₦airaland Forum

AlfaSelltzer: BabaGnoni... you should do well and avoid me.

AlfaSelltzer: Hmm... people who fight tithes have one thing in common... busy body on things others have decided to do.

Image, thank you jare

Alfa Seltzer: Re: Thank You Satan:
This another hallucination in the head of xtians.
Everybody claiming things without proof.
Show me where I opened any thread claiming I'm a xtian.
And don't come back with your "bible said this or that".
I need concrete proof
https://www.nairaland.com/1789129/thank-satan/1#24324039

DrummaBoy: Thank you sir.

Awaiting BabaGnoni.

shdemidemi: This much hogwash in one single thread!

This image sef

Image123: See how Gnoni clearly contradicts himself, twisting and turning like Ronaldinho to the cheers of his gullible fans?
In lie 14 which he told earlier, he had said "In fact, one is not even allowed to tithe, not any
more, period." i hope he doesn't dribble further, this is not a game and God does not have short memory.

frosbel: .

Elantracey: hmmmmmmmmmm

remsonik: I pity all the people that will say malachi 3:8-10 was for the old testament and not tithe. Hell is real. Heaven is real!!!

Image123: [size=5pt]
It was Goshen360 that said "half truth is as good as speaking lies." i think i'm going to have to agree with him. When Gnoni posted on F8, i raised the flag on contorted lies and well crafted lies being on display. i sounded that as a general warning to the unsuspecting. But what followed was a plea/force for me to show the dangers/lies. Well, here we are. Of course some of what Gnoni posted are true, that's what makes it 'half truth' like Goshen said. Some truth and some lies, which i'm told is as good as speaking lies. Without further delay, i go to pointing out the lies i can see at first glance, and perhaps answer some questions YET AGAIN(which i've not being interested in answering recently because the same suspects keep asking the same things, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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1. LIE NUMBER ONE[/size]
[size=5pt]One has to be omniscient to say the above as a matter of fact or without a shadow of doubt. We need to say the truth accurately. 2+2=4, it is not 4.1 or 4.003, neither is it 22 or -4. IF we say IT IS NOT RECORDED in the Bible that Abram and Jacob tithed any more after these first and second tithe incidents in the bible, very fine, accurate and correct. But to deceive us and say "Both Abram and Jacob did not tithe any more", that is a lie, it is unconfirmed.
For instance, Abraham was recorded as offering a burnt offering just ONCE in the Bible i.e the time of Jehovah Jireh incident. It would be foolhardy of anyone to state that Abraham only offered burnt offering once in his life because it is only recorded once. Or to say that Paul did not have his bath since scripture does not record that he did. That is the line of reasoning and assumption employed here. Do i expect these same suspects to ignore the above and still go and repeat this lie another time? i hope not.

Here is Gnoni making a case for the possibility of voluntary tithes and he was applauded. Anytime a tithe giver makes such case, the same suspects come up with complaints asking how it is possible for tithes to be voluntary or simply refuse to see what we have said tying all tithe teaching and practice to compulsion. Hypocrites.

2. LIE NUMBER TWO
[size=5pt]There was no further replacement after the firstborns. There was no original plan with the Levites REPLACED.
Num 3:9 And thou shalt give the Levites unto Aaron and to his sons: they are wholly given unto him out of the children of Israel.

Aaron and his sons(the Aaronic priesthood) got in the same time with the levites. In fact, the Bible refers to them as the LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD.

This is great and truth. Check out how lie 3 follows it closely.

3. LIE NUMBER THREE
[size=5pt]There is no such term as 'biblical tithing' or 'monetary tithing'. The Bible makes no such demarcations or segregations. This beautiful nonsense is a product of vain imaginations and theologists who hope to confuse the unsuspecting. From Genesis to the end of the Bible, tithe is tithe, simply a tenth, 1/10 of anything or something. Hebrews, Matthew and Luke simply speak of tithes as tithes or a tenth. They don't talk about some biblical tithe or what not.

4. LIE NUMBER FOUR
[size=5pt]The term 'biblical tithing'is beautiful nonsense. Tithe is simply 1/10. The Bible says nothing about some biblical tithing. Please note how the definition given disqualifies Abraham's tithe as biblical. Imagine that, Abraham's tithe is not biblical tithe. These fellows are going to guilt trip you and say that what you give is not biblical tithe and therefore not acceptable

5. LIE NUMBER FIVE
[size=5pt]Notice how the BIBLICAL tithe facade is conveniently lifted. The casual reader is fed the understanding of WHO TITHED(as in general), not who tithed the so called BIBLICAL TITHE.

Num 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up a heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

ALL PRIESTS were levites, and the levites were to offer a tenth to God, giving it to the HIGH priest. If a teacher says every student should pay 200naira to the course rep or class captain, that does not automatically absolve the course rep of his own duty, does it?

For once, i thought they would finally produce the Bible passage that said this. Unfortunately, they pulled it out of thin air or their imagination. Everybody knows that the Bible times were an agrarian society. Their main source of income was agric based dominated. One could easily be butchers, bakers, stone and brick masons, artificers of brass, lawyers, judges, soldiers, tentmakers, sellers of expensive cloths, etc and still tithe. We all know that scribes and pharisees tithed, Jesus Himself said so. The scribes are the intelligent, literate and educated class of society. Same thing with the high and ruling class pharisees. These people still tithed. So what excuse has the lower class. Potiphar for instance shows how a soldier can still have fields.
Gen 39:1 And Joseph was brought down to Egypt; and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, captain of the guard, an Egyptian, bought him of the hands of the Ishmaelites, which had brought him down thither.
Gen 39:4 And Joseph found grace in his sight, and he served him: and he made him overseer over his house, and all that he had he put into his hand.
Gen 39:5 And it came to pass from the time that he had made him overseer in his house, and over all that he had, that the LORD blessed the Egyptian's house for Joseph's sake; and the blessing of the LORD was upon all that he had in the house, and in the field.

Potiphar had field even as an officer. The economy was agrarian even in Egypt. Famine crashed their economies faster than anything. Meat was what life was basically about for the average person. It is not rocket science, even in rural areas today, it can be observed. There are medical personnel, teachers, government workers etc that still do farming work. In those days, it was more pronounced, life was all about meat for them. Scriptures had to warn them that life was not to be all about meat(Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? ), in a similar sense today we are warned that life is not all about 'money'. That was their wealth, their blessing, their life, their treasure. Treasure is not just silver and diamonds. The rich fool(Luke12)'s treasure was his barns. Today, the average man's treasure and wealth has evidently changed. Its all about the 'money' as it were.
Luk 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

There remains absolutely nothing wrong in paying tithes of what an individual or society is rich in. Both tithes and offerings, agric produce and non agric produce were found in the storehouse. It was never rejected. There is no God's unholy tithes anywhere. ALL the tithes are holy, from Genesis 1 till date. It is the temple/altar that sanctifies the gift, it is not antitithers that sanctify the gift or money. It is God.

There you have it. Abraham and Jacob's tithe was not biblical!! Does that even make any sense?

6. LIE NUMBER SIX
[size=5pt]This is word jangling that the Bible advices us to avoid. The same action of tithing was referred to as both paid and give in the Bible. This has being explained to many here before.
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Abraham's tithe which is said to be once is referred to as PAID and GIVEN.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.

The tithes given at the temple is referred to as PAID or GIVEN.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

7. LIE NUMBER SEVEN
[size=5pt]Tithing is not an ordinance written against you, it is for your own good.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
If i also pick this one scripture as you have done above out of context, then there is confusion and contradiction.

The Bible teaches otherwise. The Bible teaches that ALL SCRIPTURE is divinely inspired and profitable, and that WHATSOEVER things were written aforetime have something to teach us, they are SURELY, NO DOUBT, written for our sakes.
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

8. LIE NUMBER EIGHT
[size=5pt]Yet another half truth. There was no levite when Abraham and Jacob gave tithe or said to tithe. Tithe does not have to be given to levites only. By the way, we are not under the levitical priesthood but under Jesus, who is a priest after the order of Melchisedek. Melchisedek received tithes.
Abraham paid valid tithes before anything called Israel, and Melchisedek received tithes asides the Levites, the widows, the fatherless and the strangers. There is no scripture yet written that says that one has to live in the land of Israel to tithe, it is simply a figment of theologists' imaginations. There is a royal priesthood after the order of Melchisedec in place today BTW. Nothing stops them from receiving the tithe if Melchisedec did.

Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

The tithe was not just given randomly or by lotto. It was for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. The question now is, IS THERE STILL SERVICE IN THE HOUSE OF GOD OR CHURCH TODAY? Because that is the PURPOSE for the tithe, that there may be meat in God's house. That purpose still exists and can be met using the same principle. That is as common sense as it gets. Tithes and offerings can be used to provide for the service of God's house, the church.
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

9. LIE NUMBER NINE
[size=5pt]Of course, the gullible is expected to assume that tithe definition ends in the warped biblical tithe definition earlier given by Gnoni. Tithes was given at the temple at Jerusalem but mostly at storehouses in designated Levitical cities, it is that simple and basic. All the twists added are unnecessary.
Neh 13:12 Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

i'd point out other lies later on, kindly ruminate on this. Let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath. [/size]

maestroferddi: Can I reasonable assume you are not Sarassin?

maestroferddi: The handle/moniker is of peripheral importance here,
in any case. I have however situated the trajectory of his argument/thesis so that there should be nothing hazy, as it were...

maestroferddi: I am afraid you are not getting it right here.
A little research would unmask the fact that most of the submissions @sarassin is making here
are blatant regurgitations of Islamic textual criticism of the bible which ironically is the very pedestal they need to authenticate their creed.
His moniker alone gives him away...quite easily.

maestroferddi: We really need to cut Apostle Paul some slack.
In paganism just like other religions, there abound some moral truths.
The question then is whether we expect Apostle Paul and other christian leaders/writers to stand the truth on its head just
because a particular religion was the first to make a particular assertion or statement of truth.

maestroferddi: Your Islamic/Ebionitic/judaisaic shallow fabrications and weak textual analysis are so easy to detect. I will call you out in due course as I go through the comments.

maestroferddi: There was no way my hunches would have failed me here! At last you have come out of the closet to get your Islamic theology some badly needed authentication by stooping to an apocryphal writing. One would have expected that you, for the look of it, should have known better than to build an argument on an apocryphal narrative.

maestroferddi: My Muslim friend, this malaria induced tale you are trying to concoct or quote is at variance with biblical accounts and established history. You are still catching at the straws of badly woven apocryphal narratives. Such a pathetic spectacle...

maestroferddi: I would rather you desist from transposing Islamic jurispundence on Christianity. Please take out time to read the book of the Acts of the Apostle with the progression of Paul from being a persecutor to his conversion. Pay special attention to his integration with the apostle/disciples so as to avoid the crass inaccuracies you are spreading. The council in Jerusalem was principally convened to smoothen out doctrinal questions.

omonuan: Many apostles did not believe Paul's Teachings.

In Acts 9:26, it says "But when Saul had come to Jerusalem he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him and did not believe that he was a disciple". Oh and then in Acts 15:12-13 the apostle James attended one of Paul's blasphemous sermons, simply because the Lord wanted him to see what a liar Paul was.

It reads, "The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me."

Notice how James says, "Brothers, listen to me". James was trying to tell them something Simon (another true apostle) said, because James knew what a liar Paul and Barnabas were, he was telling the crowds to listen to him and not Paul and Barnabas.He went on to discredit Paul's Teachings including the doctrine that the law has been abolished.

James 2:14-26 called the author of the doctrine of the fact (which is Paul) that we are saved by faith only “o vain man” in v.20?

2nd Peter 3:15-16 affirms that Paul's writings are confusing, then why did the Holy Spirit write confusing things through Paul? How is this compatible with Paul's own teaching that God is not the author of Confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33

Paul claimed to have encountered Jesus in the desert on the road to Damascus.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:26 that when someone claims to see him in the desert we shouldn't believe him.
Should we take the advice of Jesus or should we believe Paul?

Paul in Galatians 1 emphasizes his knowledge comes directly from Jesus and not from man.

Jesus says in Matthew 24:26 if someone claims to see him in the secret chambers,
we should not believe him. Who was telling the truth Paul or Christ?

omonuan: You are just going in circles.
You have provided no proof that Jesus was named Immanuel despite your futile attempts to argue that he was the messiah and thus Immanuel. You are using smoke and mirrors.

According to you, Mathew said:"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel."
However, this is not a proof that Jesus was named Immanuel.
Moreover, you clearly mentioned that Mathew 1:22 said the son has to be named "Jesus" not Immanuel.

You have continuously failed to show that Immanuel was ever the name given to Jesus.

What name was given to Christ at birth?
Mathew contradicted himself just two verses later at 1:25 and said that Joseph gave the son the name "Jesus"
thereby rendering you and Mathew's assertion that he was to be named Immanuel null and void:

" But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus." Mathew 1:25

Wherefore, Jesus was not named Immanuel supporting my argument.
I had never disputed that Mathew made such assertion that Messiah would be called Immanuel.
What I have maintained is that Jesus was never called Immanuel in the Bible therefore his birth could not have fulfilled Isaiah 7:14.

Other than Matthew's overreach in trying to retrofit a prophesy, Jesus was never called Immanuel in the Bible. Take it or leave it!

Your bringing in other quotes from Isaiah 9:1 are just as futile because they provide no evidence that Jesus was ever called Immanuel.
This is the main issue.

I am done with this argument. I leave you with the following as a lesson:

2 Timothy 3:16:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"

Hopefully, you learned a few lessons here. Goodbye!

Macelliot: You are entitled to you own opinion!
No more Fruitless arguement.... What has happen has happened....
The End will justify the Means......
Have a nice day. Bye!

Rilwayne001: After when you don derail the thread

Anyway the analysis is will be updated very soon

PastorAIO: In the letter to Titus Paul quotes a very interesting phrase made by the greek philosopher Epimenides.
Why did he quote it?

10For there are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision, 11whose mouths must be stopped; men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. 13This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. Titus Shaptar 1

That phrase all 'Cretans are liars' is known as Epimenides paradox. It is said by a Cretan. So if all Cretans are liars then the person who said it must be lying. So is the phrase True or not. If it's true then it's not true. Paul says it's true.

If you read that passage as a mere paradoxical joke then you might miss something else that Paul might be hinting at.

You see that phrase comes from a poem that is actually referring to the death and resurrection of the Greek God Zeus. Certain people from Crete denied that Zeus resurrected and in protest the poet called them all Liars.

They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.
— Epimenides, Cretica


O Zeus, some say that thou wert born on the hills of Ida;
Others, O Zeus, say in Arcadia;
Did these or those, O Father lie? -- “Cretans are ever liars.”
Yea, a tomb, O Lord, for thee the Cretans builded;
But thou didst not die, for thou art for ever.
— Callimachus, Hymn I to Zeus

There are a lot of things that Paul says that would make sense automatically to a greek pagan. He quotes them a lot.

The question for me is whether the teachings are of any spiritual value. I say that they are, so therefore I am less prepared to dismiss Paul's teachings as falsehoods. However I would agree that there little continuity between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught.

I hope I've been able to make a worthwhile contribution to this thread.

PastorAIO: Thank you, o ja re

Sarassin: I don't think it is fair to accuse the poster of a lack of understanding, he has after-all made a number of salient points,
also we could all benefit from a persuasive rebuttal.

Perhaps one of the biggest problems in defending Paul is the fact that the best witness for Paul is ...
Paul himself, so any response you give is going to be enormously subjective
because of Paul's inherent need to present himself in a particular light

whatofyou: You win;
and the pastor gets to carry out his new directive.
Furthermore, I listened to myself and still found out you don't want to accept...
Have a wonderful day!

whatofyou: It has not reached to the extent of zebra calling donkey horse!
Sometimes we may think we are swimming in the water when we are actually drowning.
Take the pastor, for example. This new restriction was not with his church in the beginning.
His eyes suddenly got 'opened.' Like my guy says, the pastor has started finding his moment of truth.

whatofyou: I believe you do not want to understand my previous post.

Many are called, few are chosen; 'many have come, few are chosen.'
Not everyone who calls himself a christian is really a christian.
Remember the 'narrow' road and the spirit leading the times we are in.
Forget about the world the world going upside down, there are qualities christians should display.

whatofyou: By their fruits, you shall know them.
Our Lord says He does not tempt people -- that is, in every meaning of the word tempt.
This should lead you to know that acts of temptation should not emerge from wherever godly people are,
because the Lord is in us, be it in the church, school, house, place of work et c.
But since God has spoken of His not being responsible for our temptations,
does it mean that christians are not tempted, and who tempts them?
Christians should not tempt themselves!

shdemidemi: The Sadducees and the Pharisee religious parties differed in doctrine.
They became united as comrade against the same course- Jesus and Christianity.

nora544: it is not the man in the church but I feel the pastor has a problem,
perhaps he cannot preach when he has to look at the girls and the mini skirt and the hight heels!!!!!!!!!!!

nora544: When you didnot know what business outfit is please look
https://www.google.at/search?q=business+outfit+women&client=firefox-a&hs=AFH&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=EVDZU8zkMa3P4QTl1YFg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=583

and that is a dress this so called man of God didnot like.

Nigeria have more problems but this so called great man of god had no brain to speak out the real problems!!!!!!!!

tobiflink: Wear bikini go church now, shebi na heart God dey look at.

Debroslink: Are u a Christian at all?
So because miniskirts are common in the society means that it should be approved in the church?
U agree that it is unholy, yet you are approving it in d church? Is that how to prepare for heaven?
When u come to the house of the Lord, you come to cleanse and amend your ways, not to encourage temptations.

In fact I doubt your salvation.

chyseth: My dear, Pastor did not say, the person should not come to church,
but that the ushers will help you cover up properly. that means a form of clothing like a wrapper will be provided to you to cover up with.

That is totally different from your line of reasoning.

When i have time to talk about our bodies being the temple of the Lord, i will let you know.

Take care.