK, you caught me... Is this what you want to hear: a saint is part of the body of Christ a villain has done some evil act |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 9:03pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: I asked the question for a reason bro...I've given you verses as you asked about a saint and a villain. What more do you need or want bro OK what's a saint and villain to you from God's perspective then bro? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 8:46pm On Jul 23, 2014*. Modified: 9:03pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Does God predestine anything asides from foreknowing a thing?There is a lot of let-there-be and it-was-so predestinations Also let-us-make-man-in-our-image is another example of predestination bro The responses with the black BOLDs are suffice as the verses are self explanatory bro |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 8:34pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Mr Gnoni.. Was God involved when Esau sold his birth right to Jacob - predestination or flukeStop using predestination! That's your stumbling block I'll rewrite that properly like this and answer back: Q/ Mr Gnoni.. Was God involved when Esau sold his birth right to Jacob - Foreknowledge or fluke A/ Foreknowledge (i.e. God had foreknowledge of Esau's plan to sell his birth right to Jacob and so played along, remember which is why He informed Rebekah in Genesis 25:23 that the elder will serve the younger) Q/ Who is a saint and who is a villain by God's standard according to scriptures? A/ For saint: But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks - Ephesians 5:3-4 A/ For villain : A troublemaker and a villain, who goes about with a corrupt mouth - Proverbs 6:12 NIV |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 8:23pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Simon is also called Peter.Let me quickly answer this first, I'll come back to your previous post before this I intimated earlier that you are performing an eisegesis instead of an exegesis, but you disagreed It is Bible 101 that Simon means reed, as in wavering reed in Hebrew (i.e. his carnal nature and name) until God like He did with Abram, Sarai, Jacob etc changed his name to Peter meaning rock, be solid (i.e. his spiritual nature and name) The church was built on the revelation he spoke (i.e. that word is like a foundation rock) in front of Jesus and speech at Antioch |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 7:52pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Judas betrays Jesus to the Jews but did not know He was going to die;God had not planned anything for anyone Judas actions fell into God's plan of things (i.e. prophecy from Gen 3:15) Bro, you don't half crack me up here Listen to yourself bro, can't you see how you are jumbling things up Drop the clichés, there so oversused watch this: If Jesus couldn't kill Himself, as it is illegal for Jesus to kill Himself, if John didn't kill himself, or are you saying John the Baptist killed himself, what makes you think Judas is allowed to kill himself, and killing himself illegally for that matter too. Hmm? Why all these pulling wool over eyes now bro. Why?, why? Ah. SMH. Whether or not Judas carried out to the letter God’s plan, is irrelevant here bro and this is because of Gen 3:15 and Isaiah 55:11 "...JUDAS means one who is to be praised..." - shdemidemi Yeah it means praise - It actually is a JUDAH variation That however is, a clutch at a straw classic there, if you can spot one. I knew you had the "...JUDAS means one who is to be praised..." card too hidden up your sleeve and would be using it sooner if not later but alas you've proved me right, you've just did Might as well find out what Iscariot means or I'll help out, its "outsider" The whole epic is about the original plan of a thorough & complete solution over a problem that existed prior to Eden, Adam & Eve and from what Gen 3:15 got generated from. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 7:52pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: I understand you are skilled in word gymnastics, hence this tete a tete can last for however long you want it to.How many more cards do you have under your sleeve, that you're yet to use? Translation card has gone, gymnastics gone too, what's going to be the next one? I tire for you ooo sha for this one bro. because you're just rehashing what I've previously said about God and that the plan goes on (i.e. https://www.nairaland.com/1820451/judas-iscariot-really-villain/3#24892107) Did you hear or read anywhere on this thread, anyone saying God made a mistake in choosing any person(s)? Eh? Cant you see it? Cant you see God coming in through all these events God is coming in, coming in because He has foreknowledge of what each individual will decide to do at each particular time or moment. God had started coming in right from Eden until when He touch landed on that winter early hours in Bethlehem It is foreknowledge, it is not that God predestined anyone's action(s) or any event in advance to happen. God does not determine your choice or the outcome of your action in advance for you or anyone. God goes with the flow. He can handle whatever choice you make or whatever action you take. God might have to take the Israelite route because of it, but He will get to His expected end and accomplish that which He please. Ordinary and straightforward answers to the following, you no gree: Was Judas really programmed to behave so from the word go or not? Did a love of money, which is the root of all evil, lead Judas to betraying Jesus or not? Was Judas', the character in question, actions or motives evil albeit also important to the events that unfolds? Did Judas have a choice or free will in the whole matter at all or not? Did Judas have an ulterior motive for betraying Jesus apart from the incentive or lure of those 30 pieces of silver or not? Was Judas expecting something extraordinaire to happen at Jesus' arrest and/or trial? Did events not turn out the way Judas had expected or anticipated? Was Judas' action villainous or saintly? Is Judas really a villain, saint or is he both? (i.e. villain and saint) |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 3:12pm On Jul 23, 2014*. Modified: 4:23pm On Jul 23, 2014 |
shdemidemi: I really don't get your fixation on boxing the issue on Judas and judas alone..Don't personalise the thread with me bro, saying "I really don't get your fixation on boxing the issue on Judas and judas alone..." - there you go again, having a go at me. This thread is about Judas and villainy, the thread isn't about how God interprets what Judas did and how God will judge him. You can open up a new thread for that, if that is what you want to harp on about Which part of the analogy of the bird does not fit into God's gift of salvation? Hmm? Did God take back the bird in the cage's gift-ability of flying? No, I've answered for you Is the grace, albeit now useless, still not with the bird in the cage? Yes, I've answered that one too for you "God sees man as what they are, He says our minds are evil and desperately wicked. Jesus called mankind evil. Paul says none of us is good." - shdemidemi Please spare us the above prosaic. Tell us something else we don't know. Like something we don't already know please. "Judas is not different from peter or Paul or you... we are all sinners saved by God's mercy and not by how much we love money or how we betray people around us." - shdemidemi Who is talking about how much one loves or not loves money here? Who is talking about how one betrays or doesn't betrays people around one? The thread asked: "Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain?" and ended with this sentence: "The reason is that he was programmed to behave so from the word go." You ought to have had responses to the likes of: Was Judas really programmed to behave so from the word go or not? Did a love of money, which is the root of all evil, lead Judas to betraying Jesus or not? Was Judas', the character in question, actions or motives evil albeit also important to the events that unfolds? Did Judas have a choice or free will in the whole matter at all or not? Did Judas have an ulterior motive for betraying Jesus apart from the incentive or lure of those 30 pieces of silver or not? Was Judas expecting something extraordinaire to happen at Jesus' arrest and/or trial? Did events not turn out the way Judas had expected or anticipated? Was Judas' action villainous or saintly? Is Judas really a villain, saint or is he both? (i.e. villain and saint) |
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